@Ubenedictus

Im not denying that God Almighty do have infinite knowledge pls;

if i had a passage that said exactly that it wouldnt even make a difference, i wouldnt even see the need of posting it. If a christian would deny that God has infinite knowledge just so he would feel good about a discussion i wouldnt like to waste time giving him more thing so he could just deny them.
Peace

and let me back it up now choosing one of numerous verses that i have;

isaiah 46:9-10;

9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’

this above quote support 'my own' assertion that God do have an infinite knowledge because i have back it up using our common constitution here;the bible,

so the same way that i expect you to back up your own claim and not mere verbal opinions,it has to rest on a bible verse,so give us bible verses that says that ;

.[size=14pt]'' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human ''
[/size]

waiting pls,at least i have answered yours.

@Ihedinobi

by Ihedinobi(m): 7:25am On Aug 12
Didn't know this discussion was still running :O

More grace to you, Bro Olaadegbu.

why greasing his elbow when he cant produce a single verse from the bible to show that Jesus is the God Who created all things, the God that spoke when no one answered?



@Frosbel:

by frosbel(m): 12:16am On Aug 14
common guys, you know the end of this discussion will be no agreement, what's the point grin

Come on? Thats after start the wahala.

@ubenedictus,

i have answered your question about 'God's infinite knowledge' in my post above(first post of this page) so im waiting for yours,thanks

BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus

Im not denying that God Almighty do have infinite knowledge pls;


and let me back it up now choosing one of numerous verses that i have;

isaiah 46:9-10;

9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’

this above quote support 'my own' assertion that God do have an infinite knowledge because i have back it up using our common constitution here;the bible,

so the same way that i expect you to back up your own claim and not mere verbal opinions,it has to rest on a bible verse,so give us bible verses that says that ;

.[size=14pt]'' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human ''
[/size]

waiting pls,at least i have answered yours.

ok i believe i can work with that.
I sam2:3 ...for d lord is a God of knowledge. Ps147:5 his understanding is infinite. Jn3:20 he knows all things, act15:18 from all eternity, his knowledge is unsearchable rm11:33, beyond measure ps147:5, perfect job37:16. He know what happens on earth ex3:7, from d past act 15:18, he predicts is46:10, gen 18:18, 2kg8:10. This is all abt the knowledge of d divinity.
The knowledge of God transcends d knowledge of man is55:8,9 d knowledge God posses is too wonderful for mans mind, it is too high ps139:6. Do you suppose that the limited can totally grasp the unlimited? or that the finite can totally contain the infinity? Do you suppose the human mind can search the divinity? My answer is no. This i present to show u that the infinitness of the divinity would not fit the human mind.
Because of that the human mind he can increase in wisdom as lk2:52 attest.
In his divinity he is alike to his father's knowledge. He is d heir of all things, creation was his work, he reflects the divine glory and bears the very stamp of the divine nature heb1:2, truly everything has been given to the son, and everything the fada has is his, whoever knows him has known d fada jn14:7,9, and the son knows everything jn16:29-30, he is the power and wisdom of God 1cor1:24. Like his fada he also predictsmatt24:30 like his father he know what happens on earth rev2:2,9,13,19.3:1,8,15 Infact all the teasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in christ, all Col2:3. So to your question 'why didnt his human nature know the date of the end while on earth?' i posit that on earth all knowledge where hidden in him. His human nature served as a vessel hidding that infinite knowledge that resided in his divinity. The end of the world couldnt come from his humanity, it could only be known thru his divinity. An so from his humanity he couldnt really know when the world would end.
I wish to go futher to say that d apostles understood that by the word 'nor the son' he expressed a decision not to tell becos one would notice that in acts 1 the apostles ask again about the time and he goes on to clarify that it is the will of God that man be ignorant of the times and seasons the father has placed.
So dear friend i agree that the father sets the times and seasons by his own authority, but i would disagree with your insinuation that in his divinity Jesus didnt know because my bible shows me that all knowledge is hidden in christ Jesus and i would disagree even more with your insinuations that christ Jesus didnt posses divinity because my bible tells me that he is God and goes on to clarify that the fulness of the Godhead rested on him bodily. Truly i join in saying that great is the mystery of the divinity.
But grow in grace and knowledge of our lord and saviour Jesus christ. To him be glory both now and to the day of eternity. AMEN.
Peace be unto u.

BARRISTERS: @ubenedictus,

i have answered your question about 'God's infinite knowledge' in my post above(first post of this page) so im waiting for yours,thanks

it seems u just didn exercise enough patience becos abt 5mins after this my post appeared.
Peace

BARRISTERS:

im not talking of 'same image' because humans too are said to be created in Gods image,but same in everything such that no one is greater than another

Jesus posses the very imprint of his fadas nature heb1:2. Equality of nature phil2:6.
Peace

@Ubenedictus,

THIS QUOTES WERE CREDITED TO YOU PROGRESIVELY,

k i believe i can work with that.
I sam2:3 ...for d lord is a God of knowledge. Ps147:5 his understanding is infinite. Jn3:20 he knows all things, act15:18 from all eternity, his knowledge is unsearchable rm11:33, beyond measure ps147:5, perfect job37:16. He know what happens on earth ex3:7, from d past act 15:18, he predicts is46:10, gen 18:18, 2kg8:10. This is all abt the knowledge of d divinity.

YES ITS STILL TALKING ABOUT GOD'S QUALITIES HERE,NO MENTION OF JESUS,...STILL WAITING FOR THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS ('' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')

d divinity.
The knowledge of God transcends d knowledge of man is55:8,9 d knowledge God posses is too wonderful for mans mind, it is too high ps139:6. Do you suppose that the limited can totally grasp the unlimited? or that the finite can totally contain the infinity? Do you suppose the human mind can search the divinity? My answer is no. This i present to show u that the infinitness of the divinity would not fit the human mind.

YOU MADE ME LAUGH HERE......HE,HEE,HEEEE!!! ALL THESE YOUR EXPLANATION ABOVE CONCERNING HUMAN LIMITATION HAS BEEN KNOCKED OUT PATAPATA-POROGODO-YAN-AN-YAN-AN;MEANING;ALTOGETHER BY YOUR NOTION THAT

''that the fulness of the Godhead rested on him bodily''

MY BRO,ARE YOU NOT THE ONE WHO SAYS THAT CHRIST IS GOD-INCARNATE? THAT IS CHRIST IS GOD IN HUMAN FORM WHILE ON EARTH,THAT IS 'HE IS STILL THE SAME GOD IN FULNESS,WHILE IN BODILY FORM' SO HIS FULNESS TESTIFY TO THE FACT THAT HIS BODILY APPEARANCE DOES NOT ALTER HIS LIMITATIONS INCLUDING HIS KNOWLEDGE,THE ONLY CHANGES IS THAT OF APPEARANCE ONLY,IF YOU DONT KNOW.

AGAIN YOU ARE YET TO SUPPLY BIBLE VERSE THAT SAYS ('' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')
AS THE ONCE ABOVE ONLY POINTED TO HUMANS LIMITATIONS WHICH IS NOT AN ISSUE HERE,BUT WHERE THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS THAT 'A PARTICULAR KNOWLEDGE THAT GOD-JESUS RECORDEDLY POSSESES BEFORE WAS'NT AVAILABLE TO HIS MIND WHILE THE FULLNESS OF GOD WAS WITH HIM' SHOW US JUST ONE VERSE PLS.

Because of that the human mind he can increase in wisdom as lk2:52 attest.

SOLOMON TOO INCREASED IN KNOWLEDGE,AND THAT DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR ASSERTION OF 'DIVINITY IMFOMING HUMANITY' AND BESIDE,HE IS NOT GOD.

In his divinity he is alike to his father's knowledge.

NO BIBLE VERSE TO SUPPORT THAT!

