Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by tpia5: 3:32am On Oct 20, 2011 |
^^i just checked that verse as well, and it seems that was actually done to the people who later prayed that prayer. verse 8 of psalm 137: Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction, they were asking for vengeance. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Jiah011(f): 4:05am On Oct 20, 2011 |
mydreamz: This response explains it all! We are not fighting with the flesh, but rather our fight is spiritual! If someone uses the Bible to tear down someone, even someone who is wrong, rather than address the underlying spiritual conflict, then this is a misuse of God's Word. The Bible says: Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord (Rom. 12:9). It's God's place to handle the evil one and difficult people in our life. As Christians we are to love our enemies and hate the evil one. He is the one we do battle with, not our fellow man. This is where many people get it wrong, especially Nigerians. So quick to call down Holy ghost fire, without knowing the real significance. People can get so much insight by reading the Word and asking the Holy Spirit to give them understanding and wisdom in the context of the Word. Context is so important!!!!! |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by TayoD1(m): 4:23am On Oct 20, 2011 |
@TOH, Why exactly is this in the Bible?]Why exactly is this in the Bible?This is the simplest question you asked. The answer is simply found in 2Tim 3:16 - "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Psalm 109 and like chapters clearly illustrates some doctrines in the Bible. I cant possibly be the only one who finds this Psalm disturbing, right? Bible about love, turning the cheek, forgiveness shouldnt have words like Psalm 109I do not find the Psalm disturbing at all because I understand the nature of sin and its consequence. The Bible clearly teaches that a "curse causeless shall not come". The recipients of that curse clearly brought it upon themselves. There is one other thing that you left out of what the Bible is about, and that is justice. Remember that the scriptures say that God must first be just before he can become a justifier. Forgiveness and mercy may be freely given but they come at a price. Every sin that God has forgiven or overlooked in times past came at a price to a sacrificial lamb. Those who do not receive forgiveness and mercy have clearly belittled or ignored the covering that is available to them through that sacrifice. The cursees of Psalm 109 have clearly come to the point where they have totally ignored the forgiveness that is available through that blood. David was inspired to proclaim curses (which is a consequent of sin) upon the cursees. Psalm 109 is clearly a proclamation of judgment based upon past sins. We also have the power to do same thing today, even though many have abused that privilege. I believe it must take an inspiration by the Holy Ghost to determine who should be cursed and not the regular retaliation that people do today by cursing every enemy. God is not a Babalawo that curses people because we seek his services. It must be the other way round. Some ask, where do I find this in the NT? Well check out what Jesus says in John 20:23 - Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. Retaining someone's sins is basically inviting a curse (consequences of their sins) upon them. I don't believe John20:23 is to be applied lightly or subject to our whims. This must be inspired by the Holy Ghost who knows the heart of men and can tell who is a son of perdition destined for hell. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by rareman(m): 5:05am On Oct 20, 2011 |
I think toba has done justice to this thread, if u notice David was just being real to himself and to God, though on the surface he was laying true foundation of what love is all about (by not harming God's anointed) there is nothing bad about the psalm u see in life there comes a time when u be real to urself and ur God not wasting emotions just speel as it is. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Nobody: 5:40am On Oct 20, 2011 |
I have seen people who have gone through hell and suffering use that prayer, you only have to wear half the shoe to know why they did it and are still doing it. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by ThiefOfHearts(f): 5:49am On Oct 20, 2011 |
TayoD, thanks for your own interpretation My thing is would YOU ever use such Psalms as a "prayer" especially against "enemies"? How come people use the hatred of 109 as opposed to following these words? "Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head"  Like I already said I understand why it was done during David's time, however these days I find it highly unnecessary and contrary to the teachings of Jesus that Christians are supposed to follow. Only a psychotic wiitch would feel normal reading that. Seriously. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Jiah011(f): 6:05am On Oct 20, 2011 |
