Justified—by Faith Or Works? - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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My Pastor Justified Taking Another Wife With Scripture, Is He Right? / Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? / How Is One Justified? By Works (laws) Alone Or By Faith Alone? (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:47pm On Dec 03, 2011 |
italo: What you are saying is that Faith + works = Salvation. You are essentially saying that God's grace is not sufficient to save you. When Jesus said it is "finished" what work of the law do you think you can add to complete our redemption? italo: It is your faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross alone that will make you to repent from your sins. Trust in the parachute will make you to strap it on and step out in faith. italo: One is the product of the other and not an addition. italo: Your faith will lead to the fruit of repentance. italo: That you cannot be saved by keeping the whole Law. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by italo: 9:00pm On Dec 03, 2011 |
@olaadegbu, in both cases, the necessity or 'works' is highlighted. The farmer "gave out", the boy "didn't get in". |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by PastorAIO: 3:43am On Dec 04, 2011 |
Well done, Olaadegbu. I couldn't have said it better. The word Faith means trust. When you trust someone it will affect your behaviour towards that person. you will treat him differently from someone you do not trust. simples. Faith immediately translates into action and behaviour. We have a country full of 'faithful' christians. But the more the christians grow the more corruption we have in the country. What kind of faith is that? How many christians in nigeria totally put their faith in christ beyond making noise incessantly from one church to another. Can you not see that the 'faith' of the majority is no faith at all? By their fruits ye shall know them. Faith's fruit is evident. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by tpia5: 7:06am On Dec 04, 2011 |
faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by italo: 9:25am On Dec 04, 2011 |
If a man can cast out demons and prophesy IN JESUS NAME, can it be said that he has not faith in Jesus? |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by PastorAIO: 3:20pm On Dec 04, 2011 |
tpia@: . . . and . . ? |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by 5solas(m): 9:30pm On Dec 04, 2011 |
tpia@: Pastor AIO: It is the fountain from which all good works spring. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by italo: 10:10am On Dec 05, 2011 |
5solas: are you saying that an atheist who feeds the hungry, clothes the naked, forgives wrong done to him etc has not done good works |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:01pm On Dec 05, 2011 |
italo: But who, according to you had genuine faith? |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:18pm On Dec 05, 2011 |
Pastor AIO: Am glad that you agree with my point, more grease to your elbows.  Pastor AIO: Good point. The main difference between most Christians in Nigeria today and atheists is that the "Christians" profess to believe in God but live as if [edit] God doesn't exist. Pastor AIO: True talk. It is their kind of "faith" that makes them to continue to stretch the truth, borrowing stuff without returning it, eyeing their mate's wife, homie, crib, ride or stuff, dissing their parents, cussing their neighbours out or snitching on their mate's to save their behind which is no way of showing saving faith in Christ. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by dare2think: 4:59pm On Dec 05, 2011 |
Good point. The main difference between most Christians in Nigeria today and atheist is that the "Christians" profess to believe in God but live as though God doesn't exist. Indeed. Especially the purported 'men of God' that live contrary to humble lifestyle Jesus exemplified. Very funny bunch. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by aletheia(m): 5:37pm On Dec 05, 2011 |
Pastor AIO: 5solas: Agree with these. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:09pm On Dec 05, 2011 |
tpia@: In other words, faith is having confidence in something we have not perceived with our physical senses. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:23pm On Dec 05, 2011 |
5solas: This is a very good way of describing faith in relation to works that James mentioned. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:32pm On Dec 05, 2011 |
italo: That is not a sign that has saving faith in Christ. You have to look out for the kind of fruit and truth he shows. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:43pm On Dec 05, 2011 |
italo: These are works of the human spirit. Anyone can invent good works which are all products of natural effort but not of the fruit of the Spirit of God revealed in Scripture. The atheists' efforts comes from the human spirit and does not justify him before God. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:47pm On Dec 05, 2011 |