He is d heir of all things,creation was his work,

HE WAS APPOINTED TO BE HEIR BY HIS FATHER,THE WAY HE WAS BEING CREATED AS THE FIRST OF GODS CREATION,REV 22:8 (NIV)

he reflects the divine glory

YEES!

and bears the very stamp of the divine nature

UNLESS YOU SUPPLY US WITH VERSES THAT SAID IT.heb1:2 DOES NOT SAY THAT!

truly everything has been given to the son, and everything the fada has is his, whoever knows him has known d fada
jn14:7,9,

JOHN 14:7-9 DID NOT MEAN THAT JESUS IS GOD, HOW DO WE KNOW THIS? IN THE NEXT VERSE;
john 14:10 REVEALED 'WHOSE AUTHORITY' JESUS WAS SPEAKING ,HIS FATHER'AUTHORITY' WHICH MEANS THAT IF A DIRECTOR INSTRUCT HIS SECRETARY OR PERSONAL ASSISTANT P.A. TO WRITE A LETTER,ONLY A SIGNATURE HAS CONFIRM WHOSE 'AUTHORITY' THE CONTENT BEARS, WHICH MEANS ITS NOT THAT OF THE SECRETARY OR P.A, BUT THAT OF THE DIRECTOR HIMSELF.BUT THEN,THE P.A OR SEC CAN REPRESENT THE DIRECTOR IN MANY FUNCTIONS,BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM EQUAL.YOU CAN SEE WHAT AUTORITY REPRESENT IN THAT CONSENT.
JESUS ALSO USED THE SAME WORD OF ONENESS WITH THE BELIEVERS SAYING,''FATHER IN ME AS I AM IN FATHER SO THAT YOU CAN BE ONE WITH US'' DOES THAT MEANS THAT BELIEVERS ARE GOD INCARNATE?

and the son knows everything jn16:29-30,

VERSE 30 OF JOHN 16:30 Now we are sure that You know all things, and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God.”
IT AFFIRMS THAT 'JESUS CAME FROM GOD'AND NOT GOD HIMSELF.
SO,IT DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR POINT STILL.

he is the power and wisdom of God 1cor1:24. Like his fada he also predictsmatt24:30 like his father he know what happens on earth rev2:2,9,13,19.3:1,8,15

NOBODY IS DISPUTING THAT HE RECEIVES ALL THIS THROUGH HIS FATHER GOD ALMIGHTY.
SO IN ALL NO BIBLE VERSE SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT WHY ('' why knowledge Of the day and hour'was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')
AND THAT BRINGS US TO THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL QUOTE YOU CITED BELOW;

Infact all the teasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in christ, all Col2:3. So to your question 'why didnt his human nature know the date of the end while on earth?' i posit that on earth all knowledge where hidden in him. His human nature served as a vessel hidding that infinite knowledge that resided in his divinity.

WHEN COLOSIANS 2:3 SAYS,

Infact all the teasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in christ, all Col2:3.

MY GOODNESS!!!DO YOU UNDERSTANDS IT WELL BEFORE YOU JUST GO ON TO MISAPPLICATE IT?

i posit that on earth all knowledge where hidden in him.

IM SURE OTHER TRINITARIANS WILL NOT BE PROUD WITH YOU HERE AT ALL!, BUT LETS GET THE TRUE MEANING FIRST;
THE SENTENCE READ 'TREASURES OF WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE ARE HIDDEN IN CHRIST' AND NOT 'FROM CHRIST' SO,THERE IS NO MENTION OF BODY VESSELS IN THE VERSE AT ALL!! SO WHERE DO YO GET THAT FROM,IS A MYSERY.

SO WHEN YOU HIDE A THING 'IN ANOTHER THING' IT REMAINS IN THAT OTHER THING, BUT WHEN YOU HIDE A THING 'FROM ANOTHER' IT MEANS IT IS UNAVAILABLE TO THE OTHER.
THIS IS JUST ENGLISH LANGUAGE UNDERSTANDING ERROR,ANYWAY NO PROBLEM.
SO IN ALL,THERE IS NO BIBLE VERSE THAT SURPPORT YOUR FORMULATION

he didnt know becos that knowledge isnt in his human mind.
Unless u cant undastand english.
Peace

NOW LETS SEE SOME SURPRISES BELOW,AND HOW YOU CHANGED YOUR WORD,CONTRACDICT YOURSELF,IN YOUR EARLIER POST ON THIS SAME ISSUE OF YOU TO SUPPLY A BIBLE VERSE THAT SAYS(''knowledge of the day and hour'was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')

sorry friend, u want to put words in my mouth, i didnt say it 'dwindled' i said that knowledge wasnt available to his human mind.

YOUR CLAIM HERE AFFIRMS THE REASON WHY JESUS COULD NOT TELL WHEN THE END WOULD COME,AND YOUR REASON BEING 'UNAVAILABILITY OF THE KNOWLEDGE TO HIS HUMAN MIND'ABOVE,

ONLY FOR YOU TO CHANGE FROM 'UNAVAILABILITY OF THE KNOWLEDGE TO HIS HUMAN MIND' TO 'A DECISION NOT TO TELL' WHICH MEANS IN HIS HUMANITY FORM,HE ACTUALLY KNEW OR POSSESSES THE KNOWLEDGE,BUT HE ACTUALLY WITHELD THAT IMPORTANT IMFORMATION; (BELOW)...THAT IS CLEARLY CONTRADICTORY SIR!!!

he expressed a decision not to tell becos one would notice that in acts 1 the apostles ask again about the time and he goes on to clarify that it is the will of God that man be ignorant of the times and seasons the father has placed.

So to your question [size=14pt]'why didnt his human nature know the date of the end while on earth?'[/size]

WHERE IS THE BIBLE VERSE HERE SIR THAT SPEAK ABOUT CHRIST KNOWLEDGE IN HIS DIVINITY WAS UNAVAILABLE TO HIM IN HIS HUMANITY! NONE

The end of the world couldnt come from his humanity, it could only be known thru his divinity. An so from his humanity he couldnt really know when the world would end.

IM NOT SAYING THAT HUMANS KNOWLEDGE IS LIMITED,BUT WHERE IS THE BIBLE VERSE THAT ACTUALLY SAYS THIS? WHERE DO YOU GET THAT FROM? DEFINATELY NOT IN THE BIBLE SIR.

but i would disagree with your insinuation that in his divinity Jesus didnt know because my bible shows me that all knowledge is hidden in christ

E MA GBA MI O,(MEANING; CAN SOMEONE HELP PLS)!

Jesus and i would disagree even more with your insinuations that christ Jesus didnt posses divinity because my [size=14pt]bible tells me that he is God and goes on to clarify that the fulness of the Godhead rested on him bodily[/size].

OKAY,IF THE FULNESS OF GOD RESTED ON HIM (JESUS) BODILY, THEN WHY DO YOU ALL SAY ALL THIS BELOW EARLIER JUST READ YOUR QUOTES ONE BY ONE;

UBENEDICTUS QUOTES; 'he didnt know becos that knowledge isnt in his human mind'
'knowledge wasnt available to his human mind'
'His human nature served as a vessel hidding that infinite knowledge that resided in his divinity'.

Truly i join in saying that great is the mystery of the divinity.

THE ONLY MISERY HERE IS KNOWN, AND THAT IS YOUR OWN INCONSISTENCIES,AND UNDERSTANDING OF SIMPLE ENGLISH LANGUAGE,EHN,SO GODS WORD IS PURE AND CLEAR.

I HAVE EARLIER WARNED YOU THAT THE ARGUMENT IS ALREADY LOST, IM SURE BRO OLAADEGBU WILL NOT BE HAPPY SEING THIS. I HAVE JUST FOUND SOME NEW FLAWS NOW, LETS GO ON NOW...

i earlier quoted rev 22:8 above, sorry it was prov,8:22;
Proverbs 8:22
New International Version (NIV)
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
where jesus confirmed that he is one of his fathers first creations.

