Posted by: ndu_chucks

@Onlytruth, while you are at it, please remember to blame the biafran commanders including their supreme commander, who killed thousands of innocent Nigerians including women and children because they kept the war going instead of surrendering - this was after it has become clear and obvious that they could not win the civil war.

Those biafran commanders eventually fled after commiting the said genocidal(since you are using the word carelessly) act againsts their own people.

My good friend ndu_chucks, you are too smart to make this type of pedestrian comment.
So, putting up a military resistance to an invading army is now tantamount to committing genocide against own people?

I am still waiting for you to show me where Biafran soldiers wiped out entire men and children. Murtala wiped out men in ANIOMA. He also committed same crimes in one incident in Onitsha.

The UN Conventions of war defined clearly what constitutes a genocide. Murtala was in the thick of that definition.
But, really, the point of this thread is not whether he committed genocide or not. The point is whether he (with such genocidal records) is qualified to remain a Nigerian icon, to represent in effect all that is best about Nigeria.
That is the point of this thread.
If genociders represent Nigeria's best, then, why hound die hard Biafrans around? They obviously can never share in that value.

@Onlytruth
Abeg which genocide did Buhari personally commit during the war? please do not accuse people of genocide unless you have evidence, otherwise you would lose credibility.

Buhari was  disciplined Head of state and I believe he was probably also  a disciplined soldier. In 1967 he was probably only about 23years old

A little known fact about Buhari is that he has a christian wife.

His driver is also a christian.

If we are going to move on and make this entity Nigeria work, we need to stop thinking in tribal terms.

My support for Buhari was  because he is the right man to rid Nigeria of cancer of corruption and he was the best candidate in the recent elections by a long way in that aspect.

htajz:

nobody is celebrating those biafran commanders, why are we celebrating murtala mohammed,do u know how many people both biafrans and nigerians died because of this mans wickedness and arrogance during the war? is this the kind of people we want our children to be like? this should not be about who is biafran and who is not ,such people should not be idolized.

but u celebrate Okukwu

don't u ?

alj_harem:

but u celebrate Okukwu

don't u ?

why should i celebrate ojukwu,besides i dont see any airport in his name either, would you alahji harem want your children to be like murtala mohammed or see him as a role model?

htajz:

why should i celebrate ojukwu am i crazy,besides i dont see any airport in his name either, w[b]ould you alahji harem want your children to be like murtala mohammed or see him as a role model? [/b]

LOL. No

Would you want your children to be like Ojukwu ?

@alj_harem, quit playing games my friend.

@htajz, just ignore alj_harem

Onlytruth:

@alj_harem, quit playing games my friend.

@htajz, just ignore alj_harem

LOL only[b]lies[/b] u don start again with ur lies

what is this

Onlytruth:

Posted by: ndu_chucks
My good friend ndu_chucks, you are too smart to make this type of pedestrian comment.
So, putting up a military resistance to an invading army is now tantamount to committing genocide against own people?

[size=14pt]I am still waiting for you to show me where Biafran soldiers wiped out entire men and children. [/size]Murtala wiped out men in ANIOMA. He also committed same crimes in one incident in Onitsha.

The UN Conventions of war defined clearly what constitutes a genocide. Murtala was in the thick of that definition.
But, really, the point of this thread is not whether he committed genocide or not. The point is whether he (with such genocidal records) is qualified to remain a Nigerian icon, to represent in effect all that is best about Nigeria.
That is the point of this thread.
If genociders represent Nigeria's best, then, why hound die hard Biafrans around? They obviously can never share in that value.

i can point a few to you if u want ?

i think it is best to stick to ur topic rather than lying that Biafra did not commit genocide other other group

Onlytruth:

Posted by: ndu_chucks
My good friend ndu_chucks, you are too smart to make this type of pedestrian comment.
So, putting up a military resistance to an invading army is now tantamount to committing genocide against own people?

I am still waiting for you to show me where Biafran soldiers wiped out entire men and children. Murtala wiped out men in ANIOMA. He also committed same crimes in one incident in Onitsha.

You can throw accusations arround in your sorry attempt at rewriting history. Your accusations againast Murtala are laughable, do you even know the meaning of genocide?

