noetic16:

Implying that atheist are actually dumber than they pose to be.

No, it implies that you're unable to communicate using English words effectively. Based on what you said, do atheists then consider believers an actual separate species maybe non-human? Please learn to communicate using words.

noetic16:

I am not surprised at your comments. Are u scared of listing those devastating points?  

You're already reading the book with the points. Though your attempt at destroying them here have failed woefully as I've demonstrated.

noetic16:

No they are NOT the same. There are two arguments here . . . , the first relates to the existence of a super-intelligence capable of creating the material world. The second argument relates to His identity. By promoting the FSM as deity, are u conceding that the universe and all other things are products of a super intelligence?

If you affirm yes to that . . . then we can move on to the identity of the super intelligence.

I never said they were the same. I pointed out that it was a thought experiment introducing the FSM for the sake of argument. I'm not affirming yes to that I'm simply agreeing with you that there is something that created the universe for the sake of argument. Now try and present your point.

noetic16:

This is rather DUMB.

what do u mean by ultimate? ultimate in respect to what? . . . ,  how does the identity of the super-intelligence affect the logic behind the creation prowess?

Ultimate in the sense of being even more powerful than your own God. The identity matters for us to know the God to pray to. Praying to the wrong God means wasted effort and terrible punishment according to Christianity.

noetic16:

Can u read at all?  

Obviously, I can but you seem to find it difficult to read and comprehend.

noetic16:

God is omnipotent . . .YES. But he also has the liberty to do he pleases. This is what I call FLOG.
You are able to walk, why have u chosen not to walk from lagos to kano?  You are able to eat, why have u not eaten a life lizard?

If you like, call it WHIP it still doesn't help you in any way. If God loves humans, he is bound to care for them which is what my example demonstrated. For some reason, you were unable to understand it.

noetic16:

Quite silly I must say. How can you say communication fails? Prayer is communication from one end to the other. Both ends have the prerogative to ask and receive. however, it is not a simple procedure, implying that a relationship needs to exist and the request has to be in conformity with the plans of the sender.
If a request is made, it is at the prerogative of the sender to decide if to send and what to send.

Oh? Don't you think communication can fail? By sender, are you talking about the person praying or what? You seem confused.

noetic16:

Have u ever refused a request in your entire life? why?

Perhaps u should ask questions if you dont know. Your comments on prayer shows a deep rooted level of ignorance. God is omnipotent, but he aint a robot.

I've asked you several questions and you tend to answer off point. If I show ignorance, then feel free to rectify it rather than speaking off point. How do you know God is omnipotent and loving when he is unable to perform simple tasks like answering simple prayers?

noetic16:

You are ignorant my friend. . . .a little education would be nice. . . .read the following carefully and try your best to assimilate.

Let's see what you think education is.

noetic16:

1. Love as expressed by humans is an act of gesture from one to another, in a selfless manner devoid of ulterior motives. When we help those in need and cater for the less privileged without expressing anything in return . ,  then we exercise a gesture called LOVE.

So how is this a being? You're still going off point.

noetic16:

2. Through biblical teachings. . . . .we understand that the primordial acts of God were gestures of Love. The creation of a help mate for Adam, the creation of the garden of eden, the sacrifice of Christ at the foundation of the world and the covenant of God with men. Through these acts we see God showing gestures that would be later inculcated into the acts of believers all over the world.

So claiming that God was showing gestures means that love is a being?

noetic16:

3. Christ gave a new commandment implying that LOVE your neighbour as yourself and LOVE the LORD your GOD. For there is Love, there He is.
Through these we know that God is LOVE.

Wow. What a non-sequitur. Jesus says love your neighbour as yourself therefore love becomes a being called is God? You're really confused here. Here let me demonstrate using your statement above.
Saying Love the LORD your GOD then means Love the LOVE your LOVE since according to you, God is love.

noetic16:

4. Stating that LOVE is a being, is simply a den-notative illustration of the presence of God and stating that God is an emotion is a connotative illustration of the presence of LOVE. For where there is LOVE, there is GOD.

