A40:
Your arguments are purely from a morality and emotional standpoint not a competitive one. Nothing competitive about joining the two other lottery picks you were drafted with.

That's like MJ joining Hakeem and Barkley. There is nothing competitive about it

I've never gotten this lottery pick argument, so if KD teams up with mike conley and jeff green, or to be fair Al horford and joakim Noah its not competitive? I get wade and bosh are obviously better but whats the emphasis on the lottery pick part? Wade and Bosh are also not hakeem and barkley. LeBron teamed up with good, great players but again i dont get the emphasis on the lottery pick part.

Part of competition is being able to say that you propelled a team to championship heights. Also, part of competition is to want to say you beat the team that beat you. KD can't ever say that now can he?

A40:
You people are so funny. Imagine a squad with LeNomad, Bosh and Wade. Surrounded by these many shooters! Then still added Ray Allen the next year

And someone is trying to tell me LeNomad did not take the easy road. Lool

LMAO Kyle korver is an all time great shooter, didnt pan out well did he? But is there any team that doesnt have shooters? these are role players man not the nucleus. These are steve kerrs and robert horrys. i dont see how they are to tilt the balance overwhelmingly in one teams favor.

KarnBarlow:


I've never gotten this lottery pick argument, so if KD teams up with Al horford and joakim Noah hes not competitive? I get wade and bosh are obviously better but whats the emphasis on the lottery pick part?

Also, part of competition is to want to say you beat the team that beat you. KD can't ever say that now can he?

Al Horford and Joakim Noah are stratospheres below Bosh and Wade. Good you agree. The emphasis is that you're supposed to show you're the best in your draft but all 3 would rather team up

Of course you beat the team that beat you but on what merit? Did you beat them with the same squad? No! You stacked the deck high enough it was impossible for you to lose.

KarnBarlow:


LMAO Kyle korver is an all time great shooter, didnt pan out well did he? But is there any team that doesnt have shooters? these are role players man not the nucleus. These are steve kerrs and robert horrys. i dont see how they are to tilt the balance overwhelmingly in one teams favor.

Lool. Look at the graphic again. They then added Ray Allen the next year.

A big 3 with 4 shooters. 4!!

A40:
Al Horford and Joakim Noah are stratospheres below Bosh and Wade. Good you agree. The emphasis is that you're supposed to show you're the best in your draft but all 3 would rather team up

Of course you beat the team that beat you but on what merit? Did you beat them with the same squad? No! You stacked the deck high enough it was impossible for you to lose.

Exactly, being in the same draft doesn't make you an unstoppable force so it shouldn't be a point of contention. I've seen lottery picks end up on the same team in a draft so this is the first i'm hearing of the prove you're the best in your draft argument and i dont see how 7 years later being in the same team prevents that. Was there really a question as to who the best player on that draft was? was there when they were on the same team? is there any doubt now?


On what merit? on what merit were they beating you? they too stacked the deck so you do the same. Is it not better to stack the deck and beat them rather than join them and stack their deck even more? Talk about merit or lack thereof.

A40:
Lool. Look at the graphic again. They then added Ray Allen the next year.

A big 3 with 4 shooters. 4!!

All shooters add pretty much similar value, they shoot give or take 40% from deep. We've seen teams surrounded by shooters bomb horribly. They are a factor but not significant enough in the grand scheme of things to be considered an x factor. Wade bron and bosh, it was a great team. Every other name you throw in there makes it seem like hyperbole.

KarnBarlow:


Exactly, being in the same draft doesn't make you an unstoppable force so it shouldn't be a point of contention. I've seen lottery picks end up on the same team in a draft so this is the first i'm hearing of the prove you're the best in your draft argument and i dont see how 7 years later being in the same team prevents that. Was there really a question as to who the best player on that draft was? was there when they were on the same team? is there any doubt now?

But you're the best player in the draft you shouldn't need the help of your class mates to break through the glass ceiling. How many lottery picks deliberately join up their All-star draft mates to chase a ring? It had never happened before

You're the best player of the draft so the more reason you shouldn't need their help to win rings. It's on his record that he didn't win a chip till he got help from Bosh and Wade

KarnBarlow:

On what merit? on what merit were they beating you? they too stacked the deck so you do the same. Is it not better to stack the deck and beat them rather than join them and stack their deck even more? Talk about merit or lack thereof.