What is not in dispute is the fact that after biafra was surrounded and a blockade was implemented, biafran commanders and their supreme commander decided to use women and children as weapons.  They allowed them to die by the thousands through starvation with the expectation that the international community would force the federal troops to give-up. When their strategy failed, these commanders fled like chickens!  


Before you start blabbing your mouth, please note that many of us lost relatives due to the senseless acts of these biafran commanders – do not reopen those wounds.  The acts of these commanders are not in dispute, but your accusations against the man, Murtala, are just that,  unsubstantiated accusations.

Your outrage is misplaced. The said commanders caused the deaths of arguably hundreds of thousands of Ndigbo people - !!!!

@ Onlytruth

The Midwest Invasion of 1967


Outright molestation, harassment and killing of non-Ibo civilians occurred on a daily basis. At night "suspected saboteurs" were fished out of their homes and arrested. The Hausa community in the Lagos street area of Benin and other parts of the state were targeted for particularly savage treatment, in part a reprisal for the pogroms of 1966, but also out of security concerns that they would naturally harbor sympathies for the regime in Lagos. But non-Hausas were just as badly treated. And as the hostility of the local population became more intense, so did the degree of indiscrete brutality for "internal security". Non-Ibo alumni of St. Patrick's College, Asaba and Government College, Ughelli, found to their chagrin that old school ties meant nothing in the new dispensation (17).


Radio broadcasts "educated" the public about the role of 'gallant' Biafran troops who had only come to liberate them from the "bondage of the feudal Hausa-Fulani oligarchy". An economic cooperation agreement was announced between the 'independent' states of Biafra and the Midwest. The truth, though, was that Ojukwu retained authority to approve all expenditures made by the Okonkwo regime and it was not until September 13th that normal postal, telephone and telegraphic services between Biafra and the Midwest were resumed

There are undoubtedly some historians (10)who see similarities between Ojukwu's invasion of the Midwest and Hitler's March 1938 march into Austria (the Anchsluss) following which he secured the annexation of Sudetenland in September (23). I think we can infer additional reasons, based on the operational and political details of the campaign, seen in light of the Nigerian situation at that time.


--------------------------------------

Mid westerners were MASSACRED BY Igbo soldiers too!

htajz:

nobody is celebrating those biafran commanders, why are we celebrating murtala
mohammed --?

Here's my opinion as to why  -- in my earlier post on this thread:

" -- if Murtala had not subsequently become a head of state; if he had not shown such a great vision; if his government had not demonstrated such a purposeful, responsible and committed leadership that earned him so much acclaim in Nigeria and across the African continent, if all these had not been the case, the country's biggest airport would not have  been named after him, talk less of 'seeing his face' on any of our currency notes.

-----

And it can even be argued that the extraordinarily shocking corollary effect of assassinating a serving head of the government of a country is in itself capable of garnering huge, widespread, non-partisan national sympathy for the assassinated leader; to some extent, that too could have contributed to celebrating Murtala as a national hero."

@GenBuhari

I thought that you would have at least researched the history of the guy you are supporting before taking on his name.
When I have time I will post some info. But I don't want the thread to derail, afterall Buhari has no international airport named after him.
Your ignorance is part of why I say that Igbo leaders between 1966 and today have been very irresponsible. If they did their jobs well, believe me, we would not have folks celebrating those who destroy their futures.
Igbo say that "onye atu gburu nna ya adighi eji mpi atu anu mmanya" (a man whose father was killed by a water buffalo never drinks palm wine with a buffalo's horn).  

^^^^^^^^^^

thanks jason

was just looking for that

well onlytruth, there u have it

I can bring out the biafra amry bombing lagos and killing of yoruba people in lagos as well

DO NOT TEMPT ME

Posted by: LogicPower

Here's my opinion as to why -- in my earlier post on this thread:

" -- if Murtala had not subsequently become a head of state; if he had not shown such a great vision; if his government had not demonstrated such a purposeful, responsible and committed leadership that earned him so much acclaim in Nigeria and across the African continent, if all these had not been the case, the country's biggest airport would not have been named after him, talk less of 'seeing his face' on any of our currency notes. --

And it can even be argued that the extraordinarily shocking corollary effect of assassinating a serving head of the government of a country is in itself capable of garnering huge, widespread, non-partisan national sympathy for the assassinated leader; to some extent, that too could have contributed to celebrating Murtala as a national hero."

