samintegrity:


Every single church/denominations generate money sir, even the churches of Apostle Femi Lazarus does, and other Apostles..

Go and do your findings..
Stop bad mounting RCCG.
Even winners does, Dunamis and co too are not left out.

Biko rest sir.

those churches you mentioned has less parishes but RCCG churches everywhere so that there will be increase in money generation. I remember when we planted one parish and the remitted less money I saw the remark that was given to the Parish because of low income which made me to burst up that day at province asking them if they cared about the Money or the number of souls been won which one is more important. I remember one provincial pastor that made parishes to pay more money just because he wanted to plant parish at Apo legislative quarter just to attract the senators and other high rising persons in the society.... Oga calm down if I school you about RCCG your go mind no go touch ground ......

maxiuc:
those churches you mentioned has less parishes both RCCG churches everywhere so that there will be increase in money generation. I remember when we planted one parish and the remitted less money I saw the remark that was given to the Parish because of low income which made me to burst up that day at province asking them if they cared about the Money or the number of souls been won which one is more important. I remember one provincial pastor that made parishes to pay more money just because he wanted to plant parish at Apo legislative quarter just to attract the senators and other high rising persons in the society.... Oga calm down if I school you about RCCG go mind no go touch ground ......

eyinjuege:


I understand.
But this was a private celebration, and nothing to do with the church, even
Like I said, unless they were really close to the family, cancelling their own celebration should not be expected.
I've seen cases where a parent has died and their children still went ahead with the already planned wedding celebration.
Infact, a few examples of terrible tragedies where several family members have died in accidents while travelling for the wedding ceremony of their children, and the ceremony still went ahead albeit the couple appeared sombre.
The wedding was not cancelled because of this
How much more someone not related to them?
When people we love die, we want scape goats and someone to pay for their deaths and we hold on tight to any possible scape goat.
This pastor and his wife were just that, in my opinion.
I'm not even a fan of the Pastor or his wife, and believe she's just a loud woman, but that's not a crime. That's definitely no reason to want them to pay for Wigwe's death.

To digress a little, you are talking about closeness to the family.. Oga, this man is their pastor!!! I agree with you that going ahead with their party is not a crime sincerely, but it's a serious lack of discretion.. birthday could have been postpone, that is the least he could have done..The issue here is not whether if it's a poor man or whatever but wigwe died with his wife and first son!! He's a Yoruba man, we have culture and being empathetic is part of it...I don't know the Wigwe personally but I lost appetite for food that evening when the news filtered in..If he was the only one, then may be?But wife and son...If you have a family you love, you will see it differently...Iluyomade knows that quite a high percentage of his members would not be happy with that party, he knew that HQ won't be happy, he knew that REASONABLE members of d public won't be happy, you CANT call their bluff, even as a biz man, he would have avoided all this drama....Does he thinks there won't be a repercussion?

dapotemi:


To digress a little, you are talking about closeness to the family.. Oga, this man is their pastor!!! I agree with you that going ahead with their party is not a crime sincerely, but it's a serious lack of discretion.. birthday could have been postpone, that is the least he could have done..The issue here is not whether if it's a poor man or whatever but wigwe died with his wife and first son!! He's a Yoruba man, we have culture and being empathetic is part of it...I don't know the Wigwe personally but I lost appetite for food that evening when the news filtered in..If he was the only one, then may be?But wife and son...If you have a family you love, you will see it differently...Iluyomade knows that quite a high percentage of his members would not be happy with that party, he knew that HQ won't be happy, he knew that REASONABLE members of d public won't be happy, you CANT call their bluff, even as a biz man, he would have avoided all this drama....Does he thinks there won't be a repercussion?

That you have to explain it (in as you did in such clear terms) is incredible.

This useless Iluyomade couple surely completely forgot that they themselves were human, all the "Daddy mummy" that their parishioners call them went to their head.

The people that went to their useless show of shame/opulence should also all be ashamed of themselves.

Their fall from grace has only just started.

tuzle:
that doesn't mean ur only duty on earth is to convert people. Provided u don't neglect ur primary duty, u should still be able to do some other things that aren't bad. Because u are a pastor doesn't mean u can't listen to some songs about humanity or watch only christian movies. If all u do is only religion and u forget ur humanity them what makes u different from the extremist?

