@ pilgrim

no one ascribes what belongs to God to our mother Mary!!
matter of fact we honour Mary for being an exemplary woman just like we honour so many other pple who are lived an exemplary life.

have you ever heard of Holy Mass, Stations of the Cross, Holy Hour, Benediction, . . .  . ? ? ?
to mention just a few!
you dont get hear the name of our Mother being mentioned

Christ our Redeemer and Saviour remains our focus point

the only problem here is that you single out our mother Mary because you dont feel she deserves the kind of respect she gets world over.

i ask her to pray for me because i strongly believe that she will happily do so for me!

i have also noticed that you have this feeling that we Catholics are reluctant to defend our faith. .  . .
now lemme clear that up;   i will never be ashamed anywhere or any time  of what has given me the utmost satisfaction in life
what has made me the best person i can ever be
and what has given me the strong foundation that can cannot be shaken
i dont go fighting pple for what there believe in rather i kneel down and pray for those pple
what do u think has been the bedrock of religious crisis ?. . . .  fanaticism!

10 different pple will give you ten different definitions of a particular verse of the same Bible!!!
lets take the case off Catholics for a while, the Pentecostals tell you that this is wrong and should not be
while another tells u d opposite!
we make Christianity so ambigiuos and forget the most important of all things: the individual & Love
some pple take years to study the Bible just to be able to ARGUE abt it!
it dosnt in any way reflect in their way of life.



now why should i fight or get into pointless argument as is customary in this section of Nairaland when i have the most potent of all weapons: Prayer!

i certainly dnt knw about you but arguments hardly solve issue or open doors ( hearts in this case)
but Prayers do for ME!

so i will continue to pray for you to some day come to honour this great woman called Mary it is said that all the world shall call her BLESSED

It is usual with those who are not Catholics to fancy that the honours we pay to our blessed Mother interfere with the supreme worship which we pay to Jesus; that in Catholic teaching she eclipses Him. But this is the very reverse of the truth.

For if Mary's glory is so very great, how cannot His be greater still who is the Lord and God of Mary? He is infinitely above His Mother; and all that grace which filled her is but the overflowings and superfluities of His incomprehensible Sanctity. And history teaches us the same lesson.

Look at the Protestant countries which threw off all devotion to her centuries ago, under the notion that to put her from their thoughts would be exalting the praises of her Son. Has that consequence really followed from their profane conduct towards her?

Just the reverse -- the countries, Germany, Switzerland, England, which so acted, have in great measure ceased to worship Him, and have given up their belief in His Divinity. In fact in Germany, it is customary to see 'God's Obituary' etched on walls and public places.

While the Catholic Church, wherever she is to be found, adores Christ, as true God and true Man, as firmly as ever she did.

@soldee,

soldee:

@ Pilgrim,
the Breath of the Father is the Holy Spirit, the same Holy Spirit that came upon our blessed Mother, with whom she 'conceived' of our Lord Jesus. She is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit.

I know who the "Breath of the Father" is; but would you be alive when the Vatican emerges to ascribe that title to Mary as well? This is how the Catholic Church gradually took the divine titles of God ascribed them to Mary - and none of you up until now have had anything to say in defence of that baneful practice. Rather, Catholics have continued to repeated post and celebrate the same heresies of ascribing God's divine titles to Mary.

soldee:

@ cgift,
Note the above, that 'conception' is a result of 'co-operation' between two entities. In conceiving Jesus, it was 'co-operation' between the Holy Spirit and our blessed Mary. Our Mother said 'YES' and she was conceived of the Holy Spirit. What Divine Relationship!

That does not make Mary the 'Mother of God' nor the 'Mother of the Church'. Instead of reposting the same traditions which you have learnt by rote, could we read you present your answers from God's WORD? Christians are in a 'divine relationship' with Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit, I hope you remember that?

Shalom.

@soldee,

viee:

@ pilgrim

no one ascribes what belongs to God to our mother Mary!!
matter of fact we honour Mary for being an exemplary woman just like we honour so many other people who are lived an exemplary life.

