thekrafter:

I disagree. In my opinion the protests are for the wrong thing. We should be protesting against the government and holding them accountable for past and present corruption, not against the removal of fuel subsidy.

Wrong ! They are justiofied given the fact that the removal was sudden and without palliatives. It isn't feasible for the average worker to live on the same salary when the prices of goods and transport has doubled.

thekrafter:
So the government cannot run a 1600-bus transport scheme but they can run a fuel subsidy? GTFOH.

Actually, they have been running the fuel subsidy for almost 10 years now. But consider the stupidity of the government which buys petrol when it has crude oil. A government which is so inept it cant even maintain the downstram sector of a product which constitutes over 96 % of its exports.

thekrafter:
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to call YOU lazy. I'm just characterizing many of the middle class folks who are up in arms about the wrong thing.
Yes we need to fix corruption, but this fuel subsidy needs to go. We can't keep subsidizing people who don't need it. If you own a private car in Nigeria, you shouldn't be subsidized. If you can't afford the new rates, get your car off the road. There are 1600 buses waiting.

I agree, the subsidy needs to go. However, the government clearly lacks tact. As I said on Facebook, if JFK was as dumb as this government we would have been 'enjoying' the falloyt of a nuclear war.

manny4life:



What subsidy did they manage? When you manage, don't you keep tabs/reports etc on what you manage? They managed subsidy yet the paid more than 4x than the previous year, what kind of management is that? My friend that is not management but LOOTING avenue, if they want management, they should focus their lens on the three refineries. Besides, the bus scheme should be done on state level and govt can subsidize on the state level rather than running a federal scheme program THAT WILL NOT WORK.

The govt is lazy to go to work, the subisdy should be given directly to consumers and not through marketers who bring in fuel. The IRS practices the same scheme through the DOT if you want to know how I mean I can explain.

We're getting closer together. But you seem to believe every Nigerian deserves a fuel subsidy. I do not. The buses are a way of subsidizing the most needy. We need more efforts like this. For health, education, etc. Targeted alleviation. Not fuel subsidy that even bank managers benefit from.

thekrafter:

We're getting closer together. But you seem to believe every Nigerian deserves a fuel subsidy. I do not. The buses are a way of subsidizing the most needy. We need more efforts like this. For health, education, etc. Targeted alleviation. Not fuel subsidy that even bank managers benefit from.

What I believe is every Nigeria whether Rich OR Poor should have access to cheap fuel regardless whether it's subsidize or not because of the simple fact that Nigeria exports crude oil.


I have to go to my boss office, I'll be back with my reply when I get in.

Uyi Iredia:

Wrong ! They are justiofied given the fact that the removal was sudden and without palliatives. It isn't feasible for the average worker to live on the same salary when the prices of goods and transport has doubled.

Actually, they have been running the fuel subsidy for almost 10 years now. But consider the stupidity of the government which buys petrol when it has crude oil. A government which is so inept it cant even maintain the downstram sector of a product which constitutes over 96 % of its exports.

I agree, the subsidy needs to go. However, the government clearly lacks tact. As I said on Facebook, if JFK was as dumb as this government we would have been 'enjoying' the falloyt of a nuclear war.

I agree, the removal could have been handled better. But the so called smart ones are leading the "masses" to force our government to kill us. And by kill us I mean re-instating the subsidy. If the subsidy stays, in the short term, we gain, government doesn't lose a thing. They got along just fine last year with the subsidy. But in the long term, Nigeria will die. The subsidy needs to go, the government needs to lead the way with belt tightening measures, and people need to go to JAIL!!

thekrafter:

Very good. Shebi we could buy generator and fuel it before? Now we know that privately generated power is too expensive, we will hold the government to do the right thing. Countless billions have been spent on the power industry to no avail. But we were all complacent, after all we had our small IPMN generators.
NOW IS THE TIME TO HOLD THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABLE. We need to protest, not to remove the fuel subsidy but to cut their benefits, to demand accountability for past billions misspent. For 4k's sake, some people need to go to jail!!

And you think, it's after suddenly raising the price of petrol that we should now start running to fix PHCN? Shouldn't the task of fixing PHCN have happened earlier? And knowing that the problem with PHCN has not been fixed combined with the petrol price increase, what does that tell you about the intelligence of the people at the helm of affairs?

thekrafter:

We're getting closer together. But you seem to believe every Nigerian deserves a fuel subsidy. I do not. The buses are a way of subsidizing the most needy. We need more efforts like this. For health, education, etc. Targeted alleviation. Not fuel subsidy that even bank managers benefit from.

@ bolded >>> We both agree on that. However you next statement is asinine. 1600 buses IS NOT a sustainable palliative. A better palliative for instance would be the increase of workers salaries or tax cuts.

thekrafter:

We're getting closer together. But you seem to believe every Nigerian deserves a fuel subsidy. I do not. The buses are a way of subsidizing the most needy. We need more efforts like this. For health, education, etc. Targeted alleviation. Not fuel subsidy that even bank managers benefit from.

