Great response!  We are Yoruba first, Nigeria second, ChristianMuslim third.   In our land, when you see a Muslim governor married to a Christian wife, then you have seen Yoruba.  When you see a Christian governor whose son is married to a muslim, then you have seen Yoruba.  When you see a Muslim governor whose mother is a christian, then you have seen Yoruba.  When you see a ibo refugee rejected from North because he/she is christian and arrived in Lagos to the comfort and safety of our communities and lifestyles, you have seen Yoruba.

I couldn't stop laughing on the bold part. Unfortunately, Nyiibos are inherently inferior people. They make the most noise about self pride, yet they are the ones calling themselves the israelites/jews of Africa. Of course that indicates that they wish they were jews rather that Nyiibos. A jew would never call themself something like "russian of the mid-east", neither an englishman call himself "zulu of europe". Yet Nyiibos call themselves jews of Africa. Whatever happened to your true identity? Nyiibos of Africa? Is it that bad being a nyiibo,?

_Chucks,

Ifa corpus is what we call "manuscript of nature".  What is that?  

Mankind is created into two separate but inter-dependent abodes - the conscious and the unconscious.  The two together converge to complete our divinity.  Innately, our faculties of physical and mental attributes are in a chase or a race against spatial and finite dimensions - distance, time, space and so on.  But our spirit is seeking a reunion with its primordial source and is reluctant often times to be led along in the chase in material space.  The struggle between the two results in an inner conflict.  The conflicts build up with age and produces imbalance in the divine self - the stage where the two are divergent.  The wider the gap the greater the imbalance and the less health the individual has.  To narrow the gap . . . to minimize the conflict, the inner struggle and discontent. .  and restore balance and health. . . .we need a manuscript/  Ifa is that manuscript!  In its Odus, there are instructions, guidance, teachings, revelations on the essence of polarity, duality and triplicity.

From one, you get two. . .from two, you get three.  

An independent, self-subsisting and self-sustaining self soon realizes that he is indeed not capable of self-regeneration.  So he goes into finding a second dimension. . . a partner with whom to accomplish this purpose.  He then realizes that the partnership demands a new set of discipline than he was familiar with - sacrifice, patience, strengths and weakness, trust and so on.  So he learns patience, sacrifice, learns to trust.  Then his new understanding and wisdom begin to yield fruit. . . there is growth, there is joy, there is healing, there is happiness, there is propserity.

The one is not good by itself, in partnership is a great goodness. . .but even more, the partnership is a regeneration of the two into abundance and prosperity.

This is Ifa wisdom.  But compare that with the Adam and Eve event in Genesis.  Adam by himself was helpless and so he was given a mate and the two interacting with one another encored in a fruitful transformation.  

This lesson is applicable in business, its applicable in matrimony, its applivable at the job.  It teaches the wisdom of balance. . . healing, and we find it in Ifa manuscript.  The world needs it to heal!

Why so much hate on this thread?

Yoruba Christian or Muslim depend on who is trying to kill them. They're Christians if a Christian pull the gun and Muslim is one pull the knife! I don't believe Any Yoruba man's religion period. I thought I was confused about that in Nigeria but it's even worse here in the US! I went to a Yoruba Muslim naming ceremony few weeks ago and the same Yorubas that get to church even before me are all face wrapped with their bids, singing Laila inlanla like they're in American idol!

pharmow:

For all those dumb Ibos that have made unreasonable comments on this thread, I will like to know your history and heritage, a lot has been said about yoruba history and by the time you dumbasses link 2 or more stories, you can see that the yorubas have a very rich heritage. Have been hearing since I was a little kid that it was a gorilla that impregnated your foremother, I can agree more cos the way you guys behave, it always show the animal instincts in you.

Trust me dude you won't open that shit you call mouth if you know the meaning of your name (ar, Mow) in Igbo.

pharmow:

For all those dumb Ibos that have made unreasonable comments on this thread, I will like to know your history and heritage, a lot has been said about yoruba history and by the time you dumbasses link 2 or more stories, you can see that the yorubas have a very rich heritage. Have been hearing since I was a little kid that it was a gorilla that impregnated your foremother, I can agree more cos the way you guys behave, it always show the animal instincts in you.

Ironically yorubas look like monkeys even as black as guerilla, I hate to tow this part but since you want us to really start saying things as it is.

I want to appeal to gladiators to please ceasefire; this is a good thread. It doesn't need bigoted comments.

