Good Day People,

I usually hardly start a new topic or comment on posts unless i feel i have the necessity to. But what i do every single day is read posts from individuals, especially here on Religion section. So probably most of you might not know me.

I had a talk with a friend who is a catholic and for reasons we talked about the birth of Jesus as immaculate etc. But something struck me when my friend pointed out to me that apart from the fact that Mary was a virgin before giving birth to Jesus (which i agree), she remained a virgin ever since and was assumed (as in taken up alive) into heaven. This i was not comfortable with and thought i should share here and hear the opinion of distinguished and honourable members of this National Assembly called NairaLand (Religion Section in particular).

Was my friend right in his assertion (in bold) and why/why not?

Pls let try to hold back sentiments and tongue lashing and be objective, using biblical references to prove our points.

Holy Mary gave birth to other children after Jesus Christ.
Anything contrary to this truth is from the pit of HELL.

Read John 7v1-7,His blood brothers did not like HIM and persuaded HIM to go to the Temple where the people are waiting for HIM to be persecuted.

The answers to the question is a little complicated for on either sides,the proves seems to be solid on its own.

Visit this website
http://www.onearthasinheaven.com/siblings.html

The deny of biblical facts are not Godly, Same fault as the Muslims, they deny the bible facts.
This article with clear Biblical facts will help u ve a good conclusion.

[size=14pt]Did Mary Have Other Children?[/size]

One of the more controversial teachings of the Catholic church deals with the perpetual virginity of Mary. This doctrine maintains that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and that biblical references suggesting Jesus had siblings are really references to cousins (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 510).

As the veneration of Mary increased throughout the centuries, the vehicle of Sacred Tradition became the means of promoting new doctrines not explicitly taught in the Bible. The virginity of Mary is clearly taught in scripture when describing the birth of Jesus. But is the doctrine of her continued virginity supported by the Bible? Did Mary lose her virginity after Jesus was born? Does the Bible reveal that Mary had other children, that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

The Bible does not come out and declare that Mary remained a virgin and that she had no children. In fact, the Bible seems to state otherwise: (All quotes are from the NASB.)

Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"
John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."
Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."
1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"
Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother."
An initial reading of these biblical texts seems to clear up the issue: Jesus had brothers and sisters. But such obvious scriptures are not without their response from Catholic Theologians. The primary argument against these biblical texts is as follows:

In Greek, the word for brother is adelphos and sister is adelphe. This word is used in different contexts: of children of the same parents (Matt. 1:2; 14:3), descendants of parents (Acts 7:23, 26; Heb. 7:5), the Jews as a whole (Acts 3:17, 22), etc. Therefore, the term brother (and sister) can and does refer to the cousins of Jesus.

There is certainly merit in this argument, However, different contexts give different meanings to words. It is not legitimate to say that because a word has a wide scope of meaning, that you may then transfer any part of that range of meaning to any other text that uses the word. In other words, just because the word brother means fellow Jews or cousin in one place, does not mean it has the same meaning in another. Therefore, each verse should be looked at in context to see what it means.

Lets briefly analyze a couple of verses dealing with the brothers of Jesus.

Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father? In other words, mother here refers to Mary. The carpenter in Matt. 13:55, refers to Joseph. These are literal. Yet, the Catholic theologian will then stop there and say, "Though carpenters son refers to Joseph, and mother refers to Mary, brothers does not mean brothers, but "cousins." This does not seem to be a legitimate assertion. You cannot simply switch contextual meanings in the middle of a sentence unless it is obviously required. The context is clear. This verse is speaking of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus brothers. The whole context is of familial relationship: father, mother, and brothers.

Psalm 69, A Messianic Psalm

There are many arguments pro and con concerning Jesus siblings. But the issue cannot be settled without examining Psalm 69, a Messianic Psalm. Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, they hated Me without a cause."

He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Fathers house a house of merchandise." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Thy house will consume me."

