as fugged up as the economy is (for working class citizens that is) I'm glad I'm in the states

I'm selling my British Passport who's in for the bid?

^^^^

Your red p is worth only 10p.

If they Like they can Kill all the immigrants, its only a fool who will plan to settle here in the UK, considering how much other countries have improved, UK is not the S H I T like it used to be, I've got loads of polish drunkards on my streets, they brought the problems, U can come over, make money, and send it to Nigeria where it is safe, and far away from the UK Vultures,

Sorry to say this, UK guys come down here to work with me so y go there to stay. 9ja is better, i rather go for my vac and come back

Now this is really getting serious

Enough of dis uk,europe d exodus has nt yet begun dis countries r complaning, wen shell dril our oil to a stage dat it is only sea water dat can be seen in pipelines n no longer oil, those european countries wil c a tsunami of people, rushing into their countries

UK at it again?

UK and its bloody immigration policy sef. I never liked the flipping country anyway.

debosky:

It's about time it happened. . . .the ability to settle permanently should not be automatic in any country.

As for Tier 1's arguments, the UK will not lose under this policy - if the skilled individuals are such that they still in demand then they will be allowed to remain permanently.

You cannot allow mass migration all in the name of getting skilled workers - the approach needs to be more targeted to meet the country's needs.

How is it an insult? Can the country not set its own terms for individuals to remain permanently? Even in the US or Canada you don't get permanent residence by simply spending a fixed number of years keeping your nose clean.

Yes its an insult because they are targeting the wrong group, they are targeting a group that contributes more to the system, a group with skills the country needs. This is group are not bunch of rapist, criminals, illegal immigrants and terrorist who have used the human right act to remain in the country.

Lol they want the best and the brightest to come and work in the UK then return back home? these brightest and best has never be the UK problems rather they contribute to make UK what is it today. These best and brightest are not so daft and will not come to a country that will not allow them to have a normal family life by being deprived the right to bring their family to live with them while they work here.

The proposal is laughable to say the least, already the present immigration rules has closed all avenues for settlement for most new immigrants so I don't know what this new proposal want to achieve its more like they want to move the goal post again.

What i'm very sure is that very soon the effects of this unattractive immigration rules will result in massive skills shortage esoecially owing to the fact that even at a time when they are preventing foreign workers from coming they are also discouraging british young people going to the University by increasing the uni fees to one of the highest in the western world.

debosky:

It's about time it happened. . . .the ability to settle permanently should not be automatic in any country.

As for Tier 1's arguments, the UK will not lose under this policy - if the skilled individuals are such that they still in demand then they will be allowed to remain permanently.

You cannot allow mass migration all in the name of getting skilled workers - the approach needs to be more targeted to meet the country's needs.

How is it an insult? Can the country not set its own terms for individuals to remain permanently? Even in the US or Canada you don't get permanent residence by simply spending a fixed number of years keeping your nose clean.

Debosky how about skilled workers that get permanent residency in Canada even before they set their foot there? without even contributing one cent to the Canadian economy? this is what happen if you are granted PR under the Federal skills category, provincial nomination program or Quebec selected immigrants (with or without job offer) also what about those who are granted permanent residency in the US via visa lottery? please tell me what have those ones contributed to the US economy? and also Australia and new Zealand are a similar skilled migration program like Canada.

In Canada I am very sure that once you work in a permanent role for one year you're qualified to apply for permanent residency once you score enough points in many other attributes such as language, education and age. So please debosky tell us where you find out that canada don't do this, I'm going to work now so I can't dig out the link but if you check the CIC website its there

Yes any country can set their own terms and that is perfectly acceptable but moving a goal post during the match is what many immigrants will not accept.

when the finally pass this Bill maybe we should all go westminster and shoot em all down then. till then I would pressume not to pass comment

dalebutt1:

when the finally pass this Bill maybe we should all go westminster and shoot em all down then. till then I would pressume not to pass comment

