Lazyyouth4u:

In what sane country do governments mandate citizens to make contributions to a healthcare fund (or any other public service) at the point of purchasing goods or services? Are people not already paying taxes? Are people not making contributions through the National Health Insurance Scheme? People must think before making such impractical comments. It’s ridiculous that anyone can even think like that in 2020!

In virtually every country you pay tax at the point of purchasing good and services. That tax is used by the government in funding critical infrastructure including health.

Every country has a means of ensuring tax compliance for most citizens. In Nigeria where we have little a huge part of the economy is informal and we have little or no rounded means of documentation that incorporates taxes, alot of people go untaxed. There is a reason why the government insisted on taxing bank transactions. It's simply because of the coverage.

If you don't agree, can you suggest a way we can ensure a good number of Nigerians can be taxed a token to fund health? A way that roughly taxes people based on their income.

If you say NHIS, I'd say it can be a base, but it covers too little percentage of taxable Nigerians. It has been proven in most populous nations that healthcare is best funded collectively. Everyone taxable has to contribute


We should understand that Nigeria is a rapidly growing country of over 200 million people. If we want to get good quality healthcare available to all, then the funding has to come from somewhere. Study any country with good health statistics and see what amount and percentage of their budget is spent on health.

That said, I also opine we have to curb corruption and wastage in the system and ensure accountability. When people knowingly pay for a service, they expect something in return

maishai:


This scheme being described is equivalent to something like Pension Earnings Contribution already in place in Nigeria...........

If you really take a look at it, Its just another means of siphoning money from the organised working class

Most of this schemes that we see that has worked in the west, when introduced into Nigeria turns into something else, I can give xamples of the Pension earnings contribution and Soverign wealth funds


These schemes has never benefitted the Nigerian Masses

Nigeria has a national health insurance scheme. Contributions for health insurance are deducted from employee’s paychecks. Even the informal sector is covered. This is how health insurance works globally. No country mandates its citizens to make their health insurance contributions at the point of purchasing goods like recharge cards. Also, no country mandates profitable companies to contribute its profits for citizens’ health insurance after the companies have paid taxes. This is 2020.

jedisco:


In virtually every country you pay tax at the point of purchasing good and services. That tax is used by the government in funding critical infrastructure including health.

Every country has a means of ensuring tax compliance for most citizens. In Nigeria where we have little a huge part of the economy is informal and we have little or no rounded means of documentation that incorporates taxes, alot of people go untaxed. There is a reason why the government insisted on taxing bank transactions. It's simply because of the coverage.

If you don't agree, can you suggest a way we can ensure a good number of Nigerians can be taxed a token to fund health? A way that roughly taxes people based on their income.

If you say NHIS, I'd say it can be a base, but it covers too little percentage of taxable Nigerians. It has been proven in most populous nations that healthcare is best funded collectively. Everyone taxable has to contribute


We should understand that Nigeria is a rapidly growing country of over 200 million people. If we want to get good quality healthcare available to all, then the funding has to come from somewhere. Study any country with good health statistics and see what amount and percentage of their budget is spent on health.

That said, I also opine we have to curb corruption and wastage in the system and ensure accountability. When people knowingly pay for a service, they expect something in return

Bro, no country can ever ask its citizens to make contributions for health insurance when they go to buy recharge cards. That is ridiculous. I am not talking about VAT that is already factored into the purchase price. Government can increase taxes and try to ensure that most of its citizens are contributing to the NHIS. But it cannot force people to make payments for health insurance when they go to buy recharge cards. That is absurd and makes no sense in 2020!

jedisco:


In virtually every country you pay tax at the point of purchasing good and services. That tax is used by the government in funding critical infrastructure including health.

Every country has a means of ensuring tax compliance for most citizens. In Nigeria where we have little a huge part of the economy is informal and we have little or no rounded means of documentation that incorporates taxes, alot of people go untaxed. There is a reason why the government insisted on taxing bank transactions. It's simply because of the coverage.

