DMerciful:
Local governments are not federating units!

We get a good system and ruin it with our ineptitude!

Show me one country thats practicing this type of federalism?

What foolishness.local government are federating units.you don't even know this simple facts and you argue politics blindly

DMerciful:
There is no federal system of govt where you have three federating units. We always do things upside down.

We should be pushing for state autonomy, not lg autonomy!

This is a stupid statement

ReubenE:

That's the issue with most of us. We don't learn to separate issues from personality.

Ibori is a convicted thief, YES. The judgment makes sense like you said, YES. But the constitution is clear with "states and LG joint account".

You don't use a "wrong" to establish a "right". We all understand what the SC is trying to do here but it went beyond constitutional provisions, that's what Ibori we all dislike is saying and he is right. Until that particular section of the constitution is amended, the Supreme Court cannot add to it in interpretation.

This is almost similar with what the former lawmakers in Rivers State House of Assembly did. They extended the tenure of the last LG chairmen to allow for a window to conduct LG election since caretaker and all is unknown to law. On face, it is good but it is against the provision(s) of the constitution.
What is good does not automatically override the law. What is good must be supported by extant laws and until that provision is amended, Ibori is right for saying the Supreme Court overstepped.

Another thing is, the judgment just replaced one master with another master i.e State with FG over local government administration.
Judging from Nigeria government and politics over the years and our political culture, expect the FG to from henceforth interfere with local government administration in Nigeria now since they have a solid background now.
If the FG can use state apparatus to interfere in Chieftaincy affairs that by law has nothing to do with it, expect interference in LG administration by FG with reliance on SC judgment

Fg is not the new master Mr.was it not same fg that disbursed LG funds to state before now

membranus:


Who has the fake constitution help, except those milking the country like Ibori.

Wetin make the constitution fake?

senatordave1:


Very long drawn battle.with this,more developments at the grassroot

Very sure!

loswhite:
At least shallow thinking is better than a clown that supports an ex convict. An ex convict cannot lecture us about Nigerian Constitution.

Lol. Seems you like one ex-convict than the other. An ex-convict is the governor of one state at least. And he is even the Chair of the Southern Governors Forum. Yet I have not heard you cry out in holy fury. I said you're naive and you keep proving me right.

loswhite:
Kindly explain how is transferred to the president? Obviously you are not even using your brain…lol.

I'm getting convinced more and more that democracy is not fit for the African man. One of the basic tenets on which democracy stands and thrives is the supremacy of the rule of law.
I already explained. Maybe you're too dumb to read and understand. This judgement makes disbursement to LGs at the discretion of the FG. The FG can now say well, so and so LG is not democratically elected so we are not paying them. An undemocratically elected LG can also get paid as long as it is in the good books of the FG. So imagine now that a governor takes FG to court for paying an LG he feels is not properly elected against the Supreme Court judgement. The case will go to the SC straight. How will the SC give judgement? Is it based on the constitution it just trashed or is it based on the judgement it just gave? You shallow minded retards don't even know what you are bringing up.

Again, if Tinubu meant well, he should have fought for financial autonomy for state legislatures and judiciary. Buhari attempted that by issuing EO10. Funny thing is it was same SC that trashed the EO. If the legislatures are no longer tied to the apron string of govs, the process of constitutional amendment becomes easy. More importantly, they can now reasonably provide the checks and balance envisaged for them in the constitution. From there, everything will fall in place as desired. But turn a judicial panel of 7 to a legislative body doing the work of 469 legislators is simply an usurpation of powers and an affront on the constitution. If you support lawlessness today because it sits with your prejudice, don't cry when it will not.

ReubenE:

I don't think what I said earlier is different from what you are referring me to. Like I said before, the National Assembly should amend the law in support of what the FG government and SC is arguing. The SC is overstepping in its interpretation regarding the current approach.

As you can see from the excerpts; the honorable justice made use of "although" and "but" many times in his lead judgment when interpreting section 162 (4&5). What it indicates is that, the honorable justice is saying; this is the legal provision but since some persons are abusing it, we are adding our own. While judicial precedents are case laws vice versa, the Supreme Court is not a law making body.
If there is abuse, the provision should be referred to the National Assembly for amendment.

The many ALTHOUGH and BUT in that judgment is enough for you to understand my point.

P.S

Please don't interpret my view as being against LG autonomy. Far from it.
Every right thinking person knows governors in Nigeria has reduced LGs to their stooges, but in this case, we are discussing law.
In fact one of the reasons why we have this problem in our LG system is because we don't respect and observe our laws and we cannot use the same culture of not respecting our laws to remedy a like situation.