Clearly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm since Jesus quoted it in reference to Himself two times. The reason this is important is because of what is written between the verses that Jesus quoted.

To get the whole context, here is Psalm 69:4-9, "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mothers sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me."

This messianic Psalm clearly shows that Jesus has brothers. As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets." Gods will has been revealed plainly in the New Testament and prophetically in the Old. Psalm 69 shows us that Jesus had brothers.

Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?

Of course, the Catholic will simply state that even this phrase "my mother's sons" is in reference not to his siblings, but to cousins and other relatives. This is a necessary thing for the Catholic to say, otherwise, the perpetual virginity of Mary is threatened and since that contradicts Roman Catholic tradition, an interpretation that is consistent with that tradition must be adopted.

The question is, "Was Jesus estranged by His brothers?". Yes, He was. John 7:5 says "For not even His brothers were believing in Him." Furthermore, Psalm 69:8 says both "my brothers" and "my mother's sons." Are these both to be understood as not referring to His siblings? Hardly. The Catholics are fond of saying that "brothers" must mean "cousins." But, if that is the case, then when we read "an alien to my mother's sons" we can see that the writer is adding a further distinction and narrowing the scope of meaning. In other words, Jesus was alienated by his siblings, His very half-brothers begotten from Mary.

It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary's virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.

http://carm.org/did-mary-have-other-children

WOW!. What a lengthy analysis by plappville. Thanks. te summary of your writeup i can say, lies in you last statement:

It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary's virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.

For me i would rather go with what the bible tells me than what some big theologian assume of refer to be what is true.

I am yet to see any write-up about Mary taken up (assumed) into heaven without tasting death.

These roman catholic theologians are deceiving themselves.it is explicitly stated in d bible dat jesus had siblings who of course must av been born by mary.James,d writer of d book of james n head of d jerusalem council was a brother of christ n jude,d writer of jude in d bible was another one.if these roman catholic theologians weren't looking out 2 make mary a godess,they wud simply av accepted wat is clearly stated in d bible; but no,they want to make mary appear impeccable,ethereal,perfect,out of this world lik jesus n dats totally impossibl.take it or leave it: mary was just an ordinary human being lik u n me.she only found favor in god's eyes cos she livd right.she didn't remain a virgin,she was married for god's sake! Do catholics intend to say joseph didn't *do* thruout their marriage? I don't fink so! And she didn't ascend to heaven,she most probably died lik humans do.peace!

For all have sinned (Mary inclusive), For this reason God sent His only Begotten Son to redeem mankind (Mary inclusive). If she did not recognise Jesus as her Lord and saviour, sorry, even her virginity could not have saved her.

chiteny:

WOW!. What a lengthy analysis by plappville. Thanks. te summary of your writeup i can say, lies in you last statement:

For me i would rather go with what the bible tells me than what some big theologian assume of refer to be what is true.

That was an article, it was not writen by me, thats why i posted the link for prove. But all thesame, it clearly refuted the claim of the Catholic theologian.

Beretta92:

These roman catholic theologians are deceiving themselves.it is explicitly stated in d bible dat jesus had siblings who of course must av been born by mary.James,d writer of d book of james n head of d jerusalem council was a brother of christ n jude,d writer of jude in d bible was another one.if these roman catholic theologians weren't looking out 2 make mary a godess,they wud simply av accepted wat is clearly stated in d bible; but no,they want to make mary appear impeccable,ethereal,perfect,out of this world lik jesus n dats totally impossibl.take it or leave it: mary was just an ordinary human being lik u n me.she only found favor in god's eyes cos she livd right.she didn't remain a virgin,she was married for god's sake! Do catholics intend to say joseph didn't *do* thruout their marriage? I don't fink so! And she didn't ascend to heaven,she most probably died lik humans do.peace!

the bolded is a question they should answer if they can, isn't it against God's covenant for a woman ?
Marriage is Biblically defined as a covenant relationship before God between a man and a woman.
That Mary got married and never knew her husband, Catholics are adding and taking from the bible.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:28)

@ OP Thank you for raising this interesting article.