BARRISTERS: i earlier quoted rev 22:8 above, sorry it was prov,8:22;
Proverbs 8:22
New International Version (NIV)
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
where jesus confirmed that he is one of his fathers first creations.

hahaha i cant find the name Jesus in ur quote above. And as for d bolded part, prov wasnt written by Jesus so it would be a stupid thing to say that Jesus confirmed he was a creation in proverbs. And hey i cant even find d word 'creation' there. Ha! U have start twisting scriptures to suit urself beautiful nonsense. I hope u provide a real quote that says or comes close to saying or from which '' jesus is a creature" can b infered.
Peace

Mayb i do have time to write on some points

BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus

YES ITS STILL TALKING ABOUT GOD'S QUALITIES HERE,NO MENTION OF JESUS,

true

...STILL WAITING FOR THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS ('' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')

it would really be stupid to ask me to provide a whole sentence in the bible, it is as though im asking u to provide a verse that say ''Jesus isnt God'', it is a stupid thing to ask, you dont need a verse that say ''that knowledge wasnt available to his human mind'. All that is needed is a verse that shows that the finite human mind cannot grasp or fully contain the infinite divine knowledge and is55:89 and ps139:6 shows it.
Is 55:8,9 for my thoughts are not ur thoughts nor are my ways ur way says the lord. for as d heaven is higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways an ur thought than ur though
that show all i have been saying that the infinite mind transcends the finite human mind.
Ps139:6 the psalmist proclaims that infinite divine knowledge is too wonderful for the human mind and d human mind cant attain it d psalmist says:
6such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is so high that i cannot attain it.
That clearly shows my position that d infinite divine knowledge of christ couldnt be contained by a human mind d psalmist says it 'it is too wonderful' 'so high' 'cannot be attained'. Friend if u cant see that then u need specs.

YOU MADE ME LAUGH HERE......HE,HEE,HEEEE!!! ALL THESE YOUR EXPLANATION ABOVE CONCERNING HUMAN LIMITATION HAS BEEN KNOCKED OUT PATAPATA-POROGODO-YAN-AN-YAN-AN;MEANING;ALTOGETHER BY YOUR NOTION THAT
MY BRO,ARE YOU NOT THE ONE WHO SAYS THAT CHRIST IS GOD-INCARNATE?

actually it didnt come from me it came from the bible u can guess d verse that says 'd fulnes of d divinity rests on him'

THAT IS CHRIST IS GOD IN HUMAN FORM WHILE ON EARTH,THAT IS 'HE IS STILL THE SAME GOD IN FULNESS,WHILE IN BODILY FORM' SO HIS FULNESS TESTIFY TO THE FACT THAT HIS BODILY APPEARANCE DOES NOT ALTER HIS LIMITATIONS INCLUDING HIS KNOWLEDGE,THE ONLY CHANGES IS THAT OF APPEARANCE ONLY,IF YOU DONT KNOW.

hahaha where did u get this idea? As man christ was limited *he occupied space *had to obey gravity etc. Infact he was even born a subject to the law. So my dear his divinity is without limit but his body was. The divine had to operate in d human before there was a miracle.

AGAIN YOU ARE YET TO SUPPLY BIBLE VERSE THAT SAYS ('' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')

still repeating that same idea? I may also ask u to quote the verse that says "jesus is God"

AS THE ONCE ABOVE ONLY POINTED TO HUMANS LIMITATIONS WHICH IS NOT AN ISSUE HERE,BUT WHERE THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS THAT 'A PARTICULAR KNOWLEDGE THAT GOD-JESUS RECORDEDLY POSSESES BEFORE WAS'NT AVAILABLE TO HIS MIND WHILE THE FULLNESS OF GOD WAS WITH HIM' SHOW US JUST ONE VERSE PLS.

i already gave u the verse that say Jesus knows everything and that d fulness of knowledge and wisdom was hidden in him, and i also recall giving u d verse that shows man's nature cannot attain such high a knowledge. How can i help u if u cant add 1+1 and give me a result. Im suprised that u cant draw the conclusion that infinite knowledge cannot be attained by a human mind, even the psalmist can see that but baristers certainly wont.

SOLOMON TOO INCREASED IN KNOWLEDGE,AND THAT DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR ASSERTION OF 'DIVINITY IMFOMING HUMANITY' AND BESIDE,HE IS NOT GOD.

again u refused to understand, by quoting d verse on d growth of knowledge i was showing u something. Colosians say that all the knowledge and wisdom are hidden in christ yet luke says Jesus grew in wisdom. To any one with a sharp mind it would seem the bible contradicted itself, 1st by saying all knowledge is hidden in christ and goes on to say that dsame person wu has all wisdom grew in wisdom. But ofcourse u didnt notice that because u are more interested in debating than discussing. Christ divine nature possesed all wisdom because only d divine can posses all wisdom yet in his human nature he grew in wisdom because every man like solomon had to grow in it, learning is part of d human nature.
Dear friend i would be happy if u limited ur post to 5000 word because most times i use my phone in surfing the net and it can only deal 5000 words, anything more than that may take time for me to respond
i would leave the others til 2morow
peace

@Ubenedictus,
SORRY,YOU HAVE TO USE YOUR LAPTOP, BECAUSE THIS MATTER DEMANDS MORE BB PNONE EHN, OKAY NOW!

i cant find the name Jesus in ur quote above.

VERY GOOD, LET ME PROVE IT NOW, USING (A1,A2 AND A3) BELOW;
NO DOUBT, BIBLE ALWAYS USE WISDOM TO REFER TO JESUS,OR WISDOM PERSONIFIED, AND ONE OF THE BIBLE THAT USE WISDOM TO REFER TO JESUS DIRECTLY IS HERE BELOW;
(A1)
1 Corinthians 1:24

24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
ALSO THE SAME BOOK OF PROVERBS THAT I QUOTED,CHAP.8, VERSE ONE BELOW SAID IT ALL;
(A2)(Proverbs 8:1;
Listen! Wisdom is calling out.
Reason is making herself heard.
HOW DO WE KNOW THAT 'WISDOM' AS USED HERE TRULY IS REFFERING TO JESUS CHRIST;VERSE 27-31 GAVE AN ACCOUNT THAT 'ONLY JESUS GAVE OF HIMSELF' AND NOBODY APART FROM JESUS CAN SAY THAT HE WAS WITH GOD WHILE ALL THIS BELOW TOOK PLACE;

[b](A3)[/b]27 I was there when he set the sky in place,
when he stretched the horizon across the ocean,
28 when he placed the clouds in the sky,
when he opened the springs of the ocean
29 and ordered the waters of the sea
to rise no further than he said.
I was there when he laid the earth's foundations.
30 I was beside him like an architect,[a]
I was his daily source of joy,
always happy in his presence—
31 happy with the world
and pleased with the human race.

CONCLUSION, I HAVE PROVED HOW (A1) CONNECTED TO (A2) AND (A3) ABOVE LOGICALLY.

And as for d bolded part, prov wasnt written by Jesus so it would be a silly thing to say that Jesus confirmed he was a creation in proverbs.

YOUR PROBLEM IS THE UNDERSTANDING OF SIMPLE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, CANT YOU SEE THAT ALL THE WORDS IN THAT PROV CHAP 8 WAS ''IN QUOTE'' WHAT DOES THAT TELLS YOU, THE WRITER'S? OH! COMMON,READ THEM AGAIN BELOW, IT WASN'NT AS IF THE WRITER WAS WRITING 'IN HIS OWN WORD' BUT WAS MAKING A QUOTE AND ALLUDING IT TO A CHARACTER.
SO,WISDOM IS ACTUALLY CONFIRMING THAT HE WAS CREATED BY HIS FATHER WHICH IS GOD ALMIGHTY.AND WHO IS WISDOM HERE, 1 COR 1:24 GAVE US THE ANSWER AS JESUS CHRIST.

And hey i cant even find d word 'creation' there.

