Russian President Vladimir Putin shows a document at an event in St. Petersburg, June 17, 2023. © Pavel Bednyakov / Sputnik
Russian President Vladimir Putin shows a document at an event in St. Petersburg, June 17, 2023.

Simon Ateba( Chief White House Correspondent )
Simon Ateba is Chief White House Correspondent for Today News Africa covering President Joe Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris, U.S. government, UN, IMF, World Bank and other financial and international institutions in Washington and New York.

Russian President Vladimir Putin unveiled previously undisclosed details of a draft treaty on Ukrainian neutrality during a meeting with African leaders in Saint Petersburg on Saturday.

The African leaders’ delegation, which included representatives from Senegal, Egypt, Zambia, Uganda, Congo Republic, Comoros, and South Africa had visited Kyiv Friday before arriving in Saint Petersburg.

South African President Cyril Ramaphosa presented a 10-point roadmap for de-escalating the conflict, urging both sides to work towards a resolution, although the first point was just to listen.

The African leaders were on a peace-building mission, and Putin took the opportunity to showcase the documents that emerged from peace negotiations between Moscow and Kyiv in March 2022. However, he said that the Ukrainian delegation abruptly abandoned the agreed-upon terms after signing them.

Putin showcased the draft documents, which had been under discussion between Russian and Ukrainian representatives over a year ago in Turkey. One of the documents, titled the “Treaty on the Permanent Neutrality and Security Guarantees for Ukraine,” had been signed by the Ukrainian delegation. The treaty aimed to establish “permanent neutrality” in Ukraine’s Constitution, with Russia, the US, Britain, China, and France listed as guarantors.

Putin also presented an addendum outlining proposals from both Russia and Ukraine regarding the size and equipment of Ukraine’s standing army during peacetime. Moscow proposed capping the number of military personnel at 85,000 and the National Guard members at 15,000, while Kyiv suggested maintaining up to 250,000 troops in its Armed Forces.

The draft further detailed the suggested numbers of tanks, armored vehicles, multiple rocket launchers, combat aircraft, and “auxiliary” aircraft, with Moscow advocating for more conservative figures and Kyiv aiming for higher numbers.

The peace negotiations collapsed in the spring of 2022 following accusations by Ukrainian officials that Russian troops had killed civilians in several small cities near Kyiv. These allegations emerged after Russian soldiers had withdrawn from areas outside the Ukrainian capital as a goodwill gesture. The Kremlin consistently denied involvement in any atrocities in Ukraine.
During the meeting, Putin blamed Ukraine for sabotaging the negotiations, accusing Ukrainian authorities of disregarding their commitments. He expressed concerns about the lack of guarantees for future agreements but emphasized Russia’s willingness to continue negotiations despite the setbacks.

Kyiv, however, reiterated its position that negotiations could only commence once Russia surrendered Crimea, which voted to join Russia in 2014, along with four other regions that followed suit in referendums held in September 2022.
Putin argued that Russia’s acquisition of these territories adhered to international law and the UN Charter, citing the need to protect the people of Donbas, who opposed the 2014 coup in Kyiv.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4_jmslkcbw

Oga, Putin l like your way. Keep exposing these Neo-nazis . Sooner or later Ukraine will surrender to your terms and know they were deceived by the west and her allies

Which foolish peace deal? After invading a sovereign nation killing civilian's including little children, rained bomb's on their cities, destroyed critical infrastructure you now want them to sign peace deal for what? Ukraine will fight till the last man drop dead. NATO has a surprise package for you sir

fuckingAyaya:
Which foolish peace deal? After invading a sovereign nation killing civilian's including little children, rained bomb's on their cities, destroyed critical infrastructure you now want them to sign peace deal for what? Ukraine will fight till the last man drop dead. NATO has a surprise package for you sir

And So?
Which of the things you mentioned that EU US UK NATO has not done in multiple fold....did you hold them to account?
Na people like you deceive Zelensky to make him feel he can take on Russia....even powerful NATO would dare not.
You think Putin doesn't know that? He does.
First he firmly established Russia in Abkhaz and south Ossetia in Georgia. The west and EU shouted ....nothing happened.
After the Orange revolution....Putin made a move for Crimea...he got it. The west were mum
Then he knew if he made a more daring move they still won't do anything so he made his move for Ukraine.....at a time of great economic and energy uncertainties it is in the best interest of UN NATO and US to avoid direct confrontation with Russia.....and Russian knew this. Years of sanctions have made Russia self reliant and has energy security so it can call the bluff of the west and increasingly more countries are calling their bluff

[quote author=fuckingAyaya post=124364533]Which foolish peace deal? After invading a sovereign nation killing civilian's including little children, rained bomb's on their cities, destroyed critical infrastructure you now want them to sign peace deal for what? Ukraine will fight till the last man drop dead. NATO has a surprise package for you sir quote]]

He has already seen the limit of NATO's surprise package, the stanctions which he had absorbed and NATO not having the caurage to move their forces against Russia.

Rolings:


And So?
Which of the things you mentioned that EU US UK NATO has not done in multiple fold....did you hold them to account?
Na people like you deceive Zelensky to make him feel he can take on Russia....even powerful NATO would dare not.
You think Putin doesn't know that? He does.
First he firmly established Russia in Abkhaz and south Ossetia in Georgia. The west and EU shouted ....nothing happened.
After the Orange revolution....Putin made a move for Crimea...he got it. The west were mum
Then he knew if he made a more daring move they still won't do anything so he made his move for Ukraine.....at a time of great economic and energy uncertainties it is in the best interest of UN NATO and US to avoid direct confrontation with Russia.....and Russian knew this. Years of sanctions have made Russia self reliant and has energy security so it can call the bluff of the west and increasingly more countries are calling their bluff

So? if you are angry at NATO, USA, UK, why are u supporting Putin when he is doing the exact same thing?

are u stupid? Russia invaded a sovereign nation, Zelensky did not invade Russia meaning he has the right to defend his country and russia is not self-reliant, dont say what you dont know

Datguy5:


So? if you are angry at NATO, USA, UK, why are u supporting Putin when he is doing the exact same thing?

are u stupid? Russia invaded a sovereign nation, Zelensky did not invade Russia meaning he has the right to defend his country and russia is not self-reliant, dont say what you dont know

Your position is a result of closemindedness, without seeing the bigger picture, and can only come from a mind that has been defeated via ideologies and black-and-white thinking (eg Putin Bad, Ukraine good).