Yeah right! No one ascribes what belongs to God to Mary - and yet you haven't provided answers to the three examples I offered. Could you please let us know what the Catholic Church means by ascribing these divine titles of God to Mary -

* the "Glory of Israel"
* the "Morning Star"
* the "Helper of the Redeemed" (of "Helper of Christians"

Please revisit the link: (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-75506.416.html#msg1525511)

Simply denying it and saying such is not the case, while not providing answers instead, does not help resolve the centuries old misconceptions of Catholicism in this regard. That was how much earlier many Catholics on this Forum tried to repeatedly deny that Catholics "pary to" Mary - until after the hard facts were presented to them, none of you now dares shlepp on that assertive denial. Now again, it is obvious that the Catholic Church regards Mary as "SAVIOR" of the people of Rome - and no Catholic had denied it, because the fact was presented before any attempt to deny such. The question still remains unanswered as to WHY the Catholic Bishops have called Mary "Savior" - nor have you even attempted an explanation thereto.

Please try not denying obvious duplicity from the Vatican. I do not mean this disrespectfully towards your person; but I woulnd't like to read you trying to deny what everyone already knows as hard fact!

Glory to Jesus

Honour to Mary

@viee,

viee:

Christ our Redeemer and Saviour remains our focus point

Bless your heart for that confession. And by extension, you have effectively denied the fallacies of the Roman Catholic Popes who have repeatedly through the centuries presented Mary as the focal point of the Catholic faith. While the Bible says that we should be "looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" (Heb. 12:2), the Roman Catholic Popes and Bishops have re-iterated their assertions that Roman Catholics "look unto Mary" instead!

Would you also deny that Pope John Paul II made that assertion - as I'd already shared much earlier? And what about the statement of Pope Leo XIII who asserted that it has ALWAYS been the practice of Roman Catholics to put ALL their hopes and trust in Mary? Of course, there are even more shocking statements of Mariolatry made by the Popes of the Catholic Church down through the centuries - which no succeeding Pope has ever tried to deny! I've held on up until now not to post them so that you dear friends would have the grace of heart to be honest and not further damage your faith.

There's really no point in trying to deny what we all know - and that is: Catholics make Mary the focal point of their devotions and worship. Period.

@viee,

viee:

the only problem here is that you single out our mother Mary because you don't feel she deserves the kind of respect she gets world over.

What kind of "respect" are you talking about, dear viee? I don't see how you may want to think I have "disrespected" Mary in any way. The one thing we have been engaging here is that Mary is NOT deity - and the Roman Catholic practice of praying to Mary is making her into deity! This is why I have severally asked Catholics to explain the meaning of their "honouring" Mary - but up until now, nothing has been said, and nothing will ever be said that could soundly address that issue. It is clear that when the Vatican teaches Roman Catholics everywhere to put all their hopes and trust in Mary, as well as take the divine titles of God and ascribe them to her, they are not "respecting" her - nor are they "respecting" God; more than anything, the Vatican is effectively encouraging idolatry by making Mary her focal point of devotion and worship.

Forget the Roman Catholic denials that have trawled the Forum - they've all been debunked effective for what they are: obvious DENIALS of the fact that Catholics do these things. The Catholic Church has not as yet effectively denied the fact that they pray to Mary as Christians would pray to God - and you need to remember the statement of Pope Leo XIII.

@ pilgrim

i think you hear precisly whet you what to hear. .  .
that is just the main problem here

no Pope will ever say that our Mother Mary is the focal point of the Catholic Faith!!!!!
JESUS!!!!

why then do we go to Mass daily?
why do we place so much empahsis on the body and blood of CHRIST??

someone makes a statement and u just go ahead and pick what you feel is wrong with the statement without putting into the context of the entire statement!!!!!!


she is also my hope because i know that she will pray for every second!!!



Glory of Isreal??
Dear Lord, wher did u get that?

Morning star?

whats wrong with that??

Helper of Christian?
YES!. . .  she helps me by constantly praying for me!




you actually know so little of what we do, any u base your arguement sadly on this

@ Pilgrim, u say "There's really no point in trying to deny what we all know - and that is: Catholics make Mary the focal point of their devotions and worship. Period."

We Honour, not Worship Mary. And WHO does Mary lead us to EVERYTIME??

  JESUS

Proudly Catholic!!
Catholic for Life!!!!
Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary!!!

