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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. (80734 Views)
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by JuanDeDios: 7:03am On Sep 23, 2023 |
Rossikk:Hmm. The Benin Empire had slaves. Did not enslave Bini people - this is largely true. But they did have igbon (slaves). Lots of them. |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Obi1kenobi(m): 12:16pm On Sep 23, 2023 |
Rossikk: Do you have a source for the emboldened claim? Cos through West African history, the Benin Kingdom were pretty well-noted, prolific enslavers and slave dealers (many Edoid people today are almost proud of that fact when they insult other tribes as having been enslaved by them)? It seems you're deflecting from that by making unrelated claims about Egypt - which you claim to be a Eurocentric lie (in your typically paranoid conspiracies) even though the scholarly consensus of Western archaeologists was critical in busting the myth that the pyramids weren't actually built by slaves. 2 Likes |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Rossikk(m): 6:01pm On Sep 23, 2023 |
ogbe88: It was PRECISELY because the Benin Kingdom was “on its own” that the British could brazenly invade, destroy, and burn down the place. If Benin was part of a ‘Nigeria’ at the time, or better yet an African federation at the time, the British would have been repelled. In fact they wouldn’t even have dared to invade. You people need to realise that your tribalism and ethnic parochialism is a WEAKNESS, not a strength. It is DUMB and makes you vulnerable to external forces who capitalise on your fragmentation. Think like China. India. Brazil. They have numerous languages and ethnic groups there too. But they realised that the bigger you are the better, and came together. That is the ONLY WAY you can confront and checkmate the external forces targeting your continental resources. Even today, France can bully a small nation like Togo, Gabon, and even place their troops on ground there, as they do. Can any country try that in Nigeria? No. Why? Because you are a massive country with 220 million people and a large, powerful military capable of defending your territorial integrity. Today they invite Nigeria to G20 meeting, BRICS meeting, G70 meeting…. every meeting, they invite us to sit at the table, even when we are not official members, where they are discussing world affairs. Do you see them inviting Togo? Sierra Leone? Ghana? Senegal? When you break up into your stupid little tribal republics, who will even know or care about your new names, never mind inviting you to BRICS meeting or G20? Do you see anybody calling South Sudan for anything? As an African country, smallness makes you irrelevant in the international community. Your job will be to TAKE ORDERS from resolutions reached at those meetings by the likes of India, Brazil, China, US and EU. The bigger you are, the better. You have NO CHOICE but to end tribalism. 3 Likes |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Rossikk(m): 7:03pm On Sep 23, 2023 |
Odibembem: You claim to have schooled in Uniben, yet you reason like a school dropout. YOU don’t know anything about the Benin wall. The dimensions and descriptions given here were made by international researchers and scientists who have visited and measured the dimensions of the structure with helicopters and expensive, modern equipment, including satellite technology, when you were still sucking breast, or even before you were born. Your job, if you had a working brain, is to return to the city and fill the gaps in your knowledge presented by the research findings, not to dispute them because of the little section YOU saw while walking to your classroom or beer parlour. 1 Like |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Rossikk(m): 7:30pm On Sep 23, 2023 |
JuanDeDios: Study the history properly, as there are some gaps in your knowledge. The British forced Christianity unto Nigerians using economic blackmail. When they seized our land, they also seized the means of access to the resources of our land by implication. So the way to prosper came to be by acquiring a western education in a missionary school. To be accepted into the missionary school you had to abandon your traditional religion and get baptised, and become a Christian. And you were giving a new name like Samuel or Michael or Josiah. Many people including the wealthy chiefs had no choice but to send their kids to the colonial schools if they were to progress in the new dispensation, and THAT was how Christianity came to be enthroned - through economic blackmail. |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Odibembem: 9:13pm On Sep 23, 2023 |
