Jenwitemi:

I think it is much more apt to change the title of this thread to, "The Improbability of The Jewish/Christian/Islamic God". Because, as i suspect, when atheist make claims that there is no God, they are always meaning the "One True Gods" of the world religions, especially those of the Abrahamic faiths, the 3 middle eastern desert dogmas. Those "Gods" that exist only on the pages of the scriptural texts of these religions. These scriptural Gods can be easily disproved as being responsible for the creation of this reality by the atheists. But to say that there is no intelligent creator at all responsible for creating this reality, this existence, makes the atheists look just as ridiculous as their opposites, the religious, in their school of thought.

There is a CREATOR of this physical reality, and that CREATOR is what we refer to in general as - even though the word is a pretty much bastardized one which i hardly use nowadays - GOD. To say that this physical reality - at whatever scale - was not created by an intelligent mind and just happen by CHANCE( ) is re.tar.ded, even insane. For nothing exists that was not created by an intelligent mind. There is no amount of research and discoveries that will ever prove that the creation of this universe, or any other universe, could have been achieved without the intelligent mind of a creator.

And the fact of the great possibility - confirmed by physicists that there is no solidity to this physical existence - that this physical reality is nothing more than just a programmed 3D virtual reality is enough to end all this silly debates for good.

Deep Sight:


How can you categorically say what is natural and what is supernatural natural? Do you not agree that a person who lived 2000 years ago would regard an aircraft as a most supernatural thing?

And yet there is nothing supernatural about an aircraft. It works with strictly natural laws of physics.

In my view, there is nothing like the word “supernatural”. Everything that exists is natural or unnatural but not supernatural. Artificial creations could be unnatural, but not supernatural, because all things exist in tandem with natural laws of physics and natural laws of existence.

The above two quotes are filled with so much light; if a clairvoyant gazes upon them, he will be blinded momentarily by the light that emanates from them.

I don’t know how to commend Deepsight and Jenwitemi enough for those wise and luminous words. I could not agree more with them.

Kudos to both of you! I’m humbled by your wisdom.

I was reading a thread when my eye fell on this link (at the end of the post) and immediately I remembered my words here

jayriginal:

Permit me though to make a few observations and feel free to correct me if there is a need.

You have referred to yourself as non religious and I think you would rather be regarded as spiritual. However, I see the seeds of religion in your philosophy (I dont mean this in a derogatory way).  .  .  .
You remember that somewhere in this thread, I had to step back for a while to ask you pertinent questions about your beliefs (resulting in this convo now).

I noticed and had to ask you a few questions which you never replied. I have found out one part for myself, purely by accident.

jayriginal:


Ok, heres the part where I try my hand at amateur psychology.
I get the impression that you have made a deep study of the major religions possibly some occultism as well. I think that the best parts of these religions have made an impression on you and these you have inculcated as well as many ideas original to you. I'm also pretty sure you have studied some atheist material as well. A fine blend of the best of the best, a dose of original thinking, soul searching and meditation and the man is born. We now call him Deep Sight.

I was very close to home and it wasnt that difficult to tell (I've been there as well). There were many pointers, many quite subtle and one particularly obvious one (karma). Its a well worn path you are treading.

Deep Sight:


@ mazaje - i am not a slavish adherent of anything fed to me by any one. You should have noticed that by now. It took me many years to arrive at my conclusions trust me. In the past i have been an Anglican, Jehovah's Witness, Rosicrucian, considered Islam, and almost Crossbearer. I have read the bible, the quoran, the grail message, and many Buddhist, Taoist, shintoist, and even hindu philosophies because i am a SEEKER.

Deep Sight:

@ Davidylan -

It appears you have misunderstood me. I did not say that i am a christian. To clarify, i am not a Christian.

I said i was born Christian. Translating from English to English, that simply means i was born into a Christian Anglican Family and grew up a Christian.

However i have keenly searched for the Truth all my life, and so have fully read the Bible, the Quoran, and many other works of faith seeking a round understanding.

So thats that. You still havent responded to the issue of the afterlife though.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=315294.msg4428004#msg4428004

Jayriginal, the only thing i got from your long long post is that, CHANCE is God. God(the bible/Quran Deities) is improbable as the creator, but CHANCE is.  Sorry, but to me, you have not succeeded in factoring out of the creation equation, A GOD. In your epistle, all you did was add another one. CHANCE is the name of the GOD you propound.

@jenwitemi:
You and Deepsight are wise men that add much depth and insight into our debates. However, as humans, I fear that we tend to be become hostage to our beautiful notions and hence dogmatic. I'm am surprised that you would refer as re.tar.ded, anyone who has dissenting views about the existence of a creator of the universe. Be careful not to become like the bible thumping folks on NL.

The idea of a creator is a good one that makes us warm and cozy. The notion of a non-creator is scary and uncomfortable. I am not surprised that most people cling on to the former.

However, for a true seeker, resting on the final conclusion that beyond all the mysteries and wonders of the universe is a designer and creator is , in my mind, laziness and a copout(no disrespect intended).
I really dont see how your very bright minds can claim that an uncaused cause created the universe, full stop, end of story.
It is grossly insufficient. By arriving at that conjecture, you have opened a pandora's box of new questions that need answers, even if speculative answers .
If an uncaused cause(meaningless semantics) created the universe, that pre-supposes that it exists outside the universe and therefore exist in a mechanism of time and space different from what we know or can speculate.Right?
If so,how can we think that it exist alone in that particular sphere of existence? It too has to have an origin and creator(?). Right?
If an uncaused cause came into existence spontaneously, as the word implies, then, my big question is:
Why do we imagine that the universe could have come into existence by the same mechanism?

Time and the universe are intertwined and at some point in infinity are probabbly one and the same. If time is non-linear, having no beginning or end, then there need not be a creator. This is hard to imgine , right? A self- created creator is even harder to imgaine. We simply choose which one we are most comfortable with. not so?
I think we should show humility ,and with child-like meekness ,proffess that we dont really know.
That is the only truth there is.

correction: Why do we imagine that the universe could not have come into existence by the same mechanism?

Jenwitemi:

Jayriginal, the only thing i got from your long long post is that, CHANCE is God. God(the bible/Quran Deities) is improbable as the creator, but CHANCE is.  Sorry, but to me, you have not succeeded in factoring out of the creation equation, A GOD. In your epistle, all you did was add another one. CHANCE is the name of the GOD you propound.

Jenwitemi
that means you assumed that I am adopting evolution. I am not necessarily doing so, but I do hold evolution as a more reasonable alternative to the account in Genesis.
I posted this not because I adopt it, but because on nairaland, I have read several nonsensical accounts of evolution and I wanted to clear the air on the matter.

Because I reside in the south south of the country, I come across christians a lot. Therefore my general target is the biblical god (general I said).
I dont need fancy equations or theorems to prove/disprove the existence of a god/intelligent designer.
I couldnt care less how the universe came into being (seeing as there is no definite answer to that), I'm pretty sure though that the god of the bible had nothing to do with it (not as he is portrayed anyway)

Bumped while reviewing.

Quite mistakenly