James and Jude were blood brother of Jesus by mary.

Mark 6:3
3 Is not this the Carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not His sisters here among us? And they took offense at Him and were hurt [that is, they disapproved of Him, and it hindered them from acknowledging His authority] and they were caused to stumble and fall.

If Mary had other children, why was it necessary for Jesus to hand her over to John and from then on, he made a place in his home for her?D bible says nothing dat has sin can be in d presence of God, then how can he be in d womb of an ordinary human girl born wit sin as all humans r? Was she d only girl livin right? In those days every young girl ideally remained a virgin unlike today. So what stood Mary out? She was prepared even from her mothers womb to be d mother of Jesus,Son of God.she was conceived without sin to achieve this. Why catholics love her so much and pray to her? Because d first recorded miracle of Jesus was done at her request inspite of his unwillingness to do it, He honored His mothers request. She saw d wine had finished n took pity on d young couple for such a thing would disgrace them. And even though he refused and said it wasn't time, she still told d servants to do whatever He says knowing full well that her son will listen to her request. Who would not want such a loving mother who can get Jesus to help even if he doesn't want to. Every prayer,every devotion, everythin dat has to do with Mary always leads us back to Jesus. The rosary which takes us thru d life of Jesus from His birth to His death to d devotions to d sacred heart of Jesus. Can a mother be separated from her child? Never! Even after death, if Ɣ☺Ʊ see ur mother, ul still love and care for her. How can Ɣ☺Ʊ say Ɣ☺Ʊ love me and then Ɣ☺Ʊ hate and deride my mother?wat would Ɣ☺Ʊ do to someone who insults ur mother? Ɣ☺Ʊ an ordinary human being how much more Jesus.Remember she carried him for 9 good months and went into labour to deliver just like ur own mother did. So does ur mother become useless after givin birth to Ɣ☺Ʊ? If Ɣ☺Ʊ become d president where will Ɣ☺Ʊ put ur mother? If Ɣ☺Ʊ sinful human beings can be so good to ur mother then how much more Jesus Himself. We catholics know we can always pray directly to God but we ask Mary our mother to add her own prayers to our own and not just her but Saints like Joseph, Peter, John and d others who we believe are wit Jesus in heaven. Just like a president has family and friends who can be networked to gain favour even though Ɣ☺Ʊ can go directly to d president.we believe His mother, stepfather Joseph, peter james john and all His apostles are wit him in heaven partakin of d glory He promised those who follow Him to d end and we pray to any or all of them to intercede on our behalf for whatever we r asking for. D richness of faith in d catholic church is unquantifiable.For it retains d very traditions of christianity. Even atheists avoid us cuz our miracles r not circus magic but pure and uncontestable even by scientists who don't believe in God. Like d unveilin of d coffin of a priest Padre pio who died decades ago and his half of his bother was as smooth and clean as a live person. It was unveiled to d world and scientists hopin to disprove it took tests upon tests but went home in disappointment as dey could find nothing to disprove. Google d name to learn more of d priest who lived most of his life carrying d wounds of Jesus in his hands, a wound dat never closed or healed or got infected. If Ɣ☺Ʊ still doubt then know dat every other denomination have their origin dates, some were founded by pastors dat r still alive and d church may end wit their death but it is only d catholic church that dates its origin to d time of Jesus Christ,its first pope St Peter, d rock on which Christ built his church, one church. Every other church came out of it so it is d first one true church by logic alone established by Jesus Christ Himself and although there have been bad eggs and there will always be bad eggs in it, it remains d main church, d original church before any other 10 yrs old, 20 yrs old or 50yrs old church.

Don't use Sense knowledge to judged the word of God. The brothers of Jesus didn't believe in him at that time. He handed the mother to someone who believed in him. Not only that,John was the closest person to Jesus.

The bible was clear that Jesus had other siblings . What do you say about this scripture below.