Rossikk: I lived and worked in Benin for 11 years besides d years I spent in Uniben as a student. No axis of Benin I don't know. I have friends and family in Benin and I visit d city at least once every month. Where exactly are d ruins of this phantom wall? Have u ever lived in Benin? If so u should tell me yourself where d ruins are. I was on ground in Benin,some dreamer-writer is telling u he used helicopter and satellite to locate d walls, are helicopters sharper than eyes on ground? Hear u talking of helicopter and satellite as if Benin is an inaccessible jungle like d Amazon. I can tell u that u don't need helicopter to access anywhere in Benin City, u have no idea of d city, simple. What rubbish and infantile thought process. Why not interview d custodians of Benin history and archives themselves, go to d Palace Chiefs, go to d Edebiris, d Osuans, d Isekhures and ask them if Benin had these phantom walls. The leading authority in Benin ancient history was Jacob Egharevba, he wrote a comprehensive book on Benin history, he is d undisputed authority. No where in d book did he mention anything about Benin wall. Have u read d book? Visit Chief Osuan at Vegetable Mkt, he is d custodian and holder of d keys to d shrines of d Oba, their family came with Oranmiyan from Ife, he is an a good position to tell u if those walks existed, his family meticulously keeps records. It is not remotely in your place to have this discussion with me. As far as Benin issues are concerned, u are 'igbon'. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by MamaletASO: 9:43pm On Sep 23, 2023 |
Rossikk: I share your view... But this can only be achieved if Nigeria is allow to along the line of language for proper understand, development, unity and progress... But with the present Nigeria arrangement, nothing of such can be done..because Naija no be country but a geographical location mapped together
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Rossikk(m): 10:27pm On Sep 23, 2023 |
Odibembem: You are an utter ignoramus. Go on GOOGLE EARTH, you blasted dunce. TYPE 'BENIN WALL' into GOOGLE EARTH. Do you know what GOOGLE EARTH is? ACTUAL Photographs of the land. The rampart can be EASILY IDENTIFIED by the vegetation covering it. Blasted illiterate. You think coming here to drop names of people you've never spoken to in your life or asked any questions of, and who themselves are probably ignorant of the scale of the edifice, will impress anyone here? The wall goes FAR beyond Benin city, and is a KINGDOM RAMPART. Oh sure, scientists and researchers in Europe, America, journalists, etc just decided ''we are so bored, so let us invent this monster wall in Benin city which never existed, just to titillate ourselves.''. Go on GOOGLE EARTH and quit being an embarrassment to whatever you school you claim to have attended. |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 11:13pm On Sep 23, 2023 |
Your hatred of Benin is clouding your judgement. Only traces of Benin defensive walls still exist today, the British leveled those walls in the war of 1897 which opposed Benin empire to the British empire. So asking to see the walls today is a little bit strange, like asking to speak to a dead man which you also ask for when telling people to go and speak to egherevba. By the way, contrary to your claim, egherevba was not in anyway "the leading authority" in Benin history, actually egherevba is just a man who wrote stories for his PhD in university of Ibadan, he called his stories: short history of Benin. But he seems to not have known how to actually conduct historical research, he just put a bunch of stories with no substantiation, his stories were oriented towards a pro-yoruba perspective which was very well received by his Yoruba university (mystery solved). You also do not seem to understand how history is researched, you seem to think all you need is to quote a person who has the same views as you and then hype that person as "the leading authority", therefore making your argument like a word from the gospel. History is researched through eye-witness written documents! All the Europeans who visited the capital of Benin empire/kingdom (the capital is Benin city), talk about the walls, you see: eyewitness written records. It is also strange that you think these infos can be found on archives even though, our ancestors didn't have a written form of language! You clearly have a learning disability. You don't understand the concept of time, I see many Nigerians with this mental disability. Odibembem: |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 11:14pm On Sep 23, 2023 |
Precolonial map of Africa. By Emanuel Bowen. You can spot Benin kingdom on it. Notice that Benin Kingdom was around the same size as Nigeria (It actually kind of looks bigger than Nigeria). Benin was a great kingdom, Benin bronzes didn't happen by accident. 2 Likes
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Odibembem: 6:07am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Stoplying: My friend think, use your head and think. The pyramids of Egypt were constructed 4000 years ago, they suffered pillage and vandalization for 3000 years yet their ruins are still there for anyone to see. The ruins of d Incas cities in Peru over 500 years old don't need a satellite or helicopter to see, they are still there for d naked eyes. U say the walls of Benin were felled by d British in 1897, that's just about 125 years ago yet zero sign of them. Did d British carry their army with bombs and dynamites all around Benin blasting d walls? If they were as majestic as d great walls of China with d length u are claiming, how reasonable for a 19th century army to effectively bring down such a wall without any trace of rubble just 125 years later? Look, there is Legend, there is Myth and there is Fable. This is 100% fable, even worse than that of Arualan who used to use palm trees as broom to sweep and as chewing stick and Iyenugholo his witch doctor. BTW Arualan's statue is adorned in Ring Road with a tree in his hands in a sweeping position, u can also argue that he aactually was a historical reality and used palm trees to sweep. What Benin has is d great Moat, not Walls. