Western powers have likely been afraid that defending the rights of Christians in Muslim lands would be interpreted as showing partiality. It would not be partiality, of course, to demand impartiality in the protection of human rights by governments that claim in glowing generalities to have no problem doing just that.

Christians have lost heartbeats and heads while politicians dithered over "hearts and minds."

Christians seem to have been written off as collateral damage for the sake of political expediency and wishful thinking. They have been a consistent casualty of fantasy-based foreign policy that accepts as dogma the "tolerance" of Sharia, whose proponents have been the main beneficiaries of the past year's "Arab Spring." "How can we remain silent while Christians are being persecuted?" by Fraser Nelson for the Telegraph, December 24:

Father Immanuel Dabaghian, one of Baghdad’s last surviving priests, is expecting a quiet Christmas. To join him in the Church of the Virgin Mary means two hours of security checks and a body search at the door, and even then there’s no guarantee of survival. Islamist gunmen massacred 58 people in a nearby church last year, and fresh graffiti warns remaining worshippers that they could be next.

The Americans have gone now, and Iraq’s Christian communities – some of the world’s oldest – are undergoing an exodus on a biblical scale.

Of the country’s 1.4 million Christians, about two thirds have now fled. Although the British Government is reluctant to recognise it, a new evil is sweeping the Middle East: religious cleansing. The attacks, which peak at Christmas, have already spread to Egypt, where Coptic Christians have seen their churches firebombed by Islamic fundamentalists. In Tunisia, priests are being murdered. Maronite Christians in Lebanon have, for the first time, become targets of bombing campaigns. Christians in Syria, who have suffered as much as anyone from the Assad regime, now pray for its survival. If it falls, and the Islamists triumph, persecution may begin in earnest.
The idea of Christianity as a kind of contagion that is foreign to the Arab world is bizarre: it is, of course, a Middle Eastern religion successfully exported to the pagan West. Those feet, in ancient times, came nowhere near England’s mountains green. The Nativity is a Middle Eastern story about a child born to a Jewish mother, whose first visitors were three wise Iranians and who was then swept off to Egypt to escape Roman persecution. [, ]

But Islam appropriates Jesus into its own narrative to neutralize claims about his divinity and make room for Muhammad (dying for mankind's sins and rising from the dead are a tough act to follow). It claims Jesus as a Muslim, and posits its own revisionist account as true while rejecting the Gospels' message about Jesus as false.

These dividing lines are now being made into battle lines by hardline Salafists, who are emerging as victors of the Arab Spring. They belong to the same mutant strain of Sunni Islam which inspired al-Qaeda. Their agenda is sectarian warfare, and they loathe Shia Islam as much as they do Christians and Jews. Their enemy lies not over a border, but in a church, synagogue or Shia mosque. The Salafists may be detested by the Muslim mainstream [the vote in Egypt suggests otherwise -ed.]. But as they are finding out, you don’t need to be popular to seize power in a post-dictatorship Arab world – you just need to be the best organised. The West is so obsessed with government structure that it doesn’t notice when power lies elsewhere, and Islamist death squads are executing barbers and unveiled women in places like Basra. [, ]

The Foreign Office has been typically slow to recognise the gathering threat, despite repeated warnings. The biggest one of all came a fortnight ago, when the Archbishop of Canterbury opened a gripping debate in the Lords about the widening persecutions, and what the Government ought to do. Lord Patten, the former education secretary, revealed that he spent a year failing to persuade the Foreign Office to help a group of Anglicans in the Anatolian peninsula, who are banned from worshipping in any public place. “'The answer was no,’ he said. 'They would not approach the Turkish government to ask, 'Please can you ease up a bit?’” But when German Catholics were having trouble in the same place, Angela Merkel’s government intervened immediately, working with the Turks to send a Catholic priest to hold public worship.

So why the British reticence? It might be that the Foreign Office sees this as part of a soppy equalities agenda, unworthy of diplomatic attention. Those who have raised the issue directly with William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, say he is unenthusiastic. When Mr Hague visited Algeria recently, he did not raise its ban on any Christian activity outside state-licensed buildings.