Yes you stacked the deck with significantly younger teammates. Pitting 3 All-star teammates against a squad that was 6-8 years older. Then adding the 3rd banana to your squad as well

All 3 of the moves were made to take the easier route to rings. All we are arguing about here is semantics and morality, the underlying principles were the same.

A40:

But you're the best player in the draft you shouldn't need the help of your class mates to break through the glass ceiling. How many lottery picks deliberately join up their All-star draft mates to chase a ring? It had never happened before

You're the best player of the draft so the more reason you shouldn't need their help to win rings. It's on his record that he didn't win a chip till he got help from Bosh and Wade

Whether the players are in your draft class or not it doesn't make a difference, in the end the goal is to build a good competitive team.

Yes you stacked the deck with significantly younger teammates. Pitting 3 All-star teammates against a squad that was 6-8 years older. Then adding the 3rd banana to your squad as well

All 3 of the moves were made to take the easier route to rings. All we are arguing about here is semantics and morality, the underlying principles were the same.

And the celtics had four all star caliber players going against teams that mostly had one. Did they stack their decks significantly then? was it fair then?

Any move that guarantees a competitive team is taking the easier route in a sense because it makes things easier for you. If your front office draft or trade for a player that improves the team things become easier for you. Just so happens LeBron ushered a new era where players can take their destiny into their own hands and not have to wait for incompetent front offices and end up like the barkleys and iversons. However its one thing to build a team with the essence of beating your rivals and its another thing to just team up with them, wheres the competition there? who do you have to beat then? And then theres the moral aspect you speak of which also matters, even in sports, that code of ethics exists.

Again, I like this analogy a lot because it brings the two scenarios into perspective.

You and other kids keep getting beat up by a group of bullies, you have two options. You can either team up with your mates and beat up the bullies which you are more than capable of albeit a little harder or you join the bullies and start beating up on your mates. Really you have one option, the second option is no option at all and you must consider the mentality of anyone who even considers this let alone actually go along with this.

KarnBarlow:


All shooters add pretty much similar value, they shoot give or take 40% from deep. We've seen teams surrounded by shooters bomb horribly. They are a factor but not significant enough in the grand scheme of things to be considered an x factor. Wade bron and bosh, it was a great team. Every other name you throw in there makes it seem like hyperbole.

4 shooters means 4 options. It's almost impossible to have all 4 go cold over the duration of a series. The Heat knew that that's why they added Ray Allen. They are an X-Factor. We saw that in the first Spurs vs Heat series now didn't we?

My top 10 best players in the NBA so far this season.

LeBron James
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Anthony Davis
Luka Doncic
James Harden
Kawhi Leonard
Pascal Siakam
Damian Lillard
Trae Young
Karl Anthony Towns

Honorable mentions: Beal, Brogdon, Butler, Booker, Mitchell, Embiid, PG and Dinwiddie.

KarnBarlow:
My top 10 best players in the NBA so far this season.

LeBron James
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Anthony Davis
Luka Doncic
James Harden
Kawhi Leonard
Pascal Siakam
Damian Lillard
Trae Young
Karl Anthony Towns

alaye joor joor joor luka doncic above harden

rotimi9:
alaye joor joor joor luka doncic above harden

Yes.

KarnBarlow:



Part of competition is being able to say that you propelled a team to championship heights. Also, part of competition is to want to say you beat the team that beat you. KD can't ever say that now can he?

According to who? As written by whom? Please show me where that opinion is written is the NBA rules book. Like I have always opined, these are mere subjective opinions that hold no bearing on KD.

KarnBarlow:

Whether the players are in your draft class or not it doesn't make a difference, in the end the goal is to build a good competitive team.

Or an unbeatable one

KarnBarlow:

And the celtics had four all star caliber players going against teams that mostly had one. Did they stack their decks significantly then? was it fair then?