Hmm the expected woo woo hand waving makes it's appearance. Please for the purpose of this discussion, try to have a concept of the beings that you're talking about and be consistent with it so you don't commit a fallacy of ambiguity.
Love is a person and God is an emotion. Sheesh. I hope you don't go out and pray to jealousy.

noetic16:

just show me where EXACTLY in the bible is any of your rubbish assertions written?

What is this? You want me to show you where God is supposed to love all humans? Wait you really believe that the Christian God isn't supposed to love all humans? If you're this ignorant of Christianity, then I really cannot help you.

noetic16:

Your intellectual ability is judged (as far as this thread is concerned) by the quality of new and empowering knowledge you bring to this debate. So far, u have made no point, except for the usual sad atheist denials . . . . . pls invite mazaje to come bail you out.  

As you've shown, I don't need to present very new information since you're already tying yourself up in knots with your own statements and appear deeply ignorant of various features of the Christian God.
With what you've said above, do you think you're qualified to educate anyone on the Christian God?

Fundamental Liberties of God! That is an oxymoron. The word God inherently implies omnipotence, so you dont need to add anything else to it. You guys are actually blasphemers of your god. You enjoy the Fundamental Liberty of adding and subtracting from your god whenever it suites you.
This is a new one. Which section of the bible did this one come from? lol.
Christians love to coin windy phrases.
Anyone is at liberty to coin phrases to mean whatever they want it to mean. Does that validate any argument?

Deep Sight:

^ Long time Noetic. Missed ya. How bodi?

I was going to holla at you . . . , Howdy bro . , glad to be back . . whats up with u?

Martian:

So if the only path to god is esoteric, that means most people were destined to be tortured for eternity before they were even born because that is god's divine plan. If it's only meant for a select few, how is god omnibenevolent?

This is a FALSE assumption. By being esoteric, it means seek God and you shall find Him. God is benevolent, but He aint wasteful.
Make your choice, the narrow or the wide path. The consequences await you.

Through the promise of the holy spirit and the manifestation of the promise, we know that Christianity is indeed esoteric. For what the spirit reveals are deep secrets, meant only for those who walk with God.

zataxs:

by saying it is esoteric you simply mean, that it is a secret!!! hahaahahah that is something that only revealed to you, right?
and you are absolutely right! people because god=noetic16=jesus=you ha ha ha
god understands you so much and he loves you so much and hates the people you hate, because god is you. hahaha
christian doctrine however is not esoteric, not in the least form. It is available to everyone, easily and readily and it takes you to have blind faith to believe it.

blah blah blah . . . .get off the highway and start making some sense.
When Christ preached . , . .His message was contrary to the traditions and expectations of His audience. They were expecting a messiah, but not one from Nazareth, without a physical army and who offers no immediate liberation from the Roman occupiers. Hence His message was ESOTERIC.

@Deepsight:
I'm still awaiting ur counter argument to our earlier discussion.

noetic16:

I was going to holla at you . . . , Howdy bro . , glad to be back . . whats up with u?

This is a FALSE assumption. By being esoteric, it means seek God and you shall find Him. God is benevolent, but He aint wasteful.
Make your choice, the narrow or the wide path. The consequences await you.

Through the promise of the holy spirit and the manifestation of the promise, we know that Christianity is indeed esoteric. For what the spirit reveals are deep secrets, meant only for those who walk with God.

So the message of Jesus is esotoric? Well, congrats. This is perhaps the ONLY TRUTH I have heard from a christian. There is hope after all.

If so,to whom did he reveal the secretes? To whom are those esoteric revelations enthrusted to? Who are the modern day custodians of the esoteric revelations of jesus?
Who is competent to unseal and reveal these esoteric teachings, in chewable sizes, to a confused mankind?

noetic16:


blah blah blah . . . .get off the highway and start making some sense.
When Christ preached . , . .His message was contrary to the traditions and expectations of His audience. They were expecting a messiah, but not one from Nazareth, without a physical army and who offers no immediate liberation from the Roman occupiers. Hence His message was ESOTERIC.

