THE ancient practice of tithing or giving a tenth for religious purposes has continued to the present day. Parishes of the Church of England are maintained by a “tithe rent charge.” Tithes support the Roman Catholic Church in Quebec, Canada. The members of various other denominations believe that they are Scripturally obligated to contribute a tenth of their income to their church. Does God really require this? What does the Bible say?
The first recorded instances of tithing in the Holy Scriptures were voluntary, unsolicited acts. Abraham, the forefather of the Israelites, gave King-Priest Melchizedek one tenth of the spoils of his victory over Chedorlaomer and his allies. (Gen. 14:18-20) Later, Abraham’s grandson Jacob made a vow to God, saying: “If God will continue with me and will certainly keep me on this way on which I am going and will certainly give me bread to eat and garments to wear and I shall certainly return in peace to the house of my father, then Jehovah will have proved to be my God. And this stone that I have set up as a pillar will become a house of God, and as for everything that you will give me I shall without fail give the tenth of it to you.”—Gen. 28:20-22.
Clearly, Abraham had not imposed the payment of tenths on his family as a regular duty. It would have been superfluous for Jacob to vow to pay a tenth had he already been under obligation to do so. Moreover, Jacob’s vow about giving a tenth of everything in no way implied that his descendants would have to do the same. That vow was a solemn promise by which Jacob alone bound himself.
Jacob’s descendants, the Israelites, however, did eventually receive a law from God requiring the payment of tithes. What was the purpose of this law? Is it binding on Christians today?
The prime reason for tithes in Israel was to support the priesthood and the services at the sanctuary, because neither the priests nor other members of the tribe of Levi were given a land inheritance of their own. Their main work was to look after the spiritual interests of fellow Israelites. The tithes, therefore, served as a divinely arranged means of support, a payment for services rendered in behalf of the nation. God’s law stated: “The Levites themselves must carry on the service of the tent of meeting, and they are the ones who should answer for their error. It is a statute to time indefinite during your generations that in the midst of the sons of Israel they should not get possession of an inheritance. For the tenth part of the sons of Israel, which they will contribute to Jehovah as a contribution, I have given to the Levites as an inheritance.” (Num. 18:23, 24) The nonpriestly Levites, in turn, gave a tenth of what they had received to the Aaronic priesthood for its support.—Num. 18:25-29.
The Christian congregation forming the “Israel of God,” or a nation of spiritual Israelites, differs from natural Israel. (Gal. 6:16) It has no special priestly class nor a body of sanctuary workers who cannot own land or are otherwise prevented from using their hands to the full in caring for their material needs. All the members of spiritual Israel are a “holy priesthood.” (1 Pet. 2:5) Thus there is no need for the kind of material support Jehovah God outlined for natural Israel.
Furthermore, the activities carried on at the sanctuary by Israel’s priests and the Levites pointed to realities fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Respecting the provisions of God’s law to Israel, the Bible tells us: “Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.” (Col. 2:17) “Since the Law has a shadow of the good things to come, but not the very substance of the things, men can never with the same sacrifices from year to year which they offer continually make those who approach perfect.” (Heb. 10:1) When the reality came into being, the functions pointing to it ceased to have any value. And tithes for supporting these functions were no longer required.
The Law covenant, with its commands about tithing, was abolished on the basis of Jesus’ death on the torture stake. Of this, the inspired apostle Paul wrote: “[God] blotted out the handwritten document . . . and He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake.” (Col. 2:14) Hence, the command on tithing given to the Israelites cannot be used to prove that God requires this of Christians.
An examination of the Christian Greek Scriptures gives no indication that members of the first-century church had to pay tithes. True, they made contributions for relief measures in behalf of needy fellow believers. They also gave assistance to elders who worked hard in speaking and teaching. At no time, though, do we read of a specific amount of income being set aside for such contributions.—Acts 11:29; Rom. 15:26; 1 Cor. 16:1-3; Phil. 4:15, 16.
In the Christian Greek Scriptures the emphasis is on voluntary giving that stems from the heart. We read: “If the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have.” (2 Cor. 8:12) “Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” (2 Cor. 9:7) Manifestly, if tithing had been enjoined upon Christians, the amount would already have been determined for them by a specific command.
Regarding material assistance to elders, Christians were instructed: “Let the older men who preside in a fine way be reckoned worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard in speaking and teaching. For the Scripture says: ‘You must not muzzle a bull when it threshes out the grain’; also: ‘The workman is worthy of his wages.’” (1 Tim. 5:17, 18) Again there is no mention of any tithe to be used in assisting elders materially. Then, too, we should not conclude from this text that any of the elders received a fixed salary. What they received were voluntary gifts from those who appreciated that the time these elders spent in behalf of the congregation could have been used by them in working for money. The apostle Paul and other faithful elders, however, did not seek after such material assistance. They worked with their hands to care for their physical needs.—1 Thess. 2:9.
Thus there is no Biblical proof that early Christians considered tithing to be a divine requirement. It was such only during the time the Law covenant was in force. With the abolition of the Law, the command about tithing was also canceled. And no command to tithe was given to the Christian congregation. Contributions for furthering the interests of true worship were strictly voluntary.