3 of them over 35 years old. Rondo is more or less a mini Draymond Green won't be so quick to tag him all-star caliber. More like glue guy

Their deck was not stacked as high as 3 stars joining each other smack dab in the middle of their primes

KarnBarlow:

Any move that guarantees a competitive team is taking the easier route in a sense because it makes things easier for you. If your front office draft or trade for a player that improves the team things become easier for you. Just so happens LeBron ushered a new era where players can take their destiny into their own hands and not have to wait for incompetent front offices and end up like the barkleys and iversons. However its one thing to build a team with the essence of beating your rivals and its another thing to just team up with them, wheres the competition there? who do you have to beat then? And then theres the moral aspect you speak of which also matters, even in sports, that code of ethics exists.

Good. I just want you lot to agree that LeNomad also took the easier route. Moralists are free to muse and stew on it but I'm sure the like of KG and Pierce would be wishing they took the easier route sooner, Barkley also actually formed a super team they just didn't succeed because he was slightly past his prime

Whether you build a team armed with a significant advantage (youth) or join them. The crux of the matter here is you did not beat them with the same collective. They didn't run it back and that in itself is admitting defeat.

KD joining his rivals is also a shortcut route, perhaps more morally egregious but all is fair in love and war. There is no rule that says other teams cannot form their respective squads to be as strong as possible.

KarnBarlow:

Again, I like this analogy a lot because it brings the two scenarios into perspective.

You and other kids keep getting beat up by a group of bullies, you have two options. You can either team up with your mates and beat up the bullies which you are more than capable of albeit a little harder or you join the bullies and start beating up on your mates. Really you have one option, the second option is no option at all and you must consider the mentality of anyone who even considers this let alone actually go along with this.

That's how you choose to paint it. I paint it like this. You got beat by Larry Holmes and Evander Holyfield and went to bring Anthony Joshua and Deontay Wilder to fight in your stead, yes they are both fighters but a pair are significantly older. Is it a fair fight? No.

Now imagine if the likes of DeRozan, Paul George, Harden all went to form Avengers squads for their playoff losses? Or do you think they aren't wishing they had that luxury too?

Like I said before the morality of joining the guys that beat you is the only issue here (which Ray Allen did as well and you lot were perfectly ok with it) as far as trying to evade competition both players are guilty of this by joining and forming the best possible teams assembled

Roland17:


According to who? As written by whom? Please show me where that opinion is written is the NBA rules book. Like I have always opined, these are mere subjective opinions that hold no bearing on KD.

Its ingrained in every sports, the need to get back a loss be it a team sport or an individual sport no one would ever want to say another person or team got one over him. Theres nothing subjective about that. Theres a reason why rivalries exist.

A40:

Or an unbeatable one


3 of them over 35 years old. Rondo is more or less a mini Draymond Green won't be so quick to tag him all-star caliber. More like glue guy

Their deck was not stacked as high as 3 stars joining each other smack dab in the middle of their primes

At the time they were formed it was because they were better than everyone else and it wasnt even close, especially in the east. It was unprecedented in recent times. Literally won a championship the season they came together.

Good. I just want you lot to agree that LeNomad also took the easier route. Moralists are free to muse and stew on it but I'm sure the like of KG and Pierce would be wishing they took the easier route sooner, Barkley also actually formed a super team they just didn't succeed because he was slightly past his prime

Whether you build a team armed with a significant advantage (youth) or join them. The crux of the matter here is you did not beat them with the same collective. They didn't run it back and that in itself is admitting defeat.

In a team sport the best team is always going to beat the best player. Which collective you beat them with doesn't matter as long as you beat them. Whats even worse is i truly believe OKC could've beaten the warriors i mean seriously, if they didnt choke that 3-1 lead we would be having an entirely different discussion right now. But naah KD said screw trying to beat them, I can only imagine how brodie felt. They really had them.

KD joining his rivals is also a shortcut route, perhaps more morally egregious but all is fair in love and war. There is no rule that says other teams cannot form their respective squads to be as strong as possible.

I dont blame the warriors for going after KD and i have said that many times before. But do you know what it means for someone to beat you to a pulp and then extend a hand to you which you accept? what does that say about your pride? And again its always harder, no matter how talented to build a new championship team, he didnt build a new one he just added to one. If lebron was playing on semi pro KD was playing on amateur difficulty. Many really felt he was going home to the wizards with wall and beal, similar to what LeBron did, how dope would that have been? Heck the spurs were an option, but why the warriors? why does it have to be the team he just lost to?