Esoteric
Designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone <a body of esoteric legal doctrine
Requiring or exhibiting knowledge that is restricted to a small group <esoteric terminology>; broadly : difficult to understand Limited to a small circle <engaging in esoteric pursuits> b : private, confidential <an esoteric purpose>
Of special, rare, or unusual interest

If his message was just contrary to their expectations, you could say his message was ambiguous.
Saying it was esoteric means it was only meant for certain people alone. A small group of people now known as christians while everbody else were never meant to get this esoteric knowledge anyway.
If god is omnibenevolent, why would he make his message to his beloved esoteric and ambiguous?

blah blah blah . . . .get off the highway and start making some sense.
<<
@ noetic16 , Christians love acting so "non-Christianly" hahahah, so rude and obnoxious,  you'd wonder who has the holy spirit. hahaah
well, well, I am on the highway,  and what I have said makes perfect sense.
>>
When Christ preached . ,  . .His message was contrary to the traditions and expectations of His audience. They were expecting a messiah, but not one from Nazareth, without a physical army and who offers no immediate liberation from the Roman occupiers. Hence His message was ESOTERIC.
<<

well said, @Martian, I repeat, what you said, here, again, hihih

I see, you mean ,  his message was "confusing to the receipts",   that we already know,  and his intention for doing this is clear
Mark
4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Is that what you think Esoteric means? Christians have a tendency to abandon their dictionaries when their god is involved.

let me make it easy ,for you,  this is a quote from dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/esoteric
1.
understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite: poetry full of esoteric allusions.
2.
belonging to the select few.
3.
private; secret; confidential.
4.
(of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group: the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.

So stop pretending that you are coming up with new English words, we already know what they mean. The best you can do is pick 1 to 4, and say which one you think means ".His message was contrary to the traditions and expectations of His audience. They were expecting a messiah, but not one from Nazareth, without a physical army and who offers no immediate liberation from the Roman occupiers. Hence His message was ESOTERIC." or get us a more suitable word like "confusing".
>>

thehomer:

No, it implies that you're unable to communicate using English words effectively. Based on what you said, do atheists then consider believers an actual separate species maybe non-human? Please learn to communicate using words.

ok . . . . .

You're already reading the book with the points. Though your attempt at destroying them here have failed woefully as I've demonstrated.

ok . . .  .

I never said they were the same. I pointed out that it was a thought experiment introducing the FSM for the sake of argument. I'm not affirming yes to that I'm simply agreeing with you that there is something that created the universe for the sake of argument. Now try and present your point.

I am strictly interested in your original position ,  . . ,  without the need for allegedly "creating an argument" . . . . .do u subscribe to the notion that a super-intelligence created the material would we live in? please give reasons for your answer.

Ultimate in the sense of being even more powerful than your own God. The identity matters for us to know the God to pray to. Praying to the wrong God means wasted effort and terrible punishment according to Christianity.

more powerful . .  , how is power measured here? and whats the basis for comparison? and is ultimate the only characteristic of your spaghetti deity? does he have antecedents?
Dont try to make a bad case worse. The human names given to the super-intelligence who created the material world does not imply multiple personalities, except for certain instances. It is simply an illustration of man's understanding over the years of a greater force and power. To sit down here and start making an argument over the identity of the super intelligence is IMO a LAME exercise.

If you like, call it WHIP it still doesn't help you in any way. If God loves humans, he is bound to care for them which is what my example demonstrated. For some reason, you were unable to understand it.

Oh? Don't you think communication can fail? By sender, are you talking about the person praying or what? You seem confused.

I've asked you several questions and you tend to answer off point. If I show ignorance, then feel free to rectify it rather than speaking off point. How do you know God is omnipotent and loving when he is unable to perform simple tasks like answering simple prayers?