@viee,

viee:

i have also noticed that you have this feeling that we Catholics are reluctant to defend our faith. .  . .
now let me clear that up;   i will never be ashamed anywhere or any time  of what has given me the utmost satisfaction in life
what has made me the best person i can ever be

How does that sound like you have "defended" the otiose Roman Catholic fallacies and heresies being examined here? The one thing you have simply done is look the other way and expressed the same weak excuses that have become the RCC tradition of circumventing issues and offering personal sentiments instead.

I really don't have any problems in anyone's personal sentiments in RCC heresies as having given them "the utmost satisfaction in life". . . hehe . Actaully, a lot of people have derived even more satisfaction in the most mind-boggling heresies to have been hatched under the sun. It also should go down well as a reminder that the Vatican derived "the utmost satisfaction in life" for branding one of their Popes as "anathema" (accursed) - as posted earlier: "Heretic of the Day".

Glory to Jesus

Honour to Mary    

Pilgrim,

i guess itz safe to say that we are not Christians then but Marians? ? ? ? ? ? ?


how do we honour Mary?

by asking her to Pray for us! not added nothing subtracted.

My Dear Catholics,

Have you adored Jesus in the blessed sacrament today? In his real presence. How about right NOW?  Are you wondering when you're going to have time to visit the chapel and pray before the blessed sacrament?

Look no further. I present to you LIVE Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. This is not a picture, but a live feed/video. What you see is actually live.

Please save/bookmark this link in your 'favourites'. Spend more time with Jesus.

So Come!, let us adore Him!! Spread the Word too!!!

http://www.savior.org/

(Please. note that the 'savior' is spelt without a 'u'. And u'll need to have Java software on your system. Its free to download online )


Proudly Catholic!!  
Catholic for Life!!!!!!!  
Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary!!

soldee:

@ Pilgrim, u say "There's really no point in trying to deny what we all know - and that is: Catholics make Mary the focal point of their devotions and worship. Period."

We Honour, not Worship Mary. And WHO does Mary lead us to EVERYTIME??

You're still beating thin air with clenched fist, my guy. Chill out and reflect deeply on these two things:

  (a) I've asked you to EXPLAIN the meaning of "honouring" Mary - have you done so?

That is why I said that Catholics will have nothing effective to say as explanation of the meaning of "honour" given to Mary - because it obviously would simply expose the fact that Catholicism has displaced Christ and supplanted Mary in His place. Or how else would the Catholic Bishops and Popes have referred to Mary as the SAVIOR of the people of Rome? Did Catholics not try to DENY that they PRAY TO Mary? Has that also not been exposed for the duplicity that it caresses?

  (b) If you still deny the fact that Catholicism WORSHIPS Mary, no worries - because they actually do.

I've said several times that I'm not seeking to deeply hurt your feelings; but to gently serve you the truth against your denials - and that's why I've been slow in posting the assertions of your Popes and Bishops on the fact that Catholicism worships Mary. Nonetheless, just the peripherals should be enough to make you think: what do the Catholic Bishops and Popes mean in asserting that rather than"looking unto Jesus", they would 'look unto MARY'? What do they mean by putting ALL their hopes and TRUST in Mary instead of in God?

If you haven't taken the time to study the teachings of your Popes and Bishops (as not many of the materials are readily available to the public), I wouldn't blame anything on you. Afterall, it would be unfair to blame anyone for not having known these things and so could only DENY them. However, please take some time to go back and study your own teachings in the light of God's WORD and see the difference!

Since you take out time to study Pope's this much, also take out time to try and study what we actually do

and YES it does give me the best satisfaction i can ever desire as a Christian being a Catholic.

as for defending, it may sound like what has been happening for centuries among Catholics according to you of course
but, i dnt see what i have to defend. . . .  

we honour Mary by asking her to pray for us and worship God our father in truth

Glory to Jesus

Honour to Mary

while still on d subject,

lemme also point out that in saying the Litany, we say

God in Heaven . . . . .  HAVE MERCY ON US

while

Holy Mary. .  . . .  PRAY FOR US

@viee,

viee:

Since you take out time to study Pope's this much, also take out time to try and study what we actually do

My dear friend, is it thinkable that anyone could study the lives and teachinsg of the Popes without having to study what Catholics actually do? How have I demonstrated that I haven't also studied what Catholics actually do? By being slow to not damage your faith all of a sudden? Haba. . . no be so! I'm not out here to get at nobody - rather, I'm asking you dear ones to think and not let the Vatican cheat you. That's why I'm prodding you all to go and check out your archives for yourselves and see things which I haven't posted here!

viee:

and YES it does give me the best satisfaction i can ever desire as a Christian being a Catholic.