Ndu Chuks, I read with sadness your comments calling other peoples culture and heritage primitive, in the World of today there is respect for other peoples beliefs and tradition as long as its non violent or oppressive. Your statement is stuck in time, of the hey days of Arab/Islamic imperialism and European colonization of Africa, when everything about us Black Africans was called evil and uncivilized. But thankfully the western powers have moved on, they understand the World better, others cultures are now treated with mutual respect. Sadly though the Arab/Islam imperialist of yesteryears still hold on to this culture of intolerance and superiority complex, where everything about other cultures is Harem unless approved by Sharia. We wait until when such changes will take place, when the muslim man and the  Arab imperialist will embrace the concept of one out of many. The human race.

Be above this self hate put on us by the Arab and European slave masters.  

Ifa will heal the world because its non judgemental, tolerant and peaceful. If ifa was the dominant religious belief in the North the place will not be the killing field that its today.

bashr8:

Ironically yorubas look like monkeys even as black as guerilla, I hate to tow this part but since you want us to really start saying things as it is.

That's not true now Obj is a good looking Igbo man lol

Negro_Ntns:

_Chucks,

Ifa corpus is what we call "manuscript of nature".  What is that?  

Mankind is created into two separate but inter-dependent abodes - the conscious and the unconscious.  The two together converge to complete our divinity.  Innately, our faculties of physical and mental attributes are in a chase or a race against spatial and finite dimensions - distance, time, space and so on.  But our spirit is seeking a reunion with its primordial source and is reluctant often times to be led along in the chase in material space.  The struggle between the two results in an inner conflict.  The conflicts build up with age and produces imbalance in the divine self - the stage where the two are divergent.  The wider the gap the greater the imbalance and the less health the individual has.  To narrow the gap . . . to minimize the conflict, the inner struggle and discontent. .  and restore balance and health. . . .we need a manuscript/  Ifa is that manuscript!  In its Odus, there are instructions, guidance, teachings, revelations on the essence of polarity, duality and triplicity.

From one, you get two. . .from two, you get three.  

An independent, self-subsisting and self-sustaining self soon realizes that he is indeed not capable of self-regeneration.  So he goes into finding a second dimension. . . a partner with whom to accomplish this purpose.  He then realizes that the partnership demands a new set of discipline than he was familiar with - sacrifice, patience, strengths and weakness, trust and so on.  So he learns patience, sacrifice, learns to trust.  Then his new understanding and wisdom begin to yield fruit. . . there is growth, there is joy, there is healing, there is happiness, there is propserity.

The one is not good by itself, in partnership is a great goodness. . .but even more, the partnership is a regeneration of the two into abundance and prosperity.

This is Ifa wisdom.  But compare that with the Adam and Eve event in Genesis.  Adam by himself was helpless and so he was given a mate and the two interacting with one another encored in a fruitful transformation.  

This lesson is applicable in business, its applicable in matrimony, its applivable at the job.  It teaches the wisdom of balance. . . healing, and we find it in Ifa manuscript.  The world needs it to heal!

Great concept but I'm afraid however that it sounds like the core of Confucianism. The Ifa worshipers (who you people call Ara Oko) wearing asho oke and danshiki in the video I posted do not seem capable of grasping the concepts you've provided above.  I challenge you to transalate your first two sentences above to Yoruba:

An independent, self-subsisting and self-sustaining self soon realizes that he is indeed not capable of self-regeneration.  So he goes into finding a second dimension. . . a partner with whom to accomplish this purpose.

If you can't effectively do the transalation, how do you want us to believe that the original uncivilized Ifa practitioners discussed these concepts. You intellectuals of today will not be allowed to pretty up a religion that is probably barbarian by nature.

We would ve been seeing reasonable comments in this thread if the op didn't includ igbo this igbo that in his 1st comment.2ndly 4 those clamouring for an igbo muslim leader, i want 2 add that it is not by force for someone 2 be a muslim b/4 since i was born and now i am getting old i ve never seen an igbo muslim.3rdly i advice d yorubas to move on wit their lives whether they are xtians, muslims,ifas, buddhists etc there is no need for all these brouhahas.

Great concept but I'm afraid however that it sounds like the core of Confucianism. The Ifa worshipers wearing asho oke and danshiki in the video are posted do not seem capable of grasping the concepts you've provided above.  I challenge you to transalate your first two sentences above to Yoruba:

In the Quran, God advises Muhammad (saws) about the "People of the books".  Who are these people?