When challenged, ministers deplore persecution in general – but, seemingly, not so much that they’d do something like pick up the phone to Ankara. Yet there is plenty Britain can do. Countries could be denied aid until Christians (or Jews, or Sunnis) are allowed to worship freely. British diplomats could be empowered, even instructed, to advocate freedom of religion. When a peer of the realm alerts the Foreign Office to some persecuted Anglicans, a red alert ought to sound. Mr Hague might even publish an annual audit of religious freedom in various countries, making clear its importance to Britain. It might make its own estimate about the scale of the flood of refugees. [, ]

Our friends in the Middle East are all waiting to hear from HM Government. Perhaps, in the new year, it might have something to say.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/8973118/How-can-we-remain-silent-while-Christians-are-being-persecuted.html

Egypt's Mubarak was an american ally.

Saudi Arabia's dictatorial wahhabi monarchy another american ally.

under Saddam,the Iraqi prime minister Tareq Aziz was christian.when america came in,churches were attacked.

in Iran,the indigenous christian community and the armenian churches are protected.

in Lebanon,Hezbollah the Shia Islamic party fighting israeli occupation is allied with the largest christian block in the lebanese parliament of General Michel Aoun of the Free Patriotic Movement.

in Syria,the christian bishops have voiced concern that if Bashar al-Assad's secular baath party is toppled extremist wahhabi influenced parties with saudi support could lead to christian massacres.saudi again is an american ally.

this only shows that the West does not care about the christians.the West cares about its interests.if wahhabi saudi arabia can support their interest,it shows the West doesn't mind befriending the devil.the future of the christians and muslims rest in coexistence and peaceful living to support themselves.following the exploits of the West and hate inspired missions will only lead to more disastrous consequences.

and as for you "frosbel",you have nothing to offer the christians in the middle east,the birth place of Jesus.do you know why? because most christians there are not considered christian by you.you see them as idol-worshippers because they are either catholic or of the catholic sister church orthodox.

also,a hypocrite like you jubilating that a muslim is jailed in france for the veil should just shut-up:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-830838.0.html

^^

'The first half of your post accurately describes the effects of Islamic Sharia law on an uneducated and poisoned people.

It is from a mind like yours that mass murder becomes the only release of your paranoid unjust petulant anger.'

frosbel:

^^

'The first half of your post accurately describes the effects of Islamic Sharia law on an uneducated and poisoned people.

It is from a mind like yours that mass murder becomes the only release of your paranoid unjust petulant anger.'

do you follow Sharia law? i wonder what makes you so sick!
your mental sickness is not hidden in the forum for all to see.

LagosShia:

do you follow Sharia law? i wonder what makes you so sick!
your mental sickness is not hidden in the forum for all to see.

We are in a full scale war here in the UK against Sharia , of which I am part.

David Cameron's eyes are gradually opening to this threat and laws will soon be in place to totally ban all Sharia related activities just like France is beginning to do.

Europe is waking up, and I fear for innocent Muslims.

frosbel:

We are in a full scale war here in the UK against Sharia , of which I am part.

David Cameron's eyes are gradually opening to this threat and laws will soon be in place to totally ban all Sharia related activities just like France is beginning to do.

Europe is waking up, and I fear for innocent Muslims.

suit yourself.but you fear nothing for innocent muslims because you are a grave liar and hater.you promote evil and inspire hate.and infact muslims do not need you to pity for them.pity for yourself.

I LOVE ALL PEACE LOVING MUSLIMS but I HATE THE THREAT OF FANATICAL ISLAM.

Period !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get it Sir !!

frosbel:

I LOVE ALL PEACE LOVING MUSLIMS but I HATE THE THREAT OF FANATICAL ISLAM.

Period !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get it Sir !!

so muslims are not killed by the likes of boko haram? what about the explosions on sallah?

so your insults against the Prophet (sa) and muslims is what would stop fanaticism?
what would you do yourself to stop your own fanaticism?

why do you see the sawdust in the eye of another believer while you ignore the wooden plank in your own eye?

Frosbel again

[size=25pt]Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine[/size]

[size=25pt]ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION. IT IS TERROR[/size].

