it is the slangs that differ but d the same Abraham

for example in naija,   Igbos call mother mama
                                   yoruba "   "         mami
                                   warri    "     "       malee
                                   

HENCE JEWS call Abraham
ARAB call Ibrahim

@Aletheia: « #61 on: Today at 01:09:30 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: LagosShia on Today at 12:25:20 PM
And he was not of the polytheists. . .
Abraham worshiped idols. . .until Yahweh Elohim called him.

(Josh 24:2-3 [KJV])
And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods. And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.[/Quote]The two in bold agree with each other. The father of both Abraham and Nachor the bibles say served other gods. The bibles did not say Abraham served other gods before God took him from the other side of the flood [after the flood of Noah, Abraham was born], leading him throughout all the land of Canaan and then multiplied his seed and giving him Isaac.


[Quote]Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God[/Quote]And some of you are born again will get the shock of your after life when Jesus says to you "I do not know thee", after all your so much laboring to perform "Miracles". What a waste of humanity.

does it matter where he came from

I will not qoute u of all because i saw that it has been done half even on my behalf, but just this few.

Sweetnecta::brodas? Name 2 brothers. And how did Ishmael show any hostility to any of his brodas? I have to laugh here because of the absurdity of the Bibles. Did anyone notice that such a prophesy from the angel did not come true? So i say the angel was a fake angel with a fake prophesy.

(Genesis)21 and the lord visited Sarah as he had promised ans the lord did unto Sarah as he had spoken. Sarah concieved and bare ABRAHAM a SON in this old age. AT 100 YEARS a child was born and there was already a child existing in the family. Do u asked urself, .why did GOD had to sure ISAAC has to be born?? Ishmaeh has not same purpose to God as ISAAC.  GOD ESTABLISED AN EVERLASTING COVENANT WITH ISAAC, Abraham spoke to God about ISHMAEL, then God  blessed him and made himfruitful, and made him a great nation.

Genesis 21:8-9, And the child grew, and was weaned and[b] ABRAHAM made a great feast the same day that ISAAC was weaned. And Sarah saw the son of Hager the EGYPTIAN which she had born Abraham, (MOCKING)[/b] AT WHO WAS HE MOCKING? AT A TREE OF COURSE.

SARAH told ABRAHAM, Cast out this bondwoman and her son, for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac. And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman. In all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice, for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. IT DIDN'T SAY ISHMAEL

Sweetnecta:: Imagine Abraham sneaking out Isaac from under the lady boss Sarah? That will be impossible. And little Isaac would not have served the purpose anyhow, because the story of Quran is more believable considering that muslim make an annual sacrifice to commemorate this event. The Jews, believe me would make a bigger annula event of it, if it was isaac because even the Macabees defeat of the assyrian/syrians is a big holiday for them. Imagine the sparing of the life of their father?

U va used the right word BOSS, she was a wife while Hager was her maid.

When the Scripture told us that Abraham obeyed and submitted to Sarah, by Casting them out, this mean that, SARAH SPOKE IN THE SPIRIT, It was not a wicked act or else God would have refused or rebuked her, instead he ordered Abraham to obey Sarah.  Sure Abraham loved Ishmael his son as well.
So u can see everything was in spirit. Hager left with her son Ishmael, That doesnt mean God was not with her.

Sweetnecta::Yet in the earlier part of your post you said completely opposite. You just cut and pasted, too?

I am not surprised, U re used to telling others this, keep it up.

Genesis 16:11-12 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael. Because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man, his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him, and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

The way of life in Islam today is: (violent), This varse has some trace to Islam Brutal way of killing.

Sweetnecta:

The two in bold agree with each other. . .

^The words written are clear and explicit but you Muslim must always twist it to fit your theology. . ."(Matt 13:14 [KJV]) And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:"

Abraham was an idolater before Yahweh Elohim chose him, called him out; before he believed in the one True God and Jesus His only Begotten Son and was saved. Just like the Jews you are stuck and stumble at this point. . .that Abraham also believed in Jesus and thus was saved by faith.

---

(John 8:52-58 [KJV])
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Exactly what Jesus said to the Jews is the same message to you today:
(John 8:23-24 [KJV])
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Sweetnecta:



And some of you are born again will get the shock of your after life when Jesus says to you "I do not know thee", after all your so much laboring to perform "Miracles". What a waste of humanity.