Fun fact. The territories the US and Nato occupy in Syria as I speak to you right now, are larger than the territory Russia occupies in Ukraine. Because your darling CNN does not air US occupation in Syria 24/7 as they did with Ukraine doesn't mean it's not happening.

And most importantly, war is just the violent version of politics. Politics is civility, while war is the jungle law of strength versus weakness. If you are in politics with a stronger opponent, you make sure not to make it descend to war, because there are no rules there. It's straight butchery.

Since Ukraine refused all diplomatic channels for peace (e,g refusing the Minsk agreement, refusing to stop killing the Donbas people, refusing to give them autonomy, and canceling the Russian language from the constitution, to name a few), then the law of the jungle will apply.

Ukraine could easily be one of the wealthiest countries in Europe, since its a crossroad between the East (Russia) and the West. But their leaders are so stupid, they decide to take sides. Also, your darling US doesn't have to fight a war to destroy nations.

With the USD, they can cause untold hardships on countries globally, steal their foreign reserves, and sponsor revolution. Now a question for you. Name me one country the US intervened with their democracy bullshit, that is not a failed state. I wait.

pansophist:


Your position is a result of closemindedness, without seeing the bigger picture, and can only come from a mind that has been defeated via ideologies and black-and-white thinking (eg Putin Bad, Ukraine good).

Fun fact. The territories the US and Nato occupy in Syria as I speak to you right now, are larger than the territory Russia occupies in Ukraine. Because your darling CNN does not air US occupation in Syria 24/7 as they did with Ukraine doesn't mean it's not happening.

And most importantly, war is just the violent version of politics. Politics is civility, while war is the jungle law of strength versus weakness. If you are in politics with a stronger opponent, you make sure not to make it descend to war, because there are no rules there. It's straight butchery.

Since Ukraine refused all diplomatic channels for peace (e,g refusing the Minsk agreement, refusing to stop killing the Donbas people, refusing to give them autonomy, and canceling the Russian language from the constitution, to name a few), then the law of the jungle will apply.

Ukraine could easily be one of the wealthiest countries in Europe, since its a crossroad between the East (Russia) and the West. But their leaders are so stupid, they decide to take sides. Also, your darling US doesn't have to fight a war to destroy nations.

With the USD, they can cause untold hardships on countries globally, steal their foreign reserves, and sponsor revolution. Now a question for you. Name me one country the US intervened with their democracy bullshit, that is not a failed state. I wait.

That us dollar hegemony is just toooo much for 1 country to have.
It is an unfair advantage to all other countries.
I don't even know how other countries agreed to this Draconia hedge over them and it is the main reason US is fighting tooth and nail using Ukraine to maintain that hedge because without it, they won't be able to regularly printing money they never had and using it to produce weapons, sponsor coups and crisis etc
How can a country maintain close to 1000 military camps around the world? That is insane. It can only be done if you are the one printing your money and people accepting it.
If Nigeria is to support Ukraine today with finance, they will have to first convert whatever naira we have into dollars before giving it to Ukraine because Ukraine won't accept naira since they won't be able to buy any weapons with it at international market but the US and EU can go into their own room and print tons to give Ukraine.
Nigeria government would have to sell tangible things like oil, settle domestic problems and whatever is left part giving to Ukraine. That is a very hard process and with such process in place, we can hardly invade any country or create wars or claim any external land since we are not financially stable to do that.
Another hedge is, it only takes US and EU to go into their room, print cash to buy up our own commodities like cocoa, oil etc since we will accept their own currencies but they won't accept ours. So we will need to work 3 or 4 times harder to get money to convert to dollars or euro to buy their own things like electronics, cars etc
Who does that? What an unfair advantage

emmaodet:


That us dollar hegemony is just toooo much for 1 country to have.
It is an unfair advantage to all other countries.
I don't even know how other countries agreed to this Draconia hedge over them and it is the main reason US is fighting tooth and nail using Ukraine to maintain that hedge because without it, they won't be able to regularly printing money they never had and using it to produce weapons, sponsor coups and crisis etc
How can a country maintain close to 1000 military camps around the world? That is insane. It can only be done if you are the one printing your money and people accepting it.
If Nigeria is to support Ukraine today with finance, they will have to first convert whatever naira we have into dollars before giving it to Ukraine because Ukraine won't accept naira since they won't be able to buy any weapons with it at international market but the US and EU can go into their own room and print tons to give Ukraine.
Nigeria government would have to sell tangible things like oil, settle domestic problems and whatever is left part giving to Ukraine. That is a very hard process and with such process in place, we can hardly invade any country or create wars or claim any external land since we are not financially stable to do that.
Another hedge is, it only takes US and EU to go into their room, print cash to buy up our own commodities like cocoa, oil etc since we will accept their own currencies but they won't accept ours. So we will need to work 3 or 4 times harder to get money to convert to dollars or euro to buy their own things like electronics, cars etc
Who does that? What an unfair advantage

Destruction is the easiest thing in the world. It takes nothing. You can buy a private jet worth 500M usd, and with a lighter, I will burn it. Lighter is less than 500 Naira.

So no worry,I give the USD this decade max, it won't have the power it once had, and currently had. Over recent history, the US landed itself in a spot that has never happened before, which is, they were the only strong power after the second world war.