Malachi 3.10-11 summarizes it all

@bekay911 said, "Malachi 3.10-11 summarizes it all"

Isn't it odd that you left out Malachi 3:7?

Malachi 3:7 (KJV) “Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ORDINANCES, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?”

Colossians 2:14 (KJV) “Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

Galatians 3:13 “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us…”

Ephesians 1:3 (KJV) “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:”

NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE pays the Biblical tithe today.

THE FIRST TITHE
Leviticus 27:30-33 defines this tithe as a tenth of crops and animals in herds and flocks.
Numbers 18 gives the ordinances, or instructions, for this tithe, and commands this tithe be taken to the Levites.
Purpose of this tithe: to support the Levitical Priesthood.

SECOND TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:22-27: aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.
Purpose of this tithe: “that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always”

THIRD TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:28-29: aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.
Purpose of this tithe: to feed the poor.

Now, tell me. Which of the above three tithes commanded by God does anyone follow today?

The ONLY people in the Old Testament that were commanded to tithe were those who INHERITED THE PROMISED LAND WITH EVERYTHING ON IT. They got the land, house, animals, crops, etc. ALL FREE AND CLEAR. No mortgage payment or rent to pay. And THEY were commanded to tithe on the crops and animals and take it to the Levites who INHERITED the tithe INSTEAD OF the promised land with everything on it. No one else tithed. Wage earners did not tithe. Jesus did not tithe as a carpenter. Paul did not tithe as a tent maker. Peter did not tithe as a fisherman.

Today, ALL born-again believers are priests. ALL of us are called to be deciples of the Lord. No one of us is higher than another. Our bodies are the Temple where the Spirit dwells. According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe.

God doesn't need tithe. We are the one that needs to conquer our greed by giving. There are two important things about our givings. They are honour to a God. Man cannot worship a God without giving and sacrifices. The second part of our giving is our ability to deal with greed.

Joagbaje:

God doesn't need tithe. We are the one that needs to conquer our greed by giving. There are two important things about our givings. They are honour to a God. Man cannot worship a God without giving and sacrifices. The second part of our giving is our ability to deal with greed.

You don change gear again i think the first part make some sense, but i believe there is something wrong with the second, or maybe your post is not complete. the ability to give does not imply we have truly conquered greed, as some givings are also motivated by greed. Conquering greed goes beyond just giving. If you want to help people deal with greed, then teach them the giving that's love driven.

^^^ Yes indeed: teach the giving that is love driven!!!

Like giving/sharing your tithes to/with:

- the family who are struggling to pay hospital bills of their sick child
- the unemployed fellow who is struggling to make two or three meals a day
- the fellow who needs money for clothing and other things to make him presentable for job interviews
- the elderly lady who needs a treat to give her some lift from usual drudgery

--- and etc similarly

What defines giving that is love driven is that the giver gives WITHOUT expecting anything in return whether from God or from man. However, the giver knows that God has seen his action of giving and trusts in God to reward him as God sees fit.

And for the Christian, the New Testament does not make a distinction, i.e. the false distinction often made nowadays, between "tithes" and "offering". All is giving and all may be given wherever and to whomever the giver "purposes in his heart".

There is no tithing in the New Testament. Tithing was disannulled according to Hebrews 7:5,12,18.

When God gave the Israelites the promised land, he RESERVED, for Himself, a tenth of the crops and every tenth animal. They NEVER did belong to the Israelites. In other words, the tithe was from God's increase of FOOD, not from man's income. It was a way to distribute FOOD to the Levites and priests who did NOT inherited any land.

No one, not even the farmers, tithed on their income.

The farmers made their income by SELLING and/or barter-exchanging their crops and animals but did NOT tithe on that income.

Today, ALL born-again believers are priests. ALL of us are called to be deciples of the Lord. No one of us is higher than another. Our bodies are the Temple where the Spirit dwells. According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe.

When you understand the Biblical tithe, it makes sense, and it is plain to see that it makes NO sense to try to tithe today.

There are Christians who tithe without having any problems doing so.
No verse in the Bible condemns anyone for tithing.
Tithing in itself as a form of giving is not condemned anywhere in the Bible.

Those who want to express their giving in the form of tithes TODAY are absolutely free to do so.

---

garyarnold:

No one, not even the farmers, tithed on their income.

No one, not even the farmers, tithed on ASSETS.

Today, ALL born-again believers are priests. ALL of us are called to be deciples of the Lord. No one of us is higher than another. Our bodies are the Temple where the Spirit dwells. According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe.