You are confused already, go back read, & understand;
1. The primary duty of a clergy is to win people to christ , after which every true beliver will naturally support humanity.
2. Secondly, nobody has mentioned religion here, I wonder why you brough it in. Christianity is not just religion it means believers of christ.
3. Thirdly, anyone, even politicians can teach humanity but that alone cannot help you make heaven, following the words of God does.
4.About music, when the music doesn't help your relatioship with God, it may help you make other things but not enhance your heavenly race which is primary for a clergy

luluman:
You are confused already, go back read, & understand;
1. The primary duty of a clergy is to win people to christ , after which every true beliver will naturally support humanity.
2. Secondly, nobody has mentioned religion here, I wonder why you brough it in. Christianity is not just religion it means believers of christ.
3. Thirdly, anyone, even politicians can teach humanity but that alone cannot help you make heaven, following the words of God does.
4.About music, when the music doesn't help your relatioship with God, it may help you make other things but not enhance your heavenly race which is primary for a clergy

my point is because ur primary duty is to win soul for God doesn't mean u can't do other things. Listening to a song that doesn't have God in it won't make ur relationship with God lesser.

tuzle:
my point is because ur primary duty is to win soul for God doesn't mean u can't do other things. Listening to a song that doesn't have God in it won't make ur relationship with God lesser.

Error, what does playing such song at your birthday tell people you wish to win to christ? "Ask yourself how the same prople see you" Chairman, if you want to serve God, leave worldy music & serve God abeg.
Some of us out there know the truth even if we are still involved in some sinful ways

luluman:
Error, what does playing such song at your birthday tell people you wish to win to christ? "Ask yourself how the same prople see you" Chairman, if you want to serve God, leave worldy music & serve God abeg.
Some of us out there know the truth even if we are still involved in some sinful ways

the phone u use is it not s worldly thing, created by worldly people but u use it. If u think a music is worldly and need to be abstained from because it doesn't have God in it, then u should as well stay away from anything that belongs to the world too. Because I don't see how a song like "don't worry, be happy" will reduce one interest in serving God.

tuzle:
the phone u use is it not s worldly thing, created by worldly people but u use it. If u think a music is worldly and need to be abstained from because it doesn't have God in it, then u should as well stay away from anything that belongs to the world too. Because I don't see how a song like "don't worry, be happy" will reduce one interest in serving God.

Always confused as usual
1. First of all I'm not a clergy but just a free fact sayer.
2. Secondly, nobody says you can't use phone, tv, cars, etc because these are necessities, but what necessity is in wordy music to a clergy? Where will it take him to?
3. Don't worry be happy" I already told you is only a human consolation not a key to heaven. Can't you comprehend?

luluman:
Always confused as usual
1. First of all I'm not a clergy but just a free fact sayer.
2. Secondly, nobody says you can't use phone, tv, cars, etc because these are necessities, but what necessity is in wordy music to a clergy? Where will it take him to?
3. Don't worry be happy" I already told you is only a human consolation not a key to heaven. Can't you comprehend?

the key to heaven is accepting Jesus and listening to a song won't stop that provided u do all what God asked u too and their is no where in the bible it says u can't listen to song that doesn't have God in it. Salvation for a clergy is not going to be different for any other individual too, so provided he does what God asked him to do, listening to don't worry be happy won't change his part to heaven simple.

tuzle:
the key to heaven is accepting Jesus and listening to a song won't stop that provided u do all what God asked u too and their is no where in the bible it says u can't listen to song that doesn't have God in it. Salvation for a clergy is not going to be different for any other individual too, so provided he does what God asked him to do, listening to don't worry be happy won't change his part to heaven simple.

Why not create your own bible then? Name it your own version.

luluman:
Why not create your own bible then? Name it your own version.

u can as well show me the part in ur own bible that state otherwise, since u believe listening to a song that doesn't have God won't allow u make heaven.

It might be difficult but he will rise beyond where he has been before

tuzle:
u can as well show me the part in ur own bible that state otherwise, since u believe listening to a song that doesn't have God won't allow u make heaven.

