123yes:
Hope you are no 1 pastor in rivers state. You failed as a pastor for not delivering the state from spiritual problems by now.

Kukutente23:
There's nothing spiritual about it

It's about greed. It's about human nature. It's about lust or love for power

article1:
Take it easy, Oga

article1:
Take it easy, Oga

Kukutente23:


If you were a good student of history you will know Opobo, Bonny and Brass traded oil palm and kernel with Europe in pre-colonial and colonial times. Google Jaja of Opobo. Even during colonial times, the region known today as the South South was the richest part of the country contributing the most to revenue. Google and confirm.

Kukutente23:

Again, you have shown your poor knowledge. Capital importation is not FDI. If MTN takes a loan from Citibank in SA, that will be counted as Capital importation. If a services firm takes a loan from a UK bank, it will be recorded as capital importation as well. FDI is different. It is not just capital but more importantly, the foreign stockholding and investments in local businesses ,as it implies that generates value for the country.

Kukutente23:

Lagos state owns just 10% of Lekki ports and its investment is not monetary but is the land asset there. Onne port that I'm referring to is the largest export terminal in Nigeria. You know what that means? Close Onne today and your FG will collapse. Even your Tinubu has shares in Onne. But it is not just about the port. It is about the fact that the oil and gas activities that makes the port very viable comes from Rivers land. That is what I am telling you when I say in terms of contribution to the economy, Lagos has nothing over Rivers. Instead, it is even Rivers that is feeding Lagos. If all the money from that oil was left to Rivers alone, the state will be much more richer and more developed than Lagos. As a matter of fact, Lagos benefits from all the economic activities in other parts of the country as its ports are used for imports by other parts of the country. This same situation is what led to Lagos paying royalties to the North during colonial times after it was proven that part of Lagos riches came from northern exports of cotton at Lagos ports and imports that are north bound.

So in terms of economy of Nigeria, Lagos does not have any contribution that exceeds that of Rivers moreso when Lagos is an importing economy while Rivers is an exporting economy

123yes:
Hope you are no 1 pastor in rivers state. You failed as a pastor for not delivering the state from spiritual problems by now.

LegendHero:



Oga Lagos own 20% stake in Lekki port. Rivers is not even the largest crude oil producer so I don’t understand what you’re talking about. If you close Onne today, they will make use of another port to export the proceeds, it’s not a big deal.

This your straw man argument is sickening. How does River state governors relate to Crude oil and Onne? Was Onne a creation of Rivers governor?

Go and check Nigeria GDP, what percentage of that comes from Oil? Lagos is the single most important state in Nigeria. Remove Lagos from Nigeria and keep other states, then see whether Nigeria won’t fall to like 6 or 7 rank in GDP.

Now remove Rivers state from Nigeria and keep other states, Nigeria won’t even fall 2 spot in ranking.

Don’t start arguments you can’t defend. For the umpteenth time, our argument is about Rivers governor and Lagos governor impact and projects, argue along that terrain and stop diverting to other stuffs to save face.

LegendHero:

Capital importation is the name that group them all together. Whether FPI, FDI, trade credits, currency deposits, loans and etc.

Those banks in Lagos are able to attract that because they are in Lagos, so why won’t you count it as the positives in Lagos? Even if you single out FDI separately, oil and gas is not even relevant in those values.

Your problem is that you’re probably still living in 1980s oil era so you can’t comprehend current realities.

Go to NBS and read the source of FDI into the country for the past few years and you I’ll understand how ridiculous you sound.

Kukutente23:

FDI is not part of capital importation. FDI is investment not capital importation. Just as FPI as well. Capital importation is demand based. FDI and FPI is investment and opportunities based. They are poles apart.

Banks can attract capital regardless of where they are. Location is not a determining factor for capital importation. If you have a brother in Ekiti who wants to start a business and you send him $20,000 to start the business, that is capital importation and if you send it through one of the commercial banks in Nigeria, it will reflect on their Lagos balance sheet and not Ekiti that the money is going to.