China was so backward, the Soviets defeated the Nazis and lost over 20M men, then soviet union disintegrated in 1991, Japan has been nuked, and surrendered as a pacifist nation, and the UK, France, and Germany were broken due to war and being bankrolled by the US (marshall plan),

Colonies all around the world declared independence due to the weakness of their colonial masters after ww2, so just the US could call the shot. Then for the first time in recent history, they tried unipolar.

The dollar then took over pounds as the world reserve currency after the Bretton Woods agreement, then the US designed the international system in its own image, and became so forking wealthy because of it.

All the international organizations were established by the US, and the world was forced to abide by these rules. SO from WTO, ICC, World Bank, ICJ, UN, UNESCO, and so forth. All in the hands of the West.

The US became so powerful, like an earthly God. They can decide to create a country out of nowhere since they controlled all the international institutions. Panama was broken from Colombia (to Punish Colombia), Kosovo was broken from Serbia, Mexican territory was annexed, same as Hawaii,

Then global bombing spree, and no one toput them in check since the whole world were weak and playing catch up. Th west have reached the promised land. Global trade in USD, and the US had the largest world economy.

AND THEY FORKED UP.

They abused that position, and the world saw firsthand what was at stake in a unipolar world. Of course, all through the process, the US know that it will not last, and it was their foreign policy to prevent any power capable of challenging, talk more of displacing it as a hegemon.

Their strategy to make this happen is to make sure they place military bases in regions where power could rise. So Yugoslavia was destroyed, and Kosovo has the bond steel base, to prevent resurgence.

Germany and Japan, two superpower countries that gave the Soviets a tough time, became vassals, with the US having at least a hundred military bases in each. With US soldiers answerable only to Washington, and not the host countries.

Meanwhile, China was designated as a global factory, where they should just manufacture shoes and clothes for their cheap labor, permanently. But China has a different plan for its destiny.

They were coming, and coming really big. All through the years, the US did everything possible to destroy China. From the false Uighur genocide to Tibet to trying to break Xinxiang away, Tiananmen propaganda, to Hong Kong, and now Taiwan.

But China who are master strategists, an over 5000 years old civilisation has seen all the tricks and dodged them all. They were patient until they grew really stronger, and said, ENOUGH.

I don tire to type. Just be vigilant. We are living in an interesting time. The disintegration of the hegemon. The question is, will the US accepts it defeat and go down peacefully? We shall see.

pansophist:


Destruction is the easiest thing in the world. It takes nothing. You can buy a private jet worth 500M usd, and with a lighter, I will burn it. Lighter is less than 500 Naira.

So no worry,I give the USD this decade max, it won't have the power it once had, and currently had. Over recent history, the US landed itself in a spot that has never happened before, which is, they were the only strong power after the second world war.

China was so backward, the Soviets defeated the Nazis and lost over 20M men, then soviet union disintegrated in 1991, Japan has been nuked, and surrendered as a pacifist nation, and the UK, France, and Germany were broken due to war and being bankrolled by the US (marshall plan),

Colonies all around the world declared independence due to the weakness of their colonial masters after ww2, so just the US could call the shot. Then for the first time in recent history, they tried unipolar.

The dollar then took over pounds as the world reserve currency after the Bretton Woods agreement, then the US designed the international system in its own image, and became so forking wealthy because of it.

All the international organizations were established by the US, and the world was forced to abide by these rules. SO from WTO, ICC, World Bank, ICJ, UN, UNESCO, and so forth. All in the hands of the West.

The US became so powerful, like an earthly God. They can decide to create a country out of nowhere since they controlled all the international institutions. Panama was broken from Colombia (to Punish Colombia), Kosovo was broken from Serbia, Mexican territory was annexed, same as Hawaii,

Then global bombing spree, and no one toput them in check since the whole world were weak and playing catch up. Th west have reached the promised land. Global trade in USD, and the US had the largest world economy.

AND THEY FORKED UP.

They abused that position, and the world saw firsthand what was at stake in a unipolar world. Of course, all through the process, the US know that it will not last, and it was their foreign policy to prevent any power capable of challenging, talk more of displacing it as a hegemon.

Their strategy to make this happen is to make sure they place military bases in regions where power could rise. So Yugoslavia was destroyed, and Kosovo has the bond steel base, to prevent resurgence.

Germany and Japan, two superpower countries that gave the Soviets a tough time, became vassals, with the US having at least a hundred military bases in each. With US soldiers answerable only to Washington, and not the host countries.

Meanwhile, China was designated as a global factory, where they should just manufacture shoes and clothes for their cheap labor, permanently. But China has a different plan for its destiny.

They were coming, and coming really big. All through the years, the US did everything possible to destroy China. From the false Uighur genocide to Tibet to trying to break Xinxiang away, Tiananmen propaganda, to Hong Kong, and now Taiwan.

But China who are master strategists, an over 5000 years old civilisation has seen all the tricks and dodged them all. They were patient until they grew really stronger, and said, ENOUGH.

I don tire to type. Just be vigilant. We are living in an interesting time. The disintegration of the hegemon. The question is, will the US accepts it defeat and go down peacefully? We shall see.

Even old lions would put up a fight before being defeated. USA will not go down without a fight. At least they're putting up one. One good thing I like about the Chinese is their silence. Look at how they reached agreement with Cuba to set up military base there and USA did not see it coming. Since then, USA have backed down from their Taiwan shenanigan.

pansophist:


Destruction is the easiest thing in the world. It takes nothing. You can buy a private jet worth 500M usd, and with a lighter, I will burn it. Lighter is less than 500 Naira.

So no worry,I give the USD this decade max, it won't have the power it once had, and currently had. Over recent history, the US landed itself in a spot that has never happened before, which is, they were the only strong power after the second world war.