WAIT NOW; SEE DIFFERENT BIBLE TRANSLATIONS BELOW, IM NOT THE ONE WHO WROTE THEM;
prov 8:22-23.
(New International Reader's Version)
22 "The Lord created me as the first of his works,
before his acts of long ago.
23 I was formed at the very beginning.
I was formed before the world began.

prov 8:22-23;
(Good News Translation)

22 The Lord created me first of all,
the first of his works, long ago.
23 I was made in the very beginning,
at the first, before the world began.

Prov 8:22
(KING JAMES VERSION)
The LORDH3068 possessedH7069 me in the beginningH7225 of his way,H1870 beforeH6924 his worksH4659 of old.

USING THE STRONG HEBREW DICTIONARY,BECAUSE BIBLE WAS ORIGINALY TRANSLATED FROM HEBREW/GREEK MANUSCRIPTS, SO LETS SEE WHAT 'POSSESSED 7069'AS USED BY (KJV)BIBLE REVEALED SEE BELOW(YOU CAN ALSO SEARCH ON YOUR OWN);

H7069

קנה

qânâh

kaw-naw'

A primitive root; [size=18pt]to {erect} that {is} create

[/size]

SO,JESUS ALSO KNOWN AS WISDOM WAS ACTUALLY CREATED BY GOD ALMIGHTY.

Ha! U have start twisting scriptures to suit urself beautiful nonsense

NO I DIDNT, ALL THIS BIBLE TRANSLATIONS ABOVE ARE NOT WRITTEN BY ME,THEY ARE THERE ON YOUR INTERNET TO VERIFY.

it would really be silly to ask me to provide a whole sentence in the bible, it is as though im asking u to provide a verse that say ''Jesus isnt God'', it is a silly thing to ask, you dont need a verse that say ''that knowledge wasnt available to his human mind'. All that is needed is a verse that shows that the finite human mind cannot grasp or fully contain the infinite divine knowledge and is55:89 and ps139:6 shows it.

EASY BROTHER, INSULT CANNOT HELP YOU HERE, AND IF I MAY REMIND YOU,READ THE TOPIC OF THIS TREAD AGAIN,THEN YOU WILL SEE 'PROVOCATIVE' THERE, AND THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH NOW,'YOU ARE PROVOKED ALREADY' BY CALLING NAMES LIKE SILLY FOR JUST TELLING YOU TO QUOTE A BIBLE VERSE THAT TELLS US THAT ''that knowledge wasnt available to jesus human mind,but you admit that the fullness of God rest on him bodily '', BUT THEN, IF THE FULNESS OF GOD REST ON CHRIST BODILY, THEN WHAT IS THE ESSENCE OF 'GODS FULNESS THAT REST ON HIM BODILY' WHEN HIS KNOWLEDGE IS NOT AFFECTED BY 'GODS FULLNESS'? IT STILL REMAINS ORDINARY, ABI.

THAT IS THE HOLE THAT PROVING TRINITY HAS PUT YOU PEOPLE,BUT INSTEAD OF YOU TO PROVE IT FROM THE BIBLE,IT IS VERY COMMON WITHYOU GUYS TO START INSULTING, BUT THEN I STILL INSIST THAT YOU SHOULD PROVIDE A BIBLE VERSES THAT 'ACTUALLY SPOKE ABOUT 'JESUS NOT UNABLE TO CONNECT WITH KNOWLEDGE THAT HE POSSESES BEFORE IN HEAVEN WHILE HE WAS STILL A HUMAN'.

Is 55:8,9 for my thoughts are not ur thoughts nor are my ways ur way says the lord. for as d heaven is higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways an ur thought than ur though

IM NOT DISPUTING THAT GODS WAYS OR THOUGHT ARE GREATER THAN HUMANS.

that show all i have been saying that the infinite mind transcends the finite human mind.

YES I AGREE, WHICH MEANS THAT SINCE JESUS WAS LIMITED BY ALL HUMANS INFIRMITIES,THEN HE WAS NOT GOD ALMIGHTY! SIMPLE.

Ps139:6 the psalmist proclaims that infinite divine knowledge is too wonderful for the human mind and d human mind cant attain it d psalmist says:
6such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is so high that i cannot attain it.

YES THAT SHOWS THAT GOD POSSESSED GREATER KNOWLEDGE AND ALSO CAUSES HIS SON JESUS TO HAVE GREATER KNOWLEDGE THAN HUMANS,EVEN ON EARTH,HE DISPLAYED IT.

That clearly shows my position that d infinite divine knowledge of christ couldnt be contained by a human mind d psalmist says it 'it is too wonderful' 'so high' 'cannot be attained'. Friend if u cant see that then u need specs.

THE PSALMIST WAS TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF BROTHER,IM SURPRISED THAT YOU CANT SEE THAT, IS HE JESUS?
PLS READ THE FIRST 6 VERSE OF WHERE YOU QUOTED TO PROVE 'HOW JESUS HUMANS MIND DESPITE FULLNESS RESTING ON HIM BODILY CANNOT REMEMBER WHAT HE USED TO KNOW AS GOD ALMIGHTY' READ NOW AND SEE THAT ITS NOT EVEN CONNECTED IN ANYWAYWHATSOEVER WITH JESUS;READ,

O Lord, You have searched me and known me.
2 You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
3 You comprehend my [/b]path and [b]my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.
4 For there is not a word on[b] my tongue,[/b]
But behold, O Lord, You know it altogether.
5 You have hedged me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge[b] is too wonderful for me;
It is high, I cannot attain it.[/b]

WAS HE SAYING THAT JESUS COULD NOT ATTAIN THE KNOWLEDGE OR 'HIM' THE PSALMIST COULD NOT ATTAIN IT?. WAS THE PARAGRAPH WRITTEN IN QUOTE? NOW WHO NEED GLASSES HERE?

actually it didnt come from me it came from the bible u can guess d verse that says 'd fulnes of d divinity rests on him'

BIBLE DID NOT,AND YOU ARE YET TO PROVIDE ONE,THE PSALMIST ABOVE NEVER HELPED YOUR CASE.NO CONNECTION AT ALL!!

hahaha where did u get this idea? As man christ was limited *he occupied space *had to obey gravity etc. Infact he was even born a subject to the law

THEN HE IS NOT GOD ALMIGHTY,BUT GODS SON.
AND I WILL COME BACK WITH WHAT IS MEANT IN COLL 2:9

TO CLEAR THE ISSUE,SINCE YOU CANT PROVE OTHERWISE WHY FULLNESS OF GOD REST ON CHRIST BODILY,AND THE FULNESS WAS NOT EFFECTIVE ON HIS KNOWLEDGE DESPITE BEING 'BODILY'

Colosians say that all the knowledge and wisdom are hidden in christ yet luke says Jesus grew in wisdom. To any one with a sharp mind it would seem the bible contradicted itself, 1st by saying all knowledge is hidden in christ and goes on to say that dsame person wu has all wisdom grew in wisdom

HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN YOUR EARLIER QUOTE BELOW;

UBENEDICTUS QUOTE 'His human nature served as a vessel hidding that infinite knowledge that resided in his divinity'.

FROM WISDOM HIDDEN IN CHRIST TO 'VESSEL HIDDING THAT INFINITE KNOWLEDGE' OKAY, WHILE THE HE IS STILL IN THAT VESSEL, YOU SAID HE IS GROWING IN WISDOM AGAIN STILL IN THE VESSEL? SO HOW IS HE TAPPING A HIDDEN WISDOM? CAN YOU SEE WHAT YOU HAVE CAUSED YOURSELF? IM JUST HERE LAUGHING OOO!

LETS GO NOW!

It's unfortunate that I don't remember the exact details of the story. But there was this guy who, I think, received an inheritance that amounted to 5% of the whole which was 25 (not sure 25 what anymore). His parents insisted that it wasn't 5% but 14%. He decided to prove it to them by long division. But they countered it with incredible logic. He attempted multiplication and they too manipulated it to be 14. He went for repeated additions but they showed that 14 added to itself 5 times amounted to 25 which was the whole.

It was a hilarious video to watch. The guy's frustration at his last attempt with the repeated additions was very funny. But I learned one thing: do not argue with a fool if you don't want to appear one yourself.