Numbers 31:17-18
Now kill all the boys (in Midian). And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Judges 21:10-12
10So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11“This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.” 12They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.

1 Samuel 6:19
And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: [/b]and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

[b]Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Luke 12:49
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

2 Peter 2:12
"These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed."

John 2:15
[Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Psalms 137:8-9
O Babylon, you will be destroyed. Happy is the one who pays you back for what you have done to us.Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!

Psalms 139:19-22:
"Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men. For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take (thy name) in vain. Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies."

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Luke 22:36,38
[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

Matthew 10:35
35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

Luke 12:50-53
50 But I have a baptsm to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

Revelation 2:22-23:
"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." (Hosea 13:16)

jerseyboy:

[size=25pt]Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine[/size]

[size=25pt]ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION. IT IS TERROR[/size].

Another brainwashed in making

Bomb planted in churches on Christmas day kill dozens, Islamist claim responsibilityl- news

which mosque was bombed on sallah day or on any day in Nigeria?

PLEASE!

Muslims need to have a heart to heart talk amongst themselves and decide if the actions of their breathrens truly represents Islam. all these bombings are what matters to most right thinking people not quoting texts trying to prove anything.

LagosShia such wicked act (bombing of innocent worshippers)speaks louder that a few posts on nairaland. And it is how Islam, or and other religion for that matter, will be judged

LagosShia:

Numbers 31:17-18
Now kill all the boys (in Midian). And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Judges 21:10-12
10So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11“This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.” 12They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.

1 Samuel 6:19
And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: [/b]and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

[b]Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Luke 12:49
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

2 Peter 2:12
"These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed."

John 2:15
[Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Psalms 137:8-9
O Babylon, you will be destroyed. Happy is the one who pays you back for what you have done to us.Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!

Psalms 139:19-22:
"Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men. For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take (thy name) in vain. Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies."

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Luke 22:36,38
[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."  "That is enough," he replied.

Matthew 10:35
35 For I have come to turn   “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

Luke 12:50-53
50 But I have a baptsm to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

For the Old testament, it showed the Law as was applied before the coming of Christ - from the days of Adam and Eve to the time of Christ. It showed where the people at that time was coming from. The bible intended to show it that way. With the coming of Christ, the OT was fulfilled and a standard of beheivour and worship was established. Stating how the previous laws and behievours were (stoning to death, animal sacrifices, wars and killings) only makes the Christian aware of the fundamental changes that the coming Christ brought about. Christ demonstrated this so many times (eg john 7:53-8:11). If it were not so, Christians would have been practising the laws of Moses (an eye for an eye, sacrifices etc) but Christ show it was not necessary as some of these laws were age specific. But this not in a way to say that the OT  was irrelevant, No.  (Matt. 5:17).
,
(Galatians 3:23-25 NIV) {23} Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. {24} So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. {25} Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Please when reading the Bible read the whole verse to get a perspective. Please read well about the parable of the Master and his minions from Luke 19: 1-27 and understand the context of the story. Jesus uses parables to put across his messages. these are powerful means of communication. messages delivered like that are seldom forgotten else, pray tell, did Jesus order someone dead? Do Christians kill those who refuse to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Your singling out quotations to make claims aint nice man. I would rather judge a religion by the beheivour of its adherents.

Luke 12:49
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Luke 22:36,38
[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."  "That is enough," he replied.

Matthew 10:35
35 For I have come to turn   “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

Luke 12:50-53
50 But I have a baptsm to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

One thing I notice you do, LagoShia, is that you select verses without looking at the context within which it was made. I sat on my computer deciding to go through and respond to your write up and I came to the conclusion that its either you delibrated left out the context within which these quotations were taken or lifted the passage from some website eager to publish "revelations" to the gullible public. For the reader just google the chapter quoted in the above right up to read the context and judge for yourselves. eg Read Luke 12 to understand the context of the above.


I will just dwell on the quote below in response to some above

Luke 12:41
41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?  42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?  43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.  44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.  45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;  46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.  47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.  48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.  4[b]9 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?[/b]  50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!  51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:  52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.  53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.  54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.