Serve your God your own way now, must you convince others to follow you? That is fanatism o. Nobody stopped you from listening to Awilo if you like.

luluman:
Serve your God your own way now, must you convince others to follow you? That is fanatism o. Nobody stopped you from listening to Awilo if you like.

where did I try to convince u to follow God my way. U were the one who said pastors shouldn't listen to worldly music. U are more of the fanatic because I am very sure u believe ur way of worshipping God is better than mine just because I listen to "worldly music".

tuzle:
where did I try to convince u to follow God my way. U were the one who said pastors shouldn't listen to worldly music. U are more of the fanatic because I am very sure u believe ur way of worshipping God is better than mine just because I listen to "worldly music".

Ok, go ahead & listen to one corner if you like.

luluman:
Ok, go ahead & listen to one corner if you like.

that is where u get it wrong, not all non Christian songs contain lyrics that are bad. We have songs about so many things.

tuzle:
that is where u get it wrong, not all non Christian songs contain lyrics that are bad. We have songs about so many things.

Good luck

luluman:
Good luck

u too

eyinjuege:


I don't believe she should have postponed her celebration.
She's not their relative.
Even their business- He was CEO of a bank, did not close for a day.
We like hypocrisy a lot.

The bank is a financial Institution. The church is not. The church is where we seek and get spiritual, moral, social and Godly relationship with one another. The two are different one to another. She guffed seriously. Mind you, that was not the only offense against her. As the wife of a top pastor, To invite flavour to come and perform at her birthday. The wife of a regional Pastor of RCCG. Do u know what height that is in the hierarchy of the RCCG..? As such she's a role model to a lot of people, a lot of women etc. I stand with the church. If you want to serve an organization , you must learn to abide by the rules and regulation guiding and guarding such organizations. Don't bring sentiment to the matter

Sagacity10:

The bank is a financial Institution. The church is not. The church is where we seek and get spiritual, moral, social and Godly relationship with one another. The two are different one to another. She guffed seriously. Mind you, that was not the only offense against her. As the wife of a top pastor, To invite flavour to come and perform at her birthday. The wife of a regional Pastor of RCCG. Do u know what height that is in the hierarchy of the RCCG..? As such she's a role model to a lot of people, a lot of women etc. I stand with the church. If you want to serve an organization , you must learn to abide by the rules and regulation guiding and guarding such organizations. Don't bring sentiment to the matter

What's wrong with Flavour?
Is he Satan's spawn?
Or would it have been better if Sunny Ade was invited instead?
She was having a personal celebration, it was not a church event. So she can invite whoever she likes to come perform. Christians listen to different songs too, and enjoy all the Kizz Daniel's, Korede Bello etc songs
And if the Pastoe was sacrificed because of inviting Flavour to his party, what concerns Wigwe's matter in the whole brouhaha then?
Rejoice with those rejoicing and mourn with those who mourn- Romans 12 vs 15
Both can coexist- mourning and rejoicing.
While some are mourning, some others are rejoicing. That's life.
Of course the bank is a financial institution who lost their CEO. The church, a religious institution did lose some members in America (the Wigwe's).
However, I'm sure many members of same church have passed over the years.
Why are we not insisting other activities stop to mourn them?
We're only concerned about Wigwe because he was an elite.
'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others', I guess (Animal Farm- George Orwell)

Sagacity10:

The bank is a financial Institution. The church is not. The church is where we seek and get spiritual, moral, social and Godly relationship with one another. The two are different one to another. She guffed seriously. Mind you, that was not the only offense against her. As the wife of a top pastor, To invite flavour to come and perform at her birthday. The wife of a regional Pastor of RCCG. Do u know what height that is in the hierarchy of the RCCG..? As such she's a role model to a lot of people, a lot of women etc. I stand with the church. If you want to serve an organization , you must learn to abide by the rules and regulation guiding and guarding such organizations. Don't bring sentiment to the matter

I suspect the person you are responding to is related to the woman or maybe is also one of these Pastor MrsZilla as well, something Redeem seems to have a high proportion of.

You are sadly wasting time trying to convince that poster despite all the sensible stuff you are writing.

In saner climes, even without Wigwe's unfortunate passing away, Pastor Mrs will hold an intimate birthday party, head of to various charitable organisations and quietly donate life changing things to them.

I don't know if they do it already but Redeem need to start holding training courses for Pastor Mrs to teach them how to behave once their husbands become assistant Pastor or Pastor.