China was so backward, the Soviets defeated the Nazis and lost over 20M men, then soviet union disintegrated in 1991, Japan has been nuked, and surrendered as a pacifist nation, and the UK, France, and Germany were broken due to war and being bankrolled by the US (marshall plan),

Colonies all around the world declared independence due to the weakness of their colonial masters after ww2, so just the US could call the shot. Then for the first time in recent history, they tried unipolar.

The dollar then took over pounds as the world reserve currency after the Bretton Woods agreement, then the US designed the international system in its own image, and became so forking wealthy because of it.

All the international organizations were established by the US, and the world was forced to abide by these rules. SO from WTO, ICC, World Bank, ICJ, UN, UNESCO, and so forth. All in the hands of the West.

The US became so powerful, like an earthly God. They can decide to create a country out of nowhere since they controlled all the international institutions. Panama was broken from Colombia (to Punish Colombia), Kosovo was broken from Serbia, Mexican territory was annexed, same as Hawaii,

We shall see.

This aside.
I am having this feeling that even if all countries are to start afresh again, Africa will still remain backward.
It is just as if we derive joy seeing our people suffering.
I had a stopover at Kinshasa, Congo DRC 4 days back and I couldn't shed tears.
This is the second biggest country in Africa and richest country in Africa resource wise, half population of Nigeria 100m and more than twice land mass of Nigeria.
Good agricultural landmass without deserts etc yet ranks among the poorest in the world.
There international airport can't even compete with Calabar airport, not as busy as PH airport despite been international and wide spread poverty.
They have oil, diamonds etc yet extremely poor.
Does it mean African leaders derive joy seeing their own people poor?
Is this caused by US too? And it's institutions like WTO, WB, UN etc?
Why are we like this? How can someone be sooooo wicked that they are not even wise enough to build a standard airport and make their capital beautiful because these are the 2 main things a stranger will see to summarize the country.
I don't need to go around Nigeria but he 2 most important things strangers coming to Nigeria will see are the airport and country's capital.
So why DR congo is so unconcerned about this and looting with impunity amazes me

pansophist:


Your position is a result of closemindedness, without seeing the bigger picture, and can only come from a mind that has been defeated via ideologies and black-and-white thinking (eg Putin Bad, Ukraine good).

Fun fact. The territories the US and Nato occupy in Syria as I speak to you right now, are larger than the territory Russia occupies in Ukraine. Because your darling CNN does not air US occupation in Syria 24/7 as they did with Ukraine doesn't mean it's not happening.

And most importantly, war is just the violent version of politics. Politics is civility, while war is the jungle law of strength versus weakness. If you are in politics with a stronger opponent, you make sure not to make it descend to war, because there are no rules there. It's straight butchery.

Since Ukraine refused all diplomatic channels for peace (e,g refusing the Minsk agreement, refusing to stop killing the Donbas people, refusing to give them autonomy, and canceling the Russian language from the constitution, to name a few), then the law of the jungle will apply.

Ukraine could easily be one of the wealthiest countries in Europe, since its a crossroad between the East (Russia) and the West. But their leaders are so stupid, they decide to take sides. Also, your darling US doesn't have to fight a war to destroy nations.

With the USD, they can cause untold hardships on countries globally, steal their foreign reserves, and sponsor revolution. Now a question for you. Name me one country the US intervened with their democracy bullshit, that is not a failed state. I wait.

And you missed my point, the US is not a saint and I never praised it but why are you supporting Russia doing the exact same thing as the US and then criticizing the US for it? all you are doing here is Whataboutism.

but let me debunk your nonsense

Ukraine did not break the Minsk treaty, it fell apart because it was a complete mess, Secondly, there is no evidence to suggest that the Donbas people were being targeted (https://theconversation.com/putins-claims-that-ukraine-is-committing-genocide-are-baseless-but-not-unprecedented-177511) and finally, Ukraine is a sovereign country, it has the right to remove any language it sees fit

emmaodet:


This aside.
I am having this feeling that even if all countries are to start afresh again, Africa will still remain backward.
It is just as if we derive joy seeing our people suffering.
I had a stopover at Kinshasa, Congo DRC 4 days back and I couldn't shed tears.
This is the second biggest country in Africa and richest country in Africa resource wise, half population of Nigeria 100m and more than twice land mass of Nigeria.
Good agricultural landmass without deserts etc yet ranks among the poorest in the world.
There international airport can't even compete with Calabar airport, not as busy as PH airport despite been international and wide spread poverty.
They have oil, diamonds etc yet extremely poor.
Does it mean African leaders derive joy seeing their own people poor?
Is this caused by US too? And it's institutions like WTO, WB, UN etc?
Why are we like this? How can someone be sooooo wicked that they are not even wise enough to build a standard airport and make their capital beautiful because these are the 2 main things a stranger will see to summarize the country.
I don't need to go around Nigeria but he 2 most important things strangers coming to Nigeria will see are the airport and country's capital.
So why DR congo is so unconcerned about this and looting with impunity amazes me

Africa's problem or the black man I would say is not lack of intelligence or lack of the ability to create. Reason being because there are so many societies today that are not known for creativity or inventions but they've successfully able to copy and replicate it to their countries: UAE, Malaysia, Singapore and the likes.

Selfishness!

It all comes down to selfishness. Will elaborate more on this.

Raalsalghul:


Africa's problem or the black man I would say is not lack of intelligence or lack of the ability to create. Reason being because there are so many societies today that are not known for creativity or inventions but they've successfully able to copy and replicate it to their countries: UAE, Malaysia, Singapore and the likes.

Selfishness!

It all comes down to selfishness. Will elaborate more on this.

Please do. I will be eager to read it.