I am saying this cause it is the culture here on Nairaland for most people to construe anything against popular opinion as hatred.

God bless you. I just read the bolded and shook my head. Agim did not quote which part of the constitution gave the SC the "responsibility of the apex court to make a law that would serve the interest of the people and the country in general."
That is what we are calling attention to that all these numbskulls forming patriots are being selectively blind to. Agim summarily trashed the legislature and added their responsibility to the judiciary. The white man must be shocked if they read this judgement!!

Oakenshield:
u speaking rubbish most development where done by local government chairman and hereby reduces the stress on the governor. Which local government now employment can be done with ease and things will change including security.
But as our useless governor and u who is struggling to buy one cup of garri knows that with what has happened the local government will now easily shift from imposing to letting atleast 60% of the people wishes come true.
No more collecting close to 3 billion for local government allocation then give each chairman peanuts for security and pocket money.
Incase you don't know the state government pays local government salaries instead of the local government to pay them directly that's why governors don't pay salaries

Which LG is collecting 3bn as allocation. I need the name pls

Kukutenla:
I'm getting convinced more and more that democracy is not fit for the African man. One of the basic tenets on which democracy stands and thrives is the supremacy of the rule of law.
I already explained. Maybe you're too dumb to read and understand. This judgement makes disbursement to LGs at the discretion of the FG. The FG can now say well, so and so LG is not democratically elected so we are not paying them. An undemocratically elected LG can also get paid as long as it is in the good books of the FG. So imagine now that a governor takes FG to court for paying an LG he feels is not properly elected against the Supreme Court judgement. The case will go to the SC straight. How will the SC give judgement? Is it based on the constitution it just trashed or is it based on the judgement it just gave? You shallow minded retards don't even know what you are bringing up.

Again, if Tinubu meant well, he should have fought for financial autonomy for state legislatures and judiciary. Buhari attempted that by issuing EO10. Funny thing is it was same SC that trashed the EO. If the legislatures are no longer tied to the apron string of govs, the process of constitutional amendment becomes easy. More importantly, they can now reasonably provide the checks and balance envisaged for them in the constitution. From there, everything will fall in place as desired. But turn a judicial panel of 7 to a legislative body doing the work of 469 legislators is simply a usurpation of powers and an affront on the constitution. If you support lawlessness today because it sits with your prejudice, don't cry when it will not.

Shut up most dunce always thing they are wiser than everyone. Everything you stated here is just your childish imagination. Can you even listen to yourself? The presidency can decide to pay local caretakers because they are in their good books… Go and sleep because you obviously don’t know what you are saying. I am not surprised most of you are useless appointees for governors. After all clown like you thinks that an ex convict that stole from the state funds can lecture us on Nigerian constitution…. Smh. Bunch of ill citizens that always attack the federal government even though they know their Governors is just looting them dry.

senatordave1:


Fg is not the new master Mr.was it not same fg that disbursed LG funds to state before now

A clown that said separate issues from personality….lol. Imagine a prostitute pastoring a church telling us about Jesus Christ…..lol. The level of foolishness of the citizens will tell you exactly why we are in this mess in the first place.

ReubenE:

I don't think what I said earlier is different from what you are referring me to. Like I said before, the National Assembly should amend the law in support of what the FG government and SC is arguing. The SC is overstepping in its interpretation regarding the current approach.

As you can see from the excerpts; the honorable justice made use of "although" and "but" many times in his lead judgment when interpreting section 162 (4&5). What it indicates is that, the honorable justice is saying; this is the legal provision but since some persons are abusing it, we are adding our own. While judicial precedents are case laws vice versa, the Supreme Court is not a law making body.
If there is abuse, the provision should be referred to the National Assembly for amendment.

The many ALTHOUGH and BUT in that judgment is enough for you to understand my point.

P.S

Please don't interpret my view as being against LG autonomy. Far from it.
Every right thinking person knows governors in Nigeria has reduced LGs to their stooges, but in this case, we are discussing law.
In fact one of the reasons why we have this problem in our LG system is because we don't respect and observe our laws and we cannot use the same culture of not respecting our laws to remedy a like situation.

I am saying this cause it is the culture here on Nairaland for most people to construe anything against popular opinion as hatred.

“ According to Agim, by laying claim to Section 162 (4&5), the governors were using the Constitution to perpetrate unconstitutionality, adding the Constitution should not be applied in a manner that supported its destruction.