No wahala - people who are very satisfied in life do not become jumpy all of a sudden and try to evade the embarrasing issues of Roman Catholicism. Do the RCC heresies give you the utmost satisfaction? From your own answer and affirmation, we wish you well groomed and stewed in them.

viee:

as for defending, it may sound like what has been happening for centuries among Catholics according to you of course
but, i dnt see what i have to defend. . . .

This is simply hilarious!  On the one hand, you wanted to clear up the idea that Catholics do not defend their faith; now on the other hand, you don't see what you have to defend. Hehe. . . Nne viee, no make me laff this morning! If nothing dey your corner, no shakara like say you get anything to talk in the first place!

viee:

we honour Mary by asking her to pray for us and worship God our father in truth

Hmmm. . . na so! You try! 3% pass!

You still have to reflect that answer against the obvious assertion of Pope Leo XIII who clearly stated that Catholics have ALWAYS put ALL their hopes and TRUST in Mary! What do you say to that - especially knowing what a Spirit-filled prophet Jeremiah said ages agaon: "Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD" (Jer. 17:5)?

Enjoy.

@ Pilgrim,

I have come to one conclusion. U dont follow any religion. Instead u attack others. Ur posts have attacked both Muslims and Catholics, to the extent of insulting our Holy Prophet, and u've spent so many hours attacking the mother of Jesus. I may not know enough to engage u in ur war against believers (not that I have the time of day!!) but I know one thing that is universally true: Anyone who has to defend their belief in God for any reason must be under attack from the Devil. Anyone who tries to trample on your chosen path to God can only be of the Devil. Anyone who tries to prevent u from reaching God is of the Devil. Anyone who would deny that God can choose to reach his chosen by any means is denying the supremacy of God and can only be of the Devil. I must say, @ Pilgrim, that u are evolving into a fantastic tool in the hands of he who now posseses u.  

Glory to Jesus

Honour to Mary

@ Pilgrim,

i have already pointed out that u only read what you choose to read and ignore what you choose to ignore. .  . .
read all my posts, i never said that i will defend anythn in the first place because i already knw just how pointless it will be

u really dont seek out of desire to know rather u ask to criticize even more
so why should i defend anything to you?

you select part of my post u feel u can deal with and dissect and leave the large chunk u cant deal with
so why should i defend anything to you?

you asked why we honour Mary, i explained to you the two basic differnce in what u have come to call worship. .  . u choose to ignore it
why should i defend anythn?

arguments have always and will alwys remain pointless because u do not seek to knw,
u are already convinced that you know it all


my Sis, in actual fact, u knw next to nothing abt what we do

i will keep prayn for u thou

@viee,

viee:

i think you hear precisly whet you what to hear. .  .
that is just the main problem here

no Pope will ever say that our Mother Mary is the focal point of the Catholic Faith!!!!!
JESUS!!!!

No, they are smarter than that! They do not say exactly those words; but they still want you to pur ALL your hope and TRUST in Mary so that she takes the place of Christ, as well as she becomes the object of ALL the devotion of Catholics. Please go and read the Popes and come back let's see if what I have posted is not true - then I go post am again. . . word for word!

viee:

why then do we go to Mass daily?
why do we place so much empahsis on the body and blood of CHRIST??

First of all, where do you read about "MASS" among the apostles of Christ in the Bible? You may place so much emphasis on the body and blood of Christ; but with over 6,000 titles reserved for Mary and not as much titles for Christ and God, who's fooling who in Catholicisim? May I repeat yet again: WHY has the Catholic Church taken the divine titles of God and ascribed them to Mary? Is that too much to answer?

viee:

someone makes a statement and u just go ahead and pick what you feel is wrong with the statement without putting into the context of the entire statement!!!!!!

No vex - could you please show HOW I have quoted the Popes out of context? Just stop the shakara and oblige me that one as simply as you can. Thank you.

viee:

she is also my hope because i know that she will pray for every second!!!