That's how you choose to paint it. I paint it like this. You got beat by Larry Holmes and Evander Holyfield and went to bring Anthony Joshua and Deontay Wilder to fight in your stead, yes they are both fighters but a pair are significantly older. Is it a fair fight? No.

Holyfield and Holmes didnt make it fair in the first place, why should you be thinking of parity? Mind you holmes and holyfield in this case were terrorizing wilder and aj as well and you lot got your revenge. Certainly beats you joining holyfield and holmes to help them beat up the other guys especially if it means ruining any chance of the others taking them down.

Now imagine if the likes of DeRozan, Paul George, Harden all went to form Avengers squads for their playoff losses? Or do you think they aren't wishing they had that luxury too?

Harden has brodie, lets see what he does with him. Paul George has literally done that twice now. Derozan i read wants out of SA. They actually have that luxury and no one will bash them for it thanks to the decision.

Like I said before the morality of joining the guys that beat you is the only issue here (which Ray Allen did as well and you lot were perfectly ok with it) as far as trying to evade competition both players are guilty of this by joining and forming the best possible teams assembled

LOL and Allens teammates still havent forgiven him, they still dont speak to him because of how sacrilegious they felt it was . People call Jesus the original snake. But heres the thing though, Ray Allen was an old man and certainly not at the peak of his powers. If we can forgive guys like malone barkley and even shaq for their shameless ring chasing towards the end of their career we can forgive Ray allen.

KarnBarlow:

At the time they were formed it was because they were better than everyone else and it wasnt even close, especially in the east. It was unprecedented in recent times. Literally won a championship the season they came together.

Come on they were better but they were older and that team with Paul Pierce had the worst record in the league the previous season. We knew they would be good but you never saw that team and thought dynasty because of their respective ages.

The Heatles got to 4 straight Finals and we still say they underachieved. Levels

KarnBarlow:

In a team sport the best team is always going to beat the best player. Which collective you beat them with doesn't matter as long as you beat them. Whats even worse is i truly believe OKC could've beaten the warriors i mean seriously, if they didnt choke that 3-1 lead we would be having an entirely different discussion right now. But naah KD said screw trying to beat them, I can only imagine how brodie felt. They really had them.

The collective has to matter. If MJ had the Bulls trade Pippen and add say a Barkley and Olajuwon and finally they beat the Pistons would it not matter?

It's easy to argue what KD should or shouldn't have done. Who knows if they are in the position to beat the Warriors next year? Didn't KD get injured the previous year and they missed the playoffs altogether? KD in his 10th year in the league did what he had to do. Bron ran from Cleveland after his 7th year. KD served his time

KarnBarlow:

I dont blame the warriors for going after KD and i have said that many times before. But do you know what it means for someone to beat you to a pulp and then extend a hand to you which you accept? what does that say about your pride? And again its always harder, no matter how talented to build a new championship team, he didnt build a new one he just added to one. If lebron was playing on semi pro KD was playing on amateur difficulty. Many really felt he was going home to the wizards with wall and beal, similar to what LeBron did, how dope would that have been? Heck the spurs were an option, but why the warriors? why does it have to be the team he just lost to?

Lol you don't blame the Warriors for going after KD? So why do you blame KD at all. They courted him not the other way round. Maybe because they knew they couldn't beat the Cavs, maybe because they knew a surging San Antonio with Kawhi Leonard was lurking

Who sets these rules and who determines the consistency? What of teams that build via the draft and don't have the opportunity of assembling multiple franchise cornerstone free agents? Who fights for them

KarnBarlow:

Holyfield and Holmes didnt make it fair in the first place, why should you be thinking of parity? Mind you holmes and holyfield in this case were terrorizing wilder and aj as well and you lot got your revenge. Certainly beats you joining holyfield and holmes to help them beat up the other guys especially if it means ruining any chance of the others taking them down.

A fair fight would be Holyfield and AJ vs Holmes and Wilder. Not 3 younger guys in their athletic prime ganging up vs 3 OAPs. To now make matters worse they now took one of the OAPs and it became 3 younger guys and 1 OAP vs 2 OAPs. How is that fair?