It is just so annoying.
They can't give the excuse of population because we have it more than them. They can't give excuse of land because they are the second largest after Algeria.
They can't give excuse of resources because they are the richest resource wise in Africa.
Infact, the west regard them as the new Saudi of modern electric cars because 90% of resources used in electric car batteries comes from there so they are going to be the modern Saudi where mining will be taking place for world economy yet, a certified first class shit hole.
Tahhhhhh!!!!!!
Na who do Africa like this.

pansophist:


ter the second world war.


But China who are master strategists, an over 5000 years old civilisation has seen all the tricks and dodged them all. They were patient until they grew really stronger, and said, ENOUGH.

I don tire to type. Just be vigilant. We are living in an interesting time. The disintegration of the hegemon. The question is, will the US accepts it defeat and go down peacefully? We shall see.

Sure, it will end in a decade or two. China just needs to maintain GDP growth of 4%, increase her diversity of import and export dependent countries, punish those who belittle her, seek to amend frosty relationships between warring sides, don't interfere in internal conflicts of countries etc. Basically, just keep doing what she has been doing.

Within two months, James Damon of JP Morgan, Anthony Blinken, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Janet Yellen, John Kerry and now, Henry Kissenger have visited the Chinese. You know what it means when such people from one country visit their arch-rival, not the other way round. China should keep the support behind Putin, and contribute as usual towards the industrialisation of sub-Saharan African countries.

To illustrate what it means to align with the Chinese: Geely is investing $10BN in Malaysia to produce EVs. Meanwhile, Phillippines changed her president who now aligns with the US and gets a military base. Tell me, to a developing country and even a developed country, which would you rather prefer, a factory or a military base? Under the previous president, Phillippines increased bananas exports to China. Now, the Chinese are importing more bananas from Ecuador and Indonesia. I really hope African countries realise China is a force for good rather than bad.

Here: The Chinese tell Kissenger that China cannot be contained or encircle. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/19/china-bejing-henry-kissenger-visit-us-diplomat/#comment

In China I trust.

emmaodet:


This aside.
I am having this feeling that even if all countries are to start afresh again, Africa will still remain backward.
It is just as if we derive joy seeing our people suffering.
I had a stopover at Kinshasa, Congo DRC 4 days back and I couldn't shed tears.
This is the second biggest country in Africa and richest country in Africa resource wise, half population of Nigeria 100m and more than twice land mass of Nigeria.
Good agricultural landmass without deserts etc yet ranks among the poorest in the world.
There international airport can't even compete with Calabar airport, not as busy as PH airport despite been international and wide spread poverty.
They have oil, diamonds etc yet extremely poor.
Does it mean African leaders derive joy seeing their own people poor?
Is this caused by US too? And it's institutions like WTO, WB, UN etc?
Why are we like this? How can someone be sooooo wicked that they are not even wise enough to build a standard airport and make their capital beautiful because these are the 2 main things a stranger will see to summarize the country.
I don't need to go around Nigeria but he 2 most important things strangers coming to Nigeria will see are the airport and country's capital.
So why DR congo is so unconcerned about this and looting with impunity amazes me

Congo recently sold all it's natural resources to china and the UAE for pennies. That country is filled with low IQ beasts . People think Nigeria is worst till they visit other African countries

Datguy5:


And you missed my point, the US is not a saint and I never praised it but why are you supporting Russia doing the exact same thing as the US and then criticizing the US for it? all you are doing here is Whataboutism.

but let me debunk your nonsense

Ukraine did not break the Minsk treaty, it fell apart because it was a complete mess, Secondly, there is no evidence to suggest that the Donbas people were being targeted (https://theconversation.com/putins-claims-that-ukraine-is-committing-genocide-are-baseless-but-not-unprecedented-177511) and finally, Ukraine is a sovereign country, it has the right to remove any language it sees fit

In your attempt to make sense, you made no sense at all.

Russia is NOT doing the same thing I accuse the US of, It is an established principle of international law that countries have the right to defense deterrence, and Russia entering Ukraine is an exercise of such rights.

Now if you believe the Western propaganda machine which describes the war as an unprovoked, unjustified, and expansionist war, then I can understand why you are comparing Russia's invasion with US hegemonic wars.

I REPEAT. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

If you noticed, most countries didn't side with the West, also all the Western sanctions are unilateral, and against international law. Based on the established UN principles of war resolutions, sanctions have to be agreed upon by all countries.

You accused me of whataboutism? Lol. That's a stupid argument. People that use the term whataboutism are hypocrites who wants to silence others, hence they use such a term. So I should just shut up and ignore Western crime because bringing it up would be whataboutism?

NONSENSE. Whatboutism is nothing but a ploy to silence accountability.

And to your last paragraph. NO. Ukraine cant silence or delete the Russian language from its constitutions. Russians are citizens of Ukraine in the millions, and cultural genocide is against UN law.

As tiny as Belgium is, German is also an official language of Belgium even if they are a maximum of 7% of the population. Same in Finland, Swedish finns are about 5% of the population and they have an official language.

But Ukrainin-Russians are over 12 million people, about 25% of the Ukrainian population. That's the population of Finland and Sweden combined. And you come here to tell me that Ukraine can just delete it because they can do what they like?

ARE YOU MAD? ARE YOU NORMAL?