If you don't agree, can you suggest a way we can ensure a good number of Nigerians can be taxed a token to fund health? A way that roughly taxes people based on their income.

If you say NHIS, I'd say it can be a base, but it covers too little percentage of taxable Nigerians. It has been proven in most populous nations that healthcare is best funded collectively. Everyone taxable has to contribute


We should understand that Nigeria is a rapidly growing country of over 200 million people. If we want to get good quality healthcare available to all, then the funding has to come from somewhere. Study any country with good health statistics and see what amount and percentage of their budget is spent on health.

That said, I also opine we have to curb corruption and wastage in the system and ensure accountability. When people knowingly pay for a service, they expect something in return

I have never trusted Nigerian Data on Taxes............................. I am of the opinion that the Government should transform all Uniformed men into tax collectors................ The average Nigerian is already over taxed. Where are all this revenue going to : alphabeta and their cohort........

Any body saying Nigerians dont pay taxes and Government are not collecting enough taxes is a stranger and not living in Nigeria

Lazyyouth4u:

Bro, no country can ask its citizens to make contributions for health insurance when they go to buy recharge cards. That is ridiculous. I am not talking about VAT that is already factored into the purchase price.

What I'm pointing out is that every country looks for suitable means to tax citizens. A method used in country A may not be successful in country B.

Case in point is tax paid for bank transfers. Not many countries tax people for that but it has proven to be effective in Nigeria because of our largely informal sector. Also, in some countries, you pay TV tax if you stream or watch live TV, you pay extra tax for non-electric vehicles, you pay sugar tax on fizzy drinks e.t.c. All these are not done in Nigeria but have worked elsewhere.

Like I said, you may not agree with it, but what other suggestions do you have?
How many people in the informal sector pay for NHIS? What is bad if 1-5 naira is deducted out of every 100 naira recharge for health?

Most developed countries tax rate averages between 20-45% of taxable income for most citizens. That is aside VAT paid when purchases are made and added tax in other areas. That comes with its benefits too that we don't get

Lazyyouth4u:

Sorry bro but how is this related to my point about the impracticality of making citizens contribute to healthcare at the point of purchasing goods? You are probably mixing me up with someone else.

Ha , when I respond to you and transatlantic.

I picture one person .

It would be a shock to discover it's not d same person on d two accounts.

maishai:


I have never trusted Nigerian Data on Taxes............................. I am of the opinion that the Government should transform all Uniformed men into tax collectors................ The average Nigerian is already over taxed. Where are all this revenue going to : alphabeta and their cohort........

Any body saying Nigerians dont pay taxes and Government are not collecting enough taxes is a stranger and not living in Nigeria

Lol with that extremely informal economy, you actually don't need stats , just look around.

maishai:


I have never trusted Nigerian Data on Taxes............................. I am of the opinion that the Government should transform all Uniformed men into tax collectors................ The average Nigerian is already over taxed. Where are all this revenue going to : alphabeta and their cohort........

Any body saying Nigerians dont pay taxes and Government are not collecting enough taxes is a stranger and not living in Nigeria

The average Nigerian is not over taxed. The average Nigerian pays little or no tax.
What we have is wastage in the system and multiple taxation of a very few.

Most developed countries tax rate averages between 20-45% of taxable income for most citizens. That is aside VAT paid when purchases are made and added tax in other areas. That comes with its benefits too that we don't get. We have a huge infrastructural deficit and a growing population of over 200 million. If we want to make progress, it has to come at a price.

The fact that anytime people mention migration here, people keep saying high tax shows ypu what the average Nigerian thinks about taxation

jedisco:


The average Nigerian is not over taxed. The average Nigerian pays little or no tax.
What we have is wastage in the system and multiple taxation of a very few.

Most developed countries tax rate averages between 20-45% of taxable income for most citizens. That is aside VAT paid when purchases are made and added tax in other areas. That comes with its benefits too that we don't get. We have a huge infrastructural deficit and a growing population of over 200 million. If we want to make progress, it has to come at a price.