FDI is relevant in oil and gas. A major reason why Nigeria has been slipping down the FDI ladder is because of reduced activity onshore by oil and gas companies. Most have divested offshore and that is the major reason why our FDI is now paltry. Or are you not aware that Nigeri's FDI has gone comatose since APC took office?

LegendHero:

Can you provide one of such statistics that put Rivers or the SouthSouth(Eastern Region) as being the largest revenue generating region in the country? Below is the marketing board statistics between 1954-1961, the Western region clearly accumulated the most among the regions. It is even by far.

Even for Parm Kernel, the Western region should produce the highest output back then so I am surprised that you’re grouping Rivers as the highest producer in their Eastern Region.

I don’t need Google. When I talk, I give my sources. Think like a researcher, give your own sources to always back your claims too.

LegendHero:


Oga FDI is categorized as part of capital importation even by NBS. Stop saying what you don’t know.

Even if you go around in most countries, you will also see them group FDI as part of capital importation so I don’t understand what you are talking about.

You’re affecting my brain cell. So you know most oil companies are divesting from oil and you continue to parrot it that oil and gas is the highest source of FDI into Nigeria? Is it Nigeria fault that companies are divesting from oil to other alternatives?

Even in USA, oil companies are divesting and USA government is now pushing aggressively towards electric cars and etc considering how much tax break they are giving people for ditching oil powered cars.

Stop entering into argument when you don’t have enough experience in the field. It will save you from regular straw man that you always engage in.

Kukutente23:

It seems you are not only poor at maths but also at history. Are you aware that the Western region had parts of South south up to delta included?

Kukutente23:

Are you aware that 1954-1961, Nigerian trade was mostly controlled by indigenes with their shenanigans especially the marketing boards?
Below is the export of oil palm from 1900-1944 and that of cocoa which is the major export of the West. See the volumes? I have been trying to lay my hands on income from colonial office in that period before amalgamation. Unfortunately, I've misplaced some of the records I had that showed southern protectorate was the richest before it was merged with Lagos protectorate in 1911.
Even from your records, you can see how much oil palm generates compared to cocoa.

Kukutente23:

How does it make sense to categorise FDI as part of capital importation? Kindly show where NBS grouped fdi under capital importation.

LegendHero:


I come dey pity you. You don’t even do simple research before engaging a whole Legendhero.

Below is where NBS categorize FDI under capital importation. Infact, all the NBS report they’ve been releasing for years captured same every year.

Now where are you shifting the goalpost to again

https://nigerianstat.gov.ng/download/1241454

LegendHero:


Lol see this guy trying to be clever by half.

Every intellectual understood that Cocoa was introduced into the Nigeria colony at a later time compared to the palm variants which explained why you’ll have more exports at the early 1900s for palm compared to later exports for cocoa.

Even in the chart you shared, it wasn’t grouped by region because you should know that Western Region also produce lot of palm kennels and infact produced more than the Eastern region for most years.

In my chart, you’ll clearly see Western region did more parm kernels than every other region within the years in view. Also in the royal accumulations by marketing boards, you can clearly see the overall figures for those range of years.

Bro, I’ve argued this at the highest academic level, Western region is by far the richest of the regions during the period which Nigeria operated in region. Even Azikiwe knew this. Why are you arguing against it?

You have nowhere to hide here. Just admit your intellectual dishonesty and I can free you.

Kukutente23:


That's a lie. Even secondary school social studies teaches that the main cash crops in Nigeria was cotton and groundnut from the North, cocoa from the West and oil palm from the East of which the main areas is that known today as South South.

And where is palm kernel in your chart? The other chart that had palm kernels clearly showed that the East had more palm produce than the West. You are only holding on to palm kernel because that's what fits your narrative. Meanwhile everyone knows that up to Delta state today which is clearly South South was part of your Western region. That's intellectual fraud to be honest.

The Western region was the richest region after regions were created. When we had protectorates, the Southern protectorate was richer than Lagos protectorate. That's a fact. In fact, the Lagos-Kano rail was delayed until after amalgamation of the Southern protectorate with the Lagos protectorate because Lagos alone could not finance it. You are looking at only 6 years of regional govt from 1954 to 1961 when a good part of South south was addeed to Western region while i am telling you of 1900 to 1944. You should be able to decipher the difference

Kukutente23:

Well, it's an anomaly to Nigeria because the right word to use is capital inflow. Check most economics statistics and even govt website. WHat you will see is capital inflow and outflow. https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/financial-flows-to-the-united-states-in-2022-was-there-fragmentation-20230804.html

The above is from the US federal reserve.