Useless woman has brought shame on the husband and his family name and destroyed his Pastoral career.

Didi2d:


Lol..

This reminds me of a story I read some years back about big time winners church pastor anchoring a Ghana branch.
I think the Ghana branch was big and doing so well, almost same issue occurred and the and this pastor stops sending tithes and other information to the headquarters in Nigeria.
Daddy sent emissaries, Senior pastor to Ghana, just to remind this said pastor, still he refuses.

After everything, the pastor went to court, won the case and now he has re name that branch, making it his own church.

You can Google it, to get the full story

That's slightly different as I followed that too at the time.

They had to use his name as registered owner of the church in Ghana because they needed the name of a Ghanaian national and they couldn't use Oyedepo's name as he is a foreigner.

Guyman worked tirelessly for them to be fair, he had also been with them in Nigeria for a while before going to Ghana to set it up there, saw the amount they were making (especially after Oyedepo went for a crusade) and decided he needed to have a larger piece of the pie.

Oyedepo wasn't ready to give him that larger piece and after a lot of back and forth including said withholding of funds, they asked him to come back to Nigeria and arranged a kwe kwe Parish got him to lead.

He consulted some of his lawyer friends in Ghana, resigned from Winners and "renationalised" the church.

Cuny man die, cuny man bury am. Chikena

aswani:


That's slightly different as I followed that too at the time.

They had to use his name as registered owner of the church in Ghana because they needed the name of a Ghanaian national and they couldn't use Oyedepo's name as he is a foreigner.

Guyman worked tirelessly for them to be fair, he had also been with them in Nigeria for a while before going to Ghana to set it up there, saw the amount they were making (especially after Oyedepo went for a crusade) and decided he needed to have a larger piece of the pie.

Oyedepo wasn't ready to give him that larger piece and after a lot of back and forth including said withholding of funds, they asked him to come back to Nigeria and arranged a kwe kwe Parish got him to lead.

He consulted some of his lawyer friends in Ghana, resigned from Winners and "renationalised" the church.

Cuny man die, cuny man bury am. Chikena

But l read somewhere that Winners Chapel eventually won the case at the court and the Ghana pastor came back to ask for forgiveness from oyedepo, l think he was forgiven and Winners Chapel started another branch again ,

AngelicBeing:
But l read somewhere that Winners Chapel eventually won the case at the court and the Ghana pastor came back to ask for forgiveness from oyedepo, l think he was forgiven and Winners Chapel started another branch again ,

I don't think Winners won the case, I think both sides have reconciled sha and Winners have started up another church.

Unless there was another case in the last 6 months that Winners won.

I would have searched for it but can't be bothered jare.

aswani:


I don't think Winners won the case, I think both sides have reconciled sha and Winners have started up another church.

Unless there was another case in the last 6 months that Winners won.

I would have searched for it but can't be bothered jare.

Winners Chapel won the case, check it on Google, the Case lasted for 19 years and the Supreme Court of Ghana ruled in favor of Winners Chapel

AngelicBeing:
Winners Chapel won the case, check it on Google, the Case lasted for 19 years and the Supreme Court of Ghana ruled in favor of Winners Chapel

Fair enough. I have just read the other thread I was tagged in that had the full info.

Ghana Guyman appeared to have won in a lower court and Naija Guyman won at their Supreme Court.

Dem try.

aswani:



Fair enough. I have just read the other thread I was tagged in that had the full info.

Ghana Guyman appeared to have won in a lower court and Naija Guyman won at their Supreme Court.

Dem try.

Well, the Supreme Court of Ghana gave the final victory to Winners Chapel, and that victory is final but l think the breakaway Ghana bishop church nosedived because most of those who edged him on abandoned him whereas Winners Chapel grew and expanded with several branches in Ghana

..

eyinjuege:


I understand.
But this was a private celebration, and nothing to do with the church, even
Like I said, unless they were really close to the family, cancelling their own celebration should not be expected.
I've seen cases where a parent has died and their children still went ahead with the already planned wedding celebration.
Infact, a few examples of terrible tragedies where several family members have died in accidents while travelling for the wedding ceremony of their children, and the ceremony still went ahead albeit the couple appeared sombre.
The wedding was not cancelled because of this
How much more someone not related to them?
When people we love die, we want scape goats and someone to pay for their deaths and we hold on tight to any possible scape goat.
This pastor and his wife were just that, in my opinion.
I'm not even a fan of the Pastor or his wife, and believe she's just a loud woman, but that's not a crime. That's definitely no reason to want them to pay for Wigwe's death.

