Christian Trinity/Unitarianism and Islam

The concept of the Trinity is a central doctrine in Christianity, asserting that God exists as three distinct persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. This belief contrasts sharply with Islamic teachings, which emphasize the absolute oneness of God (Tawhid). In this discussion, we will explore the biblical basis for the Trinity, the Unitarian perspective, the Islamic rejection of the Trinity, and the historical context surrounding these beliefs.

The Trinity from the Bible
The doctrine of the Trinity is derived from various passages in the New Testament, including:

1. Matthew 28:19 - "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
2. 2 Corinthians 13:14- "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."
3. John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

These verses suggest a complex relationship between the three persons of the Godhead, leading to the formulation of the Trinity.

Unitarian Concept and Evidence
Unitarianism posits that God is a single entity, rejecting the notion of the Trinity. Key arguments for Unitarianism include:

1. Deuteronomy 6:4 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one."
2. Mark 12:29 - Jesus affirms the Shema, emphasizing God's singularity.
3. John 17:3 - Jesus refers to the Father as the "only true God," implying a distinction between God and Himself.

These verses support the Unitarian view that God is one, without division into multiple persons.

Does the Bible Favor Unitarianism or Trinitarianism?
The debate over whether the Bible favors Unitarianism or Trinitarianism is ongoing. While Trinitarians cite numerous passages that imply a triune nature of God, Unitarians argue that the consistent biblical theme of God's oneness supports their perspective. Ultimately, interpretations vary widely among different Christian denominations.

Islamic Rejection of the Trinity
In Islam, the concept of the Trinity is explicitly rejected. The Qur'an contains several verses that condemn the idea of God being a Trinity:

Allah says in:
1. Surah An-Nisa (4:171) - "O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, 'Three'; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God."

2. Surah Al-Ma'idah (5:73) - "They have certainly disbelieved who say, 'Allah is the third of three.' And there is no deity except one God."

3. Surah Al-Ikhlas (112:1-4) - Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allah, (the) One. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks). "He begets not, nor was He begotten; "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."

These verses emphasize the Islamic belief in the oneness of God and reject any division of His nature.

Early Christian Unitarians: Arius and Contributions
Arius (c. 256–336 AD) [/b]was a prominent early Christian theologian who argued against the co-eternity of the Son with the Father, proposing that the Son was created by the Father. His views led to the Arian controversy, which significantly influenced early Christian thought. Arius's teachings emphasized the unity of God and the subordinate nature of Jesus, challenging the emerging Trinitarian doctrine.

[b]Contributions of Trinitarian Christians: Athanasius and Emperor Constantine
Athanasius (c. 296–373 AD) was a staunch defender of Trinitarianism, arguing that Jesus was "of the same substance" as the Father. His works, including "On the Incarnation," were pivotal in shaping the orthodox understanding of the Trinity.

Emperor Constantine played a crucial role in the establishment of Trinitarian doctrine by convening the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. This council produced the Nicene Creed by votes taken for Trinitarianism vs Unitarianism, which affirmed the divinity of Christ and condemned Arianism (Unitarianism). The creed states:

> "We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father."

The Johannine Comma and Its Impact
The Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7- is a controversial passage that explicitly mentions the Trinity: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." However, this passage is absent in many early manuscripts and is considered a later addition, raising questions about its authenticity and its role in supporting Trinitarian doctrine.

Bible Translations and Editions
Various translations and editions of the Bible have been used to support either Trinitarian or Unitarian concepts. For instance:

King James Version (KJV) includes the Johannine Comma, which bolsters Trinitarian claims.
New International Version (NIV) and other modern translations often omit or provide footnotes regarding the Comma, reflecting ongoing debates about its validity.

The concept of the Trinity and its rejection in Islam highlight fundamental theological differences between the two faiths. While Christianity has historically grappled with the nature of God through the lenses of Trinitarianism and Unitarianism, Islam firmly upholds the oneness of God. The historical contributions of figures like Arius, Athanasius, and Constantine, along with the development of creeds and the impact of biblical translations, continue to shape the discourse surrounding these profound theological issues.

"The creedal foundation of any religion shouldn't be debatable or subjected to one or more council votes! It should be derived directly from the religious scripture with clear proofs! Whoever refuses to believe in it is out of the fold of that religion! Alhamdulillah for the light of Islam."

Antlislaam:
You sha never answer our question, you ran away when the pressure was much on you


You never answer who the partners of allah are for using WE, OUR, etc when islam, arab or Quran are not the originator of royal we

Kukutente23:
The dumb Op forgets that just as in the bible, the Qur'an acknowledges that Allah has a spirit

It acknowledged that Allah has a frame with hands, eyes, nose, legs etc

It acknowledges that Jesus was formed not from clay like other humans but the breath of God

The three above are the basis for trinity.
The word trinity does not exist in the bible. It is a concept drawn out of studying the bible about the nature of God
These nature are inherently present in the Qur'an too. That God is one is also present in the bible.
More importantly as the poster above mentioned, the Qur'an uses plural We for Allah with no explanation why that is so.
Thus, trinity is also present in the Qur'an

AntiChristian:
Allah created the Ruh (Soul). Nowhere in the Qur'an did Allah particularly says He has a Spirit! Na lie!