I see you side-stepped my comment to repeat yours. Well, I repeat same response:

The bolded is the only concrete point in your post and can be argued as the main reason behind Murtala's iconization. BUT that tells you a lot about Nigeria!
So, because he died in a coup- the same coup that he participated in severally, one of which led to the death of a sitting head of state (Ironsi)- suddenly we develop amnesia about his bloody and treacherous past? Mind you that he died barely 6 years after the war. How could a nation forget so fast?
The only way to understand what happened, is to see it in light of the victor's worldview; but there lies the problem. Should Nigeria sweep Murtala's bloody and treasonous past under the carpet, just because he bamboozled gullible folks in his six months reign over Nigeria, which you admit could have still proven a flash in the pan in the long run had he not died the same way he lived? I don't even think he deserves a street named after him. IMHO.

However, what is clearly an egregious idea (as time would inevitably prove) is to iconize him - having his face on the nation's most used currency denomination, and his name on Nigeria's premier international gateway. It is offensive to sensibilities of decent humans, and insults the memories of innocent men and children (numbering thousands) massacred in Anioma and Onitsha under his command and watch.
As far as I know, none of the genociders of the civil war era are even mentioned much in public discourse. We talk about them in hushed tones. That one of them died in office should not catapult him to the position of a Nigerian icon, else it would send the wrong message that all you need to do is commit mass murder, and then die in a coup to become iconized in Nigeria.
If we repudiate such actions, it would chide current genociders in Nigeria and Africa and send a powerful warning to would-be ones who are planning something similar or worse.

here we go again, biafra this biafra that, i thought we are talking about MM, now i see why nigerian are really f.ucked , see the kind of people they see as role models, God forbid bad thing, we deserve everything that is happening to us. some morons are pulling up biafran war articles when we have a war going on in jos right now SMH

@Onlytruth, you are doing a disservice to Ndigbo by opening this thread. More young people will know how biafran commanders killed/murdered their relatives. Quite sad. Let sleeping dogs lie, olodo.

@jason123

Please try to show me where entire men in villages were lined up and executed in that Mid-West incursion by Biafran soldiers.
But again like I keep saying, none of the other REAL genociders in Nigeria -Adekunle, Shuwa et al has his name on the international airport or the Naira.
None of the Biafran actors even have streets named after them.
So, please don't derail the thread.

Posted by: ndu_chucks

@Onlytruth, you are doing a disservice to Ndigbo by opening this thread. More young people will know how biafran commanders killed/murdered their relatives. Quite sad. Let sleeping dogs lie, olodo.

I never thought you could ever be reformed from a die hard core genocidist to a modern citizen. Quite sad.
But, please stop trying to pretend that you know anything about Nigeria's future, cos frankly bro you have no clue!
Mutum banza.

Murtala mohammed is a blood thirsty soldier , read gowon comment about this , because of his hunger to kill more biafran he led thousands of nigerian sodiers who are fathers to their early grave even when gowon warned him not to proceed, the same man that killed everything that is not edo in benin during the war.he can be celbrated in his region(btw he is from edo state) but not as a national figure just as i  dont expect igbo to celebrate adaka boro neither do i expect yorubas to celebrate abacha> hey i have an idea lets name the new lekki airport abacha airport or put babangida face on 2thousand naira note also onitsha seaport should be named adekunle international seaport onitsha since these are our role models.

ndu chuks is defending him cus he thinks he is a northerner

The immortalization  of this evil man that is currently burning in hell is an insult the east!! And for those calling ojukwus name, I implore  u to go read the history of the genocide again! And for those that think this some joke or comedy may genocide decend on ur tribe, then we can see how u smile.