Its still a proposal mate its not a drafted bill yet

I have always said the Home office is a death trap for British Politicians. There seems to be a curse placed on the Home Office that humiliates its Secretaries and destroys their careers. Remember David Blunkett? Remember Jacqui Smith? I read recently of an embarrassing incident at the Home Office. Theresa May might go the same way as her predecessors. Scrapping Permanent Residence Permits for legal immigrants will not solve Britain's economic problems. The Conservative Party is toying with a wild fire that will consume it in the end. David Cameron and his cohorts are thinking up and implementing all kinds of ideas that will lead to the return of the Labour Party to Power during the next elections in Britain. Things seem to be falling apart in the UK as Scotland is planning to have a referendum towards becoming independent. I wonder whether people are talking through their buttocks when they say the UK is too populated Germany has a bigger population more than the UK with a large Turkish and Polish Migrant community.  To be honest, there are too many old people and pensioners in Britain.  Just try and go to Essex ( Beyond Barking and Dagenham ) and you'll be shocked by the number of old people you'll come across in places like Grays, Stifford, Purfleet, Tilbury, South Ockendon etc.

I have been considering moving to Canada for some time now. Canada has different routes that allows immigrants to become Permanent Residents. Besides, Canada is bigger than Britain more than 15 times if not more. To me, the Brits are just myopic. There are more EU Migrants in Britain than Non EU Migrants. Immigrants from Poland, Spain, Romania, Latvia, Bulgaria, Hungary etc come into the UK without visas and they're free to cross the borders easily. Immigrants from Africa and Asia find it very tough to even get Visas to the UK.  So they try to settle in Britain through Work Permits EEA Family Permits and Residence Cards. Education has become more expensive in Britain. I am looking at a brochure of a school I applied for ( Masters Degree ) and the fees are just so high. In Canada, the fees are half of what obtains in the UK. Britons themselves are emigrating to Australia and Canada. Axing the Permamnent Residence Permit will cause a lot of problems for the Home Office including classic court cases and judicial reviews. To me, it seems Asians and Africans are the ones being targeted by the fresh immigration policies coming out of that building in Croydon. I owe UK a lot for some things it has done for me, but Canada seems to be a better option for me and I won't hesitate moving across the Atlantic. I have been researching Canada deeply for some time now.  I'm getting irritated with the attitude of Britons towards immigrants nowadays . Have you also noticed that the UKBA has arrested a lot of illegal immigrants in the last 8 months? People are being deported on a daily basis with more arrests made every hour. I thank God for his favour on me. Cheers.

there is no place like your home, and together we can make our country to become of home we dreamt of,naija government can't do jack,its we citizen can turn things around for ourselves,ppl should be preparing to go back home now.       Its better to be d leg of an elephant than to be d head of an ant.

tunnytox:

Lol[size=26pt][size=26pt][b] they want the best and the brightest to come and work in the UK then return back home?[/b][/size][/size] these brightest and best has never be the UK problems rather they contribute to make UK what is it today. These best and brightest are not so daft and will not come to a country that will not allow them to have a normal family life by being deprived the right to bring their family to live with them while they work here.

The proposal is laughable to say the least, already the present immigration rules has closed all avenues for settlement for most new immigrants so I don't know what this new proposal want to achieve its more like they want to move the goal post again.

What i'm very sure is that very soon the effects of this unattractive immigration rules will result in massive skills shortage esoecially owing to the fact that even at a time when they are preventing foreign workers from coming they are also discouraging british young people going to the University by increasing the uni fees to one of the highest in the western world.

"If someone tells you who they are believe them"- unknown

hahaha
Oyinbo loves chinese food so after the china man cooks chinese food for oyinbo he should go home with nothing at night.
What a selfish statement and his PR team should be given 5 strokes of the cane. As sad as it is thats how this bunch think.
Voting for the liberal party is a mistake that will not be repeating itself, the whole coalition is bull crap, all grammar school boys nodding wisely and speaking foolishly.
Naijas must wisen up and listen up MR. We the best and brightest came to the UK to take and invest back home , of cos we will be and are law abiding but don't you dare think we will build another tower bridge while you enjoy the glory.
You increase fees of kids who no wan school and kept more of them at home, do nothing to teach your kids entrepreneurship.
I admire the old English people they may have been colonial masters but they were daring hustlers and they conquered the world. The new English are unsure and confused and yes their next generation are either being killed in Afghanistan or playing computer games.
Call off the war and stop spending money on ego trips, invest in your next generation : get the kids out of the house, charge Uni fees according to grades, place huge tax on alcohol, encouraging reading, do like M Thatcher and allow benefits reciever to start their business yet be on benefit for a year and give them mentors to teach them, tackle the big co-operations greed to sell everything and kill the mini businesses, allow for a legal black market where people can buy and sell farm produce etc without tax ( it still goes back into the economy) , cut vat and get people spending, most of all tell BBC to stop feeding people with news of lack and getting them to panic and not spend.