Of course all their arguments were fallacious, but how do you expose fallacy to one who either does not know the laws of logic or completely disregards them? Both of you, Ubenedictus and Barristers can claim that you're the right one and the other's the fool and on one Bible. But only one can be right or else both are wrong.

As it is, that Jesus is God is without question. Submitting it to debate makes it less than the sacred cornerstone of life, Christianity and the Church that it is. I am fully convinced and have proved again and again that anyone can read anything they want into the Bible. The only way I know to prove that what is read is true is to see how it treats Jesus Christ. If it makes Him less than He truly is, then it is anti-Christ. It cannot make Him more, you cannot fill a full vessel.

I'm actually bothering because of you, Ubenedictus. It is no small matter to soil sacred things and continuing in this debate amounts to that. Is Jesus Christ God? Of course He is. What is the biggest argument for it? We are saved and children of God. If there is any other thing that is the Gospel, I do not recognize it and neither does the Bible.

Barristers, I do not mean to insult you or show you up for a fool. I have seen a lot of people like you. Filled with intellectual superiority and "mastery" of the Scriptures. You take for granted that you know the truth and nobody else does unless they are of your organization. You hinge your rejection of the Trinity more on the bad track record of the Roman Catholic Church than on anything else. I know that the gymnastics with interpretations are only an effort to validate your position as well. I have no quarrel with the rejection of any denomination. I simply refuse a rejection of the Bible as well simply because one tenet of it (the founding tenet in this case) is held by that denomination. That is ignorance and extreme foolishness.

I pointed out a few questions for anyone holding contrary views to the Trinity to answer here on this thread and on a new one that I opened. Responses were intellectually bankrupt. The most vehement were attacks on the concept of the Trinity whereas the actual answers to the difficulties I raised were practically murmured. I left the questions alone on my thread and simply asked how we are saved by Jesus's Death if He was not God. The answers (only two) were very poor, very deficient. I didn't bother to dissect them to avoid another firestorm.

I made a clear write-up stating what the Trinity is and why it is true and undefended in the Bible. The answers from those of your company to that write-up were very unworthy of people who claim superior knowledge. I'm sorry that I will not post the link here because I'm done with all that foolishness. Anyway, nobody bothered to dissect my write-up and pick it apart logically. All I got was derision and cheap attacks.

The Bible says that we will know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error or falsehood by testing them as to how they hold Jesus Christ. It says that only the Spirit of Truth will confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. What's the big deal with accepting that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? It's just Who He is and how He came that bounded that Scripture.

Anti-christ is that which robs Jesus Christ of His Glory, that which seeks to supplant Him. It isn't only some powerful man that will rule the world in Satan's power at the time of the end. It is the spirit of falsehood. And it seeks only to rob Christ.

I ask you again, how are you saved? I don't need to know. You face it for yourself. I am saved because God Himself took my form and my weakness and went into the prison that held me and destroyed the power of my former master and tore the gates open to lead me out into wide spaces and a wonderful life in the light of His Love. I know this because Jesus lives in my heart. He proves everyday to me that I never have to worry that His strength will fail in my weakness. If His were the strength of less than God, It would not lead me into freedom. You decide for yourself what strength saves you. I have no struggle with sin anymore because my Lord conquered it. He is my God. Jesus deserves my worship and will always have it.

Ihedinobi: It's unfortunate that I don't remember the exact details of the story. But there was this guy who, I think, received an inheritance that amounted to 5% of the whole which was 25 (not sure 25 what anymore). His parents insisted that it wasn't 5% but 14%. He decided to prove it to them by long division. But they countered it with incredible logic. He attempted multiplication and they too manipulated it to be 14. He went for repeated additions but they showed that 14 added to itself 5 times amounted to 25 which was the whole.

It was a hilarious video to watch. The guy's frustration at his last attempt with the repeated additions was very funny. But I learned one thing: do not argue with a fool if you don't want to appear one yourself.

Of course all their arguments were fallacious, but how do you expose fallacy to one who either does not know the laws of logic or completely disregards them? Both of you, Ubenedictus and Barristers can claim that you're the right one and the other's the fool and on one Bible. But only one can be right or else both are wrong.

As it is, that Jesus is God is without question. Submitting it to debate makes it less than the sacred cornerstone of life, Christianity and the Church that it is. I am fully convinced and have proved again and again that anyone can read anything they want into the Bible. The only way I know to prove that what is read is true is to see how it treats Jesus Christ. If it makes Him less than He truly is, then it is anti-Christ. It cannot make Him more, you cannot fill a full vessel.

I'm actually bothering because of you, Ubenedictus. It is no small matter to soil sacred things and continuing in this debate amounts to that. Is Jesus Christ God? Of course He is. What is the biggest argument for it? We are saved and children of God. If there is any other thing that is the Gospel, I do not recognize it and neither does the Bible.

Barristers, I do not mean to insult you or show you up for a fool. I have seen a lot of people like you. Filled with intellectual superiority and "mastery" of the Scriptures. You take for granted that you know the truth and nobody else does unless they are of your organization. You hinge your rejection of the Trinity more on the bad track record of the Roman Catholic Church than on anything else. I know that the gymnastics with interpretations are only an effort to validate your position as well. I have no quarrel with the rejection of any denomination. I simply refuse a rejection of the Bible as well simply because one tenet of it (the founding tenet in this case) is held by that denomination. That is ignorance and extreme foolishness.

I pointed out a few questions for anyone holding contrary views to the Trinity to answer here on this thread and on a new one that I opened. Responses were intellectually bankrupt. The most vehement were attacks on the concept of the Trinity whereas the actual answers to the difficulties I raised were practically murmured. I left the questions alone on my thread and simply asked how we are saved by Jesus's Death if He was not God. The answers (only two) were very poor, very deficient. I didn't bother to dissect them to avoid another firestorm.

I made a clear write-up stating what the Trinity is and why it is true and undefended in the Bible. The answers from those of your company to that write-up were very unworthy of people who claim superior knowledge. I'm sorry that I will not post the link here because I'm done with all that foolishness. Anyway, nobody bothered to dissect my write-up and pick it apart logically. All I got was derision and cheap attacks.

The Bible says that we will know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error or falsehood by testing them as to how they hold Jesus Christ. It says that only the Spirit of Truth will confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. What's the big deal with accepting that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? It's just Who He is and how He came that bounded that Scripture.

Anti-christ is that which robs Jesus Christ of His Glory, that which seeks to supplant Him. It isn't only some powerful man that will rule the world in Satan's power at the time of the end. It is the spirit of falsehood. And it seeks only to rob Christ.

I ask you again, how are you saved? I don't need to know. You face it for yourself. I am saved because God Himself took my form and my weakness and went into the prison that held me and destroyed the power of my former master and tore the gates open to lead me out into wide spaces and a wonderful life in the light of His Love. I know this because Jesus lives in my heart. He proves everyday to me that I never have to worry that His strength will fail in my weakness. If His were the strength of less than God, It would not lead me into freedom. You decide for yourself what strength saves you. I have no struggle with sin anymore because my Lord conquered it. He is my God. Jesus deserves my worship and will always have it.

the spirit that operate in you does not guide you to speak from the bible but from your head still you claim that the spirit is from almighty God.

Look at all the lies you spoo hear that almighty God dies and you dont know you have a problem.

People only said that Jesus is not almighty God but you will not accept that truth and started attacking those that base their teaching on the bible without adding to it like you do.

They said that Jesus is mighty God,
Yahweh=almighty. QED

truthislight:

the spirit that operate in you does not guide you to speak from the bible but from your head still you claim that the spirit is from almighty God.

Look at all the lies you spoo hear that almighty God dies and you dont know you have a problem.

People only said that Jesus is not almighty God but you will not accept that truth and started attacking those that base their teaching on the bible without adding to it like you do.