As the civil-war commenced, Murtala Muhammed entered the war in the Midwest campaign where he robbed the Central Bank in Benin, and began his litany of war crimes. Federal forces under his command unleashed a massacre of Igbos in Benin city and environs, however Asaba became the legendary centre were Murtala Muhammed set a record of war crimes. In a rain of blood, tens of thousands of innocent youths, some of them just 6 years old were lined up on the streets of Asaba and executed in cold blood on the direct orders of Murtala Muhammed. The Asaba massacre was the first of its kind in Africa and remains one of the bloodiest to date in the history of the African continent. As a further testimony to the bloodlust and depravity demonstrated by Murtala Muhammed and his forces, few kilometres away in Onitsha, another barbaric massacre was unleashed in the Apostolic Church where over 300 civilians, devout Christians including women and children who had stayed back and continued in their prayers after the fall of Onitsha were brutally murdered in cold blood.

http://asaba.com/?p=352


And this is the Nigerian icon.
An icon of genocide.

htajz:

ndu chuks is defending him cus he thinks he is a northerner

You sound like a dullard. The point I am making is that your outrage is misplaced. biafran soldiers killed more biafrans than the federal troops. Their cowardice act of not surrendering and using our people as bait is worse than genocide. They killed thousands of Ndigbo women and children.

Posted by: ndu_chucks

You sound like a dullard. The point I am making is that your outrage is misplaced. biafran soldiers killed more biafrans than the federal troops. Their cowardice act of not surrendering and using our people as bait is worse than genocide. They killed thousands of Ndigbo women and children.

So in your book, putting up a stiff resistance and refusing to surrender is a mark of cowardice abi?
What kain school you go sef? Abi na madrassa?

ndu_chucks:

You sound like a dullard. The point I am making is that your outrage is misplaced. biafran soldiers killed more biafrans than the federal troops. Their cowardice act of not surrendering and using our people as bait is worse than genocide. They killed thousands of Ndigbo women and children.  

this must be the most stupid post on nairaland and am not suprised its coming from a northerner since you people are known to lack basic human intelligence and understanding. btw this is about should murtala mohammed be immortalized or not  and not about biafran soldiers ,na so una dey take fail jamb.

Posted by: htajz

this must be the most silly post on nairaland and am not suprised its coming from a northerner since you people are known to lack basic human intelligence and understanding. btw this is about should murtala mohammed be immortalized or not  and not about biafran soldiers ,[size=14pt]na so una dey take fail jamb[/size].

Ma broda no kill me o.

Onlytruth:


I see you side-stepped my comment to repeat yours. Well, I repeat same response:  

How did 1 'side-step' your comment?.

1. I was responding to a specific, quoted part of a comment made by another poster (htajz) not you; unless you are the same person, which I couldn't know.

2. I wanted to answer his/her question 'why Murtala is celebrated and not Biafran commanders' by giving him/her MY OWN OPINION as to why.

3. I stated very clearly that I had expressed that my opinion in my earlier post on the thread.

4. I simply went straight to my original post and copied and pasted the relevant portion of my opinion that I considered, rightly or wrongly, to be a possible answer to his question!.

5. If you, or anybody for that matter, had made a comment on my original post, how would you reasonably expect me to incorporate such YOUR comment (or anybody's) in this particular context?

@jason123,its either u r slow or u have a very bad comprehension,
Some ppl claim to be educated but when it comes to a common issue that explains it self their tribalistic bigoted nature and unhidden hatred for Ndigbo will not let them grasp a simple word "massacre" or "genocide".

Onlytruth, my apologies for derailing this thread.

NRI PRIEST:

@jason123,its either u r slow or u have a very bad comprehension,
Some ppl claim to be educated but when it comes to a common issue that explains it self their tribalistic bigoted nature and unhidden hatred for Ndigbo will not let them grasp a simple word "massacre" or "genocide".

You are the daft and slow person. In every story, there are two sides to it. You shout "hatred", "massacre", "killing" etc as if, Biafran soldiers did not perpetrate the same in the Mid-west through their "liberation" adventure.

I am not justifying Muritala BUT people, especially the young ones who absorb whatever is put on the net, MUST KNOW the atrocities Biafran soldiers commited and their agenda.