Please use your brain and stop writing nonsense. Sometimes I wonder if you guys defending Western evil hegemonic empire have sense. The kind of evil you guys defend shocks my soul. Are you paid? If yes, are such a cheap man? smh

emmaodet:


This aside.
I am having this feeling that even if all countries are to start afresh again, Africa will still remain backward.
It is just as if we derive joy seeing our people suffering.
I had a stopover at Kinshasa, Congo DRC 4 days back and I couldn't shed tears.
This is the second biggest country in Africa and richest country in Africa resource wise, half population of Nigeria 100m and more than twice land mass of Nigeria.
Good agricultural landmass without deserts etc yet ranks among the poorest in the world.
There international airport can't even compete with Calabar airport, not as busy as PH airport despite been international and wide spread poverty.
They have oil, diamonds etc yet extremely poor.
Does it mean African leaders derive joy seeing their own people poor?
Is this caused by US too? And it's institutions like WTO, WB, UN etc?
Why are we like this? How can someone be sooooo wicked that they are not even wise enough to build a standard airport and make their capital beautiful because these are the 2 main things a stranger will see to summarize the country.
I don't need to go around Nigeria but he 2 most important things strangers coming to Nigeria will see are the airport and country's capital.
So why DR congo is so unconcerned about this and looting with impunity amazes me

I fear the same thing, man. I have been thinking about this a lot, but I am too overly optimistic that I just believe that if the good stay in power for at least two generations, the evil African leaders and the current generations that are so corrupt will die off, and we start afresh.

I dont want to believe that this rot is genetic. China was called the sick man of Asia, and seen as the dog just 80 years ago until Mao changed everything and the world now respects China.

If Africans are succeding exceptionally abroad, then it can happen. We also have to be aware that the state of Africa is imposed, and the international-led order will only tolerate a weak, divided, servile Africa, and only such leaders will be allowed to be in power.

So right now, as far as the world order remains intact, I do not believe that Africa will see the light. The reason why the West is not trying to fight Nigeria with maybe the Benin Republic as a puppet is because Nigeria is a colony, as simple as that. If the devil is not troubling you, then you are a sinner. The devil only goes for the righteous and tempts them.

Regex:


Even old lions would put up a fight before being defeated. USA will not go down without a fight. At least they're putting up one. One good thing I like about the Chinese is their silence. Look at how they reached agreement with Cuba to set up military base there and USA did not see it coming. Since then, USA have backed down from their Taiwan shenanigan.

In as much as the fight is not nuking, then I have nothing to worry about. The US has lost, it's as simple as that. From diplomacy, technology, economy, politic, big money, everything. And their reputation is a stumbling block. Outside the west, no one likes them.

They only fear, not love the US. The US doesn't have friends, it has vassals (whom they call allies). A slave is not a friend to a slave owner, because a slave has no power. Calling a slave an ally doesn't change their slave status.

An example of the slave status of let's say Germany is how the US can blow up the NS2 pipeline, and Germany did nothing. In fact, just mention the blow-up in the German parliament, and you will hear total silence.

Or Japan when the US destroyed their economy with the Plaza Accord, and have 100s of military bases in their territory, but Japan can't do anything. Japan was even nuked twice, but they still love their master.

For example, Russia dare not blow up Chinese pipelines (or vice versa), because China and Russia are true friends. Friends can have issues, but to offend a friend like blowing their infrastructure and he did nothing is not friendship, it's a master-slave relationship.

China and the Russians understand this power dynamics. After the US is kicked off as the sole superpower and made completely irrelevant just like the UK and France after ww2, then all their vassals will align with China and free themselves from the US.

Now these vassals can't change camps because the alternative is not fully established. They are scared and don't want to face the wrath of the US. Politics is a very dirty game.

It's not a coincidence that lots of countries now are standing up and talking back to the West. It is because alternatives like China gave them such power. Crocodiles will not attack baby hippos if the mother is there, but as soon as the mother is not there, it may kill it.

So the countries standing up to the US and campaigning to dump the US is because China and Russia are strong now. If the West does anything stupid, they change camp instantly. Politics is nothing more than the law of the jungle, if you see it like that, everything becomes clear.

pansophist:


I fear the same thing, man. I have been thinking about this a lot, but I am too overly optimistic that I just believe that if the good stay in power for at least two generations, the evil African leaders and the current generations that are so corrupt will die off, and we start afresh.

I dont want to believe that this rot is genetic. China was called the sick man of Asia, and seen as the dog just 80 years ago until Mao changed everything and the world now respects China.

If Africans are succeding exceptionally abroad, then it can happen. We also have to be aware that the state of Africa is imposed, and the international-led order will only tolerate a weak, divided, servile Africa, and only such leaders will be allowed to be in power.

So right now, as far as the world order remains intact, I do not believe that Africa will see the light. The reason why the West is not trying to fight Nigeria with maybe the Benin Republic as a puppet is because Nigeria is a colony, as simple as that. If the devil is not troubling you, then you are a sinner. The devil only goes for the righteous and tempts them.

Hmmmmmmmmm

Your last paragraph touched me

tensazangetsu20:


Congo recently sold all it's natural resources to china and the UAE for pennies. That country is filled with low IQ beasts . People think Nigeria is worst till they visit other African countries

My brother.... The thing tire me sef.
Congo is meant to be richer than Nigeria by all standard but here they are, a messed up shit hole country.
I mean there airport is not as beautiful as asaba airport and the traffic is less than PH airport. The citizens have Soo been shackled down by poverty.
I guess African leaders fear a burgeoning middle class and well fed citizens that will always standup for their rights, so the best way to subdue them is with Vast poverty, mass illiteracy etc

tensazangetsu20:


Congo recently sold all it's natural resources to china and the UAE for pennies. That country is filled with low IQ beasts . People think Nigeria is worst till they visit other African countries

Check this out too.
As at independence 1960, they were the second most developed country in Africa.
That means the white left them a good and functioning country but what can the black man do? Turn it back into shit hole they know how to do.

emmaodet:


Check this out too.
As at independence 1960, they were the second most developed country in Africa.
That means the white left them a good and functioning country but what can the black man do? Turn it back into shit hole they know how to do.