You said prayer failed whilst tested. I asserted that prayer did not fail, at least not on God's part. This assertion is buttressed by the questions I asked you which you conveniently ignored . .  . . ,  you can walk, why have not chosen to walk from lagos to kano. you can eat, why have you not chosen to eat a life-lizard?

Let's see what you think education is.

So how is this a being? You're still going off point.

So claiming that God was showing gestures means that love is a being?

Wow. What a non-sequitur. Jesus says love your neighbour as yourself therefore love becomes a being called is God? You're really confused here. Here let me demonstrate using your statement above.
Saying Love the LORD your GOD then means Love the LOVE your LOVE since according to you, God is love.

if thats your understanding . . . . fair enough.  

Hmm the expected woo woo hand waving makes it's appearance. Please for the purpose of this discussion, try to have a concept of the beings that you're talking about and be consistent with it so you don't commit a fallacy of ambiguity.
Love is a person and God is an emotion. Sheesh. I hope you don't go out and pray to jealousy.

i laff in greek

How about you admitting your ignorance in this subject?  

What is this? You want me to show you where God is supposed to love all humans? Wait you really believe that the Christian God isn't supposed to love all humans? If you're this ignorant of Christianity, then I really cannot help you.

You made a FALSE and RIDICULOUS claim about God. I am simply asking you back up your claim with evidence. why is that so hard for you to do?
is this an admission on your part that you are IGNORANT of biblical injunctions? where in the bible is your assertion supported?

As you've shown, I don't need to present very new information since you're already tying yourself up in knots with your own statements and appear deeply ignorant of various features of the Christian God.
With what you've said above, do you think you're qualified to educate anyone on the Christian God?

On the contrary, I think that perhaps your involvement with atheism is not influenced by reason or logic but rather by emotions. You have not displayed any thought-provoking narrative to illustrate why the material world we live in could not have been made by a super-intelligence. Neither has your master, Richard Dawkins being able to do the same.

noetic16:

I was going to holla at you . . . , Howdy bro . , glad to be back . . whats up with u?

This is a FALSE assumption. By being esoteric, it means seek God and you shall find Him. God is benevolent, but He aint wasteful. Make your choice, the narrow or the wide path. The consequences await you.
Through the promise of the holy spirit and the manifestation of the promise, we know that Christianity is indeed esoteric. For what the spirit reveals are deep secrets, meant only for those who walk with God.

God ain't wasteful but has allegedly created billions of people just so a select few can enter into his presence. He loves you, created billions of people then created a path wide enough for 100 million to be saved while 7 billion+ do the shimmy ya with the devil in the fiery dungeon. This god must be a troll.

This god must also be a Nigerian because only a Nigerian government official would build a two lane highway when rush hour traffic demands 6.

On the contrary, I think that perhaps your involvement with atheism is not influenced by reason or logic but rather by emotions. You have not displayed any thought-provoking narrative to illustrate why the material world we live in could not have been made by a super-intelligence. Neither has your master, Richard Dawkins being able to do the same.
<<
@noetic16, you are making the claims, you present the evidence.
no RD is not a master of atheism. there is no authority in atheist. no jesus and certainly no satan to hold hands with that jesus.
>>

zataxs:

<<
@noetic16, you are making the claims, you present the evidence.
no RD is not a master of atheism. there is no authority in atheist. no jesus and certainly no satan to hold hands with that jesus.
>>

It's a defense mechanism. Since they are so dependent on seemingly infallible authority, they feel they have to project the same unto their perceived foes. That's why phrases like, "the atheists elders" and "your master Richard Dawkins" are so common place on this board.

globexl:

Fundamental Liberties of God! That is an oxymoron. The word God inherently implies omnipotence, so you dont need to add anything else to it. You guys are actually blasphemers of your god. You enjoy the Fundamental Liberty of adding and subtracting from your god whenever it suites you.
This is a new one. Which section of the bible did this one come from? lol.
Christians love to coin windy phrases.
Anyone is at liberty to coin phrases to mean whatever they want it to mean. Does that validate any argument?