ThiefOfHearts: Have you ever heard the saying "killing someone with kindness"? Imagine someone who really didn't like you, and did things to try to make you fall and all you did was smile at them and do nice things for them. The person that's angry with you would be so annoyed. The Bible says to bless those that curse, and in doing so, you are right with God and the person who sinned against you and curse you is in the wrong. This gives a way for God to deal with the person's evil heart, hence the "coals of fire on his head." It doesn't mean actual coals of fire, but they will get the punishment they have earned for hurting God's child. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by ThiefOfHearts(f): 6:38am On Oct 20, 2011 |
Jiah011: Um I know that. I believe my question was why dont more Christians go that route instead of reading curses like Psalm 109 anyway for those who wanna know more about this topic, I found this article, quite enlightening http://fizbans..com/2010/05/cursing-psalms-psalm-109.html  1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Jiah011(f): 6:45am On Oct 20, 2011 |
@ThiefofHearts: Fine. I misunderstood what you were asking. True, more Christians should go this route. But unfortunately, this is not the case for many. The article you posted was very insightful . |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Nobody: 6:46am On Oct 20, 2011 |
The bible is an inspirational and holy book. It's all about human lives. Psalm 109, doesn't make it any different. @op have you ever gone through difficult times that you feel really hurt? Believe me your own prayer would be worst. jennykadry: |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Psalmuell: 6:53am On Oct 20, 2011 |
Who are u ?am very sure u are bein sent by d devil to post dis psalm and say all sorts of tins against it.dat psalm scares only d devil and very sure u are an agent of darkness dat y u complain abt it. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Emary(f): 7:12am On Oct 20, 2011 |
We must remember that this psalm was written at the time when we were under the Law, a time of retribution and an eye for an eye. Though God says vengeance is his, He does so with mercy and love and tells us in the Lord's prayer to forgive those who trespass against us. The Christian should be more focused on forgiveness than vengeance since God has shown us ultimate forgiveness. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by ThiefOfHearts(f): 7:30am On Oct 20, 2011 |
Floxyluv: I suggest you dont tell me what my own prayers would ever consist of. After all you do not know me. You are sadly mistaken if you think I'd actually be sick enough to pray to God and ask for someone to be fatherless and end up destitue and all that vile nonsense. I'd be better off asking that from a babalawo. what I would do however is rebuke. I am surprised that women are defending it though, then again Im not awon elenu buruku lmao. Ki le ni ti gbogbo aiye fin "feju" moyin?  |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by ThiefOfHearts(f): 7:33am On Oct 20, 2011 |
Psalmuell: Instead of yarning dust, how about going back to school? Is that English or Yiddish? Odada. Emary: I completely agree. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by milllitant: 7:53am On Oct 20, 2011 |
@op pls could you thief my heaRT?  |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by franko2: 8:01am On Oct 20, 2011 |
@ThiefOfHearts, this is a very fantastic post, and have to commend you for it. It exposes the dangerous depths (on one hand) and beautiful heights (on the other hand) to which people, especially Nigerians can take a piece of material and interpret or misinterpret it. Our capacity to take religion - both christian and moslem, and use it in extreme, without knowing the best context to view, analyse and understand it has been one reason Nigeria is still in the depths of deprivation. Religion comes with what can be best described as a health warning - USER BEWARE!! ThiefOfHearts: However, i think heartthief sometimes undermined the excellence of her work by going to some ajegunle level as with this outburst, but hey! we are all human, |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Gombs(m): 8:23am On Oct 20, 2011 |
OP, If questioning the very word of God i.e the scriptures is cowardice,i'd wanna be a coward for life.Meanwhile you took only the first part of my question and couldnt answer the rest,and as far as sensibility is concerned,you didnt answer the first question.Let me paraphrase, ,"what do you wanna achieve by questioning and slandering the veracity of the scriptures?", Since when did it become you job to discern how people pray,whatever scriptures they use,and whatever reasons they have?You should study the bible and see what became of those who questioned or ridiculed God's word(if you read your post and topic,you see you doing worse than questioning and ridicule).instead of creating strife using God's word,in the auspice of 'understanding' why not study more of the scriptures or meet learned men of God? Ecc 12:13 NIV "Now all has been heard:here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments,for this is the