If you think immigrants are the problems then i really wonder what you learn in those grammar school and that statement is insensitive and hopefully it will not backlash at you.

Uncle Justwise, i appreciate the level of emotion you are expending in arguing against this intended state policy, are u in anywise affected? recall my views and opinion about relocation and stay in that western part of the world? my views haven't changed and i am yet to be proven wrong. Nevertheless, i appreciate also your frankness in tackling issues. as they say, It is well!!!

justwise:

[/b]

Yes its an insult because they are targeting the wrong group, they are targeting a group that contributes more to the system, a group with skills the country needs. This is group are not bunch of despoiler, criminals, illegal immigrants and terrorist  who have used the human right act to remain in the country.

The amount of illegal immigrants that have entered holes in peckham etc , they are too lazy to fetch those ones out .
The people who have choosen the legal route gets to pay for it,

SAD !

We have all talked about insults, shifting of goal posts, the wrong target etc but have we considered the naturalisation policy (if any) for expats working in Nigeria. All i am driving at is simple; i can chose who i allow into my home and i can lock my door whenever i chose, if you want to leave earlier the better, else you need to abide by my rules. We have lived in a country where aggression is the order of the day and all we have to show for it is B.H, MEND, OPC etc. We need to be rational in our reasoning once a while. If you do not want to abide by the laws of the land by the owners of the land, the door is wide open. The best we can do is to make Nigeria better with our little actions and attitudes and hope it cascades upwards. If UK was filled with death threats, will we be rushing there?

From the Nigerian constitution, Naturalization policy (Section 27 sub section 2)

(g) he has, immediately preceding the date of his application, either-

(i) resided in Nigeria for a continuous period of fifteen years; or

(ii) resided in Nigeria continuously for a period of twelve months, and during the period of twenty years immediately preceding that period of twelve months has resided in Nigeria for periods amounting in the aggregate to not less than fifteen years.

@babowo

there is no place like your home, and together we can make our country to become of home we dreamt of,naija government can't do jack,its we citizen can turn things around for ourselves,ppl should be preparing to go back home now. Its better to be d leg of an elephant than to be d head of an ant.

More grease to your elbow brother. That is the only way we can save Nigeria and redeem her from the shackles of corrupt government officials. We can make our own Home livable, we can turn it into a paradise if we start thinking deeply about it and acting. Our Home(Nigeria) is blessed with abundant resources, both human and natural that can make it one of the greatest in the world, if only we the people can work towards it.


@Redman44

I have always said the Home office is a death trap for British Politicians. There seems to be a curse placed on the Home Office that humiliates its Secretaries and destroys their careers. Remember David Blunkett? Remember Jacqui Smith? I read recently of an embarrassing incident at the Home Office. Theresa May might go the same way as her predecessors. Scrapping Permanent Residence Permits for legal immigrants will not solve Britain's economic problems. The Conservative Party is toying with a wild fire that will consume it in the end. David Cameron and his cohorts are thinking up and implementing all kinds of ideas that will lead to the return of the Labour Party to Power during the next elections in Britain. Things seem to be falling apart in the UK as Scotland is planning to have a referendum towards becoming independent. I wonder whether people are talking through their buttocks when they say the UK is too populated Huh Huh Huh Huh Germany has a bigger population more than the UK with a large Turkish and Polish Migrant community. To be honest, there are too many old people and pensioners in Britain. Just try and go to Essex ( Beyond Barking and Dagenham ) and you'll be shocked by the number of old people you'll come across in places like Grays, Stifford, Purfleet, Tilbury, South Ockendon etc.