Fallacies have always given Catholics "hope" - because they know that the Bible clearly presents only Jesus Christ as the HOPE of Christians (Col. 1:27). Nne viee, where did you read that Mary is the hope of anybody?

viee:

Glory of Isreal??
Dear Lord, wher did u get that?

I'm glad you're getting shocked!  No be me name Mary by that title - na Vatican approve am long before I was born! Please see again the "Litany of Loreto" as approved by the Roman Catholic Church. Do your research and confirm the case for yourself - because if I give you link, smart Catholics will shout you down and say it is a "Protestant" weblink. Just go read the Litany of Loreto and let's see how cured you could be!

viee:

Morning star?

whats wrong with that??

Simple: because the Catholic Church has substituted Mary in place of Christ in Revelation 22:16 -- "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Where in God's WORD is Mary called the "Morning Star"?

viee:

Helper of Christian?
YES!. . .  she helps me by constantly praying for me!

No worries - when you stand before God and He asks you where He ever called Mary the "Helper of Christian" or the "Helper of the Redeemed", please prepare to make the same fallacious shakara before Him! Go back to the link I offered and read the fact that only God is the Helper of the Redeemed.

viee:

you actually know so little of what we do, any u base your arguement sadly on this

No dear - I've taken time to make sure that I do NOT misquote, misrepresent, misattribute, , or misbrand, misclassify the Roman Catholic Church in precisely the way she has presented herself and her tenets.

@ viee
nobody quarells with catholics for revering mary, it all good, however, why rever her to the exclusion of other saints,,,, shouldnt u rever saint peter, paul, john, thomas etc justa s much?, why not joseph?
protestants rever her too its just that we believe she was an ORDINARY woman specially chosen by God for an important task like many other women in the bible, remember the bible passage where jesus says: 'who si my fateher and mother, l these are my fat6eher and mother (pointing to his disciples)
Mary is cool, but so are a lot of other people in the bible

@ Pilgrim

funny d way u analyze issues,

they make us want us to put all our trust in her? . . . . hilarious!!!!!
this just proves what i have been saying all day
My dear, u knw absolutely nothing about the catholic faith!!!!!

we have abt 6000 names for Mary and less for JESUS?
Dear Lord!!!!!!!

shows how much u know and how little u knw!!!

i dont have to read to knw that i can ask her to pray for me!!
knowing that she is praying for me constantly gives me HOPE

u are so taken in by the word Bible that you ask some really funny question!
Mass where is it written in the Bible? dont make me laugh!
some churches use the term, Service to descrip what they do every sunday, some pple gathering, some pple celebration . . . .it is what it is. . . a term!
JESUS!!!

while you are checking out Litanies, also take out time to see Litany of Precious Blood, Divine Mercy etc, it will do u a world of good.

our Mother Mary is everything we say she is and even more

Simmy,

we do honour the Saint and apostles as well.

Glory to Jesus

Honour to Mary    

@marissa,

marissa:

@ Pilgrim,

I have come to one conclusion. You don't follow any religion. Instead u attack others. your posts have attacked both Muslims and Catholics, to the extent of insulting our Holy Prophet, and u've spent so many hours attacking the mother of Jesus. I may not know enough to engage u in your war against believers (not that I have the time of day!!)

First of all, dear marissa, you have come to a false conclusion about me. I have stated severally that I am a Christian; and in other places I've well defended that confession. The one thing that Catholics have tried to do is ask me to state my denomination - and my answer has simply been "Protestant", because I would not have anyone trying to turn our discussion into a denominational war. The problem is that Catholics have tred on a number of occasions to make this out to be a war between Catholics and my denomination - and that is what is hurting them in the most uncomfy places you could imagine.

Second, it's true that I've engaged Muslims in debates - for a number of reasons:

(a) I was a former Muslim; and no one can deny the fact that a Roman Catholic monk schooled Muhammad in most of the ideas that informed his understanding of Christianity. It is in this sad event that the prophet of Islam mistakenly claimed that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity consisted of the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Mother (Mary)!

(b) I have not sought to "attack" anyone - Muslims, Christians, Atheists, or whatever else, and definitely have not "insulted" Muhammad. Those who have held on to dishonest claims (including myself as a former Muslim) are quick to react and accuse others of having "attacked" their faith! The one thing I've tried to do is both present facts of any issues I enagge in any discussion; as well as challenge my Christian brethren to Biblical integrity and the Lordship of Jesus Christ. The failure of Christians in the past to have held on to Biblical truth is definitely the reason why there have been so many misconseptions about the Christian faith - which is still deeply seated in the hearts and consciences of multiplied millions of Muslims today!

marissa:

but I know one thing that is universally true: Anyone who has to defend their belief in God for any reason must be under attack from the Devil.