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/capital-flows?continent=america This is also from a global trade site. So what are we calling outflow in Nigeria? Capital exports?

Though I understand the appellation came from teh CBN's characterization of such funds. However, the CBN used the word capital importation mainly for loans and not investment. https://www.cbn.gov.ng/out/2012/circulars/ted/ted.fem.fpc.gen.01.014.2012.pdf

So while you are right that NBS uses capital importation to describe FDI, the term in use generally is Capital inflow.

LegendHero:

Yes, but parm Kernel is also part of the palm family. Western region (Edo/Delta/Ondo/Ekiti) axis included in the Western region produced lot of parm kernels during those period and the output surpassed those of the Eastern region.

For simplicity, Nigeria syllabus for school students are always simplified which explain why most people impulsively mentionIgbo, Yoruba, and Hausa when the talk of tribe occur. So them simplifying palm oil, groundnut, cocoa, does not mean the west don’t produced palm kernel with the largest output. Palm oil and palm kernel are different.



Intellectual fraud is not me saying Western Region has the highest output of parm kernels. Check the chart below again and you’ll see where the West produce/sold more output than the East. Stop arguing like a kid bro, palm oil and parm kernel are two variant. Yoruba call kernel (Ekuro) and palm oil (epo pupa) even till now, you’ll still see remnant of those seed along Ekiti/Ondo axis. Edo axis produced huge palm then for the Western region.



Lol, this just shows you don’t even understand Nigeria. Western region was part of Southern protectorate and Lagos colony is a different body entirely from the Southern protectorate.

—Southern protectorate = Eastern + Western Region
— Lagos Colony = Some part of current Lagos

It was not until 1906 that Lagos colony was added to the Southern protectorate and renamed “ Colony and Protectorate of Southern Nigeria”.

So when you hear people mention that Southern protectorate is richer, they are talking about Yoruba, Igbo, and all ethnic states within those Southern Nigeria except Lagos colony (a part of Lagos).

I have been conversing with someone wey no even sabi basic stuffs about Nigeria.

Kukutente23:


Fa Fa foul!! You got it totally worng. Lagos colony consisted of the Western region beyond Lagos. It was because of that that the rail was supposed to terminate at Osogbo. You obviously mistook Lagos colony to assume it contained Lagos alone. Check below a quote from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Nigeria_Protectorate

I have been able to lay hands on one of the books. Check the imports and exports for 1908-1909. You can see that the West had more imports than exports for both years which clearly indicates a trade deficit. Also you can clearly see that the Eastern province had the highest volume of exports and that is the present south south region of the country.

You need to upgrade your knowledge of history

LegendHero:


Nope, Lagos colony is Lagos colony and it was only a population of 60k people as at when that colony was formed. Are you saying Yoruba people are 60k in population back in 1862 when Lagos colony was formed?

Some of the other Yoruba states mentioned was only during the Yoruba civil war and that was when some of them were subsumed into Lagos colony until 1906 when the true Southern Nigeria protectorate was formed. Even your own Wikipedia point you to that so I don’t understand why you’re arguing.

Now ask yourself, when Lagos colony was formed in 1862 and had 60k population, those other Yoruba states, which protectorate are they grouped into then before the civil war? Or are they free from any protectorate?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagos_Colony

@the bolded, In your photo you shared, the annotation says the Central province have capital in Warri which I will guess will be the Delta/Edo axis which later got subsumed into the Western region for most of the territories. So if you’re going to do you mathematics, you need to sum that up with the Western province to get true picture of which have ether largest export between what would later be called Western & Eastern region.

Kukutente23:

Even your Wikipedia screenshot confirms that the colony was extended over almost all of Yorubaland between 1890 to 1897. Why did you choose to be intentionally blind to that part? Meanwhile, the screenshot I gave you was for 1908 to 1909 when the two protectorate were already merged, with divisions of Western, Central and Eastern provinces carved for easier administration.