They said that Jesus is mighty God,
Yahweh=almighty. QED

I believe that the above is an example of the derision that I spoke about. There's far less need now, if there was any at all before, to link you to the thread of which I spoke. I didn't even mention the accusations made against my character that were probably meant to invalidate my testimony.

Anyway, truthislight, you may as well save your energy. I am not interested at all in engaging you over anything that pertains to the Bible. But if you're having fun deriding every opinion or comment or testimony that I offer, by all means continue. I would only advise that you be sure that you're in the right because if at the summing of all things you're found in the wrong, your wrong might be too grievous for you to handle.

Ihedinobi: It's unfortunate that I don't remember the exact details of the story. But there was this guy who, I think, received an inheritance that amounted to 5% of the whole which was 25 (not sure 25 what anymore). His parents insisted that it wasn't 5% but 14%. He decided to prove it to them by long division. But they countered it with incredible logic. He attempted multiplication and they too manipulated it to be 14. He went for repeated additions but they showed that 14 added to itself 5 times amounted to 25 which was the whole.

It was a hilarious video to watch. The guy's frustration at his last attempt with the repeated additions was very funny. But I learned one thing: do not argue with a fool if you don't want to appear one yourself.

Of course all their arguments were fallacious, but how do you expose fallacy to one who either does not know the laws of logic or completely disregards them? Both of you, Ubenedictus and Barristers can claim that you're the right one and the other's the fool and on one Bible. But only one can be right or else both are wrong.

As it is, that Jesus is God is without question. Submitting it to debate makes it less than the sacred cornerstone of life, Christianity and the Church that it is. I am fully convinced and have proved again and again that anyone can read anything they want into the Bible. The only way I know to prove that what is read is true is to see how it treats Jesus Christ. If it makes Him less than He truly is, then it is anti-Christ. It cannot make Him more, you cannot fill a full vessel.

I'm actually bothering because of you, Ubenedictus. It is no small matter to soil sacred things and continuing in this debate amounts to that. Is Jesus Christ God? Of course He is. What is the biggest argument for it? We are saved and children of God. If there is any other thing that is the Gospel, I do not recognize it and neither does the Bible.

Barristers, I do not mean to insult you or show you up for a fool. I have seen a lot of people like you. Filled with intellectual superiority and "mastery" of the Scriptures. You take for granted that you know the truth and nobody else does unless they are of your organization. You hinge your rejection of the Trinity more on the bad track record of the Roman Catholic Church than on anything else. I know that the gymnastics with interpretations are only an effort to validate your position as well. I have no quarrel with the rejection of any denomination. I simply refuse a rejection of the Bible as well simply because one tenet of it (the founding tenet in this case) is held by that denomination. That is ignorance and extreme foolishness.

I pointed out a few questions for anyone holding contrary views to the Trinity to answer here on this thread and on a new one that I opened. Responses were intellectually bankrupt. The most vehement were attacks on the concept of the Trinity whereas the actual answers to the difficulties I raised were practically murmured. I left the questions alone on my thread and simply asked how we are saved by Jesus's Death if He was not God. The answers (only two) were very poor, very deficient. I didn't bother to dissect them to avoid another firestorm.

I made a clear write-up stating what the Trinity is and why it is true and undefended in the Bible. The answers from those of your company to that write-up were very unworthy of people who claim superior knowledge. I'm sorry that I will not post the link here because I'm done with all that foolishness. Anyway, nobody bothered to dissect my write-up and pick it apart logically. All I got was derision and cheap attacks.

The Bible says that we will know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error or falsehood by testing them as to how they hold Jesus Christ. It says that only the Spirit of Truth will confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. What's the big deal with accepting that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? It's just Who He is and how He came that bounded that Scripture.

Anti-christ is that which robs Jesus Christ of His Glory, that which seeks to supplant Him. It isn't only some powerful man that will rule the world in Satan's power at the time of the end. It is the spirit of falsehood. And it seeks only to rob Christ.

I ask you again, how are you saved? I don't need to know. You face it for yourself. I am saved because God Himself took my form and my weakness and went into the prison that held me and destroyed the power of my former master and tore the gates open to lead me out into wide spaces and a wonderful life in the light of His Love. I know this because Jesus lives in my heart. He proves everyday to me that I never have to worry that His strength will fail in my weakness. If His were the strength of less than God, It would not lead me into freedom. You decide for yourself what strength saves you. I have no struggle with sin anymore because my Lord conquered it. He is my God. Jesus deserves my worship and will always have it.

My bro what's up.....

I never knew this whole saga is still on......

I've dropped all I got on this post.....

The truth is for me to believe Jesus is the almighty,the same as the father or the father(Yahweh),then it means I have to also believe Jesus lied when he was on earth....

##And that the almighty was not immortal @ some point in time..........

##I have to believe that the almighty can be killed and can die..........

## I have to believe that the almighty isn't a spirit...(Meaning Jesus lied @ john 4:24)


##And then I have to believe that Jesus suffered from multiple personality disorder.........

I can't wake up 1 day and tell my kids that GOD can die and infact did die.....

No amount of analogy can make u teach ur kids that.......

The trinity should never bring us to a level were we have to assume the almighty did die......that is totally absurd.....

I knw on this thread we've discussed @ length....u'v made good points ,so also everybody here......

But please Yahweh(the Father and almighty) does not and cannot die....never!!!!!!!!.....its against who he is............his son was the one who died(the last adam).......and his son is not d same as Him or HIM........


Please I beg u!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......

I'm not even refusing d trinity becos it came from d catholics,I'm refusing it because it is confusion itself..............

D doctrine has been modified over and over again because its just not supported by d scriptures.......

I mean take a look @ the explanation a comrade of ours gave as to Jesus's words ""the day and hour nobody knows,not even the angels in d heavens nor the SON,but only the FATHER""......

If the trinity has not blurred d vision of its apologist,I suppose that scripture is so clear as to the fact that Jesus isn't the FAther or the almighty.....

If some1 can say Jesus said those words because his knowledge was limited since he was flesh n blood,but also @ d same time the almighty GOD bodily then I see the height of contradiction......that is confusion @ its peak...

No explanation can excuse the fact that Jesus is different and less than his Father.....

Its so crystal clear......

Just that singular scripture is enough for me not to believe in the trinity dogma..........


Thank u for everything........

Meanwhile u haven't still told me if ur from rivers state or not..:-)

ijawkid:

My bro what's up.....

I never knew this whole saga is still on......

I've dropped all I got on this post.....

The truth is for me to believe Jesus is the almighty,the same as the father or the father(Yahweh),then it means I have to also believe Jesus lied when he was on earth....

##And that the almighty was not immortal @ some point in time..........

##I have to believe that the almighty can be killed and can die..........

## I have to believe that the almighty isn't a spirit...(Meaning Jesus lied @ john 4:24)


##And then I have to believe that Jesus suffered from multiple personality disorder.........

I can't wake up 1 day and tell my kids that GOD can die and infact did die.....

No amount of analogy can make u teach ur kids that.......

The trinity should never bring us to a level were we have to assume the almighty did die......that is totally absurd.....

I knw on this thread we've discussed @ length....u'v made good points ,so also everybody here......

But please Yahweh(the Father and almighty) does not and cannot die....never!!!!!!!!.....its against who he is............his son was the one who died(the last adam).......and his son is not d same as Him or HIM........


Please I beg u!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......

I'm not even refusing d trinity becos it came from d catholics,I'm refusing it because it is confusion itself..............

D doctrine has been modified over and over again because its just not supported by d scriptures.......

I mean take a look @ the explanation a comrade of ours gave as to Jesus's words ""the day and hour nobody knows,not even the angels in d heavens nor the SON,but only the FATHER""......

If the trinity has not blurred d vision of its apologist,I suppose that scripture is so clear as to the fact that Jesus isn't the FAther or the almighty.....

If some1 can say Jesus said those words because his knowledge was limited since he was flesh n blood,but also @ d same time the almighty GOD bodily then I see the height of contradiction......that is confusion @ its peak...

No explanation can excuse the fact that Jesus is different and less than his Father.....

