I did not want to comment on this thread before but I am only doing so because most of the major parties whose actions or inactions affect this section are here. If I wanted to do any mediation I would have had to create another thread and that wouldn't make sense.

It is obvious that there are three knds of people that visit this section, they are:

Category 1: Those who come here to share information and knowledge with their fellow Muslims and those who are genuinely interested in finding out more about Islam.

Category 2: Those who come here to ask genuine questions and learn more about Islam.

Category 3: Those who come here with a well thought-out and detailed agenda.

Now, the only group we can do without are Category 3. The people with the responsibility of dealing effectively with them are the moderators.
How do we minimise the malaise of Category 3?

It is very simple the moderators must actively screen threads that are created. To remove those that are in bad taste and aimed at taunting Muslims. The creators of such threads should be banned if they persist. By the time you ban like 20 people and block their IPs if need be, other people will take note and be of good behaviour.

Unfortunately, Jarus is too busy to do this at the moment and the same goes for Mukina2. I hereby suggest that we get a new moderator to assist them. This person would wield the big stick against erring parties. Trust me if I took this job most erring parties would feel the heat. Unfortunately, I am too busy at the moment and will decline to offer myself for the job. I have carefully thought about other people that would best fit this position and Sweetnecta's name stands out for me.

So if Sweetnecta will take this job, I am willing to support him by pointing out serial offenders to make this section a better place, I hope other people here will also do the same.

Mukina2 and Jarus in particular, I would like to know your thoughts on this presentation.

Thank you.

BetaThings:

Salaam
What you seek is not achievable
Look at it this way. Muslims would allow their children to go to christian schools and mingle with them
Christians use the opportunity to convert them
If you have a christian staying with a muslim, the muslim is not likely to make praying the islamic way compulsory for that christian
Not so the christians, you will be sending anyone you know to hell if you allow them stay with christians
they will do whatever to convert that person
Islam came to the SW before christianity. Starting from an underdog position, the christians organised themselves thoroughly and started making inroads while the unsuspecting muslims continued to co-operate with them
A lot of muslims were converted forcibly at school. I think Otedola's father (Sir Michael) is in this category
If you ask a lot of old people, they will tell you their experience

you are talking politics here.the fact that christians have found inroads to convert muslims,only show the failure of the muslims.thank God for Shia Islam.

The shias are the underdogs in Nigeria
They have also decided to organise themselves  
Now they know they are trying to convert sunnis, so they study the aqeeda of sunnis and try to refute it
The sunnis have never really seen so much of the shias in Nigeria
They never bothered to take shias seriously. A lot of them don't even know they exist

brother you are either lost or astray.what is "suni aqaeda"? to love the enemies of the Ahlul-Bayt (as)?is that your aqeda?that is shameful! you are even so annoying using the word "convert" as if the Shia are from another religion.

The shias want to trick us into believing they want to exist side by side
Nothing can be further from the truth

you are ridiculous.exist side by side? do you have the right or power to deny any nigerian from living in nigeria because of what he believes?are you really nigerian? you think you are in saudi? there are hindu temples,christian places of worship from all denominations and even bahai place of worship in lagos.who do you think you can exercise right over?are you for real?or its just the feeling of guilt and threat you are experiencing?

Look at the way somebody was saying even the prophet recognised shiatu Ali
How does a leader recognise a sect/follower, loyalist of one of his own followers

read your books.bother,you are more annoying than Vedaxcool in one way.while you dont insult,you actually use your ignorance to judge others.that is pathetic.you dont even know what i am talking about.you dont even know if there is evidence to support my statement.you know well sunnis have a hadith where the Prophet (sa) foresaw the ummah splitting.so what are you saying?Imam Ali (as) used to be hated because of the brave warrior for islam he was.he had very close associates among the sahaba and the Prophet (sa) referred to them as "shiat Ali".read brother!dont be a jahil!

Sister - read about the Shias - there are different sects in their midst (twelvers, seveners, fivers etc)
Some shias say things that make them clear kuffars

in sunnism,you have sufis,salafis/wahhabis,hanafis,malikis,hanbalis,shafiis,and ahmadiyyah.they all unite in hating the Shia just as the kuffar have united in hating islam and muslims.

those who are Shia are the followers of the 12 Imams (as).those you called "seveners" are an offshoot and are called ismailis.then you have the zaidis.these ones can be seen as "offshoots" as you also have ahmadiyyah and wahhabiyyah in sunnism.your words are irritating because of ignrance!

A lot of christians here abuse Allah and the Prophet (PBUH) so I am not allowed to discuss with them

If we co-operate here and post true islamic aqeeda, rather than the clear misguidance and bidah that Shias expound, we have nothing to fear from christians

But the shias are a different case.
We should not allow ourselves to be lulled to sleep

we have so far only being able to exposed the sunni bid'ah of taraweeh,misyarand other bid'ah they follow by annulling the prophetic tradition.

christians have being on the rampage here and your likes can do little to stop them.