Ndu_Chuks has already done justice to that. I was only helping him. Do not take other people's silence for guilt or what not, whenever you bring this sort of topic. The only reason people are not responding properly is because they do not want to open old wounds!

@jason123 - I've heard lots of rumours about biafran massacres in the midwest but have never seen any proof of this. If you know any sources (not NL posts) I'd love to see them. Personally I never heard of such till I started visiting this site. After the war there was an enquiry set up to find out and it came out to certify that nothing like that happened

russellino:

@jason123 - I've heard lots of rumours about biafran massacres in the midwest but have never seen any proof of this. If you know any sources (not NL posts) I'd love to see them. Personally I never heard of such till I started visiting this site. After the war there was an enquiry set up to find out and it came out to certify that nothing like that happened

Baba, I'll post the links in a bit. Just a quick note: It was because of these atrocities, resentment started growing. After all, we all knew the Liberation army was accepted initially.

I used to ask my dad how come someone like murtala has an airport named after him when he is responsible for the death of his fellow comrades in arms and civilians at that same airport! It beats me silly, i wonder what went wrong, is it that Nigerians are totally devoid of common sense? Here we have some nairalanders trying to justify genocide in this present day.

@ op, yes i want his face removed from the naira, and replaced wit the pictures of the corpers who lost thier lives in the post election violence!

Onlytruth:

Posted by: ndu_chucks
So in your book, putting up a stiff resistance and refusing to surrender is a mark of cowardice abi?
What kain school you go sef? Abi na madrassa?

Stiff resistance in front a more powerful enemy is not only cowardice, it's foolishness, same foolishness that showcased Ojukwu's lack of basic concepts, demands and  understanding of the consequences of war.

Btw, didn't he finally displayed the ultimate act of cowardice by dumping the people he led to their death on the battle field and took off like a sissy?

What's your point really?

http://www.dawodu.net/midwest.htm

Some military officers then persuaded a number of traditional rulers in the Ibo-speaking areas of the state to sign petitions calling for a merger with their "kith and kin" in the east. . . . .
---------

Outright molestation, harassment and killing of non-Ibo civilians occurred on a daily basis. At night "suspected saboteurs" were fished out of their homes and arrested. The Hausa community in the Lagos street area of Benin and other parts of the state were targeted for particularly savage treatment, in part a reprisal for the pogroms of 1966, but also out of security concerns that they would naturally harbor sympathies for the regime in Lagos. But non-Hausas were just as badly treated. And as the hostility of the local population became more intense, so did the degree of indiscrete brutality for "internal security". Non-Ibo alumni of St. Patrick's College, Asaba and Government College, Ughelli, found to their chagrin that old school ties meant nothing in the new . . . .

---------

Radio broadcasts "educated" the public about the role of 'gallant' Biafran troops who had only come to liberate them from the "bondage of the feudal Hausa-Fulani oligarchy". An economic cooperation agreement was announced between the 'independent' states of Biafra and the Midwest. The truth, though, was that Ojukwu retained authority to approve all expenditures made by the Okonkwo regime and it was not until September 13th that normal postal, telephone and telegraphic services between Biafra and the Midwest were resumed  . . . .

------

There are undoubtedly some historians (10) [size=16pt]who see similarities between Ojukwu's invasion of the Midwest and Hitler's March 1938 march into Austria (the Anchsluss) following which he secured the annexation of Sudetenland in September (23). I think we can infer additional reasons, based on the operational and political details of the campaign, seen in light of the Nigerian situation at that time. . . .

------
In a pattern of behavior that can only be described as self-destructive, the "liberation" force went molesting, Desecrating, kidnapping, torturing, detaining and even killing local figures whose support they badly needed (14, 17). For example, Mr. J. O Adeola (Commissioner of Police), Mr. Olu Akpata (Permanent Secretary), Mr. Sam Umweni (of Radio Nigeria, Benin) and Mr. J Imoukhuede (Head of the civil service), were abducted from Benin and taken back to Biafra
--------

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By the time they reached it, Biafra's outnumbered troops had fled, along with many Ibo civilians and $5,600,000 from the Benin treasury.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,844010,00.html#ixzz1YRiatW1H
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