Mark 6:3
3 Is not this the Carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not His sisters here among us? And they took offense at Him and were hurt [that is, they disapproved of Him, and it hindered them from acknowledging His authority] and they were caused to stumble and fall.

Even atheists avoid us cuz our miracles r not circus magic but pure and uncontestable even by scientists who don't believe in God. Like d unveilin of d coffin of a priest Padre pio who died decades ago and his half of his bother was as smooth and clean as a live person.

The same Priest Padre Pio that was found to have used carbolic Acid to maintain bleeding hands and the Church tried to suppress the reports How on earth does someone's hands bleed continuously to emulate Jesus bleeding hands on the cross/. What is the significance of that? What are trying to achieve?

Taking out and adding to God's complete word!!!

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100117995/padrio-pio-and-carbolic-acid-could-the-saint-really-have-been-a-fraud/

Its a miracle only God can explain. Carbolic acid indeed, who knew what dat was in those days? No one. D church ALWAYS suppresses miracles for fear dat pple will divert their worship from God to d person who d miracle happened through. That's y it is rare to see a catholic church advertising miracles even though they happen everyday. It is a human failing to tend to worship a man of God as seen by how some churches worship their pastors n all that.

Effectively what you are saying is that instead of looking to Jesus, you guys looked to Padre Pio because of bleeding hands.

No. I'm saying d church kept suppressing Padre pio because they wanted to keep pples focus on Jesus.

Mary was a Virgin until she died and so was Joseph!!  

she was probably involved in an illegal affair with someone other than her husband and probably got a baster.d child (jesus) from wedlock.

in order to hide this, since adultery was a punishable sin in those days, she spread some false lies about her being given a child by God.

and the worst part is that ALL THEM FOOLS BELIEVED HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah right.

Just like coolviv said, catholics dont advertise miracle. Even the little 1s we know now are only written long after the person involved in it dies, even if you take a critical look here in Nig and Enugu in particular, i know of four Catholic priest who are great miracle workers out of which on two is know by the public (fr Mbaka and fr Obayi) and this is because they run a crusade in Enugu. These priest dont show whatever miracle they perfom on air, but then compare it with other men of God. @op, the fact remain, Mary died a virgin and was assumed into heaven after her death. If any of you dont like the teaching, he shld go and huge a transformer and leave the catholics alone to handle it. PEACE

Just like coolviv said, catholics dont advertise miracle. Even the little 1s we know now are only written long after the person involved in it dies, even if you take a critical look here in Nig and Enugu in particular, i know of four Catholic priest who are great miracle workers out of which on two is know by the public (fr Mbaka and fr Obayi) and this is because they run a crusade in Enugu. These priest dont show whatever miracle they perfom on air, but then compare it with other men of God. @op, the fact remain, Mary died a virgin and was assumed into heaven after her death. If any of you dont like the teaching, he shld go and huge a transformer and leave the catholics alone to handle it. PEACE

Is this how Jesus christ teaches through ur Pope, the man who presently in surport of NWO with his fellow member Obama and co. Did Jesus used word like this to adress issues? Are u just protecting Catholic by cursing Christ image?

Its high time u Catholics igrorants wake up from ur slumber, when will u learn to read ur bible and validate it with what the Pope and his doctrim? The Pope's events with some Illum's members, his garment and hat with symbles same as the Satanist? His hands, when waving same signs as the illum's, hand shake same as them?