@maclatunji
"To remove those that are in bad taste and aimed at taunting Muslims"?

are you trying to decide who is "muslim" and who is not?

so i guess i may afterall not meet the category of being "muslim" based on your definition?are you passing takfir on me and my shia brothers?

It is obvious that there are three knds of people that visit this section, they are:

Category 1: Those who come here to share information and knowledge with their fellow Muslims and those who are genuinely interested in finding out more about Islam.

Category 2: Those who come here to ask genuine questions and learn more about Islam.

Category 3: Those who come here with a well thought-out and detailed agenda

i just come here because its an open forum. I didnt use to, actually.

i'm not muslim but would say i'm a bit conversant with the ones among them who interact with others.


in addition, i also just found out yesterday that a friend of mine married a practicing muslim.

rather surprising but God is in control.

He knows the reason for everything.

LagosShia:

@maclatunji
"To remove those that are in bad taste and aimed at taunting Muslims"?

are you trying to decide who is "muslim" and who is not?

so i guess i may afterall not meet the category of being "muslim" based on your definition?are you passing takfir on me and my shia brothers? 

You are a kafir period and there is nothing you can do to change your status as a kafir among fellow muslims. I also want to warn you to desist from hating them because they regard you as a kafir because it is not their fault, rather it is the fault of Islamic religion as a whole because Muhammad engraved discrimination in the Islamic ideology.

LagosShia:

@maclatunji
"To remove those that are in bad taste and aimed at taunting Muslims"?

are you trying to decide who is "muslim" and who is not?

so i guess i may afterall not meet the category of being "muslim" based on your definition?are you passing takfir on me and my shia brothers?

LagosShia, did I mention anybody's name? Did I say anything about Sunni or Shia? I am surprised at your post. My initial post was clear, each individual knows where he falls. If you don't know, I am not one to take categorisations the Prophet (SAW) did not make in his lifetime seriously. By the way, it is not impossible that a Muslim could taunt other Muslims.

Eti e gbo. ewo ni ti aloy nimu emeka?

Awa imale nsoro, kiriyo ara e nda wun

Awa musulumi nbara wa soro, keferi ara e nyoja yoton.

Joo sun si waju.

maclatunji:

It is obvious that there are three knds of people that visit this section, they are:

Category 1: Those who come here to share information and knowledge with their fellow Muslims and those who are genuinely interested in finding out more about Islam.

Category 2: Those who come here to ask genuine questions and learn more about Islam.

Category 3: Those who come here with a well thought-out and detailed agenda.

Now, the only group we can do without are Category 3. The people with the responsibility of dealing effectively with them  are the moderators.
How do we minimise the malaise of Category 3?

A) In all honesty, I see your Category 3 as a veiled reference to LagosShia.  I apologise if I am wrong, and appreciate it if you would give example(s) of those who fit this category.  After all, if you really want to deal with the issue, you might as well start getting real - time to be honest, upfront and candid.

B) In which of those three categories would you place Anti-Islamic Propagandists like Frosbel, Aloy-Emeka, Toba (to a lesser extent), etc. who run rampant unchecked in this section?  Or is that a 4th category?

C) Do you find LagosShia to be more offensive and more the "group we can do without" than those who despise Muslims and boldly say such, in this section, repeatedly openly and with impunity?

Thanks.

isale_gan2:

A) In all honesty, I see your Category 3 as a veiled reference to LagosShia.  I apologise if I am wrong, and appreciate it if you would give example(s) of those who fit this category.  After all, if you really want to deal with the issue, you might as well start getting real - time to be honest, upfront and candid.

B) In which of those three categories would you place Anti-Islamic Propagandists like Frosbel, Aloy-Emeka, Toba (to a lesser extent), etc. who run rampant unchecked in this section?  Or is that a 4th category?

C) Do you find LagosShia to be more offensive and more the "group we can do without" than those who despise Muslims and boldly say such, in this section, repeatedly openly and with impunity?

Thanks.

I did not want to mention names because I am rapidly forming the opinion that people cannot take many of my words for what they simply are. I am blessed with the ability to express myself well in English. Hence, I choose my words very carefully. Yet, people have managed severally to misinterpret things I say.

Now regarding your questions,  I would put Frosbel and Aloy/Emeka in Category C definitely. LagosShia I wouldn't because although we cannot agree on everything he says, he shows enough decorum in expressing his points.

When I say there are people we can do without, I mean that they should be encouraged to change their ways or banned if need be. To be honest, I think Toba and Tpia@ have changed a great deal in 2011. They have learnt to show more respect for Muslims even if by virtue of their beliefs they cannot help being irritating to the average Muslim sometimes.

Sadly, there are some Muslims whose behaviour is totally unacceptable if we want to be honest. You have to understand that I shouldn't be mentioning names because it goes contrary to the aim of conflict resolution but people know when they create threads just to be vindictive and/or when they make spiteful comments. I am saying they should curb themselves or we should curb them to make this section more habitable.