Although all Christians are priests and disciples of the Lord, the NT shows that there are those who are placed in authority as far as SERVICE is concerned. The idea that "no one of us is higher than another" is true only in the sense of salvation; but it is absolutely false in terms of SERVICE.

Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 12:28 (KJV) that "God hath set some in the church, FIRST apostles, SECONDARILY prophets, THIRDLY teachers, AFTER THAT miracles, THEN gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." This quite clearly demonstrates that some in the Church are higher than others according to responsibility in service.

This is why the same Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 uses the Law of Moses as his basis for Biblical giving in support of those who preach the Gospel -

[list]Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.[/list]

In his argument in 1 Corinthians 9:13, Paul does not mention any of the types of offerings for supporting the priests. However, among the several ways in which ministers of the Temple and the Altar receive their sustenance in the OT, Numbers 18 outlines the tithes under the Levitical system. Paul draws from such passages in the Law of Moses to conclude that "In the same way" the Lord has ordained giving for ministers in the NT.

It is particularly interesting that verse 14 says this NT Christian giving should be "In the same way" (KJV) as those in the Law of Moses gave to ministers of the OT. The Amplified Bible renders it as "On the same principle". There is no verse that condemns tithing in itself anywhere in the NT, or even in the OT. If God so wanted badly to end tithing in all its forms anywhere in the NT, there definitely would have been clear condemnation of tithing in the teaching of the apostles.

Christians in the NT can draw guidelines from the OT Scriptures for practical giving today. That does not mean we therefore come under the operation of the old covenant of Judaism - no. Rather, in the same way as the apostle Paul drew largely from the Levitical system in the Law of Moses to teach about Christian giving for ministers of the Gospel, so it is in the same manner that many Christians express their giving in the form of tithes in their churches.

This is why, after all the arguments against tithing as a form of giving, many more Christians are still tithing. Anti-tithing campaigns have not inspired an increased or healthy giving in the Body of Christ - not even in the USA.

Enigma:

What defines giving that is love driven is that the giver gives WITHOUT expecting anything in return whether from God or from man. However, the giver knows that God has seen his action of giving and trusts in God to reward him as God sees fit.

I don't think this is half-helping matters. Not at all.

One cannot assert that a giver gives 'WITHOUT' expecting anything in return from God, while yet contradicting that statement by saying that such a giver "trusts in God to REWARD him as God sees fit". If such a giver was to expect nothing in return, why yet does he need to TRUST God to REWARD him? Is that not expecting something in return - the REWARD? Why not rather "trust God" to reject any rewards on the basis of "love-driven"?

On the contrary, the form of giving that is 'love-driven' also includes aspects where the giver indeed expects to receive something in return. In that manner, giving is reciprocal. "Give, and it shall be given unto you" (Luke 6:38) is a fundamental axiom - and that is also 'love-driven'.

However, I think many Christians often confuse this idea 'love-driven' giving for lending on interest in Luke 6:35 (KJV) -

[list]'But love ye your enemies, and do good, and LEND, HOPING FOR NOTHING AGAIN; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.'[/list]

The word 'LEND' in that verse is 'daneizō', defined by Strong's G1155 as "to loan on interest; reflexively to borrow".

When Christ said to 'lend, hoping for nothing again', it appears He was highlighting what the Law of Moses already stipulated in Leviticus 25:35-36 about taking no usury (i.e., "interest" on loans/lending/debts among the Jews.

However, this 'lending' to hope for nothing again does not negate the believer's grace to reciprocal giving. Believers can indeed give and EXPECT to receive. Reciprocal giving is taught everywhere in both the OT and NT.

Enigma:

And for the Christian, the New Testament does not make a distinction, i.e. the false distinction often made nowadays, between "tithes" and "offering". All is giving and all may be given wherever and to whomever the giver "purposes in his heart".

Thank you for that!

I especially like the fact that "All is giving" - whether tithes and offerings. I have often said that tithing is a form of giving, and believers can express their giving in the form of tithes/tithing (garyarnold, please keep this in mind ).

Also, I have often tried to maintain that believers are free to give wherever they so choose to give - if that giving (including tithes) is done in Church.

If this is so, why do some Christians take it upon themselves to argue unnecessarily against the idea of Christians tithing in Church? 

If ure going to give, give to the poor directly. Never surplus the pocked of a deluded man of God who will rather invest in a private jet than in the needs of the people.

obowunmi:

If ure going to give, give to the poor directly. Never surplus the pocked of a deluded man of God who will rather invest in a private jet than in the needs of the people.

^^ The pockets of PJPs ("[b]p[/b]rivate-[b]j[/b]et-proprietors [b]p[/b]astors" should not be an excuse for not giving in Church. A 'PJP' who pretends to 'prophesy' one way or another for your wallet to fund/sponsor his private jet is not a genuinely called minister of Christ.

However, you can give directly to the poor whenever you choose to do so (Mark 14:7) - in the form of alms (Luke 12:33) or through your local church contributions (Romans 15:26).