U are now the acting JESUS right?

(A′bra‧ham) [Father of a Crowd (Multitude)].
The name given by Jehovah to Abram (meaning “Father Is High (Exalted)”) when he was 99 years old, and when God was reaffirming His promise that Abraham’s offspring would become many.—Ge 17:5.
Family Origin and Early History. Abraham was the tenth generation from Noah through Shem and was born 352 years after the Deluge, in 2018 B.C.E. Although listed first among the three sons of Terah, at Genesis 11:26, Abraham was not the firstborn. The Scriptures show that Terah was 70 years old when his first son was born, and that Abraham was born 60 years later when his father Terah was 130 years old.Abraham was a native of the Chaldean city of Ur, a thriving metropolis located in the land of Shinar, near the present junction of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers.At 75 years old, Abraham began to move his household out of Haran to the land of Canaan, where he lived out the remaining hundred years of his life in tents as an alien and migratory resident. (Ge 12:4)Furthermore, Abraham again took a wife,” Keturah, and thereafter fathered six additional sons, so that from Abraham sprang not only the Israelites, Ishmaelites, [/b]and [b]Edomites but also Medanites, Midianites, and others. (Ge 25:1, 2; 1Ch 1:28, 32, 34) Thus it was that Jehovah’s prophetic utterance was fulfilled in Abraham: “A father of a crowd of nations I will make you.” (Ge 17:5) Finally, at the good old age of 175, Abraham died, in 1843 B.C.E., and was buried by his sons Isaac and Ishmael in the cave of Machpelah. (Ge 25:7-10).
u can can deduction.He s Ibrahim in Arabic,A'braham in Aramaic(jews) and Abraham in English.

Abram was an Arab, but Abraham was a Jew.
He originally hailed from Ur Kaśdim.
As many of those who claim to be Yorubas today originated from the Binis of Benin Kingdom.

Orikinla:

Abram was an Arab, but Abraham was a Jew.
He originally hailed from your Kaśdim.
As many of those who claim to be Yorubas today originated from the Binis of Benin Kingdom.

What is the meaning of this post?

aletheia:

Abraham worshiped idols. . .until Yahweh Elohim called him.

(Josh 24:2-3 [KJV])
And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods. And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.

---

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God

yeah thats according to your rotten bible where every vice is attributed to "men of God".

according to the Holy Quran,from which i presented verses in my first post,Abraham never worshipped any idol.so piss off!

(A′bra‧ham) [Father of a Crowd (Multitude)].
The name given by Jehovah to Abram (meaning “Father Is High (Exalted)”) when he was 99 years old, and when God was reaffirming His promise that Abraham’s offspring would become many.—Ge 17:5.
Family Origin and Early History. Abraham was the tenth generation from Noah through Shem and was born 352 years after the Deluge, in 2018 B.C.E. Although listed first among the three sons of Terah, at Genesis 11:26, Abraham was not the firstborn. The Scriptures show that Terah was 70 years old when his first son was born, and that Abraham was born 60 years later when his father Terah was 130 years old.Abraham was a native of the Chaldean city of Ur, a thriving metropolis located in the land of Shinar, near the present junction of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers.At 75 years old, Abraham began to move his household out of Haran to the land of Canaan, where he lived out the remaining hundred years of his life in tents as an alien and migratory resident. (Ge 12:4)Furthermore, Abraham again took a wife,” Keturah, and thereafter fathered six additional sons, so that from Abraham sprang not only the Israelites, Ishmaelites, [/b]and [b]Edomites but also Medanites, Midianites, and others. (Ge 25:1, 2; 1Ch 1:28, 32, 34) Thus it was that Jehovah’s prophetic utterance was fulfilled in Abraham: “A father of a crowd of nations I will make you.” (Ge 17:5) Finally, at the good old age of 175, Abraham died, in 1843 B.C.E., and was buried by his sons Isaac and Ishmael in the cave of Machpelah. (Ge 25:7-10).
u can deduce from above that he s neither a Jew nor an Arab,he was neither a Christain( It was first in Antioch [Syria] that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.” (Ac 11:26) It is possible, then, that this name was used as early as the year 44 C.E)
or muslem( came into existence over 600 yrs after d birth of Christainity).He s Ibrahim in Arabic,A'braham in Aramaic(jews) and Abraham in English.