Not necessarily - because however you apply that, we would have to come to the basic point that the Catholic Church has bedevilled so many innocent people. Let's understand this: did the Catholic Church not arrest and torture innocent people to "defend" their faith in Christ during the Inquisition? If your assumption holds true, then those who were being tortured were under the attack of the RCC - and who was being used of the "Devil" to attack those innocent souls?

I rarely try to defend myself - not even when Catholics have assailed me with every unpalatable name under the sun that you could imagine. But I hold them forgiven in my heart - and have confirmed that forgiveness by not seeking to retaliate. However, when Catholics have tried to bedevil other Christians, I have not let it pass. WHY? Because in as much as I don't care for my welfare, I actually care for the welfare of others - because that is what Scripture asks me to do (Php. 2:4 & 21). I can't sit back and watch gleefully as 'Christians' use such bedevilled language on other 'Christians' with a hypocritical "love" and "peace" that only tarnishes our Christian testimony the more.

marissa:

Anyone who tries to trample on your chosen path to God can only be of the Devil.

Gratefully acknowledged. In the same way, if you believe in your statement, please remember that the Roman Catholic Church has tried to trample on the faith of many innocent souls - in one case, the RCC murdered a poor schoolmaster for daring to say "Praise be to God" instead of "Ave Maria". Would you please remember that by doing such, the RCC "can only be of" what you have described above? Thank you.

marissa:

Anyone who tries to prevent u from reaching God is of the Devil.

Gratefully acknowledged - the RCC for hundreds of years did that very thing - burning innocent people on the stake because they simply wanted to read the Bible for themselves. Not only so, Islam has done the same - and continues to do the same even today!

marissa:

Anyone who would deny that God can choose to reach his chosen by any means is denying the supremacy of God and can only be of the Devil.

As long as you didn't read that from me, no worries. ;DYou would only need to explain that to Moslems who would not recognize the supremacy of God except through the sword of Jihad.

marissa:

I must say, @ Pilgrim, that u are evolving into a fantastic tool in the hands of he who now posseses u.  

The One who holds me firmly is the Lord Jesus Christ - my Hope of Glory. If I'm evolving into a "fantastic tool" in His hands, I can't wait for that 'evolution' to be complete - because for precisely that same thing, I present myself to the Lord daily to be "a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work" (2 Tim. 2:21).

If by telling the hard truth of God's WORD, you term me a "fantastic tool", all praise and glory be unto His Name forever and ever! Amen!

viee:

Simmy,

we do honour the Saint and apostles as well.

How many "Ave Paul", "Ave Matthew", and "Ave Peter" do you know of?

How many Popes have stated that the Catholic Church puts ALL her hopes and TRUST in Matthew, Paul, Peter, John, or any of the other apostles?

@ viee,

Abi, you no see say we don tire for karat here? Maybe, you get some skills you wan display - then show am make we see whether you go karat dem down. Oby1, Carlosein and the rest even Tyson and tire. ebos karat, Tyson, wrestle - all the skills and styles to bring dem down but dem stand jeje - dem no fit fall. Who born you to fall giants dem? Our Protestant friends go make heaven, we (Catholics) go still make heaven. Na one God we dey call. simple. Me, I no get problem with dem - only say I don talk am say, na de time to listen. Na him make I go defense - dey learn new strategies.

Pilgrim,

i hope u knw dat im not among the Catholics that seek to knw ur denomination?
dsnt mak any difference to me.


as for honourn Saints. .  . .  u knw alot abt Litanies i presume,
so im shocked at that question

surely u have heard the litany of the saints or is your knowledge restricted to our Lady only?

ebos i feel you

but itz really sad what happens here
the Topic says real Cathoilcs stand up
i came here to worship with others and what do i get?

you get to Muslim only section, what do u see?
Deeper life etc the same

but go threads that say lets pray together, lets worship together and all
it is empty

i go through threads here and i wonder what our understanding of Christianity really means