Giving to the poor is not the only type of giving in the Bible, and it does not negate other aspects of Christian giving for other matters or concerns.

The point of giving to a local church or local religious organization is to take care of the poor, widowed, and the needs of people who are in dire circumstances, Anything else such as building luxurious churches, or anything else is uncalled for.

obowunmi:

The point of giving to a local church or local religious organization is to take care of the poor, widowed, and the needs of people who are in dire circumstances,  Anything else such as building luxurious churches, or anything else is uncalled for.

While frivolously extravagant expenses/spending are uncalled for, you're wrong in the highlighted part of your quote. The whole point of giving to a local church or local religious organization does not begin and end with taking care of the poor. There are other concerns besides those, and a minister of the Gospel (for example) does not need to first come under "dire circumstances" before receiving sustenance for his/her called service - 1 Corinthians 9:14; 1 Timothy 5:17.

Anyway, the short answer to the OP question is that God does NOT require "tithes". Neither does He now ask anyone to "tithe".

^^ One may argue that God does not "require" tithes, but the question yet would be: does the same God "require" giving?

The following are the ONLY tithes that God required:

THE FIRST TITHE
Leviticus 27:30-33 defines this tithe as a tenth of crops and animals in herds and flocks.
Numbers 18 gives the ordinances, or instructions, for this tithe, and commands this tithe be taken to the Levites.
Purpose of this tithe: to support the Levitical Priesthood.

SECOND TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:22-27: aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.
Purpose of this tithe: “that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always”

THIRD TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:28-29: aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.
Purpose of this tithe: to feed the poor.

In all three cases, the tithe had to come from crops and/or animals raised on the Holy land.

Can anyone voluntarily pay or give the tithe(s) today that God required?

To say we can "express our giving by tithing today" is pure nonsense and shows lack of Biblical understanding. To say we can express our giving today by giving a tenth of our income is fine. But to infer it has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with God's tithing commands is nothing but a lie.

@wordtalk said, "Those who want to express their giving in the form of tithes TODAY are absolutely free to do so."

In other words, "Those who want to express their giving in the form of tenths TODAY are absolutely free to do so."

WHY would anyone want to express their giving in the form of tenths? Why not express your giving in the form of the whole thing rather than tenths?

EVERY amount anyone gives is a tenth (tithe) of something. Without SPECIFYING what the tenth is on, it is meaningless.

Why would I want to say I gave a tenth (tithe) of $1,000? Why not just say I gave $100?

If I just say I gave a tithe it doesn't tell anyone what the tenth was on. Maybe I gave a tithe (tenth) of the change that was in my pocket.

Above are reasons to NOT use the words tithe or tithing UNLESS you complete the sentence and tell WHAT the tenth is on. God always specified what the tenth was to be on; therefore, when you also specify what the tenth is on, one can see that what you are "tithing" has no relation to what God said to tithe on.

garyarnold:

The following are the ONLY tithes that God required:

Arguments like this are quite dense. It is like arguing that the only prayers that God requires are those found in the Old Testament Law of Moses - and one has to ask if prayer is not prayer until it is "required" by the Mosaic law.  Often times you fail to use your head and heart when making assertions.

In all three cases, the tithe had to come from crops and/or animals raised on the Holy land.

Not true. Anti-tithers like yourself who sometimes quote Numbers 31 often FAIL massively to note that what Israel offered to God as "heave offering" came from OUTSIDE the so-called 'holy land'. The 'heave offering' in verses 29 and 41 came from Moab, not from within Israel.

In Numbers 18:24, God Himself referred to the tithes of Israel as their 'heave offering' to HIM. This does not negate the fact that tithes in Genesis came from outside the land of Israel.

If you want to argue this 'holy land' arrant nonsense, then we can be sure that your own offerings to God are UNHOLY as long as they do not come from within the land of Israel! Paul used the Law of Moses in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 to teach Christian giving in the new testament without arguing that Christian giving should come from the 'holy land'.

Can anyone voluntarily pay or give the tithe(s) today that God required?

Yes. Christians can indeed voluntarily give tithes today without waiting for a "requirement" written on stone. If a believer is led to express their giving in the form of tithes as God puts into their hearts to do so, they do not have to wait for legalistic arguments about crops and animals before they can use the Law of Moses for valid reasons in the same way that Paul used the same Law of Moses.

To say we can "express our giving by tithing today" is pure nonsense and shows lack of Biblical understanding.

Because you fail to do basic Biblical hermeneutics does not mean whatever you read from others is pure nonsense. Only those who parade fraudulent theological degrees conclude that what they cannot understand is pure nonsense.

To say we can express our giving today by giving a tenth of our income is fine.

Isn't this just plain stupidity on your part? The word 'tithe' is defined as 'tenth' - then you argue that Christians cannot tithe but it is fine for them to express their giving as a 'tenth' of their income? That, my friend, is the reason why I'm no longer surprised at your sham.