Allah creates a soul/Spirit for the humans he creates and this can be seen in the cases of Adam and Jesus.

15:29 So when I have fashioned him and had a spirit of My Own ˹creation˺ breathed into him, fall down in prostration to him.”

5:110 And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour upon you and your mother: how I supported you with the holy spirit

This is another lie!

Lie 2 - Allah never said he has a frame.....!

Allah has hands, feet and eyes but they are as befit His majesty and not what we can comprehend!

Where did Allah say He has nose and Legs?

But na him mama still born am!
Jesus didn't drop from heaven like Adam! He was given birth to! Adam and Even were created without birth!

Alhamdulillah, you agree Trinity does not exist in the Bible! It was smuggled in the KJV and later removed!
What is clear is that you inserted trinity that is not in the Bible into it. You are trying to do the same to the Qur'an. The Jews who read the same scriptures as you never saw trinity in it.

Allah often refers to Himself using the pronoun "nahnu," which translates to "We." This is understood as a royal we, signifying majesty and grandeur. The use of plural pronouns in the Qur'an is a feature of Arabic literary style, intended to convey respect and glorification. It emphasizes Allah's sovereignty and power.

This is what is available till the Councils brought trinity!

Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary)” [Al-Maa'idah 5:17]

“Surely, disbelievers are those who said: ‘Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity).’ But there is no Ilaah (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilaah (God —Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them” [Al-Maa'idah 5:73]

“O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (‘Be’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you” [Al-Nisa’ 4:171]

Kukutente23:


This one too has come with his ignorance. So because the word Trinity does not exist in the Bible means the description of trinity is not correct? Can you show me the word "sujud" in your quran? If it is not there, why then do you do it five times everyday? Trinity is a concept drawn from the Bible just as the divine conception and virgin birth are drawn from the Bible. They are theological concept with sound basis from the Bible and I am showing you that they also exist in your quran

DeepSight:


I think he is refering to the Johannine Comma, also known as the Comma Johanneum in 1 John 5:7-8.

Kukutente23:

The Johanine Comma does not disprove the existence of Trinity throughout the Bible and Quran.

DeepSight:


It shows that a certain words were inserted in the KJV which have now been removed from ALL modern versions of the Bible - those words being the most explicit assertion of the doctrine of the Trinity in scripture ever. At the minimum, it proves there was a fraudulent attempt to insert the Trinity into scripture. And that alone is sufficient to demonstrate that one cannot subscribe to biblical innerancy.

Kukutente23:

That's one way to look at it. Another way is it shows that the Bible is actively being guarded against insertions and corruption. Any attempt to corrupt it is rebuffed strongly.
Unlike the quran that all other copies were burned after Uthman gave everyone his version so there's no way of knowing if there's anything there that shouldn't be, the septuagint, Masoteric Texts, Vulgates and even Dead Sea scrolls generally agree with the message in the Bible till today.

Kukutente23:

That's one way to look at it. Another way is it shows that the Bible is actively being guarded against insertions and corruption. Any attempt to corrupt it is rebuffed strongly.
Unlike the quran that all other copies were burned after Uthman gave everyone his version so there's no way of knowing if there's anything there that shouldn't be, the septuagint, Masoteric Texts, Vulgates and even Dead Sea scrolls generally agree with the message in the Bible till today.

Kukutente23:


Lying Islamist. Must you lie? Explain the verses below then if you say Allah does not have a spirit and he created a spirit for every human he created.

So who is lying now. You also have to show from the quran where it is written that Jesus was created from same source like Adam. You're lying against the quran!!

Ok. So his hands, feet and eyes are just hanging around without frame. When we say you Islamists are dumb and ignorant people will think we are abusing you. So from 15:29 above, Allah breathed his Spirit into man without having a nose abi? You are just a normal dumb Islamist. At least you cannot deny that Alah has feet your claim now is he has feet without legs Stop making me laugh abeg with your buffoonery

Another dumb take. Can you give an example of any man born by his mother without intercourse from his father? Was Jesus made from same source like Adam according to the quran? If no, then what was the nature of Jesus' conception? Also if you agree that Adam was created without birth and Jesus was born without intercourse, can you explain how Muhammad is the most perfect man according to you clowns? Cause if he is, then it means Adam and Jesus are not men since they did not come from man

This one too has come with his ignorance. So because the word Trinity does not exist in the Bible means the description of trinity is not correct? Can you show me the word "sujud" in your quran? If it is not there, why then do you do it five times everyday? Trinity is a concept drawn from the Bible just as the divine conception and virgin birth are drawn from the Bible. They are theological concept with sound basis from the Bible and I am showing you that they also exist in your quran

I have asked you before and I will ask you again. Show me from pre-Islamic arabic literature where royal We was ever used in Arabic. Show from either the hadith or quran where Allah said he uses We to refer to his majesty and grandeur. Those are just your baseless interpretation not found on any logic or fact. The simple answer is YOU DON"T KNOW!!