It is intellectual fraud and dishonesty to be asking for delta and Edo to be added to Western region. They were never part of Western region aka Lagos colony in the first place. They were added to Western region to balance the books and the province fought against it till Midwestern region was later created. That's what I told you in the beginning. It was Edo and Delta that shored up value of palm produce in the Western region from 1954 to 1961 that you posted. Here that they are standing alone, you can clearly see that only Western region had a trade deficit among the three provinces that made up the Southern colony and protectorate.

LegendHero:

Oh so you admit that Lagos colony was totally different before until some other parts of Yorubaland was added. So what are are we arguing about. Territories expand and contract, so it’s normal they add and remove as they restructure.



There is nothing like intellectual dishonesty here. It is just that you jump around and you make people lose track of argument.

Your initial assertion was about Rivers state which explained why you listed Bonny and etc as being the richest and bla bla bla which you later extended to the Southern region. We are arguing retrospectively here because your argument was “Todays rivers was the richest in Nigeria than Lagos during the region”.

I mentioned Delta/Edo Central province to support my argument that states of Western region of old are the richest and not your said Rivers. Even the screenshot you provided never gave any assertions to Rivers wealth as you initially claimed for this thread.

Give up the argument already. Lagos is not rivers state mate in anything. Rivers is not even the largest producer of crude oil so I don’t understand what metrics you are using to rate rivers over Lagos.

LegendHero:

Lol, this just shows you don’t even understand Nigeria. Western region was part of Southern protectorate and Lagos colony is a different body entirely from the Southern protectorate.

—Southern protectorate = Eastern + Western Region
— Lagos Colony = Some part of current Lagos

I have been conversing with someone wey no even sabi basic stuffs about Nigeria.

Kukutente23:

What do you mean by Lagos colony was different? You want to add lies to your claims now? Here's what you wrote with full confidence:

You clearly claimed that the West was part of Southern protectorate and not Lagos colony when that never happened. Lagos colony included almost all parts of Yorubaland. No Yorubaland was part of Southern protectorate while Lagos colony existed. Just admit your ignorance and move on.

I did not shift anywhere. I was just responding to your wild claims. You claimed that the West has always been the richest part of Nigeria and I corrected you that it's not so. The south south is actually the richest part of Nigeria and their main produce before oil was palm. You then went and brought a 1954 palm produce page to buttress your claim when we all know that some south south parts were added to the west to form Western region then.
The point I was making then was that even Lagos was benefitting from the riches of the south south. Just as it is till today. Rivers is richer than Lagos and Lagos is actually taking from it like other parts of the federation is doing which is what has slowed their development. That war my point.

LegendHero:

I have told you that Lagos colony was Lagos colony, it only expanded at some point. You should understand Lagos colony have been in existence since the 1862 and due to the civil war of Yorubaland, that was what let to Oyo empire being subsumed into it in the 1895 before they all got merged as Southern Nigeria in 1906. How can you call something that was merged at a later preceding lahos colony demise as being part of it boldly like they were formed together as a whole? Land acquisition was too rapid during colonial era as all those Royal Nigeria company, the British government, French, and etc fought for lands and take ownership of territories.


South South was never the richest at any point. Nothing in our argument and all the data point we listed on this thread point to that. Stop saying nonsense, palm oil is not the only produce, we have palm kernel and cocoa came at a later year. So how can you call one rich due to palm oil alone?

Rivers is not rich as Lagos, stop saying what you can’t defend with data. The GDP, revenue, and everything Lagos generate surpass river own. Newyork does not have any crude and yet it is richer than most states in USA.

That you have crude oil do not mean you must be richer than one without. Lagos is taking from crude oil proceed but Lagos is returning back into to the nation purse through the many tax taken from her port by the FG.

Rivers is not even the highest crude oil producer so if you’re going to use crude to measure wealth, then Delta should be the richest according to your logic. In every economic metrics, Lagos is richer than Rivers.

Do you want us to now tabulate data on every economic indices and then compare Lagos and Rivers state? True data will clear all doubt.