But to infer it has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with God's tithing commands is nothing but a lie.

If your giving has anything to do with the devil, stop worrying over those who express their giving as tithes to GOD.

garyarnold:

@wordtalk said, "Those who want to express their giving in the form of tithes TODAY are absolutely free to do so."

In other words, "Those who want to express their giving in the form of tenths TODAY are absolutely free to do so."

And what's wrong with that?

WHY would anyone want to express their giving in the form of tenths? Why not express your giving in the form of the whole thing rather than tenths?

What exactly is "the whole thing"? Do YOU express your giving in the form of "the whole thing"? Why do you have such a nightmare with people expressing their giving in the form of tithes/tenths if they so choose to do so, when in very fact you earlier said that "To say we can express our giving today by giving a tenth of our income is fine"?? Are you never tired of making your illiterate arguments and littering the web with such cacophony?

EVERY amount anyone gives is a tenth (tithe) of something. Without SPECIFYING what the tenth is on, it is meaningless.

I'm sure this is not the first time I have said that Christians are free to express their giving in the form of tithes from their RESOURCES. I also wonder why you have said it is FINE for Christians to express their giving today "by giving a TENTH OF OUR INCOME" if you're going to keep convoluting your own arguments.

Why would I want to say I gave a tenth (tithe) of $1,000? Why not just say I gave $100?

Why should it bother you if others express their giving in tithes if you don't want to have any meaning to your giving? What do you call yours - a robbery? a bribe? a kickback? a bailout? or spending cut? Why do you worry so much about what others call their giving when your anti-tithing arguments are not inspiring healthy or increased giving among Christians?

If I just say I gave a tithe it doesn't tell anyone what the tenth was on. Maybe I gave a tithe (tenth) of the change that was in my pocket.

If that is want YOU want to do, you're absolutely free to do so. That is not what others may want to do, and nobody is going to hang you for what you attached to your own worldview.

Above are reasons to NOT use the words tithe or tithing UNLESS you complete the sentence and tell WHAT the tenth is on.

This is simply what it is: "To say we can express our giving today by giving a tenth of our income is fine", not so?

God always specified what the tenth was to be on; therefore, when you also specify what the tenth is on, one can see that what you are "tithing" has no relation to what God said to tithe on.

In the same way, when Paul says that we should give "in the same way" as is found in the Levitical system (1 Corinthians 9:13), you have a heart attack contradicting yourself while boring the web with your noise? Please.

I won't reply to wordtalk's reply to my comments because they insult my intelligence.

garyarnold:

I won't reply to wordtalk's reply to my comments because they insult my intelligence.

You have no intelligence in the first place, and I'm not going to miss anything in your non-reply. If you wanted to discuss you would do so without trying to bore and insult us at the same time in calling my comments "pure nonsense".


BTW, please go and review your paper by removing the ".D." title - it is misleading some gullible folks to take that as a qualified theological degree when it clearly is NOT. Just a friendly warning.

@wordtalk said, "BTW, please go and review your paper by removing the ".D." title - it is misleading some gullible folks to take that as a qualified theological degree when it clearly is NOT. Just a friendly warning."

D.D stands for Doctor of Divinity. I was awarded an honorary Doctor of Divinity Degree on February 2, 1980 and have every right to use the D.D. after my name. I was ordained on April 18, 1979. I got my Doctor of Biblical Studies Degree on April 10.2008. And on May 1, 2008, the Trinity Institute of Christian Counseling Board of Academic Review in consortium with the American Theological Education Association acknowledged that I, having met stringent training, education, professional experience and all ethical requirements is found to be qualified and has fully earned the tithe of Certified Professional Money and Finance Minister with all the honors and privileges pertaining thereto.

I also have a B.S. degree in Accounting and have certificates from the National Tax Training School and Federated Tax Service. In addition, I have had training from the Center for Biblical Counseling, Prison Fellowship Ministries, and have been trained and have mentored through a program given by One By One Leadership.

I have given classes relating to finances at the Fresno Westside SDA Church and also at Pearlygrove Baptist Church. I have also been a part-time teacher at a Christian School.

In addition, I have self-published a book on tithing which has been downloaded by well over 2,600 times, and my material is being used by preachers and Bible Study Class instructors in the US, Canada, Australia, and East Africa that I know of.

Now, wordtalk, just what are your qualifications and education, if any?

garyarnold:

D.D stands for Doctor of Divinity.  I was awarded an honorary Doctor of Divinity Degree on February 2, 1980 and have every right to use the D.D. after my name.  I was ordained on April 18, 1979.  I got my Doctor of Biblical Studies Degree on April 10.2008.  [s]And on May 1, 2008, the Trinity Institute of Christian Counseling Board of Academic Review in consortium with the American Theological Education Association acknowledged that I, having met stringent training, education, professional experience and all ethical requirements is found to be qualified and has fully earned the tithe of Certified Professional Money and Finance Minister with all the honors and privileges pertaining thereto.[/s]

Dear Gary Arnold,

I'm only interested in your claim to the D.D. (Doctor of Divinity) and Doctor of Biblical Studies. The rest of the claims are crossed out as that can be claimed by any troll on the web.