Its so crystal clear......

Just that singular scripture is enough for me not to believe in the trinity dogma..........


Thank u for everything........

Meanwhile u haven't still told me if ur from rivers state or not..:-)

I answered you back at my thread. I'm not

I'm glad that at least our discussions concerning this matter ended on a gracious note. I'm really very sorry that disagreement between me and you persists. But there's nothing I know that I can do about it, except maybe pray. It's a very grave matter and error in it translates to error in everything else in the Scriptures and relating to God. But, I am grateful that we ended it on my thread. I came here in the hopes to end it here as well.

Peace be with you, my friend.

@Ihedinobi
YOU RE WELCOME BACK AFTER GREASING OLAADEGBU'S ELBOWS,HE DISAPPEARED FIAAAM!.
YOUR POSTS BELOW;

I'm actually bothering because of you, Ubenedictus. It is no small matter to soil sacred things and continuing in this debate amounts to that. Is Jesus Christ God? Of course He is.

I HAVE ALREADY WARNED HIM AS WELL THAT ON PAGE (11) OF THIS TREAD,HE LOST THE ARGUMENT OUTRIGHTLY,AND AS A TYPICAL NIGERIAN,OMO-NNA FOR THAT THAT MATTER,..MBA-NUUU,I NO GO GREE,.
AND HE JUST GOT HIMSELF MORE AND MORE ROPED IN A CORNER WHERE NO SCRIPTURE SUPPORTS HIS FORMULATION.
ANYWAY,YOU HAVE ADMITTED HERE THAT 'THE TRINITY CONCEPT'IS UNDEFENDED IN THE BIBLE,WHICH AMOUNTS TO CHRISTIANS CONSTITUTION,SO WHY DO MANY STILL IMPOSE THAT HERESY FOR GODS SAKE IN THIS MODERN WORLD?. I AM PERSONALLY THANKING WILLIAMS TYNDALE FOR DYING FOR A COURSE,THAT IS MAKING SURE THAT HE TRANSLATES THE BIBLE TO EXPOSE THIS HERESY,IM MOVED WITH PITY WHEN I SAW THE HORROR OF BURNING HIM WITH 'A HOLY BIBLE' SO AS TO HIDE THE TRUTH,BUT CENTURIES LATER,THE TRUTH CONTINUE TO FRUSTRATE THE TRINITARIANS AND THEY HAVE NO SHAME OR ANSWER THAN TO RESUME TO NORMAL THING...INSULT.

ihedinobi.quote..
I made a clear write-up stating what the Trinity is and why it is true and undefended in the Bible.

THEN HEAR WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS;
(Revelation 22:18,19).
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book; if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away that person's share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book
SO WHEN YOU CLEARLY ADDED TO THE SACRED SCRIPTURES NOW, WHO DO YOU BLAME?

Is Jesus Christ God? Of course He is. What is the biggest argument for it? We are saved and children of God. If there is any other thing that is the Gospel, I do not recognize it and neither does the Bible.

YOU SEE HOW YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF, FROM 'UNDEFENDED BY THE BIBLE' TO 'NEITHER DO BIBLE RECOGNISE REJECTING WHAT IS NOT CONTAINED IN THE BIBLE' THERE IS NO WAY YOUR OPINION CAN EVER BE EQUATED TO MATCH THE BIBLE.

[b]I'm sorry that I will not post the link here because I'm done with all that foolishness. [/b]Anyway, nobody bothered to dissect my write-up and pick it apart logically. All I got was derision and cheap attacks.

IMHAPPY THAT YOU KNEW THAT IT IS FOOLISHNESS TO FORCE YOUR PERSONAL OPINIONS ON OTHERS LIKE 72VIRGIN MYTHS OF ISLAMIST EXTREEMISTS,PEOPLE HERE ARE MORE INFORMED THAN YOURSELF,IBEG HIDE AM WITH YOU OO,NO TALK SAY I NO TALK AM O,ENH-HEEEN!.

The Bible says that we will know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error or falsehood by testing them as to how they hold Jesus Christ.

WHERE EXACTLY DOES THE BIBLE SAYS THAT?

What's the big deal with accepting that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? It's just Who He is and how He came that bounded that Scripture.

NO BIG DEAL BRO, BUT A HERESY THAT HE IS THE SAME PERSON AS THE ALMIGHTY GOD,WHEN HE SAID BY HIMSELF THAT 'MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I'. ,SHIKENAAN!

I left the questions alone on my thread and simply asked how we are saved by Jesus's Death if He was not God. The answers (only two) were very poor, very deficient. I didn't bother to dissect them to avoid another firestorm.

VERY SIMPLE, HE SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON JESUS CHRIST TO DIE FOR OUR SIN,MATHEW 3:17
(And a voice from heaven said, [size=14pt]"This is my Son, whom I love;[/size] with him I am well pleased."SO GOD HIMSELF DECLARED WITH A LOUD VOICE FROM HEAVEN SPEAKING LOUDLY DURING JESUS BAPTISM BY JOHN,THAT JESUS WAS HIS SON,HE NEVER SAID ANYTHING THAT HE 'GOD ALMIGHTY' IS THE ONE BEING BAPTISED BY JOHN,BUT RATHER ''HIS SON WHOM HE LOVED''. SO IT WAS GODS SON THAT GOD SENT TO DIE FOR OUR SIN AS A PROPRIEATORY SACRIFICE TO ATTONE FOR OUR SIN,SINCE EVEN JESUS DECLARED THAT ONLY GOD ALMIGHTY DESERVES OUR WORSHIP AND SO THROUGH THE OFFICE OF CHRIST,OUR REQUEST ARE CHANNELLED TO GOD,HE SERVES LIKE GODS SECRETARY IN THIS RESPECT,OKAY? SO ITS A CHEAP QUESTION BRO.

Barristers, I do not mean to insult you or show you up for a fool. I have seen a lot of people like you. Filled with intellectual superiority and "mastery" of the Scriptures. You take for granted that you know the truth and nobody else does unless they are of your organization.

IM NEVER AFFECTED EVEN IF YOU DO INSULT,BUT I WILL RATHER SHOW YOU MATURITY OF NEVER RETURNING IT BACK BUT HOLD EVER FIRM TO EXPOSING FALSE TEACHINGS!
I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY MY ORGANISATION HERE,IM ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR MY STATEMENTS ONLY,OKAY?

that Jesus is God is without question.

YES,HE SHARE A TITLE LIKE GOD,LORD,..ETC WITH HIS FATHER,AND ONLY TO AN EXTENT THAT HE IS CALLED MIGHTY GOD, BUT NEVER CALLED ALMIGHTY GOD,WHICH YOU CANNOT REFUSE,AND WHICH MEANS HE IS NOT THE SAME WITH HIS FATHER THE ALMIGHTY, SIMPLE.
SO,YOU HAVE TO PROVE IT! BUT CALLING NAMES,OR INSULTS DOES NOT HELP YOU BUT RATHER A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OFTEN DISPLAYS WHILE BEING QUESTIONED TO PROVE,SORRY EHN,IM USED TO THAT.
SORRY.

Ihedinobi:

I believe that the above is an example of the derision that I spoke about. There's far less need now, if there was any at all before, to link you to the thread of which I spoke. I didn't even mention the accusations made against my character that were probably meant to invalidate my testimony.

Anyway, truthislight, you may as well save your energy. I am not interested at all in engaging you over anything that pertains to the Bible. But if you're having fun deriding every opinion or comment or testimony that I offer, by all means continue. I would only advise that you be sure that you're in the right because if at the summing of all things you're found in the wrong, your wrong might be too grievous for you to handle.

guy,

am not saying you are a bad guy.

Simple, quote the bible whenever you want to teach, use the bible and allow all you want to say to be base on what the bible says, is that a bad thing?

How can i hate you!

I dont hate people, i only hate lies and i cant negotiate that, cus the father of the lie is satan, and lies lead people astray.

Your passion is not a bad thing, but base it on the bible.