1. The fundamental liberties of God simply implies that as we debate the existence of a super intelligent being who created the universe, might we also put into consideration the fact that He is intelligent enough to make his own choices and decisions.

2. True that God implies omnipotence . . .  , but wrong cos He is also intelligent with liberty for likes and dislikes. for instance, you have certain abilities. You are able to eat, why have you not chosen to eat a life-lizard? God is omnipotent, but He is also an intelligent being capable of deciding what and what not to do.

3. and what exactly was the argument again? why do u think that the universe can not be a product of super intelligence?

globexl:

So the message of Jesus is esotoric? Well, congrats. This is perhaps the ONLY TRUTH I have heard from a christian. There is hope after all.

If so,to whom did he reveal the secretes? To whom are those esoteric revelations enthrusted to? Who are the modern day custodians of the esoteric revelations of jesus?
Who is competent to unseal and reveal these esoteric teachings, in chewable sizes, to a confused mankind?

have u ever heard of the HOLY SPIRIT? . . . . .just asking

Martian:

Esoteric
Designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone <a body of esoteric legal doctrine
Requiring or exhibiting knowledge that is restricted to a small group <esoteric terminology>; broadly : difficult to understand Limited to a small circle <engaging in esoteric pursuits> b : private, confidential <an esoteric purpose>
Of special, rare, or unusual interest

If his message was just contrary to their expectations, you could say his message was ambiguous.
Saying it was esoteric means it was only meant for certain people alone. A small group of people now known as christians while everbody else were never meant to get this esoteric knowledge anyway.
If god is omnibenevolent, why would he make his message to his beloved esoteric and ambiguous?

It is for a select few only. Jesus asserted repeatedly that No man can come to the father except by Him and no man can also come to the son except the father draws him near.

That in its own should imply that the message is for the CALLED . . . .hence ESOTERIC . . . .

noetic16:

It is for a select few only. Jesus asserted repeatedly that No man can come to the father except by Him and no man can also come to the son except the father draws him near.

That in its own should imply that the message is for the CALLED . . . .hence ESOTERIC . . . .

And since the message is only for the CALLED, hence ESOTERIC, it implies that if god doesn't "call" you then he created you to ultimately perish for his own amusement because you're not part of the "select few".  A couple billion hindus will roast with me in hell fire because his message is esoteric. Since he is omniscience, he knows this already. That is omnibenevolence for you.

@noetic16 no no, esoteric is an English word, even if you bold it, the meaning remains the same.

1. The fundamental liberties of God simply implies that as we debate the existence of a super intelligent being who created the universe, might we also put into consideration the fact that He is intelligent enough to make his own choices and decisions.
<<
@noetic16
including, taking all the atheists to heaven and burning all the Christians.
or ignoring altogether what is the bible, and doing whatever he like right?
you can't claim that you will go to heaven if you believe in God/Jesus/ and do what he wants you to do.
god will do whatever he likes regardless of what you do. he is not bound by any law.
>>

noetic16:

have u ever heard of the HOLY SPIRIT? . . . . .just asking

here wqe go again. Another fancy word. what is the holy spirit?
Who is the holy spirit.

globexl:

here we go again. Another fancy word. what is the holy spirit?
Who is the holy spirit.

The third character in the multiple personality disorder called God.

It is stated in the bible that the esoteric message of jesus was revealed to an elect few of his discliples.Right?
The fundamental question is: From what was christianity built upon? From the wheat or from the shaff? From the esoteric messages revealed to few or from the parables thrown to the unthinking masses?
I think it was built on the latter.
I think, infact, it is self-evident, that about 95% of christians can neither  grasp nor accept the esoteric revelations of Jesus. Therefore , it is very likely that the esotoric teachings of Jesus have been lost forever, or at best, jealously guarded by an elect few, far from the public domain.