Subscrbed!!!

Abraham AS is father to both arabs and jews. The biblical stories about Isaac and Ishmael are distorted to suit jewish agenda. You can access this truth by watching 'who wrote the bible' by robert beckford, an academic theologian. The bible is a great piece of edited stories, and personal ideology (paul's) as it was compiled more than 300 years after the ascent of Jesus AS to where God is preserving him. Books written by Jesus's brother's were removed from the canon just to suit the recently 'converted' roman emperor's taste, among which included the divinity of Jesus AS. I have read the bible and what strikes me is the admittance by the author's that some of the stories (like speaking in tongues) were later additions to the book by unknown personalities. How can a divine book be full of so much BS? As for bigotry and brutal massacres, all you need to understand them is to read the old testament, it is rife with blood thirst and senseless destruction. And in case anyone tries to decieve you by claiming that all the killing was in the old testament, just fast foward to the crusades, and the crusaders capture of jerusalem in the 1100's. Islam is always very clear when it comes to defending your rights and upholding truth. Its says fight those that fight you, or fight until there is no more oppression, but do not harm innocents. If some people try to justify wanton killing and destruction by Islam, they should come foward with proof backing their claims.

Abraham was originally a Syrian at a time when there was no christianity or islam, they were idol woshipers. Deut 26: 5 " And thou shalt speak and say before the LORD thy God, A Syrian ready to perish was my father, and he went down into Egypt, and sojourned there with a few, and became there a nation, great, mighty, and populous"

So the anser is Yes he was an Arab but certainly not a Muslim, You can read the who of Deuternomy  chapter 26 for proper perspctive.

Jimmy Boy:

Abraham was originally a Syrian at a time when there was no christianity or islam, they were idol woshipers. Deut 26: 5 " And thou shalt speak and say before the LORD thy God, A Syrian ready to perish was my father, and he went down into Egypt, and sojourned there with a few, and became there a nation, great, mighty, and populous"

So the anser is Yes he was an Arab but certainly not a Muslim, You can read the who of Deuternomy  chapter 26 for proper perspctive.

He was also not a Christian, he just believed in God and was counted to him as righteousness Romans 4:5

LagosShia:

yeah thats according to your rotten bible. . .

Hilarious. . .you Muslims should make up your mind. Confused bunch. So the Bible is rotten. . .and yet you idol-worshiping lot are always looking for Muhammad in it's pages.

---

(2Kgs 17:14 [KJV])
Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the LORD their God.

---

LagosShia:

. . .so piss off!

^ Where do you want me to piss? On your head? That will render you unclean in the eyes of your god. . .but wait it doesn't matter, you are already haram, as unclean or worse than a swine. . .which is why you have to do ablution every day. Unfortunately that cannot render you clean.

Come to Jesus and be washed.
(John 13:10 [KJV])
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Orikinla:

Abram was an Arab, but Abraham was a Jew.
He originally hailed from your Kaśdim.
As many of those who claim to be Yorubas today originated from the Binis of Benin Kingdom.

On the bolded:

Please call that back.

On the subject:

To say Abraham is Jewish or Arabic is to say a Father is from his son whereas it is the other way round.

Abraham is the father of the Jews(Judah, Levi and Benjamites), Israelis (referring to other sons of Jacobs that are not Jews) and the Arabs.

@Aletheia: « #69 on: Today at 02:07:33 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 01:29:44 PM
The two in bold agree with each other. . .
^The words written are clear and explicit but you Muslim must always twist it to fit your theology. . ."(Matt 13:14 [KJV]) And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:"

Abraham was an idolater before Yahweh Elohim chose him, called him out; before he believed in the one True God and Jesus His only Begotten Son and was saved. Just like the Jews you are stuck and stumble at this point. . .that Abraham also believed in Jesus and thus was saved by faith.[/Quote]Lol. You are losing it, mehn. I am sure this is similar to the argument between Biblical Baptist and Christ; The Baptist said I am not Elias. The Christ said The Baptist is Elias. And the Baptist ignored The Christ because he knows he can't prove it. And The Christ never did prove it. Where is the truth, I ask? No answer from Aletheia.