I start with quoting my small print friendly warning:

wordtalk:

BTW, please go and review your paper by removing the ".D." title - it is misleading some gullible folks to take that as a qualified theological degree when it clearly is NOT. Just a friendly warning.

You may argue you have a right to use the D.D. after your name, but would that be the same as using it to mislead gullible folks who take it as a qualified theological degree?

In your paper, you stated the following as your 'Christian Education:

[list][li]Doctor of Biblical Studies - ULC Modesto[/li]
[li]Doctor of Divinity[/li][/list]

With the 'Doctor of Divinity', there is no named university or date where you were awarded that degree as part of your 'Christian Education'. Typically, that was suspect and is tantamount to a sham - I'll get to that in a moment. Those who earn such a coveted degree by academic training and Christian education will not be so careless as to leave inportant info as awarding University and date of their degrees.

With the 'Doctor of Biblical Studies', you named the awarding institute as "ULC Modesto". Are you for real? A 'Doctor of Biblical Studies' from ULC Modesto? Oh, c'mon dude . . . if you take that as a title awarded for "Christian Education", would that not be tantamount to fraud and deliberate attempt to mislead the gullible?

What exactly is the value of the ULC Modesto "degrees"? In reference to the D.D. issued by the ULC (Universal Life Church) Modesto, it is just a piece of coloured paper anyone can get for less than $50. Yes, you read that right: less than fifty dollars - and without any academic or theological training at University level.

This is from the ULC website:

Doctor of Divinity - $29.95

This is the most often requested degree.   It is accredited as stated above, and is held by many people around the world.   Includes an introduction to the principles and procedures of the Universal Life Church.  No test required for this course.

Enter the name and address of the person this degree is for. It will be shipped to the "ship to" address provided as checkout, however we need the name and address of the recipient so that it can be properly recorded in the church records.

How does the ULC accredit their degrees? Read it from them here:

�Q:� I understand that the ULC degrees are accredited.� By whom are they accredited, and what can I do with one?


The Universal Life Church issues several degrees, and all degrees issued by the church are recorded in the permanent church records. The church has been in existence since 1959, retaining records of all ordinations and degrees issued since then.

The degrees convey rank, title, or status within the church. They do not convey academic standing or achievement. They are accredited by the International Accrediting Association (I.A.A.), which is the accreditation arm of the church. This means that the course, degree, or title has been approved and endorsed by the I.A.A. by authority of the Board of Directors. If you have questions related to the issuance of church degrees and titles, you should direct them to generalcontact@ulchq.com.

Would I place a ULC title on a resume, application for employment or academic standing? In most cases, I would not. It would not be ethical to represent a degree as something other than what it is in order to obtain something to which you are not otherwise entitled.

For example, if someone with a Doctor of Divinity were to don a white lab coat over surgical scrubs, drape a stethescope around his neck, calling himself "Doctor So-and-So"�while�offering health screenings, he would be engaging in fraud, contrary to the Universal Doctrine. He'd also be at risk of finding himself engaged in a full-time prison ministry!

. . .

Enough said, garyarnold. It's laughable that you would here want to hide behind a so-called "honorary" D.D. The point is that it is NOT an academic standing or achievement - and passing that off as part of your "Christian Education" is quite plainly FRAUD!

Just for the laughs, a few of my friends have between 5 and 7 of the ULC "degrees". They know it has no academic value other than the laugh it begets in waving it in the face of dire fools! There are so many websites where just ANYBODY can pay a few bucks to be awarded such - check:

[list]
[li]First Church of the Gospel Ministry[/li]
[li]Esoteric Theological Seminary[/li]
[/list]

If you wanted more doctorates and Ph.D "degrees" for cheap, contact them. Then go right ahead and claim it as a title under your "Christian Education" - its value would just be the laugh of the fraud by those who parade them in full knowledge of the fact that even the ULC Modesto warns about the disclaimer.

I said earlier it was a friendly warning. Now enjoy your fraud of a "Christian Education".

Laugh all you want, wordtalk. You still haven't told us YOUR qualifications and education.

The Universal Life Church Doctor of Biblical Studies degree was not an easy course to take. I had to answer just under 1,000 questions dealing with Genesis through Revelation, and my score was 99%.

Many pastors have degrees from similar institutions. But we still don't know where YOU got your degrees, if any. Wanna tell us, or are you embarrassed that you don't have any degrees??

I do not claim to have a Ph.D. in theology, and whenever anyone emails me and calls me by the tithe Dr. (which has happened only once or twice), I immediately correct them.