I have been considering moving to Canada for some time now. Canada has different routes that allows immigrants to become Permanent Residents. Besides, Canada is bigger than Britain more than 15 times if not more. To me, the Brits are just myopic. There are more EU Migrants in Britain than Non EU Migrants. Immigrants from Poland, Spain, Romania, Latvia, Bulgaria, Hungary etc come into the UK without visas and they're free to cross the borders easily. Immigrants from Africa and Asia find it very tough to even get Visas to the UK. So they try to settle in Britain through Work Permits EEA Family Permits and Residence Cards. Education has become more expensive in Britain. I am looking at a brochure of a school I applied for ( Masters Degree ) and the fees are just so high. In Canada, the fees are half of what obtains in the UK. Britons themselves are emigrating to Australia and Canada. Axing the Permamnent Residence Permit will cause a lot of problems for the Home Office including classic court cases and judicial reviews. To me, it seems Asians and Africans are the ones being targeted by the fresh immigration policies coming out of that building in Croydon. I owe UK a lot for some things it has done for me, but Canada seems to be a better option for me and I won't hesitate moving across the Atlantic. I have been researching Canada deeply for some time now. I'm getting irritated with the attitude of Britons towards immigrants nowadays Sad Sad Sad. Have you also noticed that the UKBA has arrested a lot of illegal immigrants in the last 8 months? People are being deported on a daily basis with more arrests made every hour. I thank God for his favour on me. Cheers.

You make a lot of sense. However, running from one western country to another won't solve the long term problem. Nigerians in diaspora have to start thinking about to use their aquired skills to develop their motherland. Read the history of these western countries, they have always been hostile to immigrants and will continue to be. Infact, Africans and others with darker skin as you pointed out in your post will continue to bear the huge brunt of these policies. They(UK politicians) knows who their targets are. My friend, until we begin to think for ourselves and move towards improving our homeland. We will always be scape goated outside our land.

@justwise

Only those on work permit. Its an insult to pple who have worked hard and kept their nose clean for 5yrs.

Are you outraged? When I told you that your view of your "adopted homeland" was short sighted and highly subjective, you dismissed it as absolute garbage. The reality check is just beginning my Friend. Expect more protectionist policies for the sake of their own. To them, you are just a bloody opportunistic immigrant!

Thanks Shollymata

Isnt it a disgrace that we are here arguing about whether another country's immigration policy is fair or not. It is their country and they can do as they please. In the UAE, you can live there for 100 years if you like, you will never become a citizen. In Nigeria you have to have lived there for 15 years. I wish they werent changing the law as it will affect my family members if it passes but we need to wake up and smell the coffee, It is their country and they can do as they please. they are under no obligation to open their borders to anyone.

I do not envisage many people in foras in countries like Denmark, Canada, Japan discussing this issue. If only we had completely independent regions instead of that contraption called Nigeria and those regions were prosperous, we would not even be discussing this.

Ifecotag

@justwise


Are you outraged? When I told you that your view of your "adopted homeland" was short sighted and highly subjective, you dismissed it as absolute garbage. The reality check is just beginning my Friend. Expect more protectionist policies for the sake of their own. To them, you are just a bloody opportunistic immigrant!

Just don't be ridiculous, if this topic is beyond u just log off. For pple like you every thing is seen as black and white, just read from pple making meaningful contribution and stop making a fool of urself.

This is my last reply to ur silly comments.

It is not a disgrace to debate about immigration policy of a country where you reside, and for those talking about UAE etc people who migrate to UAE have different  goals and objectives compare to those migrating to western countries, they are aware of the rules and it suits them.

And for those talking about coming to Nigeria to develop it, that's rubbish talk how many times have we heard that? Needless to say that most people that say this do not reside outside Nigeria they are merely looking fir people to join them in Nigeria to share their misery with. Pls give me a very good example of how a Nigerian can come back home to develop Nigeria is he going to fix NEPA? Stop corruption? Or even fix the road. How many times have we seen Nigerians coming back home only to be murdered or kidnapped or even frustrated by the corrupt system. Until any of you posters advocating for Nigerians to come back home can give a practical guide on how to do it it's better you for you to keep quiet because you're not making any sense.

horny4u:

The amount of illegal immigrants that have entered holes in peckham etc , they are too lazy to fetch those ones out .
The people who have choosen the legal route gets to pay for it,

SAD !

Oh!! God bless you!! you are in my Xmas card list , this is what i'm talking about.