Isale gan2, you have forced me to mention names which I did not want to do. I prefer to deal with guidelines and principles for this section which are things I think we should focus on.

The principles in my initial posts are clear. It is not aimed at any particular individual(s), it is just to provide a solution to a problem. Granted, some people will be affected but it will be because of their behaviour not because of their beliefs or what they choose to be.

I hope you understand this as I have tried to explain as best I can.

Thank you.

Still don't have any comment to made.

LagosShia:

you are talking politics here.the fact that christians have found inroads to convert muslims,only show the failure of the muslims.thank God for Shia Islam.

Of course it is politics. How did christianity come in? Did the colonial masters prepare the way for Muslim scholars to preach
No they violently conquered and colonised Africa and the "peaceful" christian missionaries followed on their heels
I cannot see how Shias stopped them from converting the likes of Sir Otedola at school

LagosShia:


brother you are either lost or astray.what is "suni aqaeda"? to love the enemies of the Ahlul-Bayt (as)?is that your aqeda?that is shameful! you are even so annoying using the word "convert" as if the Shia are from another religion.

The Sunni agenda is simple = whatever you can find evidence for as having being legislated by the Prophet (the Sunnah), do it
We love all the caliphs. We love the family of the Prophet. Far more than you do
But the Shias daily commit sins of judging the companions of the Prophet. The Prophet specifically asked us not to
That is for Allah to do

How can I marry my daughter to my enemy? How can I name my children after my enemies?
But Ali (RA) married his daughter (Umm Khultum) to Umar (RA)
Ali (RA) also named his children Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman
Did Ali (RA) also love the "enemies" of Ahlul-Bayt

LagosShia:


you are ridiculous.exist side by side? do you have the right or power to deny any nigerian from living in nigeria because of what he believes?are you really nigerian? you think you are in saudi? there are hindu temples,christian places of worship from all denominations and even bahai place of worship in lagos.who do you think you can exercise right over?are you for real?or its just the feeling of guilt and threat you are experiencing?

Somebody is recommending that Shias and Muslims should not attack one another. That is the meaning of living side by side. I hardly bothered with the misguidance and falsehood you propagate here until you posted to counter a thread I originated
It became clear to me that you are not content with staying on your queue of bid'ah
I don't go to christian section to post because my concern is to learn about proper Islamic aqeeda. If a muslim purifies his aqeeda, there is no fear of falling into the traps of shirk which christianity represents. And I don't even recognise the deeds of whoever abuses Allah and his Messenger. So i no longer discuss with christians who do these

But since you typically pretend that we have the same beliefs, but you came to my thread to abrogate some authentic ahadeeth, it would be silly to just ignore you. What is being Nigerian have to do with issues here. Fact is Sunnis should not pretend that Shias would respect any agreement not to attack one another.

LagosShia:


read your books.bother,you are more annoying than Vedaxcool in one way.while you dont insult,you actually use your ignorance to judge others.that is pathetic.you dont even know what i am talking about.you dont even know if there is evidence to support my statement.you know well sunnis have a hadith where the Prophet (sa) foresaw the ummah splitting.so what are you saying?Imam Ali (as) used to be hated because of the brave warrior for islam he was.he had very close associates among the sahaba and the Prophet (sa) referred to them as "shiat Ali".read brother!dont be a jahil!

What ignorance? It is better to be ignorant than to have abundant knowledge of bid'ah
Yes, the Prophet (PBUH) said the Ummah would split into 72+1 and only one would be on the right guidance. So?
You are free to be among the 72. But don't pass it off as the Sunnah.
Anyone can have some wrong aqeeda, but when Kulaini elevates your imam to the status of gods eg
"The Imams know when they will die, and they do not die except by their own choice"
"No one compiled the Qur'an completely except the Imams, and they encompass all of its knowledge"
"All of the earth belongs to the Imams"
It becomes difficult to accept that we practise the same thing

And will your long-awaited Imam live side by side with people when he eventually arises?

LagosShia:


those who are Shia are the followers of the 12 Imams (as).those you called "seveners" are an offshoot and are called ismailis.then you have the zaidis.these ones can be seen as "offshoots" as you also have ahmadiyyah and wahhabiyyah in sunnism.your words are irritating because of ignrance!

we have so far only being able to exposed the sunni bid'ah of taraweeh,misyarand other bid'ah they follow by annulling the prophetic tradition.

christians have being on the rampage here and your likes can do little to stop them.

Tell us the exact differences between you guys. don't gloss over
Someone who says it is proper to make dua through dead people like Sufis do is different from one who denounces a fundamental aspect of your beliefs

BetaThings:

Of course it is politics. How did christianity come in? Did the colonial masters prepare the way for Muslim scholars to preach
No they violently conquered and colonised Africa and the "peaceful" christian missionaries followed on their heels
I cannot see how Shias stopped them from converting the likes of Sir Otedola at school

this is the failure of African muslims and the yorubas to be precise.Yoruba muslims are too liberal and lenient.

in India for instance where there is a large Shia presence and in Pakistan as well where the founder of Pakistan and its first leader was Shia,the colonial masters were not successful as we observe in africa.besides,whether shia or sunni,it is the failure of the muslims to educate their children in islam and comparative religion studies that leads the christian missionaries to succeed in converting our children to christianity and its evils.i am dismayed because you are trying to make a comparison between the christian unbelievers and the Shia Muslims.that is most unfair for someone who claims to be muslim to do.you are the one encouraging stupid comments by the likes of "aloy/emeka".you are causing division.