They are the Jews, the Christians, the Muslims and the Sabeans.

Who are the Sabeans?  They are two groups.  

1) the followers of John the Baptist (Zaccharia or Zakariyya).  They have a scripture which is the Gospel. These people remained in Babylon ( modern day Iraq) and some are still there till today.  

2) the followers of the faith of Abraham - the Hannifas!  They have a manuscript of nature but no name is given for the scrolls.  They were in Yemen and is said that they spread around due to some wars but a few exist today in the Arabian Peninsula.

Heretics from the two kingdoms of Egypt and Babylon had corrupted their religious practice in some age period that they went into idol worshiping.  When Muhammed was preaching Islam he had to fight them in Mecca, Yemen, Abbyssinia and the muslims even fought them in Jerusalem, though this may have been after the death of the Prophet.


When you look at Ifa, its literature and its rituals. . . it parallels in style and form the other books.  The priest garments in Ifa and even Ogboni are exact mirror of the specifications in the chapter of Exodus in the Bible.   I have seen Yoruba artificats depicting sacred arts and in which you can clearly see a touch of Old testament. . . .with rituals, offerings, worship and including the staff of authority held by the priest.  


Now, as far as translation.  Yoruba is a tonal language.  The cosmos has sounds and rythyms.  The Yoruba tongue flow in synch with our cosmic awareness.  Therefore, I cannot translate sounds of a rythymic wave into the flat, toneless, and vowel limited English language in a way that you can grasp the full sacredness of the meaning.  Our forefathers also faced this limitation and explains why in their wisdom they left it unwritten and preferred instead to transfer and teachthe knowledge in its original tonal soundwave and poetry.

Negro_Ntns:


When you look at Ifa, its literature and its rituals. . . it parallels in style and form the other books.  The priest garments in Ifa and even Ogboni are exact mirror of the specifications in the chapter of Exodus in the Bible.   I have seen Yoruba artificats depicting sacred arts and in which you can clearly see a touch of Old testament. . . .with rituals, offerings, worship and including the staff of authority held by the priest.  

This weak attempt to link the Yorubas to "old testament people" of the bible is weak at best. Many Yorubas will find it very objectionable particularly since it conflicts with their belief that Ọbatala, the great yoruba divinity, descended from heaven.

Please clarify your statement if I misinterpreted what you said. Are the Yorubas descendants of the people you referenced in Exodus? If so, are you also saying that they practiced Ifa?

my biggest fear for Nigeria is not Jonathan but the hatred of igbos by hausas (esp the muslim hausas)and maybe some yoruba's cos even my parents will not support an ibo girl but are comfortable with a yoruba.

the hausa man is partnering with the yoruba to further alienate the ibo. i dont understand the hatred for ibo. every comment i see on nairaland by an hausa man must have a hidden hate remark for ibo. even the ones who are forming de-tribalised still igbos.

what is going on?

okunoba:

Ndu Chuks, I read with sadness your comments calling other peoples culture and heritage primitive, in the World of today there is respect for other peoples beliefs and tradition as long as its non violent or oppressive. Your statement is stuck in time, of the hey days of Arab/Islamic imperialism and European colonization of Africa, when everything about us Black Africans was called evil and uncivilized. But thankfully the western powers have moved on, they understand the World better, others cultures are now treated with mutual respect. Sadly though the Arab/Islam imperialist of yesteryears still hold on to this culture of intolerance and superiority complex, where everything about other cultures is Harem unless approved by Sharia. We wait until when such changes will take place, when the muslim man and the  Arab imperialist will embrace the concept of one out of many. The human race.

Be above this self hate put on us by the Arab and European slave masters.  

Ifa will heal the world because its non judgemental, tolerant and peaceful. If ifa was the dominant religious belief in the North the place will not be the killing field that its today.

This emotional outburst of yours is unfortunate and is typically exhibited by folks in denia,l when the facts are stirring right at them. Your wahala with Islam and/or sharia is just that, yours alone. wettin concern me with dat one? If you can shed some light on how and why Ifa will heal the world, please lets hear it.  I'm all ears, please educate me. I will not however let you get away with unsubstantiated 'facts' while you go into your effeminate emotional outbursts. olodo

I have defended the position of Obatala before and I will do it again if need be. . . not timid in my beliefs!  

I am saying these people practiced Ifa. Have you read anythink on Kaballah yet?  The image and popularity of Ifa has suffered greatly because a new world order overtook it in which literature and written records are given precedence of authenticity above the virtue of oral tradition.  