whole duty of man." OP fear God and his inspired scriptures,for it is a terrible thing to fall in the hands of the living God(let me keep you busy,lookup this scripture in the bible:-)).Since you desire understanding of the scripture Psalm 109,then Proverbs 1:7 NIV answers you desire "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge(wisdom),, " i included wisdom there as other translations carry it,and i hope you dont fall into the category of the latter part of that verse.But if you wanna continue in this path,you'd just be fulfilling the scriptures in Jude 10 "Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand;and what things they do understand by instinct,like unreasoning animals-these are the very things that destroy them. 11Woe to them!, " i rest my case.(do yourself a favour and answer my earlier questions,else you'd prove yourself certifiable).thanks. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by DExplorer1: 8:32am On Oct 20, 2011 |
As long as it's the WORD of God, what will your questioning do? I think only clearification can help your misunderstanding of that chapter n that u've gotten. Now read without fear. You Need To Read These! After Aborting 3 Times For Him, He's Set To Marry Another Lady This Month. 21 Reasons He Hasn't Proposed to You Yet 16 Regular Mistakes Singles Make in Relationships 25 Warning Signs of a Possible Break up in Your Relationship 16 Raw but Bitter Truths Ladies Must Know |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Nobody: 8:34am On Oct 20, 2011 |
[color=#000099][/color]people do not read questions before they write their answerz,i mean why must u be foolish to do dis, now Mr poster only God knows why u tot of dis,it's not left to us to say which portion of d bible should be or not be in d bible!have u ever been tormented?if u have, den u'll understand dat in such conditions!only God is merciful not man!REMEMBER WHEN JESUS SAID THIS"NO MAN IS GOOD,ONLY HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN"remember not to judge odaz or talk bout something u do not understand! |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Judek2(m): 8:45am On Oct 20, 2011 |
The psalm of David is a collection of David's prayers and suplications to God. These thins he said(ps 109) was an expression of his manly nature,the pain he felt at the persecution by Saul. David sined countless times,he was indeed a brutal man but still merciful and understanding.He lived during the time of wars and dominations,he lived under the law of Moses which is brutal-an eye for an eye>, which many still preaches, Many chapters of the bible(old tastament) is about human individual experiences and words.(sweet love songs of Solomon).They are human,imperfect in thoughts and mortal expression of situations. Those that use that as prayer are just ignorant and stup!d, If we still live of the old tastaments,then whats the essence of Jesus coming?(old things has passd away and all things are made new). Say your own prayers(not of biterness and anger) and dont repeat another persons' own. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by IbegbuPI: 9:09am On Oct 20, 2011 |
Mortals perish due to ignorance. Christ never changed a thing about the nature of God. He rather affected three major areas of relationships with God. When Jesus Christ walked on the surface of the earth, 613 commandments existed. At mount sinai, the decalogue emerged. When Christ came, he reduced the confusion of Laws into 2: submit to God with your all (not 10%), be sacrificial in care for neighbour. Paul explained this better that no man can please God by obeying the laws and that we are sustained by devine help (GRACE). secondly Christ brought about remission of sin--baptism and penance. than bull sacrifice. thirdly he released to mankind Holy Ghost that every man can access God directly without intermediation of earthly prophets as was the case when he walked on earth. our authorities ask us NEVER TAKE LAWS INTO YOUR OWN HAND. Jesus Christ taught us NEVER REVENGE. that revenge is for God. The message of Psalm 109 should not be misunderstood. curses affect only those who deserve them. read proverbs and ecclesiastes. David merely took his pains to God. In as much as Saul had right to protect his office; he had no right to take life without cause. David responded appropriately as contained in ROMANS 13, and did not directly fight his BOSS. as one reply informed us, people have invoked Ps 109 on Obama, but Obama is still there. Mind you some prayers do not cross the ceiling. God is a righteous judge and will ignore your volumes of ps 109 prayer if undeserved. if you disobey the lawful directives of your boss and he in turn hates you, any evil prayer will rather get him promoted than sacked or otherwise. but if he hates you because you have eyes and nose, then more than the prescriptions of ps 109 will hit him if you run to God for help. imagine yourself a faithful husband who returns home to meet his best friend on top of his wife; a neighbour of yours ganging up with outsiders to kill you as to evade payment of money borrowed from you; etc. if you invoke Psalm 109 in similar or worse betrayals God will answer. He may not obliterate the lineage but He will free you from your friend's snare. Thanks |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by tessyade: 9:25am On Oct 20, 2011 |