The Sunni agenda is simple = whatever you can find evidence for as having being legislated by the Prophet (the Sunnah), do it
We love all the caliphs. We love the family of the Prophet. Far more than you do
But the Shias daily commit sins of judging the companions of the Prophet. The Prophet specifically asked us not to
That is for Allah to do

the Prophet (sa) asked us not to do that? where is that? the Quran asks us to enjoin good and forbid evil,right?we do not pass judgement on any companion.we only talk about their past and we dont lie or live in denial about islamic history.islam teaches us to be honest,right?it was the companions who drew judgement against themselves when they slaughtered themselves in wars.now we either face reality and accept the truth of historical events and save islam from being painted in the light of some evil men as the shia do,or we accept all the companions both good and bad among them and let islam be judged for their actions as sunnis do.

How can I marry my daughter to my enemy? How can I name my children after my enemies?
But Ali (RA) married his daughter (Umm Khultum) to Umar (RA)
Ali (RA) also named his children Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman
Did Ali (RA) also love the "enemies" of Ahlul-Bayt

brother,this idea of Imam Ali (as) having children with the names of abu bakr,umar and usthman,is only an issue that deceitful people try to make as evidence of love.it is not like Imam Ali (as) sequentially named his children in the sequence of the three caliphs.there were staunch followers,diehard supporters and loyalists of Imam Ali (as) that were called by those names.so dont wonder why he named his children with those names.also those names were not copyrighted by the three evil caliphs sunnis worship.face the facts.those names were ancient arabic names before even the 3 caliphs were born.so the caliphs got nothing to do with the names of the children of Imam Ali (as).

as for the alleged marriage of the daughter of Imam Ali (as) to the killer of Fatima (as),Umar,that is a whole discussion on its own.

we can really discuss these differences in another thread and not in this thread where it is meant to restore peace.

Somebody is recommending that Shias and Muslims should not attack one another. That is the meaning of living side by side. I hardly bothered with the misguidance and falsehood you propagate here until you posted to counter a thread I originated

it seems you are just another abnormal fellow whose brain is infested with wahhabism and its sponsored ideas and beliefs."shias and muslims" you typed!!!!.so shias are not muslims?well you must be the one that is not muslim.because the Prophet (sa) said anyone who believes in LA ILAHA ILLALLAH MUHAMMAD RASULULAH is a muslim and anyone who calls him a kafir is himself the kafir.so you have proved yourself to be a kafir based on the words of the Prophet Muhammad (sa).

It became clear to me that you are not content with staying on your queue of bid'ah
I don't go to christian section to post because my concern is to learn about proper Islamic aqeeda. If a muslim purifies his aqeeda, there is no fear of falling into the traps of shirk which christianity represents. And I don't even recognise the deeds of whoever abuses Allah and his Messenger. So i no longer discuss with christians who do these

you can keep hiding in your hole and the christians will come get you there or may be they will first get your children who will get rid of you.keep hiding.i dont think that is a way to learn anything.

But since you typically pretend that we have the same beliefs, but you came to my thread to abrogate some authentic ahadeeth, it would be silly to just ignore you. What is being Nigerian have to do with issues here. Fact is Sunnis should not pretend that Shias would respect any agreement not to attack one another.

when you talk of "attack",we do not go into sunni administered mosques and blow ourselves in them.it is the wahhabis that do that in places of shia worship in the middle east and pakistan and last month during Ashura in afghanistan.we attack you with our brains and word using the pen."the pen is mightier than the sword",that is what our Prophet Muhammad (sa) taught us.not to kill innocent people for not believing as we do.that is the perversion of the wahhabis aka salafists that you are clearly influenced by their thoughts.the Quran says :"no compulsion in religion".

you presented no authentic hadiths.those so called authentic hadiths aimed to institute the fast on ashura sunnis follow and conceal the tragedy of Imam Hussain (as) are fabricated to wipe of the genuine meaning of ashura which relates to Imam Husssain (as).a hadith which contradict the calendar date cannot be authentic.i told you that.but you are not here to reason.you are here to impose as the wahhabis do.and you will fail.you are a minority even among sunnis.