The fact that anytime people mention migration here, people keep saying high tax shows ypu what the average Nigerian thinks about taxation

Tell them.

Imagine depending on the private sector to fund critical sector's in a country with 200 million.


The best thing this government can do is to build factories in partnership with the private sector.

Factories to gulp up unemployment and make the economy more formal so that more jobs can be created and tax base expanded.

It's a win win situation.


Factories yeah.

There is a very thin line between Taxation and extortion........................... I happen to have witnessed the birth and growth of a local market in the village..................... This local Government Chairmen, councellors, honorables and OBAs generate a lot of revenue from a very humble market from space allocation, store allocation, and vehicles that deliver food stuffs and Goods........even the water provided in this market cant be acccessed by store owners, you pay for this water........yet the market can best be descibed as a Cesspit

The local government never see it fit to take the market to the next level........ All what they are looking for is for you to bring in a new idea, make money and they come for their own cut with all manner of new levies

Most people that talk about taxes on forum are not incident to major taxes.............. You cant make money in Nigeria without the Government rearing its head to collect taxes............

The Government just has to improve its accountability to the people

If you happen to run a medium scale manufacturing facility and Government does not disturb you with all manners of levies and Taxes, Please tell me let me join you there

If you know the amount of businesses that have folded up because of taxation................

Many people here quote developed economies but the harsh reality in Nigeria is that the bulk of Nigeria runs an informal economy

This Economy is not Legible to KPMG and Deloitte in their AC room with accounting software.......

Trillions is exchanged everyday in our economy and this money is extremely taxed.........

There is no level of wealth someone has in Nigeria that the Government has not found a way extracting tax from the citizens....what baffles me is the amount usually reported as being collected as tax revenue

maishai:
Many people here quote developed economies but the harsh reality in Nigeria is that the bulk of Nigeria runs an informal economy

This Economy is not Legible to KPMG and Deloitte in their AC room with accounting software.......

Trillions is exchanged everyday in our economy and this money is extremely taxed.........

There is no level of wealth someone has in Nigeria that the Government has not found a way extracting tax from the citizens....what baffles me is the amount usually reported as being collected as tax revenue

Informal economies are low output economies.

Build factories, train iya seki selling robo , collect her taxes through her employer.

The entire economy is not working at optimal levels anyway.

Can the taxes being collected pay for critical sector's?

If the answer is no then a new way of thinking must emerge.

Nigsrdumb:


Tell them.

Imagine depending on the private sector to fund critical sector's in a country with 200 million.


The best thing this government can do is to build factories in partnership with the private sector.

Factories to gulp up unemployment and make the economy more formal so that more jobs can be created and tax base expanded.

It's a win win situation.


Factories yeah.

It can be done with the current level of taxes Nigerians are paying

Go to Dubai, London , Paris and see properties Nigerian Public Office holders are acquiring

Look at MC Oluomo and tell me he is not feeding fat on taxes that should have repaired roads and build factories

Look at Atiku and tell me He would be this great If he had never been NPA camptroller General, Tinubu Nko..................thats for another day

So tomorrow Tinubu or Fashola will stand on National TV now and tell me Nigerians pay little taxes and you sef believe

Nigsrdumb:


Informal economies are low output economies.

Build factories, train iya seki selling robo , collect her taxes through her employer.

The entire economy is not working at optimal levels anyway.

Can the taxes being collected pay for critical sector's?

If the answer is no then a new way of thinking must emerge.

Is it the government's place to build factories?
Oh my God this guy is loco

TransAtlanticEx:
Is it the government's place to build factories?
Oh my God this guy is loco

The government has to have an industrial policy that supports the building of factories.

Check China if you are unclear about what I said.


Back to the cheap credit issue, are you connecting the dots yet?

Nigsrdumb:


The government has to have an industrial policy that supports the building of factories.

Check China if you are unclear about what I said.


Back to the cheap credit issue, are you connecting the dots yet?