If Ifa had been a written literature like the other manuscripts, we should not even be here talking about this issue.  It would be taught in schools and colleges and would be the foremost African theosophical tablet, rivaling the Bible, Quran, Torah. You, ndu_chuks would be chanting Eji Ogbe, instead of la ila illa llahu!  You rascal!  

If you want to know my view on Yoruba origins go to culture section and read on it.

The yorubas are quite tolerant!

monex:

my biggest fear for Nigeria is not Jonathan but the hatred of igbos by hausas (esp the muslim hausas)and maybe some yoruba's cos even my parents will not support an ibo girl but are comfortable with a yoruba.

the hausa man is partnering with the yoruba to further alienate the ibo. i dont understand the hatred for ibo. every comment i see on nairaland by an hausa man must have a hidden hate remark for ibo. even the ones who are forming de-tribalised still igbos.

what is going on?

^^that person isnt coherent.

how many hausas has he seen on nl for him to make such broad statements.

the few hausas here are generally pro-igbo.

the igbo hating ones are most likely not on this site and in any case, there are only a small number of hausas on nl, like i said before.

to all of you!

@Ndu Chuks, U call Ifa worshippers uncivilized and I simply ask u to respect other peoples beliefs as long as they are not hurting anyone. where is the emotional outburst in that or the denial? Civility is about respect, a thrait u have failed to exhibit in your comments. What standard have you used to judge Ifa worshipers as uncivilized? Could it be Islamic, we know its not by the African culture of live and let live which Ifa represents.

Go back to my last post and you will see how Ifa will heal the World. Tolerance Brov, no muslim Ummah or kaffirs just one human race with different beliefs in God.  Lets not be blinded by dogma.

If I am olodo u are Oga omowe.

...

OP, Odua yo gbe o! true son of Odua.

Yorubas are not bastard, the bastard know themselves.

ndu_chucks:

I'm all ears. Please tell me what Ifa is and how it will heal the world. I've always though it was the religion of uncivilized folks who are ignorant about modern day affairs. I'm ready to be educated (I assume you are not ignorant about this Ida), so please proceed.

P.S. Do not make any assumptions about my religion if I am yet to tell you what that religion is - my religion should irrelevant in the education you are going to provide.  

The video below shows uncivilized folks practicing this Ifa.  I await the day when you practitioners will use your babalawo to topple governments and remove corrupt officials.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=k9lGVF6jYN4

[flash=300,300]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=k9lGVF6jYN4[/flash]

Your comments are rather silly, vindictive, and ignorant. You clearly missed the import of the messages from several posters.

Now I am going to be brutally honest here. Let us look at the facts on ground. 'Uncivilised' Yoruba people don't go butchering innocent people in the name of religion like your 'civilised' brothers usually do.

You will never understand the Ifa belief system because you are incapable of understanding such an advanced form of thought. Your comments on this thread betrays your thought process.

I would have expected that on this particular subject, you would have been very silent.

Negro_Ntns:

I have defended the position of Obatala before and I will do it again if need be. . . not timid in my beliefs!  

I am saying these people practiced Ifa. Have you read anythink on Kaballah yet?  The image and popularity of Ifa has suffered greatly because a new world order overtook it in which literature and written records are given precedence of authenticity above the virtue of oral tradition.  

If Ifa had been a written literature like the other manuscripts, we should not even be here talking about this issue.  It would be taught in schools and colleges and would be the foremost African theosophical tablet, rivaling the Bible, Quran, Torah. 

You stated earlier that the "cosmos has sounds and rythyms.  The Yoruba tongue flow in synch with our cosmic awareness.  Therefore, I cannot translate sounds of a rythymic wave into the flat, toneless, and vowel limited English language in a way that you can grasp the full sacredness of the meaning.  Our forefathers also faced this limitation and explains why in their wisdom they left it unwritten and preferred instead to transfer and teachthe knowledge in its original tonal soundwave and poetry."

Pray tell, in what language did the Ifa practitioners of Exodus transfer and teach the said Ifa knowledge to the Yoruba people of old?  It is not enough to try to pass wishes as history.

Katsumoto:

Your comments are rather silly, vindictive, and ignorant. You clearly missed the import of the messages from several posters.

Now I am going to be brutally honest here. Let us look at the facts on ground. 'Uncivilised' Yoruba people don't go butchering innocent people in the name of religion like your 'civilised' brothers usually do.