What ignorance? It is better to be ignorant than to have abundant knowledge of bid'ah
Yes, the Prophet (PBUH) said the Ummah would split into 72+1 and only one would be on the right guidance. So?
You are free to be among the 72. But don't pass it off as the Sunnah.
Anyone can have some wrong aqeeda, but when Kulaini elevates your imam to the status of gods eg
"The Imams know when they will die, and they do not die except by their own choice"
"No one compiled the Qur'an completely except the Imams, and they encompass all of its knowledge"
"All of the earth belongs to the Imams"
It becomes difficult to accept that we practise the same thing

And will your long-awaited Imam live side by side with people when he eventually arises?

you are bringing up too many redherrings.you are lost.i can only answer you in details in the appropriate place.

"And everything We have detailed for you in a clear Imam." (Holy Quran 36:12)

Tell us the exact differences between you guys. don't gloss over

So why do you see the piece of sawdust in another believer's eye and not notice the wooden plank in your own eye?

why dont you tell us what is the difference of the sunnis and the wahhabis aka salafists for instance?or the ahmadiyyah heretical sect that came from sunnism in pakistan and believes that their founder is a prophet?are you not ashamed?

as for us Shia,the Prophet (sa) even in sunni books is reported to have said that there would be 12 caliphs.those who believe in the 12 leaders of the ummah prophesied by the Prophet (sa) are mainstream shia you referred to as "twelvers".the seveners or ismailis stopped at the 7 seventh Imam and the zaidis who are beloved to us even to this day despite our differences stopped at the fifth.and there are sometimes geographical barriers or reasons,persecution and other times fitnah mongers who caused confusion.but we need not to get confused with names and identifying anyone.let us concentrate what the Prophet (sa) taught in your own books and let us see who is right.

Someone who says it is proper to make dua through dead people like Sufis do is different from one who denounces a fundamental aspect of your beliefs

why do you use your ignorance to judge others?is it a padlock that you have placed over your head or heart?

if we appeal to Allah for the sake of His most beloved ,Muhammad (sa),i dont think that is what your brothers in sunnism called sufis do.you should know better what they do.

It's high time i add my voice to the raging issue. I find what is happening on this thread and similar thread totally absurd, is this what is next on the piority list. Is this how we are going to fund our brothers education? Is this what will give us fund to establish our university? Is this how we'll educate the ummah? Is this how we'll establish islamic hospital? Enough of all these rubbish. We are all MUSLIMS, and that is all.

olawalebab:

It's high time i add my voice to the raging issue. I find what is happening on this thread and similar thread totally absurd, is this what is next on the piority list. Is this how we are going to fund our brothers education? Is this what will give us fund to establish our university? Is this how we'll educate the ummah? Is this how we'll establish islamic hospital? Enough of all these rubbish. We are all MUSLIMS, and that is all.

Of course we are all muslims but you will also agree with me that Ayotallah Lagos-Bin-shia is a keferi, true or false?.

Aloy, pls you'll do yourself a lot of goods to stay off this thread.

@ maclatunji

i'm not sure what you mean by tpia has learnt to show respect for muslims.

Can you back this up with evidence of anywhere you saw me disrespecting a muslim over their religion. Your statement is an erroneous one and based on projection, not fact.

The only muslim who i think i might have had issues with over religion and might have used strong language on, is abuzola. And anyone who wonders why can go through his posts to find out the reason.

I dont have the habit of attcking or arguing too much with people over religion- i think i've stated this more than once before. When a religious discussion gets too detailed and excessively complicated, i exit it or change the subject since such arguments weary my soul.

If you're referring to any incidents in the past involving mukina or another muslim, then i'm 100% sure the conflict would have been over a general matter, not a religious one.

I know many have been wondering why i havent been engaging in fiery rhetoric or heated argument with muslims over religion, since i'm very active in christian section and make no secret of my views. Well, you'll just have to keep wondering because i dont think i need to explain every little detail about myself to anybody. If anyone is losing sleep over what they think i am or am not doing, then they should snoop around for info they dont get from me.

So, i'd appreciate it if people stopped projecting on me. I will have issues and yes disrespect you if i feel you're espousing nazi ideology and showing this by attacking tribes eg the many yoruba denigrating threads rapant on nl, likewise the misogynistic ones. Or even if someone is jut a plain assshole or jackass with a god complex who wants to take panadol for someone else' s.tupid headache, but i do not disrespect muslims over religion and i have never done so. Anybody with evidence to the contrary should please post it here and bring it to my notice.

Point 1: If you want a debate, please move to another thread. I am speaking to LagosShia and Betathings.

Point 2: Tpia@, okay you are a really nice and sweet girl if you say so.

Where are the moderators? I have come-up with a proposal to move this section forward and they are not here to discuss it.

LagosShia:

i am dismayed because you are trying to make a comparison between the christian unbelievers and the Shia Muslims.that is most unfair for someone who claims to be muslim to do.you are the one encouraging silly comments by the likes of "aloy/emeka".you are causing division.

Again, Christians are not a problem to me. Alhamdu li Llah, if I and the people around me have proper aqeeda, I have no reason to bother with Christians. Their kufr is clear to all to see
The dangers posed by Shiism is not easily noticed.  Shias say salaam but can easily draw me close to shirk.