What Jesus is saying here is that his coming will bring divisions as those who will want to follow him will be opposed by those who dont. In the early days of Christianity, early converts were orchestrated; parents fighting Children and vice versa. It happens today and much more in the Muslim world where converts to Christianity are killed even by their own parents, brothers and sisters. In the book of Matthew its styled a "sword"; and the older Ethiopic version it renders it, "but a sword that I may divide": the Gospel is the sword of the Spirit, which divides asunder soul and Spirit, and separates a man from his former principles and practices; and sets men apart from one another, even the nearest relations, at the greatest distance; and is, through the sin of man, the occasion of great contention, discord, and division. Christ forsaw the turmoil that Christianity will bring; Mathew 24:9 (Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.) How true - Even on Christmas and in Church Christians are not safe!

Luke 22:36,38
[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."  "That is enough," he replied.

Again please read the entire chapter to gain an insight into the situation.Given how Jesus responds to Peter’s use of the sword (he rebukes him), and given everything Jesus says about loving enemies, doing good to them, turning the other cheek, and so on, it’s clear that, whatever Jesus was up to in telling his followers to buy swords, he clearly didn’t intend for them to use them. How do you reconcile your lifting that passage and Luke 22: 49 (49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?  50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.  51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him. ) Jesus had armed men around him but he refused any form of violence.  Immediately after telling them to buy a sword (Lk 22:36) Jesus says, “It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”(vs. 37). To fulfill prophecy, Jesus had to be viewed as a transgressor. He had to at least appear to be a political revolutionary to the Jewish authorities for them to feel justified in arresting him. His cleansing of the temple a few days earlier was probably calculated for the same effect. So, to fulfill the prophecy and to provoke the Jewish authorities, he had to have enough weaponry to justify being viewed as a law breaking revolutionary. This is why, in the next verse, when the disciples say they have two swords, Jesus says “That is enough.” (vs. 38). Obviously, if Jesus ever intended for the disciples to use the swords, that wouldn’t be nearly enough. But it’s enough to fulfill the prophecy by making Jesus look like a transgressor. Please read http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/luke_22_36.htm to help you out.

All this selection of verses in isolation to try to prove fallacies will do nothing. One thing is clear, Jesus abhors violence. He said so severally and demonstrated his clear objection to it. He told Christians to expect TO BE THE VICTIMS of violence. In this day and age no Christian  convert is made through force or intimidation neither is and body threatened with death if he/she wants to leave. Also no one prevents any action towards converting a Christian cos the reasons are simple, your understanding and ACCEPTING WILLINGLY the gospel of Christ is key. I wonder if LagoShia can say that from his side.

(Hebrews 12:14 NIV) Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

goggs:



For the Old testament, it showed the Law as was applied before the coming of Christ - from the days of Adam and Eve to the time of Christ. It showed where the people at that time was coming from. The bible intended to show it that way. With the coming of Christ, the OT was fulfilled and a standard of beheivour and worship was established. Stating how the previous laws and behievours were (stoning to death, animal sacrifices, wars and killings) only makes the Christian aware of the fundamental changes that the coming Christ brought about. Christ demonstrated this so many times (eg john 7:53-8:11). If it were not so, Christians would have been practising the laws of Moses (an eye for an eye, sacrifices etc) but Christ show it was not necessary as some of these laws were age specific. But this not in a way to say that the OT was irrelevant, No. (Matt. 5:17).
,
(Galatians 3:23-25 NIV) {23} Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. {24} So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. {25} Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

you talk like a blind person.is the God who revealed the laws in the old testament not the same one that you believe inspired the new testament? dont you believe Jesus is "god"?so did he change and become the "good guy"?is the old testament not part of your "holy bible"?

here is what Jesus said in Matthew:

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven".

at another place,he even supported the enforcement of the law:

Matthew 15:4
"For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death".

Please when reading the Bible read the whole verse to get a perspective. Please read well about the parable of the Master and his minions from Luke 19: 1-27 and understand the context of the story. Jesus uses parables to put across his messages. these are powerful means of communication. messages delivered like that are seldom forgotten else, pray tell, did Jesus order someone dead? Do Christians kill those who refuse to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Your singling out quotations to make claims aint nice man. I would rather judge a religion by the beheivour of its adherents.

the parable he was using expouses violence.is that hard to see?