[Quote](John 8:52-58 [KJV])
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.[/Quote]I guess all of this is leading to a big punch line? I hope its below, because the above is completely irrelevant and i don't feel like breaking Aletheia's bubbles here. I will do it big time, below. InchaAllah.


[Quote]Exactly what Jesus said to the Jews is the same message to you today:
(John 8:23-24 [KJV])
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.[/Quote]After all of the "I am from above", you christians insist that Jesus is the king of the Jews. The jews live on earth, not in above. And what the Jews did not believe Jesus to be was nothing more that their prophet, and their tribal Messiah. Remember that Jesus said I was not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of israel? Send, is what Master do to a Messenger, a Slave, a Servant.


@plappville « #70 on: Today at 02:13:31 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 01:29:44 PM
And some of you are born again will get the shock of your after life when Jesus says to you "I do not know thee", after all your so much laboring to perform "Miracles". What a waste of humanity.

U are now the acting JESUS right?[/Quote]sisi, it is the woman gimmick that you are using. I am a muslim and acting Jesus should be a christian. I have only reminded aletheia his future difficulty with Jesus. Or you think, that verse is talking about Muslims? It will be impossible to tag the muslim since the identifier is "and we [christians] performed great miracles in your name [Jesus]".

Jimmy Boy:

Abraham was originally a Syrian. . .

^Actually it was Jacob who was being called a Syrian. Here is the cross reference:
(Hos 12:12 [KJV])
And Jacob fled into the country of Syria, and Israel served for a wife, and for a wife he kept sheep.
Abraham was from Mesopotamia (today's Iraq). . .but all these origins do not matter. What matters is what God had to say about them.
(Heb 11:13-16 [KJV])
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

U christians are so lost, the jews u so defend don't even care or recognise jesus, they call him a bastard till today, yet u follow them and the bible they made for u

Sweetnecta:

Where is the truth, I ask?

^Certainly not with Muhammad. . .another idolater who unfortunately did not follow the example of Abraham who forsook his idols when Yahweh Elohim called him out of UR of the Chaldees. Interestingly, the gods of Mesopotamia are the same gods that Muslims worship today under the name of "the god".

Here is the truth:
(John 14:6 [KJV])
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

All this talk is hot air. I weep for your souls, if you do not repent and accept Christ as your lord.

Keep his commandments and love your neighbour as yourself. For on the day of judgement the Son of God, the living messiah will judge us all.

Debating on a website and calling the Lord's name without fear or respect is fun and games, but the great and glorious day of the Lord beckons.

I believe Abraham (neither an Arab or an Israeli - but the father of both nations) is in heaven and our time on this earth can be better spent keeping the Lord's commandment and doing at least one good thing for a fellow human being today than insulting each other.

sorry oo, u are still qouting the book your master jew gave.

I have a few opinions:

1) Its uncivil/gutter-like to respond with insult.

2) The Bible and Quran alone cannot thrash this matter. Histrory and other intellectual works on the two religion will help.

3) From history, Mohamed was born about 50 yrs after jesus christ has finished his divine assignment, died and resurrected.

4) From a book "WHO IS THIS ALLAH?" by G.J.O. Moshay, a Muslim by birth, Allah is an Idol that Muhammed, a violent bandit leader imposed on other idol woshipers in Mecca, forcing them to abandon their own. [EVERYBODY SHOULD GO AND READ THIS BOOK- YOU WILL NEED TO SEARCH FOR IT FRANTICALLY BECOS BOOKSHOPS DO NOT DISPLAY IT OPENLY FOR FEAR OF MUSLIMS]

5) From History, some of the servants of mohammed from his caravan (bandit) trips ) were Hebrews through which he learned about Jesus and Christianity and all that their God (Jehovah) did to bring them that far. He also learned about the bible and got one for himself.

6) He felt he was great too and needed to start/create a religion like Jesus. Threfore he devised means to act as a  servant of an unseen God with the name Allah who communicates only with him.

He will normally go into pain and foaming in the mouth like and epilectic patient whenever he is receiving the contents of the Quran while someone was writing.