Have u decided to neglect Jesus and follow Mans doctrims? Was there a place in the bible Jesus told his disciples to honour/pray to his mother? Did he say we should bow to images? What is the use of the gold Cross the Pope is wearing?
Will the cross justify salvation? How do u see adding to the bible by celebrating Jesus birthday? Isnt it contradicting? How about the Sabbath day that was change to be sunday? This whole thing is hard for Ignorants to understand.
This" sunday" is the day set aside long time ago by same Man that validate Christmas.
The day they will dedicate to worship their father the Devil
Should we allow them to succided? The bible told us God rested on the sabbath day, now the sabbath day has been changed to be known as sunday, this is not by coincident mark in, but it may be too late to mark it . U must fight out to save ur soul from thier hands, they are the real antichrist, (Pantagon) (Jesuit) etc, Watch out the new card games they created for the Olympics in London. U may judge for urself.
Open that brain, God gave u to use it, do not be ignorant, everybody go answer em papa name on that day.
If u refused to read ur bible and just relia on what the Pope teaches, then be prepared to face hell, because that man is contradicting.

All those gold and signs all over him is evil. God will open ur eyes to see the truth.
And u should not leed others with u to the darkness.

To those who claim that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of jesus, how do you explain Matthew 1:25

If they can show where she was assumed into heaven (in the bible), then and only then will i believe it. Thank God for the internet, eyes are now open!

So if Pope John Paul and perhaps other catholics belong to mary, you guys make a mockery of the suffering Jesus suffered on the cross!!! This marian worship sef I tire

Jeremiah7:18;the children gather wood,and the father kindle the fire,and the women kneading their dough,to make cakes to the Queen of heaven,and to pour our drink offerings unto gods,that they may provoke Me(God)to anger.
Jermh44:17;to burn incense unto the Queen of heaven.
Jermh44:18;but since we left off to burn incense to the Queen of heaven.
Jermh44:25, we will surely perform our vows that we have vowed we have vowed to burn incense to the Queen of heaven,and to pour out drink offerings unto her.
Rev18:2,"Fallen!Fallen is Babylon the Great!She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit,a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
Rev18:3;For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries.the kings of the committed adultery with her,and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries,"
Rev18:4"Come out of her My                 People,so that you will not share in her SINs,so that you will notreceive any of her Plagues;
Rev18:5,for her Sins are piled up
          to Heaven.
Rev18:7,in her heart she Boasts,
"i sit as Queen;i am not a widow,and i will never mourn"
The Queen of heaven some people  pray to and worship is a Principality in the heavenly realms talked about byApostle Paul in Ephesians4:12.
Some people need to start studing there Bible.
HE WHO HAS AN EAR,LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS TO THE CHURCHES(Rev2:11)

Now this thread is progressing. I can't believe i have been away for this long. Don't blame me. Was working very hard for money to pay bills. One write up caught my interest and that is the write up of coolviv as follows:

If Mary had other children, why was it necessary for Jesus to hand her over to John and from then on, he made a place in his home for her?D bible says nothing dat has sin can be in d presence of God, then how can he be in d womb of an ordinary human girl born wit sin as all humans r? Was she d only girl livin right? In those days every young girl ideally remained a virgin unlike today. So what stood Mary out? She was prepared even from her mothers womb to be d mother of Jesus,Son of God.she was conceived without sin to achieve this. Why catholics love her so much and pray to her? Because d first recorded miracle of Jesus was done at her request inspite of his unwillingness to do it, He honored His mothers request. She saw d wine had finished n took pity on d young couple for such a thing would disgrace them. And even though he refused and said it wasn't time, she still told d servants to do whatever He says knowing full well that her son will listen to her request. Who would not want such a loving mother who can get Jesus to help even if he doesn't want to. Every prayer,every devotion, everythin dat has to do with Mary always leads us back to Jesus. The rosary which takes us thru d life of Jesus from His birth to His death to d devotions to d sacred heart of Jesus. Can a mother be separated from her child? Never! Even after death, if Ɣ☺Ʊ see your mother, ul still love and care for her. How can Ɣ☺Ʊ say Ɣ☺Ʊ love me and then Ɣ☺Ʊ hate and deride my mother?wat would Ɣ☺Ʊ do to someone who insults your mother? Ɣ☺Ʊ an ordinary human being how much more Jesus.Remember she carried him for 9 good months and went into labour to deliver just like your own mother did. So does your mother become useless after givin birth to Ɣ☺Ʊ? If Ɣ☺Ʊ become d president where will Ɣ☺Ʊ put your mother? If Ɣ☺Ʊ sinful human beings can be so good to your mother then how much more Jesus Himself. We catholics know we can always pray directly to God but we ask Mary our mother to add her own prayers to our own and not just her but Saints like Joseph, Peter, John and d others who we believe are wit Jesus in heaven. Just like a president has family and friends who can be networked to gain favour even though Ɣ☺Ʊ can go directly to d president.we believe His mother, stepfather Joseph, peter james john and all His apostles are wit him in heaven partakin of d glory He promised those who follow Him to d end and we pray to any or all of them to intercede on our behalf for whatever we r asking for. D richness of[b] faith in d catholic church is unquantifiable[/b].For it retains d very traditions of christianity. Even atheists avoid us cuz our miracles r not circus magic but pure and uncontestable even by scientists who don't believe in God. Like d unveilin of d coffin of a priest Padre pio who died decades ago and his half of his bother was as smooth and clean as a live person. It was unveiled to d world and scientists hopin to disprove it took tests upon tests but went home in disappointment as dey could find nothing to disprove. Google d name to learn more of d priest who lived most of his life carrying d wounds of Jesus in his hands, a wound dat never closed or healed or got infected. If Ɣ☺Ʊ still doubt then know dat every other denomination have their origin dates, some were founded by pastors dat r still alive and d church may end wit their death but it is only d catholic church that dates its origin to d time of Jesus Christ,its first pope St Peter, d rock on which Christ built his church, one church. Every other church came out of it so it is d first one true church by logic alone established by Jesus Christ Himself and although there have been bad eggs and there will always be bad eggs in it, it remains d main church, d original church before any other 10 yrs old, 20 yrs old or 50yrs old church.

It was lengthy and from the heart. However i have some disputes with the bolded sections. For the unbolded sections, i either agree with you, or some other soothing replies have been made to it, or have nothing to say just yet about them. So i proceed with my comments this way:

Bolded Phrase 1: I have read through the bible and there is no place written or suggesting that Mary was prepared right from her mother's womb to be the mother of Jesus. So i ask, where is this coming from? Rather her encounter with the angel that broke the good news to her (that she would bear Jesus) came as a surprise and she even initially disbelieved it saying "how could this be?". So my best guess is that she never knew she would be giving birth to Jesus. Besides the angel said "you have found favour with God". So i think she was just favoured to be chosen by God (reasons best known to God) amongst her pairs that were virgins too and lived uprightly. Again, Mary was concieved without sin I wonder where people get this teaching from. Why do we add to the bible what was never in it?

Bolded Phrase 2: The first miracle done by Jesus was not requested by Mary because it would have been done all the same if she was not there. Know that Jesus was at the marriage feast and observed what was happening as well. When Mary walked up to him to let him know of the obvious His response was "Woman, why do you involve me? My Hour has not come" and not " Mummy, ok i will do it because you asked me to". Funny enough He did not even call her Mother but Woman. He knew what he was supposed to do before Mary approached him. but He did not do it yet because His time had not come.

Bolded Phrase 3,4 and 5: I will simply answer with the following bible passages. John 14:6 . John 10:1. John 14:26. Romans 8:26. I guess these few passages are explicit enough. Bottom line is 1-christians approach God thru Jesus. 2-intercession is made for us by the Holy Spirit. 3 The Holy spirit is given to all Christians (as was promised by Jesus before He left. Remember, he did not say any of his apostles or even Mary should intercede on our behalf).

Bolded Phrase 6: I actually dont have anything about the richness of faith of the catholics . I only just wonder if these fundamentals written above are warped, what exactly if the faith rich in?

I know many will bad mouth me after reading this. But i don't care as long as what i said is written in the Bible and is the truth. You can correct me from the bible only, if i am wrong with anything i mentioned above.