@poster i understand you. I also once asked why d wars or battles of d old testament are in d bible since men were slaughtered like animals. The answer to all these is that we will never appreciate the work of Jesus if the lapses of old testament is not known/written. The Psalms u quoted is not applicable in our time but its there so that we can know what was obtainable then and be able to appreciate the new covenant pioneered by Christ. Shalom! |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Sike(m): 9:49am On Oct 20, 2011 |
Everything shouldn't be Positive. For every good story, there lies the opposite. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by favouredjb(f): 10:41am On Oct 20, 2011 |
freecocoa: God bless you freecocoa @op i dnt see anything wrong in the chapter at all,i dnt wish ill on anyone ,the prayer is againt evil ppl it is not a verse u read everyday. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Nobody: 11:03am On Oct 20, 2011 |
[size=15pt]wow![/size] My mom always recommended verses from the book ad Psalms but i never imagined something like this existed |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by kaykaybaba(m): 12:04pm On Oct 20, 2011 |
"These curses in Psalm 109 are not the rantings of someone deep in sin. The verses framing the curses (vs. 1-5 and 21-31) make clear that this is a humble servant of God, not a bloodthirsty revenge seeker. The curses in Psalm 109 echo the warnings against disobedience in Deuteronomy 28. Therefore, the key to understanding this Psalm is the covenant with Israel. The psalmist is reminding God of these curses and asking God to deal with his enemies, fellow Israelites, under the terms of the Deuteronomic covenant, because their enmity is evidence of their disobedience to the covenant." Read more: http://blog.beliefnet.com/progressiverevival/2009/11/psalm-1098-a-prayer-for-obama.html#ixzz1bJmeWwVE It does everyone a WORLD of good when scripture is not taken/used out of context. There is a time for everything. A time to bless, and a time to curse. If ALL scripture is God-breathed (and I firmly believe this one is) then David was in the right position to pronounce these curses, or judgements as the case may be. My 2 cents |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by mystikal(m): 2:24pm On Oct 20, 2011 |
So many insightful explanations here already. 1st of all, Psalm 109 is in the Bible because it supposed to be in the Bible. Perhaps if we ignored the exact letters of the prayer and pay more attention to the overall context of that prayer, we'd realise it is more about Justice. Of course Christians whose sole desire is the misfortune of their enemies are spirtitual infants, But there is nothing evil about praying for justice as it relates to wicked people. If an assassin should enter the house by night, and murder your mother, and then escape, and the Police and citizens were all out in pursuit, trying to catch him, would you not pray to God that they might succeed and arrest him, and that he might be brought to justice? And let me just add that if we had the courage and the conviction to pray as David did, we would be very ill at ease in regard to our own sins. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Googler(m): 2:52pm On Oct 20, 2011 |
jennykadry:I have seen people going through nada use that prayer. Nigerians tend to have a lot of enemies. Floxyluv:Let's say you are correct and she would summon God to send otolo and HIV to deal with people. Would that make it RIGHT? |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by donwilz(m): 3:10pm On Oct 20, 2011 |
Really, IMHO, i feel it is better to pray to God our protector than to maim, bomb and kill people in the name of religion. The Verse was portraying an emotion. God loves us, but he is equally the God of Justice! |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Ugobelu: 4:33pm On Oct 20, 2011 |
Till tomorrow I don't understand that psalm and why it is in the bible, We should not just read it or pray it for anybody (my opinion though) It is contradictory the forgiveness of 70 x 70 in the gospel. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by Nobody: 4:58pm On Oct 20, 2011 |
well if psalm 109 seems to be a problem to many then i wonder what we have to say to deuteronomy 28 from verse 15 downward. Those curses are from God by the way . . . Just a few examples - 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. 22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: 29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee. compared to these, David's curses were pretty mild. |
| Re: Psalm 109: Why Is It In The Bible? by ThiefOfHearts(f): 6:21pm On Oct 20, 2011 |
davidylan: That's not a psalm though. Most of the psalms are used as a base for prayers. There's a difference. |
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