9) From the story he heard from Hebrew servants, he concorted his own Bible, the Quran, receiving stories of things that happens hundred of years before he was born and in manner that suits him.

10) He made sure the composition accomodates most things the bible did not like marrying more than one wives, killing for allah and get to paradise where 40 virgins will be handed to one man, etc

11) I do not think God will make a man go through pain and rolling on the floor to give him a message. Moses received the ten commandment without pain and even demanded to see God one one one. Though he was only indulged to see his back so he wont die.

12) The name Allah is not an arabic translation of God. It is a name of a deity just like ogun, sango, amadiogha, etc. It was an imposition by Satan through Mohammed.

13) Satan used Mohammed to dub/start a religion that offers no restriction or caution (instead he offered lust/vanity/violence) in the area of sin and moralty so as to lure as many people as possible into his habitation of fire. r


Trend:

1. People who convert from islam to christianity are upright and soul searching people They are convicted by the truth. While those that convert otherwise are desperate after one worldly lucre or the other. So they employ the convertion to get that which they covet.

2. Islamists are not fulfilled in their Allah and becos they are sinful souls, therefore they chose to remain in islam and fight for Allah.

3. Allah must be a dead God not to be able to fight for himself. Elijah told the prophets of baal to wake up their god in case he was asleep or to send a messenger incase he travelled. But he said his own God will "answer by Fire" and he did. WHY ARE MUSLIMS FIGHTING FOR ALLAH? Its must be a fulfilment of prophesy.

4. Pilgrim purportedly throw stones against satan in mecca. Thats a deception because satan is more than that. Even God (Jehovah) knows. Thats why he was casted out and Michael could not kill him. a "declaration of woe" was made to the earth where he was casted. Read Eph 6 and Rev 12. Satan is very powerful and Christians must be aware of that. Otherwise, you remain ignorant at your own peril. The arch angel Michael and his Junior angels could not defeat him. They only stopped him and cast him out.

6. Satan has a fake/duplicate of most of the power God carries and can virtually duplicate whatever God does in lower quality. Moses' rod became snake. Pharaoh's magictian's rod too became snakes. But the superior one swallowed the fake and changed back to rod. Which means they lost their rods to the battle. God (Jehovah) is Greater than Satan.

7. The quran is another of such duplication and deception using mohammed as a willing tool.

8. I think there is Godly difference between a faith that says turn the other cheek and one that says cut his hand if he steals.


This are my opinions

Abraham is neither an Arab nor a Jew.
Jews are technically descendants of Judah, the son of Jacob [Israel], the grandson of Abraham.
They later came to include the tribe of Benjamin [when the kingdom was divided into Israel and Judah] and descendants of other tribes who migrated to Jerusalem and its environs when the kingdom of Israel slipped into idolatory.
Arabs are daid to be descendants of Ishmael the biological first son of Abraham.

nice responses, but muslim lands like arabia, uae, iran, even yemen have the most morally upright poeple because of islam compared to usa, uk, italy, nigeria where christianity is praticed, they have the worst crime rates so where does the devil operate. even your pastors worship the devil to perform fake miracles

Sweetnecta, sisi, it is the woman gimmick that you are using. I am a muslim and acting Jesus should be a christian. I have only reminded aletheia his future difficulty with Jesus. Or you think, that verse is talking about Muslims? It will be impossible to tag the muslim since the identifier is "and we [christians] performed great miracles in your name [Jesus]".
Posted on: Today at 02:20:50 PM Posted by: X-factoria

I know u so well, i didn't make any mistake, my question goes to u as a Muslim acting in the place of JESUS christ my saviour. U know nothing about him, by the time u will discover him u will understand.

I hardly argue Base on Religion Issue because only God know's the truth.

All The prophet that was in the bible was also in the quran and but where the msitake comefrom is where Mohammed (SAW) was not name in he Bible.

We're all serving the same God.

He was a lagosian, elomiin o nise rara.which kind stupid question be this?u no get bible and eyin ode na wa n da loun, sorry i mean eyin idler

Abraham is the Father of Faith.He has gone to be with the Lord. You are the one living now.The question is where will you be after you close your eyes on this planet earth and where are you going to spend your eternity?That should be our major concern now.