So we get the buses only when we protest abi?

thekrafter:

I agree, the removal could have been handled better. But the so called smart ones are leading the "masses" to force our government to kill us. And by kill us I mean re-instating the subsidy. If the subsidy stays, in the short term, we gain, government doesn't lose a thing. They got along just fine last year with the subsidy. But in the long term, Nigeria will die. The subsidy needs to go, the government needs to lead the way with belt tightening measures, and people need to go to JAIL!!

Speaking of going to jail, don't you think the "Commander in Chief" would lead the long line to Kirikiri? You are simply talking about what the government should do; have they indicated they have any plans of doing that? Spending 72% of the budget on themselves? From what you have seen, do you think there is that will to tighten any belts?

..................

thekrafter:

I agree, the removal could have been handled better. But the so called smart ones are leading the "masses" to force our government to kill us. And by kill us I mean re-instating the subsidy. If the subsidy stays, in the short term, we gain, government doesn't lose a thing. They got along just fine last year with the subsidy. But in the long term, Nigeria will die. The subsidy needs to go, the government needs to lead the way with belt tightening measures, and people need to go to JAIL!!

They do not need to re-instate the subsidy to ease off the civil protests. I have suggested measures that would be applauded if the FG has the balls to do so. Keep in mind mr krafter that it is very possible that petrol currently being sold were procured at subsidized rates already. WHo is is gaining  from this ? Most people were expecting the removal at the ending of the first quarter of the year.

logica:

And you think, it's after suddenly raising the price of petrol that we should now start running to fix PHCN? Shouldn't the task of fixing PHCN have happened earlier? And knowing that the problem with PHCN has not been fixed combined with the petrol price increase, what does that tell you about the intelligence of the people at the helm of affairs?

My point exactly!! Obviously to get stuff done, we need to kick the government's ass. But it's only now, when we can no longer fuel our generators that we're getting up! We know billions have been spent to no avail. What did we do? Nothing. Since we have got off our as.ses now, we might as well ask for the right thing. And that's not re-instatement of the subsidy.

Uyi Iredia:

@ bolded >>> We both agree on that. However you next statement is asinine. 1600 buses IS NOT a sustainable palliative. A better palliative for instance would be the increase of workers salaries or tax cuts.

It's not the be all and end all. But it's a start.
And sorry, most of the people who most need the subsidy don't pay tax. Even they were given a 100% tax break, it wouldn't help them cope.

logica:

Speaking of going to jail, don't you think the "Commander in Chief" would lead the long line to Kirikiri? You are simply talking about what the government should do; have they indicated they have any plans of doing that? Spending 72% of the budget on themselves? From what you have seen, do you think there is that will to tighten any belts?

We are that WILL. That is what we should be protesting for. In exactly the same way we are trying to force them to remove the subsidy.

Nadanbata:

So we get the buses only when we protest abi?

So it seems my brother. So we need to protest more and get some heavy-jowled, corrupt pigs in jail.

43 buses for oshodi to ipaja,
mile 2 to badagry 43,
bagadry to seme 43,
cms to ajah 43,
ajah to epe 43,
mile 12 to ikorodu 43,
ikorodu to ogijo 43,
mile 12 to mowe 43,
ipaja to sango 43 and
mile 12 to cms 43.
pls tell mr president that lagos state will for a start manange 430 buses .

thekrafter:

It's not the be all and end all. But it's a start.
And sorry, most of the people who most need the subsidy don't pay tax. Even they were given a 100% tax break, it wouldn't help them cope.
We are that WILL. That is what we should be protesting for. In exactly the same way we are trying to force them to remove the subsidy.

Actually, tax is deducted from civil service workers salary. Reduce the tax, increase their pay. However, as I've implied re-instating the subsidy in till the widely-agreed date, April 12th, won't be a bad idea. The petrol being sold (at de-subsidized rate) is subsidized. As I asked you, who is gaining from this ?

Uyi Iredia:

Actually, tax is deducted from civil service workers salary. Reduce the tax, increase their pay. However, as I've implied re-instating the subsidy in till the widely-agreed date, April 12th, won't be a bad idea. The petrol being sold (at de-subsidized rate) is subsidized. As I asked you, who is gaining from this ?

Increase salary for all civil servants? No!! A limited tax rebate (not proportional to current salary) would be more appropriate.
And when I was talking about people who needed it most, I wasn't talking about civil servants. Minimum wage was just increased to N18k/month. People were getting by on the old salary.

Now I know that GEJ is truly dumb!

How many of the El-Rufai buses are running today?

, from what I know from a few things I've done with the government, it will be a surprise if those buses are even up to 1,000.

Are they flying buses or are they going to be plying non existent roads. Daftness doesnt get worse than this.

thekrafter:

Increase salary for all civil servants? No!! A limited tax rebate (not proportional to current salary) would be more appropriate.
And when I was talking about people who needed it most, I wasn't talking about civil servants. Minimum wage was just increased to N18k/month. [size=28pt]People were getting by on the old salary[/size].

u must be high on otapiapia. . . u've finally shown us where u were headed with all ur so-called logical arguments about y subsidy should remain. . .amadioha strike ur left b@lls

thekrafter link=topic=838863.msg9895890#msg9895890 date=1325703575[b:
]
Increase salary for all civil servants? No!![/b] A limited tax rebate (not proportional to current salary) would be more appropriate.
And when I was talking about people who needed it most, I wasn't talking about civil servants. Minimum wage was just increased to N18k/month. People were getting by on the old salary.