KarnBarlow:

Harden has brodie, lets see what he does with him. Paul George has literally done that twice now. Derozan i read wants out of SA. They actually have that luxury and no one will bash them for it thanks to the decision.

Are you comparing their squads to the Heatles?

KarnBarlow:

LOL and Allens teammates still havent forgiven him, they still dont speak to him because of how sacrilegious they felt it was . People call Jesus the original snake. But heres the thing though, Ray Allen was an old man and certainly not at the peak of his powers. If we can forgive guys like malone barkley and even shaq for their shameless ring chasing towards the end of their career we can forgive Ray allen.

Ohh don't get it wrong of course it's morally wrong what both players did but that for me is where it stops. Ultimately everyone is playing to win

A40:

Come on they were better but they were older and that team with Paul Pierce had the worst record in the league the previous season. We knew they would be good but you never saw that team and thought dynasty because of their respective ages.

The Heatles got to 4 straight Finals and we still say they underachieved. Levels

However you choose to see it the big 3 celtics were a menace in the east, head and shoulders ahead of others and would've been a lot longer if not for the heatles. Heck if it wasnt for LeBrons game 6 in 2012 these old men were about to send them packing again. If bron and co were going to form a team they might as well form one that will be relevant for years. Besides, we saw how health issues affected them in the end. You can never be too sure. What matters is they vanquished their oppressors in the end.

The collective has to matter. If MJ had the Bulls trade Pippen and add say a Barkley and Olajuwon and finally they beat the Pistons would it not matter?

If the pistons had larry bird magic and the chairman of the boards on the same team why wouldn't it? Also this was an era where talent was spread out and it took a lot less to win. The bulls were easily the best team in the NBA in the 90s, so were the lakers/celtics in the 80s, doesnt take away from the greatness of the magics and the birds and the kareems and the jordans. Imagine if magic signed with the celtics after the 1984 finals, naah, he came back at beat them a year later. or if jordan had joined the celtics or the pistons, cause thats what KD did.

It's easy to argue what KD should or shouldn't have done. Who knows if they are in the position to beat the Warriors next year? Didn't KD get injured the previous year and they missed the playoffs altogether? KD in his 10th year in the league did what he had to do. Bron ran from Cleveland after his 7th year. KD served his time

What if he got injured with the warriors and missed the playoffs all together? What if he stayed with OKC and curry got injured? injury too unpredictable to be a factor. Point was they had the warriors and they blew it, only for him to shamelessly lick his wounds and join them a few months after. LeBron ran from a franchise that gave him Mo williams as his best wing man. KD left a franchise that gave him harden, westbrook, ibaka, adams

Lol you don't blame the Warriors for going after KD? So why do you blame KD at all. They courted him not the other way round. Maybe because they knew they couldn't beat the Cavs, maybe because they knew a surging San Antonio with Kawhi Leonard was lurking

Of course the warriors have nothing to lose by going after him they already beat him and he could make them better, him joining them only means they've broken him to submission. But where was his pride? The weakness, the solipsism is in the fact that he agreed to join them after what happened literally a few weeks before that. His legacy would be boosted if he had join the spurs and then beat the brakes off the warriors, theres simply no denying that.

Who sets these rules and who determines the consistency? What of teams that build via the draft and don't have the opportunity of assembling multiple franchise cornerstone free agents? Who fights for them

In any sport, joining a rival after you lost to them is not only weakness but a betrayal. Means you have no competitive or loyal bone in your body.

A fair fight would be Holyfield and AJ vs Holmes and Wilder. Not 3 younger guys in their athletic prime ganging up vs 3 OAPs. To now make matters worse they now took one of the OAPs and it became 3 younger guys and 1 OAP vs 2 OAPs. How is that fair?

When holyfield and holmes were singling them out and beating them up did they care about parity? So you're getting your behind kicked and you want to get them back you start thinking how do i make this fair? parity isn't an issue here. If they want to be bullies then you give them a taste of their medicine. Whats good for the goose.

Are you comparing their squads to the Heatles?

You said they dont have the luxury of having their destinies in their hands and i disagreed. Stars ask for trades all the time, the can leave as free agents if they want. If they decide not to thats on them. And i'm also pointing out that thanks to player movement they all have good teams now bar derozan who is also looking for an out.