One thing I notice you do, LagoShia, is that you select verses without looking at the context within which it was made. I sat on my computer deciding to go through and respond to your write up and I came to the conclusion that its either you delibrated left out the context within which these quotations were taken or lifted the passage from some website eager to publish "revelations" to the gullible public. For the reader just google the chapter quoted in the above right up to read the context and judge for yourselves. eg Read Luke 12 to understand the context of the above.


I will just dwell on the quote below in response to some above

Luke 12:41
41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 4[b]9 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?[/b] 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.

What Jesus is saying here is that his coming will bring divisions as those who will want to follow him will be opposed by those who dont. In the early days of Christianity, early converts were orchestrated; parents fighting Children and vice versa. It happens today and much more in the Muslim world where converts to Christianity are killed even by their own parents, brothers and sisters. In the book of Matthew its styled a "sword"; and the older Ethiopic version it renders it, "but a sword that I may divide": the Gospel is the sword of the Spirit, which divides asunder soul and Spirit, and separates a man from his former principles and practices; and sets men apart from one another, even the nearest relations, at the greatest distance; and is, through the sin of man, the occasion of great contention, discord, and division. Christ forsaw the turmoil that Christianity will bring; Mathew 24:9 (Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.) How true - Even on Christmas and in Church Christians are not safe!

did he bring division or not?

Again please read the entire chapter to gain an insight into the situation.Given how Jesus responds to Peter’s use of the sword (he rebukes him), and given everything Jesus says about loving enemies, doing good to them, turning the other cheek, and so on, it’s clear that, whatever Jesus was up to in telling his followers to buy swords, he clearly didn’t intend for them to use them. How do you reconcile your lifting that passage and Luke 22: 49 (49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? 50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. 51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him. ) Jesus had armed men around him but he refused any form of violence. Immediately after telling them to buy a sword (Lk 22:36) Jesus says, “It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”(vs. 37). To fulfill prophecy, Jesus had to be viewed as a transgressor. He had to at least appear to be a political revolutionary to the Jewish authorities for them to feel justified in arresting him. His cleansing of the temple a few days earlier was probably calculated for the same effect. So, to fulfill the prophecy and to provoke the Jewish authorities, he had to have enough weaponry to justify being viewed as a law breaking revolutionary. This is why, in the next verse, when the disciples say they have two swords, Jesus says “That is enough.” (vs. 38). Obviously, if Jesus ever intended for the disciples to use the swords, that wouldn’t be nearly enough. But it’s enough to fulfill the prophecy by making Jesus look like a transgressor. Please read http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/luke_22_36.htm to help you out.

All this selection of verses in isolation to try to prove fallacies will do nothing. One thing is clear, Jesus abhors violence. He said so severally and demonstrated his clear objection to it. He told Christians to expect TO BE THE VICTIMS of violence. In this day and age no Christian convert is made through force or intimidation neither is and body threatened with death if he/she wants to leave. Also no one prevents any action towards converting a Christian cos the reasons are simple, your understanding and ACCEPTING WILLINGLY the gospel of Christ is key. I wonder if LagoShia can say that from his side.

(Hebrews 12:14 NIV) Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Jesus asked his disciples to buy swords to resist the jews who were his main adversaries.they came to arrest him and brought roman soldiers.do you think a sword of Peter can defeat the roman empire?therefore Jesus ask him to keep it.you can fight those you have a chance against and not the strongest empire in the world that will massacre you to the shreds,

^^^

Are you still here , you should be with your Boko Haram brothers killing and maiming Christians and infidels.

Quickly get your sword and AK47, Go and Join them !!!

frosbel:

^^^

Are you still here , you should be with your Boko Haram brothers killing and maiming Christians and infidels.

Quickly get your sword and AK47, Go and Join them !!!

as brother Dawdy rightly alluded,the bible is my sword.i kill christianity with it!

and that drives you mad!!!

^^

Yes the words in the bible are the Sword of God, Amen !!!!