But many pastors go by Dr. when their Ph.D. is in a subject that has nothing to do with the Bible or religion.

Laugh all you want. The California Courts have ruled that degrees issued by the ULC are as valid as any degrees given by any other Christian school.

What I have is better than nothing. It at least shows I try to better myself with more education.

Many pastors recognize my expertise in the area of tithing and giving. Any use your material to teach from?

I just think you are jealous that I get so much recognition and you don't. That makes you want to criticize everything I say.

garyarnold:

Laugh all you want, wordtalk.  You still haven't told us YOUR qualifications and education.

Although I have an accredited University degree, I do not parade it online for just about any cause. Yet, for folks like you who wave a D.D. bought on the cheap, it's quite a laugh indeed that you would pass that off as part of your "Christian Education".

The Universal Life Church Doctor of Biblical Studies degree was not an easy course to take.  I had to answer just under 1,000 questions dealing with Genesis through Revelation, and my score was 99%.

What arrant crap! The ULC degrees DO NOT convey academic standing or achievement - a fact that is not rocket science to grasp. What does the ULC say further about its degrees? Quoted from their website concerning the "UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH HONORARY DOCTOR OF DIVINITY":

"This degree does not give you any authority, such as marrying people, or anything else having to do with the state. It is strictly a religious degree. However, it does allow you to use the title of ‘Doctor’."

What is the value of a 'doctorate' that DOES NOT give you ANY AUTHORITY other than merely waving the title of 'doctor' around? You tell people that a 'Doctor or Divinity' (D.D.) is part of your "Christian EDUCATION", and yet the ULC tells the world that such a degree DOES NOT convey academic standing or achievement, and also DOES NOT give you any authority! Dear me - is this what "Christian Education" has turned into in the United States?

Many pastors have degrees from similar institutions.  But we still don't know where YOU got your degrees, if any.  Wanna tell us, or are you embarrassed that you don't have any degrees??

'Similar institutions'? What degrees? No, thank you - I do not have such decorated fraudulent papers bought on the internet for less than fifty dollars ($50). I would indeed be embarrassed to put such a cheap ".D." against my name as part of my "Christian Education" after reading the ULC disclaimers!

I do not claim to have a Ph.D. in theology, and whenever anyone emails me and calls me by the tithe Dr. (which has happened only once or twice), I immediately correct them.

Nobody asked you whether or not you have a Ph.D - you're not Ph.D material (except, of course, those 'Ph.Ds' that cost a few bucks off the ULC website).

I wonder why you would feel the need to "immediately correct" those who are gulled by your claim of a 'D.D.' If the degree you bought from the ULC entitles you to use 'Dr.' against your name, why try to yet correct anyone who assumes you actually earned an authentic doctorate that conveys academic standing and achievement? You only correct them because you know you're waving fraud to unsuspecting folks, no?

But many pastors go by Dr. when their Ph.D. is in a subject that has nothing to do with the Bible or religion.

As long as they did not buy their Ph.Ds on the net from one of those "similar insitutions" that dish out degrees that give you no authority where it matters. Any pastor who parades such cheap degrees as titles of their "Christian EDUCATION" is also a fraud. Period.

Laugh all you want.  The California Courts have ruled that degrees issued by the ULC are as valid as any degrees given by any other Christian school.

Where did the California Courts rule the validity of the ULC degrees at par with those of any other Christian school? Where did the Court make such a ruling? I really want to see that ruling, please.

What I have is better than nothing.  It at least shows I try to better myself with more education.

Yea, what you have is better than nothing - even if the D.D. is tantamount to a fraud with no academic standing or achievement and gives you no authority? Nice.

Many pastors recognize my expertise in the area of tithing and giving.  Any use your material to teach from?

There are those who have requested my material be put in PDF for downloads, which I have not as yet done. If and when I oblige their request, I won't go about boasting about how many pastors use my materials. I do feel sorry for those who are gulled by your misleading titles - which is why your sham is quite a laugh.

I just think you are jealous that I get so much recognition and you don't.  That makes you want to criticize everything I say.

Hahahahaha!!
Me? Jealous? Are you so miserable? What would make me be jealous of a 'recognition' that amounts to your sham? Oh dear, if you want self-praise, look for folks around Fresno - they can be bought as cheaply as they come!

[img width=400 height=400]http://www.reverendfun.com/add_toon_info.php?date=20070521&language=en[/img]

Ordination is what gives me the AUTHORITY to perform marriages, not degrees.

In addition to the degrees I have that you call a sham, I ALSO have my Bachelor of Science Degree from a California State College (now called California State University). You still keep a secret what degree(s) you have and from where as well as what subject the degree is for. I ALSO have the full training from Prison Fellowship Ministries. I also have the full training from One By One Leadership. I ALSO taught part-time at a Christian School for a year. I ALSO taught classes in finance at two churches. I ALSO have taught many pastors and ministers both in a class format and on a one-on-one basis. But even more important, I ALSO have THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN ME that has taught me well. So call SOME of my degrees and/or certificates a sham if you wish, but you can't call them all a sham. I studied long hours to get my so-called sham degrees/certificates.