Ohh don't get it wrong of course it's morally wrong what both players did but that for me is where it stops. Ultimately everyone is playing to win

What LeBron did was morally wrong how? whose back did he stab? Dan gilbert or the coal face ohioans? please

Some people have gone from claiming LeBron is washed to saying his on gear.

Disappointed he hasn't fallen off are we?

SmooshCHN:
Like they struggled in 2015 and 2016 playoffs when they were healthy with Draymond and no KD. Hating everything the Warriors stand for has become your safe place you don't even think twice before saying the most ridiculous things. Wetin the Warriors do una? Haba!!

In those years they had Igoudala, Livingston, Bogut and other good pieces. Who do they have now? Spellman and some comedic names that don't fit the NBA. Smh

Where is that chap chic2pimp that was hyping Ben Simmons and his Triple Single self. I don't know how anyone will watch Luka DONCIC play night in night out and type MVP anything beside Ben Simmons name.

If not for his above average defense he's just a tall MCW. I mean he's shooting below 60% from free throw range. Ewwww


Luka Doncic for MVP. It's like watching Kevin De Bruyne on the court. This kid is like 2 seconds ahead of everyone else. It's unreal

A40:
You people are so funny. Imagine a squad with LeNomad, Bosh and Wade. Surrounded by these many shooters! Then still added Ray Allen the next year

And someone is trying to tell me LeNomad did not take the easy road. Lool

stop eeet. shane battier makes so many 3s because he is always wide open. In Houston, he fed off double teams on tmac and yao ming. On the heat, the same thing happened.

He made those 3s because of Lebron, not the the other way around. stop twisting stats to support your hatred

The Mavs need to find a way to dump Tim Hardaway Jr. I'd take DeRozan hell even Aaron Gordon anything to reduce the load on Luka's back. These players are not even ashamed that a baby is carrying their workload every night

why melo dex vex for denver nau. he left of his own accord, no?

birdman:


stop eeet. shane battier makes so many 3s because he is always wide open. In Houston, he fed off double teams on tmac and yao ming. On the heat, the same thing happened.

He made those 3s because of Lebron, not the the other way around. stop twisting stats to support your hatred

This is the double standards that nauseates me with LeNomad fans, when they make these 3s it's because of LeBron but when they miss it's solely their fault. So no credit to Bosh, Wade no credit to the shooters for hitting their shots, the credit must go to LeNomad as well. Smh

The Cavs dragged San Antonio to overtime? This is a crying disgrace

A40:
This is the double standards that nauseates me with LeNomad fans, when they make these 3s it's because of LeBron but when they miss it's solely their fault. So no credit to Bosh, Wade no credit to the shooters for hitting their shots, the credit must go to LeNomad as well. Smh

what double standard. i explained it to you based on tmac/yao. i watched those rockets games. Battier has little offensive skills, which is why he plays hard defense. Its also why he is left open...teams would rather Battier beat them than Tmac. If Harden had those wide open 3s, dem for don ban 3s by now

So im telling u facts, not opinion

birdman:


what double standard. i explained it to you based on tmac/yao. i watched those rockets games. Battier has little offensive skills, which is why he plays hard defense. Its also why he is left open...teams would rather Battier beat them than Tmac. If Harden had those wide open 3s, dem for don ban 3s by now

So im telling u facts, not opinion

Bros you're not saying anything new. The idea of surrounding a squad with shooters is that if your offense is well run they will be open.

I don't recall claiming these guys were not specialists and 3 and D players. I simply highlighted them to show the depth of that Heat squad. And the Heat had 4 of them.

So I don't know what facts you're telling me that is relevant to the matter at hand. When a player makes his shots it's because of Bron and when they miss it's their fault. What kind of perspective is that?

That Harden doesn't have more open 3's is purely down to the Rockets offense and his unwillingness to play off the ball. Whose business? and more importantly whose fault

Luka Doncic for MVP.

Spoke Spanish and proceeded to drop 42-12-11. This guy is unreal

Melo still looking MINT. Bleep analytics and the Rockets really played themselves for mismanaging and screwing Melo. You can't tell me he doesn't help that team last year

Or maybe he hit rock bottom and found himself again because this man can still Hoop!

They want all the smoke.