Yes ! As a palliative for the inflation which has taken immediate effect and has made nonsense of the marginal increase (to the best of my knowledge) in salary. You still haven't answered my question. You reply still ignores my note of the possibility that the fuel being sold is subsidized. Furthermore, one hopes the deregulation of the downstream sector will work the way it did in the telecoms industry. I have my doubts.

1600 buses? How would that solve the inflation already rampagin d citizens? Gej needs some medical attentions!

Uyi Iredia:

Yes ! As a palliative for the inflation which has taken immediate effect and has made nonsense of the marginal increase (to the best of my knowledge) in salary. You still haven't answered my question. You reply still ignores my note of the possibility that the fuel being sold is subsidized. Furthermore, one hopes the deregulation of the downstream sector will work the way it did in the telecoms industry. I have my doubts.

Yes, the government should ensure that subsidized stock is depleted before stations revert to unsubsidized prices.

philip0906:

u must be high on otapiapia. . . u've finally shown us where u were headed with all your so-called logical arguments about y subsidy should remain. . .amadioha strike your left b@lls

Yepaaa! My balls!!

Are tomatoes,rice,onion& other foodstuffs transported in govt buses or evn buses @all for that matter?Do generators whc is a basic necessity in every nigerian home run on water?Just discovered that there has bn a 10% increase in d price of my container of bottled water bc cost of transporting it in a van has increased;d health institution that has to power d hospital may need to increase charges,d list goes on.
So why do some daft people evn tink transporting people alone will ameliorate subsidy removal.Na wa o for d brain God give of of our leaders o!

We neeed minimum of 100k buses. And good roads, Electricity , we dont want more than that for now deadline is April. Thats our temporary demand

Anyway i am convince that GEJ is sick and that we are in the grip of the dullest leader to ever rule this nation.

plz am i d only one rwadin d shit bein spewed by THEKRAFTER, am very sure hs dad still feeds him, imagin sayin workers wer gettin by on d old salary bfor dey increasd min wage, **shakin wit rage**

1600 Toyota Hiace Buses at 5 million naira each will amount to 8 Billion Naira. That's if them no inflate am to 10 million each.

thekrafter:

Yes,  the government should ensure that subsidized stock is depleted before stations revert to unsubsidized prices.

They didn't and to to that end Nigerians are justified in their protests. My attitude for now is a wait-and-see approach. 2-3 years from now will all the fracas and the life lost so far be worth it, or not ?

NOW I understand what it means when they say DO NOT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER
This guy truly fooled nigerians. I bet he should ask gadaffi in his Grave what it felt like when the libyans turned against him.
GEJ is a puppet, by all economic principles we all agree that subsidy should go, but removing subsidy without tackling areas like power? Railway? Roads? Security? Was the last straw that broke the camels back.
What will 1600 buses do to solve the problem of transportation. What about inter state transportation.
and where is the damn national assembly when we need them
I see Nigerian leaders as people who have taken the Nigerian people for granted for too long but even a goat when pushed to the wall will turn round and fight.
We have had enough.
nigerian leaders have been known for too much talk and very little action. Even if they remove subsidy they will still find a way to loot the subsidy settlement or what ever they call it.
And by the way how did subsidy start in the first place. Why are our refineries not working
Why can't we produce our own fuel.
Untill we fight corruption to a standstill removal of subsidy is a total waste of time.

Let's see how he is going to implement his programmes when there is no peace.
Useless president.

Regardless of whether the latest move looks good, it is not sustainable - it will fail and it will only raise the operating costs further causing the FG to spend more to sustain it. in the end, it will not lower the cost of transportation neither will it reduce the burden of subsidies removal. as usual the government has completely undermined its own initiatives by putting the cart before the horse. Launching Satellites into space then commencing on training engineers to manage it, duh! removing subsidies, then considering palliatives to ease the burden, should this not have been thought of before. the first sign that your government is bobboing you is that they never have a proactive plan, everything is an after-thought so that it fails and they can try it again and again and again - why are we having the 4th Identity card Scheme. $ billions  after. I am sure they will come with brand new finger-printing machines like the ones used for the elections, I hate my leaders - worse I hate my religious leaders more  

Uyi Iredia:

They didn't and to to that end Nigerians are justified in their protests. My attitude for now is a wait-and-see approach. 2-3 years from now will all the fracas and the life lost so far be worth it, or not ?

Unfortunately at least 95% of Nigerians do not have that luxury of time - most of us on Nairaland have they will be long gone and forgotten - 6ft under. f'course the so-called leaders of this unpopular reform will be living fat off their huge allowances and would have moved on to other things - like a long-term Crude-Petrol Contract with other nations so they refine our crude and ship back petrol - Holy sh.iit. it is already on the tables