You drive me mad, lol. You gotta be kidding

@Frosbel can you read and explain this to me about killing the infidel

[b]Deuteronomy 13:5-10:

5And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
[/b]

Reading is one thing, reading out of context another, but acting out what you read is what really matters.

Day after day , week after week, month after month and year after year we see Muslims acting out what they read in their so called Holy Quran, killing ,maiming and unable to live at peace with anyone because their religion is not one of peace.

Action speaks louder than words.

Let me give you some recent examples :

"Mohammed is God's apostle.  Those who follow him are ruthless  to the unbelievers but merciful to one another"  Q[b]uran 48:29[/b]

2011.12.25 (Talaqan, Afghanistan) - Two dozen mourners at a funeral are sent to Allah by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
2011.12.25 (Madalla, Nigeria) - Religion of Peace bombers strike a Catholic church during a morning Christmas mass, slaughtering three dozen worshippers.
2011.12.25 (Jos, Nigeria) - Muslim militants fire on a protestant church, killing a guard.
2011.12.24 (Srinagar, India) - The Islamic Movement of Kashmir assassinate a local official.
2011.12.24 (Kirkuk, Iraq) - Two brothers are kidnapped and murdered by 'insurgents', who also kill a school principal.
2011.12.24 (Urmur, Pakistan) - A toy bomb planted by religious extremists leaves a father dead and three children injured.

Weekly Jihad Report - Dec. 17 - Dec. 23

Jihad Attacks:
37

Allah Akbars:
2

Dead Bodies:
183

Critically Injured:
480

Mind you the figure above does not include the recent deaths in Nigeria , Pakistan and Syria.


So as you can see by my example, Muslims are constantly acting out the violence in their scriptures.

Thanks,

Frosbel

^^^ Chicken is that an explanation to my post? i ask you to explain you keep typing rubbish oga ooo, and can you please show me in the quran where it says you should kill any one that leave Islam.

Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."   

From the Hadith:

The reason why executing apostates has always been well-ensconced in Islamic law is that there is an indisputable record of Muhammad and his companions doing exactly that according to the reliable Hadith.  According to verse 4:80 of the Quran: "Whoso obeyeth the Messenger obeyeth Allah."

Bukhari (52:260) - ", The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal intimate intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

frosbel:

Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

From the Hadith:

The reason why executing apostates has always been well-ensconced in Islamic law is that there is an indisputable record of Muhammad and his companions doing exactly that according to the reliable Hadith. According to verse 4:80 of the Quran: "Whoso obeyeth the Messenger obeyeth Allah."

Bukhari (52:260) - ", The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal intimate intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

hey mumu!

how many times would you be told that there is not one verse in the Quran that says kill the apostate?your similar posting and posts demonstrate that "frosbel","plappville","Judek",and "proo 212" are the same person.

you are repeating verses which were presented a few days ago (under username "plappville" and explained.those verses refer to the pagans or men who committed crimes that if they repent and worship God,then they would be offered amnesty.they say nothing about those who leave islam.and why should even any normal person leave islam and become possessed and foolish like you,a pagan trinitarian?keep quoting hadiths which contradict the Quran and which can be rejected as forgery.

the below reply is from this thread here:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-817518.192.html#msg9815375

plappville:

The quran pretendingly forbids it, Yet people are still scared to leave islam, becos they get killed.
We ve heard many death stories of people THAT left Islam.

Quran 9:12 And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist.
Quran 9:13 Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack you first ? What! Fear ye them ? Now Allah hath more right that ye should fear Him, if ye are believers

I thought Muslims claim, the quran never speaks violence, hate,? Is it by force to believe in something u truely know is false?
[size=14pt]Quran 9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)[/size]

i know very well that there is not one verse in the Quran that says apostates or those who reject Islam should be killed,even though in my opinion it would be foolish for anyone to do so.

let me be frank to you that you are bent on misleading people.those verses you presented about "killing the disbelievers" have being explained many times.but not to worry i will repeat the explantion in my subsequent post whether or not Islam says we should kill "disbelievers".