Can you reward yourself with eternal life? No?
If it is God that will reward people with eternal life should we not stick to his word?
Unless you feel the bible is not God's word.
Have a nice day.
Peace

Ihedinobi:

I answered you back at my thread. I'm not

I'm glad that at least our discussions concerning this matter ended on a gracious note. I'm really very sorry that disagreement between me and you persists. But there's nothing I know that I can do about it, except maybe pray. It's a very grave matter and error in it translates to error in everything else in the Scriptures and relating to God. But, I am grateful that we ended it on my thread. I came here in the hopes to end it here as well.

Peace be with you, my friend.

pls let that your prayer not include me o!

I dont want the trinity God three thing

Ihedino:
It was a hilarious video to watch. The guy's frustration at his last attempt with the repeated additions was very funny. But I learned one thing: do not argue with a fool if you don't want to appear one yourself.

good advice.

Of course all their arguments were fallacious, but how do you expose fallacy to one who either does not know the laws of logic or completely disregards them? Both of you, Ubenedictus and Barristers can claim that you're the right one and the other's the fool and on one Bible. But only one can be right or else both are wrong.

As it is, that Jesus is God is without question. Submitting it to debate makes it less than the sacred cornerstone of life, Christianity and the Church that it is. I am fully convinced and have proved again and again that anyone can read anything they want into the Bible. The only way I know to prove that what is read is true is to see how it treats Jesus Christ. If it makes Him less than He truly is, then it is anti-Christ. It cannot make Him more, you cannot fill a full vessel.

another good point, u are begining to sound more and more like my mum, i do remember her warning me never to argue a point of doctrine, she had this rule where argument were concerned, it was "present what u blive in d best way u can, give reasonable proof, discuss the issue if the person truly wishes to know d truth, listen b4 u talk, never argue doctrines becos ur work is to do ur best to present d truth it is the work of d holyspirit to convince one who has an open mind.
It seems i broke most of her rules, for one with a brain the biblical and logical proof by trinitarians so far is enough. Adding more wont help one who doesnt wish to learn

I'm actually bothering because of you, Ubenedictus. It is no small matter to soil sacred things and continuing in this debate amounts to that.

no need to bother, im out.

You hinge your rejection of the Trinity more on the bad track record of the Roman Catholic Church than on anything else.

"this child is set for d rise and fall of many in israel, a sign that is spoken against"- the gospel of luke.

I simply refuse a rejection of the Bible as well simply because one tenet of it (the founding tenet in this case) is held by that denomination.

i wonder why he uses a bible, those old catholics were instrumental in compiling the new testament, since he is afraid of anything catholic then maybe he will soon stop using d bible. Or maybe he is afraid becos d cc was d first to officially define it as doctrine in d council of nicea, whatever it is i hope he finds peace.

I pointed out a few questions for anyone holding contrary views to the Trinity to answer here on this thread and on a new one that I opened. Responses were intellectually bankrupt. I left the questions alone on my thread and simply asked how we are saved by Jesus's Death if He was not God.

I made a clear write-up stating what the Trinity is and why it is true and undefended in the Bible. The answers from those of your company to that write-up were very unworthy of people who claim superior knowledge. I'm sorry that I will not post the link here because I'm done with all that foolishness. Anyway, nobody bothered to dissect my write-up and pick it apart logically. All I got was derision and cheap attacks.

The Bible says that we will know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error or falsehood by testing them as to how they hold Jesus Christ. It says that only the Spirit of Truth will confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. What's the big deal with accepting that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? It's just Who He is and how He came that bounded that Scripture.

Anti-christ is that which robs Jesus Christ of His Glory, that which seeks to supplant Him. It isn't only some powerful man that will rule the world in Satan's power at the time of the end. It is the spirit of falsehood.

well as i leave d thread, i wish to give u all a verse to think about.
Col2:8,9
so it is that no one makes prey of u by philosophy and empty deceit according to human traditions, accding to d elemental spirits of d universe and not accding to christ for in him the whole fullness of diety(the Godhead) dwells bodily
let the scriptures decide those who are of d opinion that d fulnes of d Godhead didnt dwell in christ are walking on the traditions of men, waxing empty deceit and are contrary to the word of God.
If you are of the opinion that d fulness of d Godhead didnt dwell in christ then please change that opinion and assent to the word of God.
Peace

This is d last time i would be picking up someones post and pointing out where it differs from my position in this thread. I may read but wont answer unless im personally asked an honest question.

ijawkid:

My bro what's up.....

I never knew this whole saga is still on......

I've dropped all I got on this post.....

The truth is for me to believe Jesus is the almighty,the same as the father or the father(Yahweh),then it means I have to also believe Jesus lied when he was on earth....

please no one said Jesus is d same person as d father, no! D father and d son are two distinct beings

##And that the almighty was not immortal @ some point in time..........

d physical body of Jesus experienced death but "d fullness of d Godhead that dwelt" in him cannot die

##I have to believe that the almighty can be killed and can die..........

d divinity cannot die.

## I have to believe that the almighty isn't a spirit...(Meaning Jesus lied @ john 4:24)

that happens becos u have a different understandin of d word 'spirit' compared to most xtians.

##And then I have to believe that Jesus suffered from multiple personality disorder.........

this is ur idea

I can't wake up 1 day and tell my kids that GOD can die and infact did die.....

but u can tell ur kids that d fulnes of d Godhead dwelt on Jesus christ and that his physical body suffered death even though his Godhead couldnt die.

No amount of analogy can make u teach ur kids that.......

trust me when i say many kids have a gud understanding of d godhead dat cant die even wen d physical body did die.

But please Yahweh(the Father and almighty) does not and cannot die....never!!!!!!!!.....its against who he is............his son was the one who died(the last adam).......and his son is not d same as Him or HIM........

i think this is where u misunderstand. D fada and d son are two distinct persons, d son came in human form, d fada didnt, the physical body of d son experience physical death but "d fulnes of d godhead that dwelt in him" cant die. The son was resurrected and sits at d right had of d fada and all thing are under his authority.

D doctrine has been modified over and over again because its just not supported by d scriptures.......

this just isnt true.

I mean take a look @ the explanation a comrade of ours gave as to Jesus's words ""the day and hour nobody knows,not even the angels in d heavens nor the SON,but only the FATHER""......

and d explanation is simple, as d psalmist say, divine knowledge is "to wonderful" for d human mind and d human mind "cannot attain it".

If the trinity has not blurred d vision of its apologist,I suppose that scripture is so clear as to the fact that Jesus isn't the FAther or the almighty.....

no body said Jesus is d fada u are arguing a position that wasnt made by a trinitarian. In essence u are arguing against urself.

If some1 can say Jesus said those words because his knowledge was limited since he was flesh n blood,but also @ d same time the almighty GOD bodily then I see the height of contradiction......that is confusion @ its peak...

actually that "d fulness of d godhead dwelt" in christ is in scriptures
*that while christ was on earth he said "nor d son" is also in scripture.
* and lastly that it is not mans place to know d times and season is also scripture.
So maybe u should try and ask scripture, why did d he in whom d fulnes of d Godhead dwelt and in whom is hidden all d treasures of knowledge not know d date of d end? Maybe u would also find as i did that divine knowledge is ''to wonderful" for d human mind as d psalmist say.

No explanation can excuse the fact that Jesus is different and less than his Father.....

phi2:6

Its so crystal clear......

Just that singular scripture is enough for me not to believe in the trinity dogma..........
Thank u for everything........

bye.
Peace b with ur being.

No explanation can excuse the fact that Jesus is different and less than his Father.....
phi2:6

Phil 2:6 Who,G3739 beingG5225 inG1722 the formG3444 of God,G2316 thought itG2233 notG3756 robberyG725 to beG1511 equalG2470 with God:G2316


G3444

μορφή

morphē

mor-fay'


shape ; figuratively nature: - form.


greek words here;[size=14pt]form here means 'figurative nature' [/size]and does not mean Gods real form okay?