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Odibembem: 6:17am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Rossikk: U rely on Google Earth, an app fed info by people u don't know, I rely on eye witness, myself being d most credible. I don't need to drop names, out of d names I mentioned, I knew two very personally and discussed ancient Benin history with them. U said d British felled d walls 125 yes ago and today zero sign or evidence. Yet d Pyramids of Egypt 4000 years old are still there after so many years of plunder. Peru and Mexico still have d ruins of d Incas and Aztecs after over 500 years despite how d Spanish plundered and annahilated them for years. A small British expedition that didn't last a few days totally erazed a so called wall more majestic and longer than d wall of China. When u tell stories to people, learn to differentiate Fables from Myths and Legends. This one is 100% fable, no such wall ever existed. When u want to embellish or lie, at least do it with some dignity, your children are watching u and they will ask questions 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 8:15am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Odibembem:It is tiring talking to fools who believe they have cracked the code of human knowledge. Things disappear over time, some things don't, it is as simple as that. The British destroyed the walls of Benin in 1897, not just with bombs and fire, but also by destroying Benin empire which had the duty of maintaining the wall. Obviously I'm not an architect, nor an archaeologist, but the latter have been complaining that Nigeria was failing it's duty to maintain the wall leading to it fading away. Picture of some Benin city walls taken in 1897. This is what Ringroad looked like in 1897. These walls are also similar with the defensive walls of Benin city, walls which were observed by European visitors right from the 1400's and whose trace were still noticed by archeologists. But yeah the likes of you think it is all a conspiracy, even though we are talking about a thing which was written about by eyewitnesses since the 1400's (hundreds of years of people witnessing it and writing about it) and even today, archeologists write about it. You of course have cracked the code of human knowledge.
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Rossikk(m): 8:29am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Odibembem: You have no brain. You are thick. Yeah. Google fed false information into the ‘Google App’ to give us a fake image. Google also conspired with the Guinness Book of Records who first reported the wall in1974, 40 years before Google came into existence. You clearly have mental issues. You’re not well. |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 8:56am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Structures of Benin city which no longer exist: Thank God the photograph had been invented before 1897, if not these African jealous conspiracy theorists would stick to their conspiracy theory.
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by ogbe88(m): 8:56am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Rossikk:U still made no sense. |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 9:05am On Sep 24, 2023 |
You see, to the dumb hater, whatever is claimed to have existed in the past, must also exist today, otherwise it was a fable. This is just the manifestation of stupidity and the lack of understanding of the notion of time, things change with time, empires rise and fall, architecture does the same. All you need to do is look at the history of the Americas. There are s few instances of European explorers writing down their findings and then hundreds of years later, other European explorers come to the same location and find nothing. You see they believed at that time (the time of the explorers who came hundreds of years later) that the earlier European explorers were lying, that is because they like some Nigerians didn't understand the concept of time, archaeologists of our era have proven the earlier explorers to be truthful. Things disappear over time in 1000 years, almost nothing of what you see in Nigeria today will still be part of the landscape. 1 Like |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 9:10am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Rossikk: Benin kingdom was bigger than Nigeria. What are you talking about. The British had the maxim guns, and other military tools which us Africans didn't have, that is how they defeated us, the only country in Africa which defeated the European colonisers was Ethiopia which had access to the same military technology as the Europeans thanks to Russia.
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 9:14am On Sep 24, 2023 |
I don't know why most Nigerian adults are extremely bad with history and confuse basic things which 15 year olds in Europe master perfectly: Benin city is not Benin kingdom, it is only the capital of the kingdom. I keep having to say this to Nigerians who don't seem to know the most basic thing.