Any way, if no one can claim or prove that Mary was assumed to heaven, i will just take it that she died like other human beings and would be judged as well by God. This is what i will be telling my friend. I hope she makes heaven .

i.chuka:

Jeremiah7:18;the children gather wood,and the father kindle the fire,and the women kneading their dough,to make cakes to the Queen of heaven,and to pour our drink offerings unto gods,that they may provoke Me(God)to anger.
Jermh44:17;to burn incense unto the Queen of heaven.
Jermh44:18;but since we left off to burn incense to the Queen of heaven.
Jermh44:25, we will surely perform our vows that we have vowed we have vowed to burn incense to the Queen of heaven,and to pour out drink offerings unto her.
Rev18:2,"Fallen!Fallen is Babylon the Great!She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit,a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
Rev18:3;For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries.the kings of the committed adultery with her,and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries,"
Rev18:4"Come out of her My                 People,so that you will not share in her SINs,so that you will notreceive any of her Plagues;
Rev18:5,for her Sins are piled up
          to Heaven.
Rev18:7,in her heart she Boasts,
"i sit as Queen;i am not a widow,and i will never mourn"
The Queen of heaven some people  pray to and worship is a Principality in the heavenly realms talked about byApostle Paul in Ephesians4:12.
Some people need to start studing there Bible.
HE WHO HAS AN EAR,LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS TO THE CHURCHES(Rev2:11)

As much as the above is true, the bolded is the main problem Christians are facing, they ve put all their trust in what the pastor/pope teaches alone, many christian lack understanding of the bible I was once like that, but thank God for revealing the truth to me. Christians who dont read the bible are easily misled by false doctrims.

There is any truth about christianity it should be what (the churches received from the apostles), (the apostles from Christ) and(Christ from God)," There are the links we should trace, and all other doctrine is false.

If this can stand, we will agree that Catholics are out of Jesus teaching, they contradict the bible infact.
But because they have captured so many, those who are captured finds it difficult to deviate, they don't even want to hear the truth, it seems they are blind . Catholic is practicing what is called "secret teaching" be warned if u stand for Jesus. Him alone shall u focus on.

Simeon was the brother of Jesus

Matthew 13:55: "Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?"

Mark 6:3: "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him."

Act 13:1: Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

Niger of course in Latin defines the word black
.
"The etymology of the word 'niger' is from the Latin word for 'black'. In botanical nomenclature, where the species name is niger, this indicates that some aspect of the organism is black."

So, if Simon (Simeon) was called Niger meaning black and is the brother of Jesus then guess what?  Jesus is black too!

Any man/woman born of natural descent,and of human decision,and of the will of a man is a SINNER.(JHN1:13).
Be you a pastor,a bishop,arc-bishop,or a prophet.we are all Sinners,we inherited the adamic nature.with the
Exception of,our Lord Jesus Christ,
Jhn1:14,said"The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us"the Word which is Spirit,and also God became flesh in Mary's womb,the Word didn't mix with the Adamic nature Mary inherited from her parents,the Word became flesh in her womb,later made His Dwelling among us who are Sinner's.
Jesus always call Mary "Woman" and not mother,because God does not have a mother.
Even most medical doctors will confirm that the Blood a mother dont mix with that of her Child,the whole constitute of a child is from the father and not the mother,
if her(Mary's)blood did mix with that of our Lord Jesus Christ,His Blood wouldn't have had the power to Redeem us.
people should start reading there Bible ooo!
HE WHO HAS AN EAR LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS TO THE CHURCHES(Rev2:29).

@I chuka, ur quotes on Jeremiah r old testament long before d birth of Mary so dat queen refered to is an idol believed to b d queen of heaven just as Baal was worshipped before d knowledge of God thru Prophet Elijah as seen if Ɣ☺Ʊ read d chapters fully, then d quotes from Revelations refer to Babylon as can also be seen if d chapters r read fully. D queen we catholics honour is d woman referred to in Rev.12: 1-9. Decisions made on half knowledge tend to be faulty