If you are incapable of research the California court cases, I suggest you find someone willing to do it for you.  I am not willing to do anything for you.  You are a jerk.

wordtalk:

In that manner, giving is reciprocal. "Give, and it shall be given unto you" (Luke 6:38) is a fundamental axiom - and that is also 'love-driven'.

There was this fraudster in a church I was attending; he was quite active in the giving department. Always willing to play his part (by giving generously) in any request to give. But that did not stop him from ending up broke. The question I want to ask is this; how come this rule or principle did not apply in his case?

wordtalk:

In that manner, giving is reciprocal. "Give, and it shall be given unto you" (Luke 6:38) is a fundamental axiom - and that is also 'love-driven'.

But does that imply that our act of charity or display of love neighbor should dependent on the resulting reward? Is the act of charity/love conditional? Is that the message from the Luke chapter? That we give only when there is a reward?

My understanding of charity differs. Christ talked about the reward resulting from our act of Christian acts, but he did not command us to love for the reward. Giving in anticipation of reward implies that one will not give if there is no reward attached. This type of giving is definitely not driven by love. There is more to giving than just dropping that 10% in the offering box. Even Ananias gave and was ‘rewarded’ for his effort

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

1Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

wordtalk:

However, I think many Christians often confuse this idea 'love-driven' giving for lending on interest in Luke 6:35 (KJV) -

[list]'But love ye your enemies, and do good, and LEND, HOPING FOR NOTHING AGAIN; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.'[/list]

The word 'LEND' in that verse is 'daneizō', defined by Strong's G1155 as "to loan on interest; reflexively to borrow".

When Christ said to 'lend, hoping for nothing again', it appears He was highlighting what the Law of Moses already stipulated in Leviticus 25:35-36 about taking no usury (i.e., "interest" on loans/lending/debts among the Jews.

I think you are pushing it too far. I hope you don’t mind zikkyy asking; what exactly is the message in the Luke verse? Was Christ talking about the act of lending or was it a message on charity?

Mumu - It's Not about Me

A song that recognizes God as the source of all things good.

John 14:10 (NIV)

"Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?
The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather,
it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

Beat produced by Stompboxx Music


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdLOlm83Y8M

PS: Dont get it twisted, the saint's name is mumudzashe for real

[flash=200,200]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdLOlm83Y8M?version=3&hl=en_GB[/flash]

Imagine the one who thinks he's not under 'the law of tithes'(i still wonder at what that means) so full of SELF. See blabbing, see boasting. I hope that's the worst i'm going to have to read this year.
Wordtalk, you harsh o!

^^
So despite all the articles with hundreds of bible verses quoted on this over flogged 'Tithe Horse ' you are still unashamedly hanging on to the false doctrine of tithing . SMH

garyarnold:

Ordination is what gives me the AUTHORITY to perform marriages, not degrees.

Dunce. The ULC clearly says that their degree "does not give you ANY authority".
Their degree also "does not convey academic standing or achievement".

It is only on the web you can foist your sham on others and use the decorated ULC cardboard "degree" to pass off as part of your "Christian EDUCATION".

In addition to the degrees I have that you call a sham, I ALSO have my Bachelor of Science Degree from a California State College (now called California State University).  You still keep a secret what degree(s) you have and from where as well as what subject the degree is for.  I ALSO have the full training from Prison Fellowship Ministries.  I also have the full training from One By One Leadership.  I ALSO taught part-time at a Christian School for a year.  I ALSO taught classes in finance at two churches.  I ALSO have taught many pastors and ministers both in a class format and on a one-on-one basis.  But even more important, I ALSO have THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN ME that has taught me well.  So call SOME of my degrees and/or certificates a sham if you wish, but you can't call them all a sham.  I studied long hours to get my so-called sham degrees/certificates.

The Holy Spirit within a Christian believer does not sell nor buy decorated cardboard "degrees" from ULC and "similar institutions". More importantly, the Holy Spirit does not encourage your duplicity of passing such a "degree" off as part of your "Christian Education". So, what is all your blabbing about?

If you are incapable of research the California court cases, I suggest you find someone willing to do it for you.  I am not willing to do anything for you.  You are a jerk.

What research? Hahaha!!   I smelt another doctorate lie in your claim about the California Courts. I was waiting for you to lie again, because I actually know what the ULC's about. The web is not a place where you can just hoodwink the public on your fiction, you know. I know you've been hanging out with Fresno dropouts for so long you think the rest of the world are as gullible as your retired dupes. Practise your D.D. fraud on them - it's cheap anyways.