Again, they are not paying for Wigwes death but rather they paid for their lack of discretion and to put it mildly, they don't have sense...Every LEADER, whether political, religious or even a class captain must have the ability to READ THE ROOM!!!
Let me break it down for the last time. Do you know that Wigwes father was also a pastor in redeemed? He was 90yrs! Some of the church leaders/decision makers today MIGHT have passed Tru him! They won't want the same to happen to them.
The Wigwes were also influential in redeemed..He was a bank MD and a big donor! The pastor should have known that this family is well rooted and they are no push-over..Pastor Adeboye with his wife came personally to pay condolence..So you can imagine the number of big shot from d church that will be there too. I am talking from a biz point of view now...
Also, inviting Flavour is not a sin but it shows the man does not have SENSE ..It is more distasteful seeing that dance with ELUMELU, a former bank MD/CEO who is a FIERCE competitor with the Wigwe...You know what came to my mind when I saw ELUMELU dancing with Siju on that day, I felt the dance means "a ti reyin ota" (we don end our enemy), it might not be so but they will have alot of explanation to prove otherwise..
Iluyomade knew all this!
A big lesson for all married men is to LEAD from the front! Love your wife, but take position. Don't be a pushover..More than 10 members that I know have told me that madam DICTATE who get what, when and how! No man should allow that! Don't be COMPLACENT! Don't leave it for 'them' to handle.. especially when it comes to situation that can affect your very source of livelihood.
Secondly, READ YOUR ROOM!! Always think ahead. Examine the likely repercussion on any course of action. What will happen if I do A or B or C..With the benefit of hindsight, I knew this will happen!It should have been sooner in my opinion..
No pastor should be dancing and celebrating when a young member of his church is in the morgue with his wife and son, even if the person is a church rat! Their death was tragic and painful. A man who has aged parent!!
I pray and hope he reconcile with all those who are still aggrieved, I am too honestly, though not a member..It's a show of SHAME! #MyOpinion

dapotemi:


Again, they are not paying for Wigwes death but rather they paid for their lack of discretion and to put it mildly, they don't have sense...Every LEADER, whether political, religious or even a class captain must have the ability to READ THE ROOM!!!
Let me break it down for the last time. Do you know that Wigwes father was also a pastor in redeemed? He was 90yrs! Some of the church leaders/decision makers today MIGHT have passed Tru him! They won't want the same to happen to them.
The Wigwes were also influential in redeemed..He was a bank MD and a big donor! The pastor should have known that this family is well rooted and they are no push-over..Pastor Adeboye with his wife came personally to pay condolence..So you can imagine the number of big shot from d church that will be there too. I am talking from a biz point of view now...
Also, inviting Flavour is not a sin but it shows the man does not have SENSE ..It is more distasteful seeing that dance with ELUMELU, a former bank MD/CEO who is a FIERCE competitor with the Wigwe...You know what came to my mind when I saw ELUMELU dancing with Siju on that day, I felt the dance means "a ti reyin ota" (we don end our enemy), it might not be so but they will have alot of explanation to prove otherwise..
Iluyomade knew all this!
A big lesson for all married men is to LEAD from the front! Love your wife, but take position. Don't be a pushover..More than 10 members that I know have told me that madam DICTATE who get what, when and how! No man should allow that! Don't be COMPLACENT! Don't leave it for 'them' to handle.. especially when it comes to situation that can affect your very source of livelihood.
Secondly, READ YOUR ROOM!! Always think ahead. Examine the likely repercussion on any course of action. What will happen if I do A or B or C..With the benefit of hindsight, I knew this will happen!It should have been sooner in my opinion..
No pastor should be dancing and celebrating when a young member of his church is in the morgue with his wife and son, even if the person is a church rat! Their death was tragic and painful. A man who has aged parent!!
I pray and hope he reconcile with all those who are still aggrieved, I am too honestly, though not a member..It's a show of SHAME! #MyOpinion

Well said, Apt ,spot on, and end of thread