KnownUnknown:
Lol.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00070/full

I feel myself moving, or, more accurately, can make myself feel as if I am moving. I know perfectly well that I am not actually moving. There is no duality of body and mind when this happens, not really. In fact, I am hyper-sensitive to my body at that point, because I am concentrating so hard on the sensation of moving. I am the one moving – me – my body. For example, if I ‘spin’ for long enough, I get dizzy. I do not see myself above my body. Rather, my whole body has moved up. I feel it as being above where I know it actually is. I usually also picture myself as moving up in my mind’s eye, but the mind is not substantive. It does not move unless the body does.”

Nlo duplicate body moves out of the body.
Consciousness only expands., That's the true description of OBE.. If you move out of it completely, then death to the physical body


Its only in NDE , consciousness starts to gradually move away.. That's why that one is different

The lady was not having an NDE. That's the difference

Morever the fact she can do it at will proves my point

You pick the one you want to pick and ignored the below. You are not interested in the truth

Consciousness is multidimensional. It can at different places at the same time . I said so before in the Mind and Matter thread. This study confirms that

KnownUnknown:


There is nothing to discuss. I don’t think I or most would dispute that someone had an experience but there is no such thing as “leaving your body”, which is the point of contention. If people were able to do such a thing, you would have presented the proof. And the proof should be very easy. It’s a simple test of leaving your body, going to a particular location, and memorizing certain things that can be confirmed after debriefing. But this will never happen because you can’t leave your body. You can go to China in your dreams but when you wake up you will be on your bed. You can fly like a superhero in your OBE but when you wake up, you are there lying prone in your back. You also claim the brain is not the cause but even the study you cited was focused on the brain.

One doesn’t leave one’s body when having a “SBE” (sleeping body experience aka dreaming) just like one doesn’t leave one’s body when experiencing an OBE, NDE, or whatever experience you want to bring up next.

Triple would remember I drank all the water at the Bar Beach when I had my NDE/OBE, but thinks I drank it with the super cult powers he has no evidence I have.

KnownUnknown:
Lol.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00070/full

I feel myself moving, or, more accurately, can make myself feel as if I am moving. I know perfectly well that I am not actually moving. There is no duality of body and mind when this happens, not really. In fact, I am hyper-sensitive to my body at that point, because I am concentrating so hard on the sensation of moving. I am the one moving – me – my body. For example, if I ‘spin’ for long enough, I get dizzy. I do not see myself above my body. Rather, my whole body has moved up. I feel it as being above where I know it actually is. I usually also picture myself as moving up in my mind’s eye, but the mind is not substantive. It does not move unless the body does.”

What I explained earlier , and you skipped it
There's no duality of mind and body when consciousness is inhabiting a body . But consciousness itself can expand .

You still don't understand what veridical perception is during OBE.,,and it's the reason my explanations are not clear to you

All that you described about dreaming of China has nothing to do with it .

Your dream of China is just mind trave influenced by memories in your mind . And the mind will only make you see and experience what is already stored in it . It's not a real OBE .

In real OBE , for instance , You dream of seeing a perculiar building you have never seen before , either in pictures or in movies .

And when you travel to china and visit that place in your dream ,you saw exactly the same thing .This is confirmation that what you experienced in your dream was real and not your mind or brain creating it

The brain cannot create this kind of experience to make you see anything that's not stored in it already .

. This is what I'm talking about ,and that's the difference betweeen a real OBE with veridical perception and just dream

Hope this is clear now .

In the experiment ,the lady willed herself to have the experience . The brain did not create anything, but only responded to what she was doing .

The brain did not create what she saw from perceiving things outside her body

You need a real OBE experience to fully understand all of this .

Reading about it from me or anywhere , will only make give you an theoritical understanding of the phenomenon ,and you are already displaying that understanding .

Nothing physical leaves the body ,it's consciousness expanding .

KnownUnknown:
Lol.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00070/full

I feel myself moving, or, more accurately, can make myself feel as if I am moving. I know perfectly well that I am not actually moving. There is no duality of body and mind when this happens, not really. In fact, I am hyper-sensitive to my body at that point, because I am concentrating so hard on the sensation of moving. I am the one moving – me – my body. For example, if I ‘spin’ for long enough, I get dizzy. I do not see myself above my body. Rather, my whole body has moved up. I feel it as being above where I know it actually is. I usually also picture myself as moving up in my mind’s eye, but the mind is not substantive. It does not move unless the body does.”

There's no physical movement . You understood her explanation as physical movement, it's simply expansion of consciousness

Modified
Oh oh. I read the article again . The lady experience was not what I thought . It was actually mind stuff . Nothing more. She didn't go anywhere .
But however ,all I talked about the phenomenon is what happens .

I will bring another one .

Sorry fo the mix up

Modified. This is closer to it.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2158244015615919

budaatum:
Found out Amorc UK do open days. I'm going to try to go to one.

It's in my diary but I'm relying on you to remind me on the day and not let me cop out please.

I'd need 2 hours to get there. Start time is 7pm.

Since no one reminded me of this I can say I forgot and cop out. Except that I'm far too curious.

https://maps.app./cbbVNPc7zga544uN8

Will post updates here
https://www.nairaland.com/7762141/theosophical-society-visit#124380595

Cultural complexity: a new epistemological perspective

It deserves a thread but I figured to cultify it for those who use eyes.

triplechoice:


There's no physical movement . You understood her explanation as physical movement, it's simply expansion of consciousness

Modified
Oh oh. I read the article again . The lady experience was not what I thought . It was actually mind stuff . Nothing more. She didn't go anywhere .
But however ,all I talked about the phenomenon is what happens .

I will bring another one .

Sorry fo the mix up

Modified. This is closer to it.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2158244015615919

This is Jargons.
Almost Everything the west know about OBE, Soul travel, Astral projection and related trash traces back to madame blavatsky.

Maynman:

This is Jargons.
Almost Everything the west know about OBE, Soul travel, Astral projection and related trash traces back to madame blavatsky.

Really?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6179873/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

budaatum:



Really?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6179873/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

Yes

Maynman:

Yes

Are OBEs not products of imagination, and were they not being considered before Blavatsky?

budaatum:


Are OBEs not products of imagination, and were they not being considered before Blavatsky?

It was articulately more developed by her and she made it known to the western world.

Maynman:

It was articulately more developed by her and she made it known to the western world.

So, it can be traced further back than her, just not articulated and developed like she made it?

Perhaps it was called something else, or she sold it better?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

budaatum:


So, it can be traced further back than her, just not articulated and developed like she made it?

Perhaps it was called something else, or she sold it better?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

Yes.

budaatum:


If only.

Here's some Aristotle. The APPLE AUDIOBOOK play on oranges.

That's quite an extensive list I a

This might be the first book I 'read' from start to finish this year.

https://hdaudiobooks.com/sapiens-a-brief-history-of-humankind-audiobook/

I suggest the use of the Brave browser, which was introduced to me by a certain basilico who otherwise is a waste of space and time but to whom I owe immense gratitude for introducing me to Brave.