that aside,the verses you presented mention no where the word "apostate".it mentions about those who break their pledge or treaty.this is in clear reference to the treaty of Hudaibiyyah which was a peace treaty signed between the Muslims led by the Prophet (sa) and the pagans of Quraysh.in any war situation,the rejection of a peace deal or treaty amounts to war.and that was the situation the pagans imposed on the Muslims.

so the verses you presented do not talk about "apostates".this is a verse that speaks about apostates:


this is the take of the Quran:


"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects Taghut and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." [2:256]


"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve, and then increase in their disbelief - Allah will never forgive them nor guide them to the path."[4:137].


if a person is to be killed for apostacy,then how can he believe again after he disbelieves?



Now let us see what the bible says:


Psalm 137:-9:
"O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction,happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us— he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks".

Revelation 2:22-23:
"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

Hosea 13:16
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

2 Peter 2:12
"These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed."

Psalms 139:19-22:
"Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men. For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take (thy name) in vain. Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies."

Deuteronomy 17:2-5
If there be found among you , that , hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them , Then shalt thou , tone them with stones, till they die.

LagosShia:

hey mumu!

how many times would you be told that there is not one verse in the Quran that says kill the apostate?your similar posting and posts demonstrate that "frosbel","plappville","Judek",and "proo 212" are the same person.

you are repeating verses which were presented a few days ago (under username "plappville" and explained.those verses refer to the pagans or men who committed crimes that if they repent and worship God,then they would be offered amnesty.they say nothing about those who leave islam.and why should even any normal person leave islam and become possessed and foolish like you,a pagan trinitarian?keep quoting hadiths which contradict the Quran and which can be rejected as forgery.

Common stop sounding like an illiterate.

Which book is Boko Haram reading that turns them into violent nihilistic psychopaths, the Bible  

Give me a break !!

frosbel:


Common stop sounding like an illiterate.

Which book is Boko Haram reading that turns them into violent nihilistic psychopaths, the Bible  

Give me a break !!

Hey monkey do you want to know the truth? Not all Aboki know how to read Quran same as not all the xtians know how to read bible so meaning there are radicals in everywhere that there is no religion influence them, but if you say its Quran that the Boko Haram read to carry out there evil then then you have to show me the Book the cultist in higher institution read to carry out theirs

frosbel:


Common stop sounding like an illiterate.

Which book is Boko Haram reading that turns them into violent nihilistic psychopaths, the Bible

Give me a break !!

see me see trouble O!
this man dey talk like bobo!!!

dont the catholics you regard idol-worshippers read the same books of the bible as you do?

how come?how come? how come?

is it the bible that made them idol-worshippers? well,may be!!!!

frosbel:

Reading is one thing, reading out of context another, but acting out what you read is what really matters.

for the first time frosbel,i must praise you.you have said something very sensible even though i disagree that boko haram are following islam.

what you said in the quotes says it all about christians and their christianity.

they understand the opposite of what they read.the bible keeps screaming "Jesus is alive" meaning he is not "dead".while christians say "he died and resurrected".na wa O

you are very correct frosbel.christians dont practice the bible.christians dont follow the bible but the bible follows what christians believe.so people,do not fall for the deceit of christianity.they have no "holy book" they follow.the bible is what locals would refer to as "wash-wash".it is just for show.it does not even make sense to the christians that parade it on sundays under their armpits.as the Quran tells us,christians are people who follow their desires and conjectures.they take religion for a game and amusement.let them dont deceive you.leave it or live and die in vain!

LagosShia:

for the first time frosbel,i must praise you.you have said something very sensible even though i disagree that boko haram are following islam.

Be quiet !!

They are following Islam, Period !

frosbel:

Be quiet !!

muhahahahahahahaha!!!!

frustration!!!

why should i be quiet?so you christian missionaries could spread nonsense?

They are following Islam, Period !

only if you agree that the catholics you call "idol-worshippers" are also following Christianity and the bible,Period!

^^

We can only expect death and destruction from you chaps.

Nothing good can , and nothing good, has come out of your ideology.

So to suggest that Boko Haram is not following the Quran, is total rubbish.

Go and join them, that's where you fit