LagosShia:

the Prophet (sa) asked us not to do that? where is that? the Quran asks us to enjoin good and forbid evil,right?we do not pass judgement on any companion.we only talk about their past and we dont lie or live in denial about islamic history.islam teaches us to be honest,right?it was the companions who drew judgement against themselves when they slaughtered themselves in wars.now we either face reality and accept the truth of historical events and save islam from being painted in the light of some evil men as the shia do,or we accept all the companions both good and bad among them and let islam be judged for their actions as sunnis do.

"Do not revile my companions. By (Allah) in Whose Hand my soul is!, if any one of you spends gold (piled up) like (mount) 'Uhud it will not equal a pint of any one of them, nor its half." (al-Bukhari, Muslim, Abu-Dawud, at-Tirmidhi Ibn Majah, Ibn Hanbal)

It is wrong for us to arrogate to ourselves, in clear disobedience of the Prophet (PBUH), the right to judge the sahabas and pronounce them guilty or praiseworthy. If they have issues amongst themselves, let Allah judge them.
We are to stay out of it

LagosShia:

brother,this idea of Imam Ali (as) having children with the names of abu bakr,umar and usthman,is only an issue that deceitful people try to make as evidence of love.it is not like Imam Ali (as) sequentially named his children in the sequence of the three caliphs.there were staunch followers,diehard supporters and loyalists of Imam Ali (as) that were called by those names.so dont wonder why he named his children with those names.also those names were not copyrighted by the three evil caliphs sunnis worship.face the facts.those names were ancient arabic names before even the 3 caliphs were born.so the caliphs got nothing to do with the names of the children of Imam Ali (as).

And his so-called followers happen to share the same names with three (3!) of his “enemies”. Enemies so evil that he has to draw up special invocation against them!
How many “followers”? Are they so few that he just had to name 3 (THREE) of his children with same names as his enemies in order to please these followers
Copyright or not, the idea of Barack Obama naming his child Osama simply because Osama did not copyright the name is simply baffling.
What would happen when Ali heard the name Umar, Abu Bakr, Uthman in succession at home?
Sunnis accord all the rightly-guided caliphs the same respect. Sunnis do not worship anyone beside Allah. We do not even do tawassul through them
Tell me the words of your adhan that included another shahada for Ali, was it really being said during the time of the Prophet (PBUH) when Umar, Abu Bakr, Uthman were right there?

But we know those who are prepared to nearly kill themselves over a human being. Who have set a day aside for commemoration of that death.  Even though there were martyrs before those. But do not hold such special events for the prophet, not even for their first imam. People who when they want to seek favour from fellow members of their sect, ask  not in the name of Allah, not in the name of the Prophet, but in the name of another human being. Oh and they do tawassul through dead people.

LagosShia:

as for the alleged marriage of the daughter of Imam Ali (as) to the killer of Fatima (as),Umar,that is a whole discussion on its own.
we can really discuss these differences in another thread and not in this thread where it is meant to restore peace.

As you wish

LagosShia:

it seems you are just another abnormal fellow whose brain is infested with wahhabism and its sponsored ideas and beliefs."shias and muslims" you typed!!!!.so shias are not muslims?well you must be the one that is not muslim.because the Prophet (sa) said anyone who believes in LA ILAHA ILLALLAH MUHAMMAD RASULULAH is a muslim and anyone who calls him a kafir is himself the kafir.so you have proved yourself to be a kafir based on the words of the Prophet Muhammad (sa).

And your ideas are not sponsored?  You are so busy here for fun?
I don’t make takfir of people. But when you say Abu Bakr (RA), Umar Ibn Khattab (RA) and Uthman ibn Affan (RA), the first three of the 4 caliphs rightly guided by Allah (Subhanahu wa ta’ala)  are not muslims, where is that hadith?  It is also clear that you an Ahlu takfeer. Before you call somebody a kaafir, you must draw his attention to his error and if he persists in it, then you know that he does that knowingly
But then what I have outlined is aqeeda of Ahlu Sunnah wal Jamaah. Shias do not have that patience. They are anxious to do takfeer

LagosShia:

you can keep hiding in your hole and the christians will come get you there or may be they will first get your children who will get rid of you.keep hiding.i dont think that is a way to learn anything.

That is my personal problem, isn’t it?

LagosShia:

when you talk of "attack",we do not go into sunni administered mosques and blow ourselves in them.it is the wahhabis that do that in places of shia worship in the middle east and pakistan and last month during Ashura in afghanistan.we attack you with our brains and word using the pen."the pen is mightier than the sword",that is what our Prophet Muhammad (sa) taught us.not to kill innocent people for not believing as we do.that is the perversion of the wahhabis aka salafists that you are clearly influenced by their thoughts.the Quran says :"no compulsion in religion".