He faulted the narrow interpretation of Section 162(4) which stipulates that funds of the state and the LGs “shall” be paid into a joint state and local government account, stressing that the governors were using it negatively.

While stating that where the narrow interpretation of the section of the Constitution would result to injustice or work against the intended meaning of the said section of the Constitution, the Supreme Court shall employ an approach that would meet the purpose of the Constitution”.


Thank you very much.

I understand that you are not against local government autonomy. I understand that you view it from the point of the constitution.

There has been for years, this raging debate about amending certain aspects of our constitution which are not in tandem with current realities. This is one of them. Thankfully the Supreme Court put to rest the irresponsibility of governors and state houses of assemblies, used to strangulate local governments and made grassroots development a mirage.

I have wondered how someone like Ibori should say that the judgement was against true federalism. I then asked if what we practice presently in the country is true federalism in its sense. If we practiced true federalism, how have local government, with this joint account with the states, become mere appendages of states and their governors? The rascality over the years by the governors and the verdict of the Supreme Court brought the clapping of hands by the citizens.


Justice Agim said “the Supreme Court shall employ an approach that would meet the purpose of the constitution”.
Is this assertion of the rules of the Supreme Court correct? If it is correct, how had the verdict become an assault on the constitution as posited by Mr. Ibori? How has the Supreme Court wrongly interpreted that section of the constitution?

You have no point. Run along

senatordave1:


This is a stupid statement

Show me one country that practice this nonsense?

senatordave1:


What foolishness.local government are federating units.you don't even know this simple facts and you argue politics blindly

DMerciful:
You have no point. Run along

Oga,support LGA autonomy or shut it.are you pained that tinubu achieved it rather than your hero

DMerciful:
Show me one country that practice this nonsense?

What manner of foolishness is this? Must we copy other countries or do what fits our peculiarities? Are you aware that in America and Britain we have counties which are equivalents of our lgas? What manner of warped reasoning is this

We have counties but they're not FEDERATING units. We only have the federal and state or provincial govts. No single relationship btw fg and counties

senatordave1:


What manner of foolishness is this? Must we copy other countries or do what fits our peculiarities? Are you aware that in America and Britain we have counties which are equivalents of our lgas? What manner of warped reasoning is this

Kukutenla:

Which LG is collecting 3bn as allocation. I need the name pls

i said combined per state

DMerciful:
We have counties but they're not FEDERATING units. We only have the federal and state or provincial govts. No single relationship btw fg and counties

Oga,our constitution specified three federating units and that's final

Our constitution did not specify three federating units. Nigeria is a comfused country, no wonder things are not working.

To have three federating units, the local govt must have their own assemblies and high courts which does not exist

We take a system of govt we did not invent, and thats working in other climes, turn it upside down to suit or corruption then complain why its not working

senatordave1:


Oga,our constitution specified three federating units and that's final

DMerciful:
Our constitution did not specify three federating units. Nigeria is a comfused country, no wonder things are not working.

To have three federating units, the local govt must have their own assemblies and high courts which does not exist

We take a system of govt we did not invent, and thats working in other climes, turn it upside down to suit or corruption then complain why its not working

Section 1 clearly states that Nigeria shall have three arms of govt and three levels and clearly mentions them...
The local government have their own legislature which are the councillors.though they don't have their own judiciary,the customary and magistrate courts are mainly local govt courts.
The problem with Nigeria is the mentality and structure not system of government....we are too big and populated to have just two levels.

Three arms of govt is different from federating units.

A federating unit is a unit that can run as a country but decided to join other units to make a larger country. In the true sense of it, a federating unit can decide to withdraw from the federation if there's secession clause.

This is the reason the states have their own electoral commission, concurrent list etc.

Local govt is under the states by design.

With this lg autonomy through the back door(using Supreme Court), we just created additional set of looters that will be doing substandard projects.

It will backfire like subsidy removal

senatordave1:


Section 1 clearly states that Nigeria shall have three arms of govt and three levels and clearly mentions them...
The local government have their own legislature which are the councillors.though they don't have their own judiciary,the customary and magistrate courts are mainly local govt courts.
The problem with Nigeria is the mentality and structure not system of government....we are too big and populated to have just two levels.

DMerciful:
Three arms of govt is different from federating units.

A federating unit is a unit that can run as a country but decided to join other units to make a larger country. In the true sense of it, a federating unit can decide to withdraw from the federation if there's secession clause.

This is the reason the states have their own electoral commission, concurrent list etc.

Local govt is under the states by design.