dare2think: Very true. By their fruit you shall know them and may I also add that the truth of the Scripture reveals them. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by italo: 8:10am On Dec 06, 2011 |
OLAADEGBU: the one who did a 'WORK'. the farmer who "gave out". do you disagree? OLAADEGBU: Pls stop this! We are not talking about 'saving faith', we are talking about 'faith' and 'works' in relation to justification. You are so fond of dodging issues when the truth stares you in the face. Why can't you answer the question honestly. Can a man who casts out demons, work many miracles and prophecy in Jesus' name be said NOT to have faith? OLAADEGBU: So you admit that not all good works proceed from faith as tpia@ said. Thanks be to God! |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by italo: 10:55am On Dec 06, 2011 |
OLAADEGBU: the one who did a 'WORK'. the farmer who "gave out". do you disagree? OLAADEGBU: Pls stop this! We are not talking about 'saving faith', we are talking about 'faith' and 'works' in relation to justification. You are so fond of dodging issues when the truth stares you in the face. Why can't you answer the question honestly. Can a man who casts out demons, work many miracles and prophecy in Jesus' name be said NOT to have faith? OLAADEGBU: So you admit that not all good works proceed from faith as tpia@ said. Thanks be to God! |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by aletheia(m): 1:05pm On Dec 06, 2011 |
italo:^ Actually he doesn't admit any such thing. You fail to understand. Any work that does not proceed from faith is null and void in God's sight with regards to salvation. Men may call it good works; but God calls them filthy menstrual rags (Isa 64:6). But without faith it is impossible to please God. . .Heb 11:6 italo:^ Jesus declares this a distinct possibilty. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:21-23 |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:39pm On Dec 07, 2011 |
italo: Do you believe that the farmer's "WORK" was a product of his initial faith he had in God or a product of his human spirit? italo: Do understand the meaning of justification? It means standing before God as if you never sinned. If you are to stand before God on Judgment Day armed with the works of your human spirit or the keeping of the law you will be seen by God as standing in filthy rags which are not befitting though they may be befitting before men here on earth. italo: The truth of what Apostle James was saying was not referring to the initial justifying faith, but to the demonstration of Christian faith before people. And this is what Jesus taught us in Matthew 5:16 that: "Let your light so shine before men, that that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven" So what James is saying is that it is demanded of every believer in Christ to show good works to all men which proves their Christian consecration. italo: A man who has faith in Christ abides in Him and His words abide in the man which makes him produce fruit of the spirit. Casting out demons and prophesying may be what can be called fruit of the baptism of the Holy Spirit if at all. So if the man casting out demons has received Christ and the Spirit of Christ indwells him to the point that he receives Christ as His personal Lord and Saviour then he can be said to be justified by faith. italo: I believe aletheia and my posts have explained the difference. While human effort can be described as works but are as filthy rags before God, the works that are products or fruit of the Spirit is what justifies us before God. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by PastorAIO: 12:47pm On Dec 07, 2011 |
aletheia: Bloodclat!!! |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:23pm On Dec 07, 2011 |
Pastor AIO: Alhaji paistoooor! You didn't tell us that you are a rastafarian also.  |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by PastorAIO: 3:32pm On Dec 07, 2011 |
OLAADEGBU: Sebi that's what jamaicans call filthy menstrual rags? In proper english it is blood cloth. Or Bomba cloth. Abi I lie. Anybody here speak jamaican patois? |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:28pm On Dec 07, 2011 |
Pastor AIO: You no lie o na true you talk.  |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by ogwumgbe: 11:34am On Dec 11, 2011 |
Once saved always saved doctrine is false. It has no scriptural back up. It is out rightly a prevarication. In fact it descended from the pit of hell. When you search the Bible thoroughly, there’s no passage that supports this doctrine at all. The people propagating this false believe do not grasp what the Bible teaches about salvation at all. The only person among the apostles of Jesus Christ that said something about salvation by faith is St Paul. But when you study the writings of St Paul carefully, you will find out that what St Paul meant by salvation by faith is that without accepting Jesus Christ in your life, there’s no salvation for you irrespective of how moral sound you are. The place he mentioned salvation by faith is in the book of Romans. In this book, he was trying to let the Jews to understand that Jesus Christ is the only