But when Hizbollah lodge those rockets into Israel, they don’t care of innocents die. The ruling Alawite (followers of Ali) sect in Syria has been killing people for months. Are there no innocents?  
So Wahhabis say that people should become muslims by force and yet Shias live in peace in SA, but there is no single Sunni mosque in Tehran.
Sunni scholars are being eliminated in Iran. The people who have been fighting Iran have been copying that idea –Very brilliant Iranian scientists are dying mysteriously and explosions are occurring at the nuclear plants in Iran. I am sad about this. But I am just pointing it out
Can you, by the way, bring one sunni fatwa approving of terrorism?

LagosShia:

you presented no authentic hadiths.those so called authentic hadiths aimed to institute the fast on ashura sunnis follow and conceal the tragedy of Imam Hussain (as) are fabricated to wipe of the genuine meaning of ashura which relates to Imam Husssain (as).a hadith which contradict the calendar date cannot be authentic.i told you that.but you are not here to reason.you are here to impose as the wahhabis do.and you will fail.you are a minority even among sunnis.

You can see why I originally said that what the OP wants is not achievable. I gave you ahadeeth from Bukhari, you negate them. So we should now look to Kulaini or Sistani or Khamenei for guidance?

LagosShia:

you are bringing up too many redherrings.you are lost.i can only answer you in details in the appropriate place.

Red herrings? These issues are germane. You ascribe to an ordinary mortal, a human being,  the attributes of the divine being (Alllah)

LagosShia:

"And everything We have detailed for you in a clear Imam." (Holy Quran 36:12)

Clear Imam or clear deception?
This is one of the verses used by Shias to deceive. It is accomplished by slicing and dicing!
If Christians quote the quran out of context, we scream, but a Shia is perhaps allowed to do that.
This is the full verse in its excellent clarity as revealed to the best mankind, Mohammed ibn Abdullah (PBUH)  by Allah (subhanahu wa ta ala) , the incomparable, divine, and the knower of ALL
Noble Qur’an,  36:12
“Indeed, it is We who bring the dead to life and record what they have put forth and what they left behind, and all things We have enumerated in a clear register”  (Sahih International)

“Verily, We give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before (them), and their traces [their footsteps and walking on the earth with their legs to the mosques for the five compulsory congregational prayers, Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) and all other good and evil they did, and that which they leave behind], and all things We have recorded with numbers (as a record) in a Clear Book.” (Muhsin Khan)

Lo! We it is Who bring the dead to life. We record that which they send before (them, and their footprints. And all things We have kept in a clear Register. (Pickthall)

Verily We shall give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before and that which they leave behind, and of all things have We taken account in a clear Book (of evidence). = (Yusuf Ali)

Fear Allah. Stop twisting the qur'an
I have used four different translations
Desperation can lead human beings to anything!

LagosShia:

So why do you see the piece of sawdust in another believer's eye and not notice the wooden plank in your own eye?
why dont you tell us what is the difference of the sunnis and the wahhabis aka salafists for instance?or the ahmadiyyah heretical sect that came from sunnism in pakistan and believes that their founder is a prophet?are you not ashamed?
as for us Shia,the Prophet (sa) even in sunni books is reported to have said that there would be 12 caliphs.those who believe in the 12 leaders of the ummah prophesied by the Prophet (sa) are mainstream shia you referred to as "twelvers".the seveners or ismailis stopped at the 7 seventh Imam and the zaidis who are beloved to us even to this day despite our differences stopped at the fifth.and there are sometimes geographical barriers or reasons,persecution and other times fitnah mongers who caused confusion.but we need not to get confused with names and identifying anyone.let us concentrate what the Prophet (sa) taught in your own books and let us see who is right.
why do you use your ignorance to judge others?is it a padlock that you have placed over your head or heart?
if we appeal to Allah for the sake of His most beloved ,Muhammad (sa),i dont think that is what your brothers in sunnism called sufis do.you should know better what they do.

Sawdust?
If I don’t agree that your imams are infallible, you scream that I am insulting them.
Ismailis DON’T recognize all your imams
Zaidis DON’T recognize all your imams
How can that be a small matter

The Ahmadiyyas are not muslims. Anybody disputing that is not a Muslim. I have a fatwa to that effect anyway. Ahmadiyyahs or Qadianiyyahs are followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. The Prophet (PBUH) is the last of the Messengers. Muslims agree on this! The followers of Ahmad believe that Prophethood did not end with Muhammad (PBUH), that  it is ongoing, and that Allaah sends a messenger when there is a need, and that Ghulam Ahmad is one of the Prophets.

Why should I be ashamed of what Ahmaddiya do? Am I one? Anyone trying to lay claim to originality will typically claim to be the original or majority group. That is one reason why they are not claiming to be shias. And of course even in their misguidance, they can see through the errors of shias

Now tell us the full text of the hadeeth on the 12 caliphs and the period. We can then  put right the misconceptions of the shias
Tawassul through the dead is SHIRK. Muslims with proper aqeeda knows that. Everyone needs to get the message before it is too late

the moderators cant do shitz here cos this is a public forum and i dont think seun would oblige such request to seclude a section. its like the christians telling seun to ban all non christians from being critical about chritianity. lm sure the mods cant do such BS as NL isnt anyone's personal ppty save for seun Osewa

@ maclatunji

you're still projecting as i pointed out before.