Lol I have made peace with the fact that Africa as a continent is never gonna make It. The funny thing is that we don't even know how backward we are. African countries should not be tamed developing countries in anyway. So Nigeria and Brazil and mexico are both developing countries and dey the same level . What kind of play is that?

tensazangetsu20:


Lol I have made peace with the fact that Africa as a continent is never gonna make It. The funny thing is that we don't even know how backward we are. African countries should not be tamed developing countries in anyway. So Nigeria and Brazil and mexico are both developing countries and dey the same level . What kind of play is that?

emmaodet:

Brazilians are complaining that their economy is not growing but as of 1998 their economy was 800 billion usd in GDP. It's now a 2 trillion dollar economy. Mexico was 300 billion usd in GDP it's now a 1.2 trillion dollar economy. We don't even know the size of the Nigerian economy but inwardly I know that the Nigerian economy must have shrinked by at least 30 percent since 2020 and at least 50 percent since 2015. It's only in Africa everyone reminisces about the past and how they are better than the present.

tensazangetsu20:


Brazilians are complaining that their economy is not growing but as of 1998 their economy was 800 billion usd in GDP. It's now a 2 trillion dollar economy. Mexico was 300 billion usd in GDP it's now a 1.2 trillion dollar economy. We don't even know the size of the Nigerian economy but inwardly I know that the Nigerian economy must have shrinked by at least 30 percent since 2020 and at least 50 percent since 2015. It's only in Africa everyone reminisces about the past and how they are better than the present.

Hmmmmmmm

May God help us

pansophist:


In your attempt to make sense, you made no sense at all.

Russia is NOT doing the same thing I accuse the US of, It is an established principle of international law that countries have the right to defense deterrence, and Russia entering Ukraine is an exercise of such rights.

Now if you believe the Western propaganda machine which describes the war as an unprovoked, unjustified, and expansionist war, then I can understand why you are comparing Russia's invasion with US hegemonic wars.

I REPEAT. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

If you noticed, most countries didn't side with the West, also all the Western sanctions are unilateral, and against international law. Based on the established UN principles of war resolutions, sanctions have to be agreed upon by all countries.

You accused me of whataboutism? Lol. That's a stupid argument. People that use the term whataboutism are hypocrites who wants to silence others, hence they use such a term. So I should just shut up and ignore Western crime because bringing it up would be whataboutism?

NONSENSE. Whatboutism is nothing but a ploy to silence accountability.

And to your last paragraph. NO. Ukraine cant silence or delete the Russian language from its constitutions. Russians are citizens of Ukraine in the millions, and cultural genocide is against UN law.

As tiny as Belgium is, German is also an official language of Belgium even if they are a maximum of 7% of the population. Same in Finland, Swedish finns are about 5% of the population and they have an official language.

But Ukrainin-Russians are over 12 million people, about 25% of the Ukrainian population. That's the population of Finland and Sweden combined. And you come here to tell me that Ukraine can just delete it because they can do what they like?

ARE YOU MAD? ARE YOU NORMAL?

Please use your brain and stop writing nonsense. Sometimes I wonder if you guys defending Western evil hegemonic empire have sense. The kind of evil you guys defend shocks my soul. Are you paid? If yes, are such a cheap man? smh

1. The Russian invasion does NOT classify as defense deterrence, and I dare you to provide any evidence in the international law that states otherwise, stop saying things you don't know, it makes you look stupid

2. why are they not the same thing? Russia is simply looking to conquer the former soviet union states, (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/10/11/russia-shouldnt-negotiate-with-vassal-ukraine-ex-president-medvedev-says-a75263) Zelenskyy tried to talk with Putin, Putin refused and even East Romanian analyst Vladimir Socor(https://jamestown.org/program/putins-crimea-speech-a-manifesto-of-greater-russia-irredentism/) noted that Putin's war speech was imperialistic, and aren't you listening to Russian propaganda based on your logic?

Here is more evidence to back up my claim (https://snyder.substack.com/p/how-to-think-about-war-in-ukraine), (https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putins-new-ukraine-essay-reflects-imperial-ambitions/)

3. that is not how it works, the only reason that the Global South is supporting Russia is because of the USA's awful foreign policies nothing more, we have nothing in common with Russia and as someone who travels, Russians are very racist

4. and people who try to use Whataboutism are people who don't have a reasonable argument, the USA's imperialistic wars are awful and bad, and i agree but it doesn't change or affect the argument at hand at all

5. Do you even know what you are talking about? Removing a language from the Constitution does not mean cultural genocide dumbass, Nigeria does not have several Nigerian languages in its constitution but does that mean that we are now genociding those cultures?

Datguy5:


1. The Russian invasion does NOT classify as defense deterrence, and I dare you to provide any evidence in the international law that states otherwise, stop saying things you don't know, it makes you look stupid

2. why are they not the same thing? Russia is simply looking to conquer the former soviet union states, (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/10/11/russia-shouldnt-negotiate-with-vassal-ukraine-ex-president-medvedev-says-a75263) Zelenskyy tried to talk with Putin, Putin refused and even East Romanian analyst Vladimir Socor(https://jamestown.org/program/putins-crimea-speech-a-manifesto-of-greater-russia-irredentism/) noted that Putin's war speech was imperialistic, and aren't you listening to Russian propaganda based on your logic?

Here is more evidence to back up my claim (https://snyder.substack.com/p/how-to-think-about-war-in-ukraine), (https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putins-new-ukraine-essay-reflects-imperial-ambitions/)

3. that is not how it works, the only reason that the Global South is supporting Russia is because of the USA's awful foreign policies nothing more, we have nothing in common with Russia and as someone who travels, Russians are very racist

4. and people who try to use Whataboutism are people who don't have a reasonable argument, the USA's imperialistic wars are awful and bad, and I agree but it doesn't change or affect the argument at hand at all

5. Do you even know what you are talking about? Removing a language from the Constitution does not mean cultural genocide dumbass, Nigeria does not have several Nigerian languages in its constitution but does that mean that we are now genociding those cultures?

Article 51 of the UN charter says and I quote,

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.