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 9:22am On Sep 24, 2023 |
I believe this is s picture of a part of the wall, this structure no longer exists today in this shape. Nigeria failed to do what Benin empire had been doing for hundreds of years: maintain the structure. 1 Like
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 9:26am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Again, Ringroad 1897, this no longer exists today. Thanks to God pictures of it were taken, if not the African conspiracy theorist would be saying it is a fable. 1 Like
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 9:28am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Before photography was invented: drawing of Benin city by European explorers. 1 Like
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 9:31am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Picture of an imperial palace roof (Benin city, 1897). 2 Likes
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 9:37am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Some more Benin architecture. 1 Like
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 9:46am On Sep 24, 2023 |
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/mar/18/story-of-cities-5-benin-city-edo-nigeria-mighty-medieval-capital-lost-without-trace Now ask yourself why all these obvious things which I have shown are not fully understood by Nigerian adults who believe that if a structure doesn't exist today, and it is claimed to have existed in the past, then it is nothing but a fable. History, my friends, is not about what exists today, it is about what existed in the past and which was written down (in one form or the other) by eyewitnesses. (Yet the average Nigerian believes he can access things which happened 300 years ago by just stepping outside his home and talking to people whom are alive today and somehow "witnessed" what happened 300 years ago, the average Nigerian also doesn't understand that our people didn't have a written form of language and that the one we have today was given to us by Europeans. The average Nigerian doesn't even understand that Nigeria was created by the British, he thinks the British met a Nigerian president during colonisation...If you went to school in Nigeria, then please be aware that your level in history is below that of an European teenager. Seriously educate yourself with the knowledge that you are extremely bad at history) 1 Like
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by JuanDeDios: 10:52am On Sep 24, 2023 |
Rossikk:It's generally true that coercive persuasion sometimes was used for conversion. But I'm unconvinced that was the greatest factor - the bandwagon effect was. This is certainly true for the SE where 98-99% converted to Christianity in many places. While kids who went to missionary-built schools were often required to practice Christianity WHILE IN SCHOOL, this was not enforced beyond school compound and no such requirements were made on their parents and other relatives. No chief needed to convert to Christianity so his kids could go to school. Oba Ovonramwen, while in exile, did not convert to Christianity yet some of his kids went to school and one or two were ordained as Christian ministers in Benin City. If conversion was a requirement for Western education, Western education won't have thrived side by side with Islam and traditional religions in Yorubaland. When I was a kid, traditional practices and Christianity both thrived in my village. Christian boys did not take part in traditional initiation ceremonies, yet more than 2/3 of the boys in my community went for those initiations - because the influence of tradition was stronger than that of Christianity. But go to my village today - hardly anyone goes for those initiations. My friend went for a second burial in his village and came back to tell me of his shock that the eldest man in his community offered the traditional prayer and ended it with "In Jeeeezus' name" and everyone chorused "Aaaaamen". When I was a kid, our culture in my village was still alive and well - Christianity or not. Between when I was a kid and now, what happened? Oyinbos? No. A great shift took place in the IBB era and our people turned en-mass to a viral version of Pentecostalism. It has become the orthodoxy almost everywhere and here we are. We did this. |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 2:23pm On Sep 24, 2023 |
A view of Benin city 1897 2 Likes
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Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Rossikk(m): 2:30pm On Sep 24, 2023 |
Stoplying: Benin kingdom was absolutely NOT bigger than Nigeria in 1897 when she was invaded. That map you are showing is from centuries earlier, before the slave trade, possibly. A lot had changed in the region by 1897, and many regions had broken away from Benin hegemony. 1 Like |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Rossikk(m): 2:33pm On Sep 24, 2023 |
ogbe88: Because your skull is too thick for intelligence. 1 Like |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Rossikk(m): 2:43pm On Sep 24, 2023 |
JuanDeDios: Fair enough. But it all started with the economic blackmail by the British, in insisting that new entrants to their schools had to drop their traditional religion and get baptised. The bandwagon effect can be compared to the speed of a tyre increasing as you roll it downhill. The BRITISH started the rolling. |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by Stoplying: 2:46pm On Sep 24, 2023 |
Rossikk:As I came with a map, I expect you to do the same instead of telling me a story. The map is from the 18th century, I have more recent maps as well. In 1897 a lot of Benin land had already been colonised by the British (e.g Lagos) but that only means the colonisation started earlier than 1897. |
Re: Our Ancestors Built This Wall 600 Years Ago. Today We Would Pay CHINA To Do It. by JuanDeDios: 2:51pm On Sep 24, 2023 |
Rossikk:I agree with bolded. We should have stood up to it though. The Europeans had it worse: I mean, when Europe was "Christianized", EVERYONE complied, you had to fall in or nothing. The same is true of places where Islam took over. This seems to be the nature of these two desert religions. But today, the Europeans have "received sense" - as we say here - and secularism is marching on strong. I hope our people too get there some day. With the coming of the Internet and the sharpness of them Gen-Z, there's hope. 1 Like |
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