person appointed by God to save them, that without Him, there’s no salvation. He wasn’t trying to tell them that there efforts or righteousness does not count. The controversy of this salvation by faith mentioned by St Paul hangs on these two words; Circumcision, and the Holy Spirit. St Paul was trying to tell the Jews that Holy Spirit can only be received by accepting Jesus Christ in their lives, and not by observing the Law, or by circumcision. He pointed this out because the gentiles that accepted Jesus Christ in their lives received the Holy Spirit in their lives without circumcision, or through observing the law. They heard the gospel, believed and the Holy Spirit fell upon them. This is what St Paul meant by salvation by faith. However, the question we have to ask ourselves is this; is there any possibility for someone that accepted Jesus Christ in his life to go to hell? If we are able to answer this question, then, joyfully, the controversy of making it to Heaven without works, usually called salvation by faith alone without self effort will be solved completely. Now, about the above question, there’s every tendency that someone that accepts Jesus Christ in his life can eventually lose his salvation. The evidence of this fact is all over the scripture. First, the same St Paul that wrote about salvation by faith in Romans, also wrote to believers in Galatia, warning them about the danger of allowing their flesh to control them. He outlined in the book of Galatia the attitudes that can deprive believers from entering the Kingdom of God. (Galatia 5; 19). If the effort of the believers is not in important for salvation, why would he then warn them, since they have already been saved according to once saved always saved preachers? This passage clearly proves that believer’s effort or works is necessary for salvation, and not just only by faith. Apostles James says that faith without works is dead (James 2; 17) this means that a believer’s works is a prove of his faith. This teaching of making it automatically to Heaven has caused a lot of confusion among believers. This is why you can hardly distinguish between believers and non believers. People are living their lives any how they like thinking that they can still make it to Heaven since they are told that mere believing in Jesus Christ guarantees them a place in Heaven. I am moved to correct this false teaching because of what I experienced among believers of today. There’s this young man I know that calls himself a born again. When you observe the character of this man, there’s nothing to show that he is born again at all. He is living in sin. He fornicates without looking back. I confronted him about his sinful life style. Do you know what he told me? He told me that there’s nothing he will do in this world that will make him lose his salvation; that Jesus Christ has washed is sins away with His blood. I asked him who gave this sort of teaching. He answered that his pastor told him that he is saved by faith in Christ Jesus irrespective of how he lives his life here on earth. But this believe is faulty when you study the Bible. The Bible didn’t tell us that salvation is guaranteed for anybody that lives his life the way he likes. The Bible clearly states that salvation is for those that obey the gospel. (Mathew 7; 21). Also letters to the seven Churches written by Apostle John is clear evidence that there’s nothing like making it to heaven without doing what is necessary to be there. According to the letter written to Church in Laodicea, Jesus Christ strictly warns them that they are not at the right track at all, that they will never make it to heaven if they refuse to live according to His norm. The letter says thus “I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou were cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spit thee out of my mouth. Because you said, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knows not that thou are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked; I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou may be rich; and white raiment, that thou may be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appear; and anoint your eyes with eye salve that thou may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous therefore, and repent (Revelation 3; 15-19) This is an out right rebuke from Jesus Christ to the Laodiceans. If they have been saved by just mere accepting Christ as their Lord and savior irrespective of how they live their lives, Jesus Christ wouldn’t have rebuked them. This shows that you can not live your life any how and expect to spend eternity with Jesus Christ. You have to live according to the rule and regulations of the gospel before you will be accepted. In conclusion, these passages in the Bible refute once saved always saved doctrine, or salvation by faith without works. To put it very simply, without Christ in your life, there’s nothing like salvation for you irrespective of how moral sound you are. At the other hand, mere accepting Jesus Christ in your life does not guarantee you a place in heaven except if it is followed by obedience to the word of God, or works. I hope that this teaching will open your eyes and bring you back on the right track. God bless you. From Pastor Kenneth Nwolisa. 1 Like |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:04pm On Dec 13, 2011 |