The above is the legal justification for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

And again, No, Russia is not looking to conquer former soviet union states. Those are Western propaganda. Now show me a single act of aggression of Russia against former soviet union states before the western sponsored maiden coup in 2014. Just one.

And I do not agree with you that Russia is very racist. I am not sure if you have been there, but Russia is one of the few places I felt very safe and respected. You can search on youtube yourself about Africans living in Russia, they say it all the time.

There are lots of nairalanders that live in Russia and talk about what it means to be a black man there. Tochi is one, a link to his profile is below. By the way, I know him personally.

https://www.nairaland.com/tochiphotos

If you learn the language, respect their culture, and be a good person, you will love Russia. There are black politicians in Russia. Russia has forgiven lots of national debt to African countries. The West hasn't done any of that.

Russia helped lots of African countries gain independence, saved SA from Apartheid, and educated lots of our people for free, so they could go back and destroy colonialism.

Food for thought. Is it after Russia got nukes, that most African countries were given independence. Do you think it was a coincidence?

And again Yes, it is cultural genocide If you have over 12 million citizens and you just remove their language which they use every day from the constitution, In Kharkiv for example (I have been there as well), they majorly speak Russian there.

Children go to school and learn in their native tongue Russian, banks, tv, everything is in Russian and suddenly, they can't use their native tongue officially anymore. They are forced to use Ukrainian, how can that be allowed? I am honestly thinking if you are normal.

It is like Igbo unilaterally deleted from Nigeria's official languages by the north, how can that not be considered as a cultural genocide? the UN supports my position.

Declaration on the Rights of Persons Belonging to National or Ethnic, Religious and Linguistic Minorities has been adopted by the UN General Assembly on 18 December 1992, without a vote, by resolution No. 47/135.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/declaration-rights-persons-belonging-national-or-ethnic

Article 4.3 specifically states and I quote.

States should take appropriate measures so that, wherever possible, persons belonging to minorities may have adequate opportunities to learn their mother tongue or to have instruction in their mother tongue

So with the above in mind, how can Ukraine just unilaterally turn against its own citizens and prevent them from officially interacting with the authorities in their native language? How can you defend this? Once again, are you okay?

Don't forget the questions I asked you. Hopefully, you don write more nonsense.

pansophist:





Article 51 of the UN charter says and I quote,

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.

The above is the legal justification for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

And again, No, Russia is not looking to conquer former soviet union states. Those are Western propaganda. Now show me a single act of aggression of Russia against former soviet union states before the western sponsored maiden coup in 2014. Just one.

And I do not agree with you that Russia is very racist. I am not sure if you have been there, but Russia is one of the few places I felt very safe and respected. You can search on youtube yourself about Africans living in Russia, they say it all the time.

There are lots of nairalanders that live in Russia and talk about what it means to be a black man there. Tochi is one, a link to his profile is below. By the way, I know him personally.

https://www.nairaland.com/tochiphotos

If you learn the language, respect their culture, and be a good person, you will love Russia. There are black politicians in Russia. Russia has forgiven lots of national debt to African countries. The West hasn't done any of that.

Russia helped lots of African countries gain independence, saved SA from Apartheid, and educated lots of our people for free, so they could go back and destroy colonialism.

Food for thought. Is it after Russia got nukes, that most African countries were given independence. Do you think it was a coincidence?

And again Yes, it is cultural genocide If you have over 12 million citizens and you just remove their language which they use every day from the constitution, In Kharkiv for example (I have been there as well), they majorly speak Russian there.

Children go to school and learn in their native tongue Russian, banks, tv, everything is in Russian and suddenly, they can't use their native tongue officially anymore. They are forced to use Ukrainian, how can that be allowed? I am honestly thinking if you are normal.

It is like Igbo unilaterally deleted from Nigeria's official languages by the north, how can that not be considered as a cultural genocide? the UN supports my position.

Declaration on the Rights of Persons Belonging to National or Ethnic, Religious and Linguistic Minorities has been adopted by the UN General Assembly on 18 December 1992, without a vote, by resolution No. 47/135.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/declaration-rights-persons-belonging-national-or-ethnic

Article 4.3 specifically states and I quote.

States should take appropriate measures so that, wherever possible, persons belonging to minorities may have adequate opportunities to learn their mother tongue or to have instruction in their mother tongue

So with the above in mind, how can Ukraine just unilaterally turn against its own citizens and prevent them from officially interacting with the authorities in their native language? How can you defend this? Once again, are you okay?

Don't forget the questions I asked you. Hopefully, you don write more nonsense.

1. Can you read at all? how can that UN rule apply when Russia invaded Ukraine first and is the aggressor? Are you stupid? the sheer confidence you have in writing nonsense is amazing

2. yes, Russia has made several aggressive actions against its former Soviet countries https://natoassociation.ca/a-timeline-of-russian-aggression/

3. maybe i might have met the bad ones and the West has black politicians too, so what is your point?

4. Actually, it is far more complicated, but the short of it is that due to the World wars colonialism was falling out of favor fast and both the USA and Russia hated colonialism, and both played a part in African countries, Russia had very little to do with the ending of apartheid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_South_Africa_during_apartheid#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20also%20provided%20diplomatic,Africa's%20isolation%20from%20international%20society.) but i do agree that Russia educated a lot of Africans but they only did that to extend the influence of communism nothing more

5. Russia getting Nukes had next to no impact on colonialism whatsoever, so yes it is a coincidence

6. that does not mean the Russian language was banned you dumbass, hell it was a protected language (Still, all the minority languages (including Russian) remain explicitly protected under Article 10 of the Ukrainian Constitution. The repeal would also bring back into force the previous law on languages, which was in place in Ukraine for 23 years before July 2012 and was regulating the use of minority languages. Source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine#Attempted_repeal_of_the_law )

My guy, don't patronize me, i am not one of those idiots that doesnt know how to research and back up their claims