Yes they should address the issue of immigration, i got no problem with that but why targeting a particular group that contribute meaningfully to the system while giving mansions to some immigrant families who contribute nothing apart sponging on tax payers? Who will contribute to the system for them for feed their aging population and the work-shy citizens who have made a career as benefit claimers?

tunnytox:

Debosky how about skilled workers that get permanent residency in Canada even before they set their foot there? without even contributing one cent to the Canadian economy? this is what happen if you are granted PR under the Federal skills category, provincial nomination program or Quebec selected immigrants (with or without job offer) also what about those who are granted permanent residency in the US via visa lottery? please tell me what have those ones contributed to the US economy? and also Australia and new Zealand are a similar skilled migration program like Canada.

I am quite familiar with those requirements having personally been involved, but that is a completely different case entirely. Canada is a country seeking immigration to boost its population as well as skill base - it faces many skills shortages and is sparsely populated so it is not quite the same as the UK.

The issue is not solely contributing to the economy, but the potential to do so in areas where the local population cannot do so. It makes little sense if the contribution by immigrants displaces the local population and has a net negative benefit on the economy as a whole.

In any case, the UK still offers routes for such 'in demand' skills to be brought into the country - those deemed as necessary for the UK economy will still be allowed in.

In Canada I am very sure that once you work in a permanent role for one year you're qualified to apply for permanent residency once you score enough points in many other attributes such as language, education and age. So please debosky tell us where you find out that canada don't do this, I'm going to work now so I can't dig out the link but if you check the CIC website its there

As you've listed, it is not an automatic permission to remain simply because you've spent 5 years - you need to provide evidence of language skills, ability to maintain yourself via funds and so on. You don't just spend 5 years, your employer is required to confirm your ongoing permanent employment and so on - it's more demanding than the UK system

duduspace:

Seriously, how selfish does that even sound? the family lifes and well being of those people who have contributed to the UK economy doesn't matter? 

Did anyone tell you immigration was a selfless exercise? They want the best people in to fill gaps in their economy - any country not seeking for the best will be overrun by the mediocre. There are enough of those generated internally so they don't need to import any more.

As for family life, as long as you are told you are on a fixed duration visa when you come in, why should you have an automatic right to remain? I have colleagues who work in other countries and once their visa durations expire they are told to leave, no matter what 'family life' or tax contributions that have been made.

even if their tax contributions over those 5 years have contributed to infrastructural development and their NI contributions have gone towards meeting the bill of EU benefit migrants from other EU countries who can walk in and out of the UK as they wish.   

That is just the way things are - no one forced anyone to contribute taxes in the UK to fund EU migrants. If you feel the system is not right for you, you have the right to move elsewhere such that your taxes aren't used on EU migrants.

Debosky
I disagree that the system is more demanding than the UK's the skills requirement,education, age and even financial requirement is easier to meet in Canada compare to the UK. You don't even need proof of funds once you reside in Canada for 1 year. However,I agree with you that both countries have different priorities as per immigration.

tunnytox:

Lol they want the best and the brightest to come and work in the UK then return back home? these brightest and best has never be the UK problems rather they contribute to make UK what is it today. These best and brightest are not so daft and will not come to a country that will not allow them to have a normal family life by being deprived the right to bring their family to live with them while they work here.

This is scaremongering - the policies provide and will continue to provide routes to settlement for the brightest and the best. Even as we speak, even with the quota on work permits being complained about, the quotas have not been exhausted as feared. There is ample room to bring in the best people as needed and this has not changed.

In 2010 alone, 241,000 people applied for settlement - all those people cannot be the 'brightest and the best' - many are getting through legally, but the UK doesn't necessarily need that volume of people - that is what the government is seeking to address.

The proposal is laughable to say the least, already the present immigration rules has closed all avenues for settlement for most new immigrants so I don't know what this new proposal want to achieve its more like they want to move the goal post again.

The system was too lax and prone to abuse and those flaws need to be corrected, both for the UK citizens and those legal immigrants who are affected when people abuse the system. Instead of looking only at the immigrants, what about the already resident population (existing immigrants and citizens) who are suffering from the effects of massive influx of people?

What i'm very sure is that very soon the effects of this unattractive immigration rules will result in massive skills shortage esoecially owing to the fact that even at a time when they are preventing foreign workers from coming they are also discouraging british young people going to the University by increasing the uni fees to one of the highest in the western world.