The motherchurch, the Catholic church, believes that TRUTH is soooooo precious and soooooo fragile, that it needs to be fiercly protected and defended by a battalion of LIES.

zataxs:

blah blah blah . . . .get off the highway and start making some sense.
<<
@ noetic16 , Christians love acting so "non-Christianly" hahahah, so rude and obnoxious,  you'd wonder who has the holy spirit. hahaah
well, well, I am on the highway,  and what I have said makes perfect sense.

how can one politely tell u the obvious truth that your posts made no sense? .  . ,   , I am sorry to have stepped on a nerve.

>>
When Christ preached . ,  . .His message was contrary to the traditions and expectations of His audience. They were expecting a messiah, but not one from Nazareth, without a physical army and who offers no immediate liberation from the Roman occupiers. Hence His message was ESOTERIC.
<<

well said, @Martian, I repeat,  what you said,  here,  again,  hihih

I see, you mean ,  his message was "confusing to the receipts",   that we already know,  and his intention for doing this is clear
Mark
4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Is that what you think Esoteric means? Christians have a tendency to abandon their dictionaries when their god is involved.

let me make it easy ,for you,  this is a quote from dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/esoteric
1.
understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite: poetry full of esoteric allusions.
2.
belonging to the select few.
3.
private; secret; confidential.
4.
(of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group: the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.

Your opinion is beclouded by your primordial sentiments. . , hence i laff in spanish

1. Contrary to your innuendos, we know that the gospel is simply an invitation to man from God for salvation. QED, nothing more to add. Men have to make a conscious choice and be prepared to face the eternal consequences.

2. through the teachings of Christ we know that there was an invitation already sent out to select men from the foundation of the world. . . . hence we know that no one comes to Him unless He draws them near.

3. Christ promised the HS to those who consciously choose Him. The spirit is said to reveal all things, but only to those the father draws near and have accepted the father . .  .hence the teachings of the HS is exclusively for those with God called Christians. . .hence Christianity is ESOTERIC

4. Thats not rocket science, or is it?

Martian:

The third character in the multiple personality disorder called God.

You said it best

Martian:

And since the message is only for the CALLED, hence ESOTERIC, it implies that if god doesn't "call" you then he created you to ultimately perish for his own amusement because you're not part of the "select few".  A couple billion hindus will roast with me in hell fire because his message is esoteric. Since he is omniscience, he knows this already. That is omnibenevolence for you.

I am sure that just like you, this billion hindus also heard the eternal gospel of JC . , . , .what choices did you all make?

zataxs:

@noetic16 no no, esoteric is an English word, even if you bold it, the meaning remains the same.

I dont recall attempting to change its meaning?

globexl:

here wqe go again. Another fancy word. what is the holy spirit?
Who is the holy spirit.

The active spirit of God that dwells in believers . . , . , , .

Martian:

The third character in the multiple personality disorder called God.

I am bemused by your folly . . .

globexl:

It is stated in the bible that the esoteric message of jesus was revealed to an elect few of his discliples.Right?
The fundamental question is: From what was christianity built upon? From the wheat or from the shaff? From the esoteric messages revealed to few or from the parables thrown to the unthinking masses?
I think it was built on the latter.
I think, infact, it is self-evident, that about 95% of christians can neither  grasp nor accept the esoteric revelations of Jesus. Therefore , it is very likely that the esotoric teachings of Jesus have been lost forever, or at best, jealously guarded by an elect few, far from the public domain.

The motherchurch, the Catholic church, believes that TRUTH is soooooo precious and soooooo fragile, that it needs to be fiercly protected and defended by a battalion of LIES.

I repeat. . , .have you ever heard of the Holy Spirit? . . , . .He reveals the truth to all believers in all generations.

@ neotic16

Active spirit of god that dwells in BELIEVERS? BELIEVERS of what?
You have just indicted yourself! You have confirmed it. The holy spirit dwells in the mind of the believer.
I REST MY CASE.

@noetic16,
understanding it, you claim you know the meaning of "esoteric" yet what you write, clearly shows the opposite is true.