I really do not give a fig what anybody's opinion of me is, but what i dont appreciate is unnecessary slander.

I've asked anyone with evidence of me disrespecting muslims over their religion, to post it here for all to see.

I'm still waiting.

Now, just because i overlook certain things doesnt mean i dont notice them. In actual fact, I'm the one being disrespected by muslims but just because i didnt point this out first doesnt make it right.

You have thel ikes of bhusayor who attacked me for no reason on the hijab thread. I dont know this girl from adam unless there's something she's not telling me. She had a problem with my posts about hijab and out of the blue the woman just descended like a ton of bricks and launched very personal attacks which had nothing to do with the topic.

Likewise when Jarus first joined this forum he did the same. My seeming silence in the face of this hostility is not because i'm d.umb, ok?

I simply chose what i allow to rile me, and arguments over your religion isnt one of them.

Now, i know some are very annoyed that a kaffir/kemferi/ disbeliever is posting in Islamic section, but whoever had headache over that na them sabi.

After abuzola the only other person i've had a heated argument with is uplawal and even then i'm not sure it wasnt during the time when she was backing abuzola during his frenzied rhetoric.

So anyway, as i said before, i didnt use to frequent this section- maybe that's why some are taking it on themselves to declare jihad because they see me here.

Whatever!!!!

Whatever has a beginning will also have an end, so your seeing me in your section today doesnt mean you'll keep on seeing me there tomorrow.

Just be patient and i'll soon be gone. This is definitely not worth my while because these insults are getting too much. Its starting to sound like some igbos who almost grow a cow if they see me venturing an opinion on their thread.

Bye.

I do hope i've made my point here but if not then that's that.

I need to catch up on the news about the bombings today.

As per anyone who is annoyed by my being here- gbogbo yin le kan tie mo.

*shrugs*

who bloody cares.

toba:

the moderators cant do shitz here cos this is a public forum and i dont think seun would oblige such request to seclude a section. its like the christians telling seun to ban all non christians from being critical about chritianity. lm sure the mods cant do such BS as NL isnt anyone's personal ppty save for seun Osewa

I agree with you, I have never stated that Christians should be barred from this section (I really need to pray about this issue of people misinterpreting my posts)-SMH.

I have only said that people who want to post should do so with decorum, if you want to debate or disagree with anyone, do it with respect and not with insults or by trolling or spamming. This should be simple enough for anyone to understand irrespective of any religion you profess.

@Tpia, whatever makes you happy lady.

@Tpia, sorry if your feelings have been hurt before but one thing I know is that you have been studying Islam in more detail than most Christians. Hence, you are more interested in Muslim topics, like I said before elsewhere you are showing ability to be civil in your presentations. Other people have a condescending attitude and that should not be tolerated.

I have been reading your posts for a long time and I know you have changed, just take it as a compliment and not a  condemnation. Keep learning more about Islam, it can only make you better.

maclatunji:

I agree with you, I have never stated that Christians should be barred from this section (I really need to pray about this issue of people misinterpreting my posts)-SMH.

I have only said that people who want to post should do so with decorum, if you want to debate or disagree with anyone, do it with respect and not with insults or by trolling or spamming. This should be simple enough for anyone to understand irrespective of any religion you profess.

@Tpia, whatever makes you happy lady.

probably u may need to be more coherent for pple not to misunderstand u.

The fact remains that these 'acts' cuts across both sides. You must agree with me that, what the likes of Sweetnecta and Lagoshia do in the main religion board to diss Christians and the christian God can be likened to what the atheists do.

Pls don't ask for decorum when u cant tell Lagoshia to show respect for the views of others

It is not that I am not coherent but I think it is an issue of perception. To be honest, I cannot genuinely say that I know how people perceive my person but I have noticed that people read hidden meanings into things I post. Perhaps, I am a victim of my sarcasm on the politics section.

As for the issue of the religion section, I don't think the problem is the same, maybe some Muslims use the wrong words there but you don't have Muslims spamming that board like we have here. Moderation is key, I am telling you that if this Islam for Muslims section is adequately moderated, it will have a positive spin-off on the religion board.

spamming? no no no.

The christians on NAiraland receives the most bashing and i rem telling seun to do something in 2009. l didnt get a response but later we were told. that the across board bashing earns NL more traffic.

So i think Oluwaseun Osewa is more pleased with whats going on here.

In addition, i dont think pple spam in this section unlike the main Religion section

Toba, what about my xmas chicken?

Toba, what about my xmas chicken?

Xmas chicken ko, Xmas goat ni.

U did salah and non of u guys gave me meat.

Also the most precious thing i sort after in this section in the whole of 2011, maclatunji and Sweetnecta prevented me from having her it.

In 2012 i wouldnt post here again.

have you forgotten Mathew 7:7. Moreover, about her maybe you can cope with HER demand. try a little bit.