Don't bet on it - shortage occupation routes will continue to permit companies to brign in skills needed - foreign workers aren't being prevented, the system is simply becoming more selective of those allowed in.

Uni fees 4 times the amount proposed in the UK aren't stopping people going to Uni in the US or South Korea are they? Yet those countries are clearly more advanced technologically than the UK. The UK will need to adapt to changing realities - better management of immigration is just one of the ways of doing that.

tunnytox:

Debosky
I disagree that the system is more demanding than the UK's the skills requirement,education, age and even financial requirement is easier to meet in Canada compare to the UK. You don't even need proof of funds once you reside in Canada for 1 year. However,I agree with you that both countries have different priorities as per immigration.

Even if you reside in Canada, you either need proof of funds or proof of continuous employment (i.e. that your employer intends to retain you long term) before you can apply. As you mentioned, not only are the immigration priorities different, Canada does not have EU immigration to deal with. The UK on the other hand is getting swamped from both directions - both EEA immigration and non-EEA immigration.

Besides if Canada is such an 'easy' option, the current and prospective immigrants can easily switch to that country if they feel disgruntled.

What people need to realise is this - the only lever available to the UK government is to reduce non EEA immigration. Their hands are tied when it comes to EEA immigration (unless they leave the EU, which is not going to happen).

@debosky
Yes Canada is not an easy option but truly if you have the skills they require you'll no problems moving there and just as I stated earlier once you're in the system and you're deemed qualified and employable you'll not require to have any proof of funds to settle in Canada. I'm very sure of this because I have been part of the system. However, as stated earlier Canada have a different immigration priorities so this is understandable.

I empathize with ambitious young Nigerians desirous of improving their quality of life and that of their dependants. However,emmigrating to europe is not the answer. Education is key,one can make it anywhere in the world provided u're educated. My ex-girlfriend's uncle works for WHO as a doctor,he was asked to choose between eritrea,malawi,belize,the US,st.kitts and nevitts and cambodia,he chose eritrea because he wanted to remain in africa and help the down-trodden,he earns the same salary as his counterparts who work for the best hospitals in europe and america,he's next door neighbours with the country's finance minister and the richest people there. My own uncle's also a medical practitioner,he trained in America around 1977 to 1985,upon the completion of his studies,he stayed back in the states till date,though he holds a top position in a reputable medical facility in the US,he went through a divorce which set him back immensely and today he's worse off as compared to his colleagues who returned home and are now CMDs in teaching hospitals of their various states. (he's my favourite uncle though and i adore him). Everywhere you go,uneducated people are always at the bottom of the society,you need to go to places like hackney,dagenham,leyton,plaistow,barking,canning town  et al and see the appalling circumstances under which our Nigerian brothers dwell. Most Nigerians in the diaspora are not qualified for welfare packages of any sort due to the circumstances surrounding their stay in such country. I'm of the opinion that if you cannot make your mark in africa,you cannot make it anywhere else.

For those interested, the UKBA proposals are below:


Key proposals under consideration in the 12 week consultation are as follows:

[list]
[li]re-branding Tier 2 (the skilled worker route) as temporary, ending the assumption that settlement will be available for those who enter on this route;

allowing certain categories of Tier 2 migrant, for example those earning over £150,000 or occupations of a specific economic or social value to the UK, to retain an automatic route to settlement;

creating a new category into which, after three years in the UK, the most exceptional Tier 2 migrants may switch and go on to apply for settlement;

allowing Tier 2 migrants who do not switch into a settlement route to stay for a maximum of five years with the expectation that they and any dependants will leave at the end of that time;

introducing an English language requirement for adult dependants of Tier 2 migrants applying to switch into a route to settlement;
restricting the maximum period of leave for Tier 5 Temporary Workers to 12 months; and

closing or reforming routes for overseas domestic workers.[/li]
[/list]

Damian Green added:

'A small number of exceptional migrants will be able to stay permanently but for the majority, coming here to work will not lead automatically to settlement in the UK.'


'As the Home Secretary announced in February, we intend the settlement reforms will affect those workers who entered economic migration routes under the Immigration Rules in force from 6 April this year and who, under the current system, could have expected to apply for settlement in 2016.'


http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2011/june/12government-migration-proposals