Yes we have all heard of the spirit.
Have we been how mental ill people are bullied by Pastors in the name of impacting this "holy" spirit and chasing a bad one. yes, very regrettable and sad.
very poorly scripted acting by pastors,  they should take some tips from Nollyhood.
Do you have the same spirit as the next Christian? revealing the same things? How comes you all manifest it so differently?

We all know what the holy spirit is,
as @globexl says, it is all the mind. you are your holy spirit. that's why it is so real

noetic16:

I am sure that just like you, this billion hindus also heard the eternal gospel of JC . , . , .what choices did you all make?

I see you said that gleefully. My human sensibilities won't let me rejoice at the impending torture of billions who just happened to have been born in a culture that believes something different than I but a christian like yourself grins madly. I'm sure a lot of christians have heard of hundu beliefs jsut like you asserted that they have heard yours. If you don't accept theirs why should they accept yours? The answer to that is the sense of entitlement based on the idea that you are the apple in the eye of the creator of the universe. A universe that you couldn't even fathom without the aid of science.
You people still think your religion and god define love and you don't even know the meaning of simple compassion.

Again @noetic16:
Active active spirit of god that dwells in BELIEVERS?
BUT THAT IS WHAT HAWKINS AND ALL OTHER ATHIESTs HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG.
ITS ALL DWELLS IN MIND(OR BODY) OF THE BELIEVER.

WHAT ARE THE ARGUMENTS ABOUT, THEN?

globexl:

@ neotic16

Active spirit of god that dwells in BELIEVERS? BELIEVERS of what?
You have just indicted yourself! You have confirmed it. The holy spirit dwells in the mind of the believer.
I REST MY CASE.

what was your case again?

zataxs:

@noetic16,
understanding it,  you claim you know the meaning of "esoteric" yet what you write, clearly shows the opposite is true.

Yes we have all heard of the spirit.
Have we been how mental ill people are bullied by Pastors in the name of impacting this "holy" spirit and chasing a bad one. yes,  very regrettable and sad.
very poorly scripted acting by pastors,  they should take some tips from Nollyhood.
Do you have the same spirit as the next Christian? revealing the same things? How comes you all manifest it so differently?

We all know what the holy spirit is,  
as @globexl says, it is all the mind. you are your holy spirit. that's why it is so real

why bring pastors into the equation? how many people did Jesus harass or bully in the name of the Holy spirit? how many people did the apostles harass or bully?

Martian:

I see you said that gleefully. My human sensibilities won't let me rejoice at the impending torture of billions who just happened to have been born in a culture that believes something different than I but a christian like yourself grins madly. I'm sure a lot of christians have heard of hundu beliefs jsut like you asserted that they have heard yours. If you don't accept theirs why should they accept yours? The answer to that is the sense of entitlement based on the idea that you are the apple in the eye of the creator of the universe. A universe that you couldn't even fathom without the aid of science.
You people still think you know religion and god defineslove is and you don't even know the meaning of compassion. I am better than yout god.

My comment was only for your amusement. . . . .to get clear answers, read the thread on this link, there this subject was well thrashed.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-336988.0.html

globexl:

Again @noetic16:
Active active spirit of god that dwells in BELIEVERS?
BUT THAT IS WHAT HAWKINS AND ALL OTHER ATHIESTs HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG.
ITS ALL DWELLS IN MIND(OR BODY) OF THE BELIEVER.

WHAT ARE THE ARGUMENTS ABOUT, THEN?

Dawkins is an IGNORAMUS . . . .

1. How can he speak of a spirit whose workings he is unaware of. Dawkins refused to debate with physicists who used physics to argue the existence of God. , . Dawkins excuse was that he was a biologist with little understanding of physics. why then is this not applicable to christianity?
why is he talking of a spirit whose workings he has no knowledge of.

2. Dawkins is incompetent even in his own field. He talks about the limited probability of life existing in other planets. He actually asserted that our planet is the only one with an element of life. He was wrong. Through common sense, we know that our understanding and definition of life is limited to the habitual resources on this planet. implying that the definition of life on other planets would vary considerably and would favour other forms of life, that might be presently unknown to us.