ogwumgbe: True. Paul was quoting the minor prophet Habakkuk (Hab. 2:4) when he said the just shall live by faith. Which means that the just must live by continued faith as light is revealed (1 John 1:7). ogwumgbe: There is nothing we can do to earn God's righteousness. The point I am making on this thread is that good works doesn't lead to salvation but salvation produces good works. ogwumgbe: We are saved by grace, this salvation is maintained by grace and we can only make it to heaven by His grace. ogwumgbe: We would be making a mistake if we think that we can maintain our salvation by our human efforts alone. Whatever work we do after salvation is by the grace of God. ogwumgbe: What works do you mean are necessary for salvation? What law does he have to keep? You are right in saying that a believers' work is proof of his faith but not the cause of it. If "believers" are not living Christlike lives then it may be that they are not attached to the Vine. We can only produce fruit when we are attached to the Vine. Without Christ we can do nothing. ogwumgbe: This is the result of doctrine of devils from the "pit of hell" that teaches that we only need to have faith but not repent of our sins. We have many of them teaching this heresy today and we should pray that it will not be too late before many discover the truth. ogwumgbe: This is a perfect description of the contemporary church today. In other words, we have to repent and obey the gospel. ogwumgbe: What I would say is that you don't earn your salvation. It is a gift of God. If you have saving faith, it will be demonstrated through your works. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:38pm On Dec 16, 2011 |
Simply A New Creature 100 Points to Heaven A man dies and finds himself at the pearly gates. An angel meets him and asks what he was doing at the gate. "I want to go in," he says. "Can I?," The angel replies, "Here’s how it works. You need 100 points to make it into heaven. You tell me all the good things you’ve done, and I will give you a certain number of points for each item, depending on how good it was. When you reach 100 points, you get in." "Okay?," the man says, "I was married to the same woman for 50 years and never cheated on her, even in my heart." "That's wonderful," says the angel, "that's worth 3 points!," "three points?!," the man exclaimed while wondering in his mind how he can meet up with the 100 points. "Well, I attended church all my life and supported its ministry with my tithes and offerings." "terrific!," says the angel. "that's certainly worth a point!," "One point?!," he shouted. "I started a soup kitchen for the homeless in my city and worked in an orphanage for motherless babies." "Fantastic, that's good for two more points," he says. "Two points?!," Exasperated, the man cries, "Well, at this rate it’ll just be by the grace of God that I ever get into heaven." "Bingo, 100 points!," the angel said, "Come on in!," "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8,9). |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by italo: 6:12am On Dec 17, 2011 |
Are you implying that one that is saved (born-again) cannot commit sin eg fornication? |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by 5solas(m): 8:34am On Dec 17, 2011 |
italo: Who mentioned fornication? Is that the issue? . If your reference is to the post above yours, the point it is making is this simple, salvation is not deserved. |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by italo: 9:20am On Dec 17, 2011 |
Why are you so in a rush to shout me down? Did you see the 'eg' before the fornication? If you don't know which post I'm making reference to why not ask patiently, or be quiet about it? Who - on this thread - has said that salvation is deserved? Again, if after reading the title, you still don't know the bone of contention on this thread, why not go on another thread? Anyway I was referring to the post above the one you think, where he said "salvation produces good works" and "saving faith will be demonstrated in good works". So I wonder, since salvation alone produces good works, it cannot produce bad works. Does this mean that if I see a man doing a bad thing, he hasn't been saved? In other words, can a born-again christian sin? YES or NO! Or, to personalize it, since you became born-again, have you sinned? YES or NO! |
| Re: Justified—by Faith Or Works? by 5solas(m): 10:35am On Dec 17, 2011 |
italo: Very sorry I misunderstood your post. Your 'eg' though , should have been 'e.g' , I sincerely searched to see if there was such a reference to fornication; also you shouldn't have left the post and person you were referring to so open. As to your favourite and often repeated question, since I became born again, I have sinned, in fact, I cannot count the number of times. A born again christian can still |
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