You will never understand the Ifa belief system because you are incapable of understanding such an advanced form of thought. Your comments on this thread betrays your thought process.

I would have expected that on this particular subject, you would have been very silent.

What da heck is the matter with you and why are you attempting to beat up or bully people around? The people who are killing innocent Nigerians in the name of religion are not my brothers nor do they share the same belief system as mine. These people are waging a war against Nigeria, period.

As to the bit that I cannot understand the Ifa belief system because it requires some advanced form of thought, I refer you to the video I posted earlier. The practitioners in that video cannot, in all honesty, be deemed extremely intelligent and deep thinkers. The same applies to all the babalawos you'll find deep in the woods of Ijebu Igbo and other areas.  What do you know about Ifa anyway? You are not even a practioner of the religion.

prince_onx:

That's not true now Obj is a good looking Igbo man lol

Obj.s mother was raped by an igbo man who came to work in their village so Obj is an adopted igbo man in yoruba land

ndu_chucks:


What da heck is the matter with you and why are you attempting to beat up or bully people around? The people who are killing innocent Nigerians in the name of religion are not my brothers nor do they share the same belief system as mine. These people are waging a war against Nigeria, period.

What about those who maimed and killed fellow citizens in all the religious uprisings in the North? Were they waging a war against Nigeria then?

How did I try to beat or bully you? Are you one to be bullied?   Lo jo ko si ibi kan jo.

ndu_chucks:


As to the bit that I cannot understand the Ifa belief system because it requires some advanced form of thought, I refer you to the video I posted earlier. The practitioners in that video cannot, in all honesty, be deemed extremely intelligent and deep thinkers. The same applies to all the babalawos you'll find deep in the woods of Ijebu Igbo and other areas.  What do you know about Ifa anyway? You are not even a practioner of the religion.

You can ascertain the intelligence of people by merely looking at them in a video? What do i know about Ifa? We are being presumptious now right. I offer comments/defence of religions/principles as far as my knowledge of them will allow.

Ndu-chuks, are you sure you are not Conrad Black? Seeing that those folks look too primitive to be intelligent? Na just innocent kweshun o

IYA NGBALI:

Obj.s mother was violated by an igbo man who came to work in their village so Obj is an adopted igbo man in yoruba land

Which ever way na Igbo fault! May God help the Igbos

Ezeufi:

I couldn't stop laughing on the bold part. Unfortunately, Nyiibos are inherently inferior people. They make the most noise about self pride, yet they are the ones calling themselves the israelites/jews of Africa. Of course that indicates that they wish they were jews rather that Nyiibos. A jew would never call themself something like "russian of the mid-east", neither an englishman call himself "zulu of europe". Yet Nyiibos call themselves jews of Africa. Whatever happened to your true identity? Nyiibos of Africa? Is it that bad being a nyiibo,?

A Yoruba man is a Yoruba first before any religion.

Notice all our OBAS must perform the rites weather they are Christians or Muslims.

Our culture is supreme to any religion.

That is why you find must of our leaders in OGBONI.

Ogboni is a fraternal institution indigenous to the Yoruba language-speaking polities of Nigeria, Republic of Bénin and Togo. The society performs a range of political and religious functions, including exercising a profound influence on regents and serving as high courts of jurisprudence in capital offenses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogboni

@Ndu Chucks, I believe when it comes to your religion, which is obviously Islam, but you too ashamed to admit it, you are always  practicing  taqiyya. With all the killings in the World because of Islamist claiming to be fighting for Allah, u still denying that they are muslims.

Ifa is civilized because it doesn`t preach superiority nor does it suppress other thought process unlike Islam the religion of piece.

okunoba:

@Ndu Chucks, I believe when it comes to your religion, which is obviously Islam, but you too ashamed to admit it, you are always  practicing  taqiyya. With all the killings in the World because of Islamist claiming to be fighting for Allah, u still denying that they are muslims.

Ifa is civilized because it doesn`t preach superiority nor does it suppress other thought process unlike Islam the religion of piece.

And Christianity is the Religion of Peace, no be so?

All the atrocities being committed, and instigated, all over the world by predominantly Christian countries were also done by Muslims too? Or should I remind you of past instances like World War II or even more recent ones like in Iraq, Rwanda, Liberia, Sierra Leone, and even most recently, Libya?

Its the man, not the teaching.

Dude, stop with the ignorance.