With this lg autonomy through the back door(using Supreme Court), we just created additional set of looters that will be doing substandard projects.

It will backfire like subsidy removal

Oga,read section first before uttering rubbish.Lgas are federating units.some local governments can form a country while some states cannot if we go by your nonsensical definition.end this childish bitterness...
They will loot but expand development to grassroot.governors have looted enough

Stop this pedestrian emotional blackmail!

We asked for state autonomy with resource control but APC is giving us nonsense and they'll say they've restructured the country.

This is not what we asked for

senatordave1:


Oga,read section first before uttering rubbish.Lgas are federating units.some local governments can form a country while some states cannot if we go by your nonsensical definition.end this childish bitterness...
They will loot but expand development to grassroot.governors have looted enough

DMerciful:
Stop this pedestrian emotional blackmail!

We asked for state autonomy with resource control but APC is giving us nonsense and they'll say they've restructured the country.

This is not what we asked for

This is better than nothing.you can get the rest from Pandora

When it backfires like subsidy removal, do not shift the blame!

senatordave1:


This is better than nothing.you can get the rest from Pandora

DMerciful:
When it backfires like subsidy removal, do not shift the blame!

No,let fg manage state monies na.ozuor

Garfield1, you're not this insultive before. Hope all is well?

senatordave1:


No,let fg manage state monies na.ozuor

senatordave1:


Rubbish.go and delete it

loswhite:
Shut up most dunce always thing they are wiser than everyone. Everything you stated here is just your childish imagination. Can you even listen to yourself? The presidency can decide to pay local caretakers because they are in their good books… Go and sleep because you obviously don’t know what you are saying. I am not surprised most of you are useless appointees for governors. After all clown like you thinks that an ex convict that stole from the state funds can lecture us on Nigerian constitution…. Smh. Bunch of ill citizens that always attack the federal government even though they know their Governors is just looting them dry.

The funny thing about your harebrained self is that I keep hitting you points and you instead reply with insults.
Where you still a sperm when OBJ withheld funds? So if OBJ withheld funds, what stops other presidents from doing same? Is it not the same SC that Tinubu ran to and is it not the same Constitution they used used to give judgement against OBJ. Did OBJ even obey the judgement?
You're clearly a neophyte who knows next to nothing about how politics and politicians in Nigeria roll.
The funny thing is for you to believe I'm an appointee for a governor. Have you seen any governor cry about the judgement since it was released? Even Soludo who has caretaker committees in his LGs and is known to withhold funds spoke yesterday and he was hailing the judgement. You lack grey matter walahi
And I have asked you. If you believe an ex-convict is not fit to lecture us, can you explain how an ex-convict is a sitting gov and a chair of a governor's forum? Same governor even had an LG chair write against him last year that he sits on LG funds. You know what happened then or were you at the foetal stage then? Fvck off abeg!!

DMerciful:
Stop this pedestrian emotional blackmail!

We asked for state autonomy with resource control but APC is giving us nonsense and they'll say they've restructured the country.

This is not what we asked for

You know the person you're arguin with is a bumbling idiot with cow's dung for brain ba? That's how he goes about spilling nonsense then later start begging for 1k when hunger beats his silly self to stupor

Section 2 of the constitution mentions the composition of the federating units and it is only the states and FCT that are mentioned no LG.

(1) Nigeria is one indivisible and indissoluble sovereign state to be known by the name of the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

(2) Nigeria shall be a Federation consisting of States and a Federal Capital Territory.
More: https://jurist.ng/constitution/sec-2

Ojuntana:

How is it a big one? Kindly explain. The LGAs will suddenly start doing great and mighty deeds abi? No looting, structure or godtaherism just pure and unadulterated service to the people abi?

Nobody is saying most of the Chairmen won't be corrupt.They are all politicians.An average politician in Nigeria is corrupt.But the thing is that,just like the governors,some of them perform very poorly while a few numbers of them do perform a little above average.We have seen few instances where many ex-governors were made to give account of their stewardship in EFCC custody/law court.Those found guilty were convicted like the one speaking now.

So in the same spirit,we should also allow LG Chairmen to control their funds.Those that will perform well will perform and those that won't perform are there too.But there is a law to catch up with any of them who will embezzle the money meant for the development of grassroots areas.

So for the state governor's to technically scrap out the L.G for fear that the chairman will embezzle the money or will not perform well is an affront to the constitution that created the L.G.

The question you should ask yourself is,why has the FG not technically scrap out the states whose past and present governors have not been performing well just as the governors are doing to the LG?