Muhammad was as confused as you his followers are about what trinity stands for. That's why you keep going about in circle of ignorance.

AntiChristian:


Who are the originators of Royal we?

AntiChristian:
You are the one telling lies! Firstly, you should note that what you call spirit (Rooh) is also the soul in Islam!

1. Allah says in the case of Jesus...
The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (‘Be’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you” [Al-Nisa’ 4:171]

The above clearly shows Allah created a soul for Jesus. This is the same as in the verse you quoted:

"So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him." Al-Hijr 15:29

Compared to:

Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Genesis 2:7

That's Qur'an 3:59. Allah says :Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.

Muslims don't give Allah what He doesn't associate for Himself. Show us where He mentioned a frame for Himself? A human needs nose to breath! Allah is not human! Also a human can have feet with legs. Show us where Allah mention he has legs? You are simply a liar.

Only Jesus had no father but mother. So genetically his DNA is wholly from his mother. Adam and Eve are superior in that they were not carried in any womb nor were they given birth to, suckled by a woman from infancy! The question is not about perfection! Perfection is not dependent on how you came into the world! Adam would surpass Jesus if you were to use that criteria. Adam was a Prophet in Islam but not a messenger. Jesus and Muhammad were both messengers. And a Messenger is superior to a Prophet!

Sujud (Prostration) is mentioned many times in the Qu'ran! Cure your ignorance!

1. Surely those who are with your Lord (angels) are never too proud to perform acts of worship to Him, but they glorify His Praise and prostrate before Him. [al-A'raf 7:206]

2. And unto Allah (Alone) falls in prostration whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and so do their shadows in the mornings and in the afternoons. [al-Ra’d 13:15]

3. And to Allah prostrate all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, of the live moving creatures and the angels, and they are not proud [i.e., they worship their Lord (Allah) with humility]. [al-Nahl 16:49]

4. Say (O Muhammad): Believe in it (the Quran) or do not believe (in it). Verily! Those who were given knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, fall down on their faces in humble prostration. [al-Isra 17:107-109]

5. When the Verses of the Most Beneficent (Allah) were recited unto them, they fell down prostrating and weeping. [Maryam 19:58]

6. See you not that to Allah prostrates whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and al-dawab (moving living creatures, beasts, etc.), and many of mankind? But there are many (men) on whom the punishment is justified. And whomsoever Allah disgraces, none can honour him. Verily! Allah does what He wills. [al-Hajj 22:18]

7. O you who believe! Bow down, and prostrate yourselves, and worship your Lord and do good that you may be successful. [al-Hajj 22:77]

8. And when it is said to them: Prostrate to the Most Beneficent (Allah)! They say, And what is the Most Beneficent? Shall we fall down in prostration to that which you (O Muhammad) command us? And it increases in them only aversion. [al-Furqan 25:60]

9. [As Shaytan has barred them from Allah's Way] so that they do not worship (prostrate before) Allah, Who brings to light what is hidden in the heavens and the earth, and knows what you conceal and what you reveal. [al-Naml 27:25, 26]

10. Only those believe in Our ayat (verses, signs, etc.) who, when they are reminded of them, fall down prostrate, and glorify the Praises of their Lord, and they are not proud. [al-Sajdah 32:15]

11. Fall prostrate and draw near to Allah! [al-’Alaq 96:19] (See Fiqh al-Sunnah by Sheikh Sayyid Sabiq, 186-188)

I don't have any pre-islamic literature to show you as our literature is mainly Islamic not pre-Islamic. It is pointless arguing with you!
The best proves are from the Qur'an!

{Had there been therein (in the heavens and the earth) gods besides Allah, then verily, both would have been ruined. Glorified be Allah, the Lord of the Throne, (High is He) above all that (evil) they associate with Him!} [Al-Anbiya’ 21:22 – interpretation of the meaning]

{And your God is One God (Allah), La ilaha illa Huwa (there is none who has the right to be worshipped but He), the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.} [Al-Baqarah 2:163 – interpretation of the meaning]

{Are many different lords (gods) better or Allah, the One, the Irresistible?} [Yusuf 12:39 – interpretation of the meaning]

{Say (O Muhammad): Praise and thanks be to Allah, and peace be on His slaves whom He has chosen (for His Message)! Is Allah better, or (all) that you ascribe as partners (to Him)?” (Of course, Allah is Better).

Is there any god with Allah? Say: ‘Bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful’} [Al-Naml 27:59-64 – interpretation of the meaning]

Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allah, (the) One.

The thread clearly shows Trinity was ratified by votes in the council of Nicaea!

Antlislaam:


Boya your mind is not in what we are teaching you here, this your above question had been answered before but you decided not to learn


king Henry II was the originator of royal we in the late twelfth century, he was a British king who holds a high office to refer to themselves

AntiChristian:


When was it originated exactly?