No,why should credit be cheap when we are battling an inflation and forex problem?
You want turn naira to Venezuela money?

ultron12345:


Is it MTN's duty to pay for your healthcare?
MTN generates about 1.2 trillion annually. 10% of that is 120B. Airtel does about 450B. Assuming glo earns 1 trillion. Together, 10% is about 265B. Much less than the current health budget.

Tax is okay.
Set up a database for all Nigerians and tax them.
7% healthcare tax on all salaries to get something similar to UK's NHS.

Assuming 80M economically active Nigerians earn 30K monthly ON AVERAGE (in reality, the figure is much higher). 7% tax on that would generate over 2 trillion Naira annually for just healthcare. In reality, that figure might go up to 4 trillion.

You don’t live/work in Nigeria. This is already being done in Nigeria through the NHIS. Contributions are deducted from the salaries of Nigerian workers.

But you are right. It would be stupid and insensitive to make MTN fund Nigeria’s health insurance scheme after they have paid taxes, provided well paying jobs to thousands of Nigerians and provided much needed mobile telephone connectivity to Nigerians.

TransAtlanticEx:
No,why should credit be cheap when we are battling an inflation and forex problem?
You want turn naira to Venezuela money?

The credit provides the capital needed to grow industries, the industries in turn create a more formal economy and jobs, which allows for more effective taxation and further funds for development.

The cycle is the same in rich countries.

Poor countries will always work hard to protect the interests of the slave masters currencies at the detriment of their own economy.

Nigsrdumb:


Informal economies are low output economies.

Build factories, train iya seki selling robo , collect her taxes through her employer.

The entire economy is not working at optimal levels anyway.

Can the taxes being collected pay for critical sector's?

If the answer is no then a new way of thinking must emerge.

I'm not too versed in the right economic diction to use but I can tell you that any Nigerian that is adding value into the system is heavily taxed....... Taxes were originally meant for the well being of the whole but only a few just siphon the cash off and keep spreading this mantra that Nigerians dont pay taxes

maishai:


I'm not too versed in the right economic diction to use but I can tell you that any Nigerian that is adding value into the system is heavily taxed....... Taxes were originally meant for the well being of the whole but only a few just siphon the cash off and keep spreading this mantra that Nigerians dont pay taxes

You still don't get it.

I'm not defending the government, just saying which models might work and stressing the importance of formalising the economy.


Let me use a simple example , big net vs small net, which one would catch more fishes?

jedisco:


What I'm pointing out is that every country looks for suitable means to tax citizens. A method used in country A may not be successful in country B.

Case in point is tax paid for bank transfers. Not many countries tax people for that but it has proven to be effective in Nigeria because of our largely informal sector. Also, in some countries, you pay TV tax if you stream or watch live TV, you pay extra tax for non-electric vehicles, you pay sugar tax on fizzy drinks e.t.c. All these are not done in Nigeria but have worked elsewhere.

Like I said, you may not agree with it, but what other suggestions do you have?
How many people in the informal sector pay for NHIS? What is bad if 1-5 naira is deducted out of every 100 naira recharge for health?

Most developed countries tax rate averages between 20-45% of taxable income for most citizens. That is aside VAT paid when purchases are made and added tax in other areas. That comes with its benefits too that we don't get

I believe this summarises my thought, WHAT i may add is that Revenue Generation from taxes in Nigeria is grossly under reported


in fact all forms of revenue Generation in the country is grossly under reported,

Nigsrdumb:


The credit provides the capital needed to grow industries, the industries in turn create a more formal economy and jobs, which allows for more effective taxation and further funds for development.

The cycle is the same in rich countries.

Poor countries will always work hard to protect the interests of the slave masters currencies at the detriment of their own economy.

Its like to understand things is very hard for you.
If you like give 10B naira credit to each company at 5% interest,they still have to import equipment and raw materials right?
This means they need dollars right?
Where will they get the dollars from since reserves are down and at how much?
So giving them plenty naira is not a solution to industrialisation since depreciation will wipe off all of that naira which means they still won't be able to set up that factory as they won't be able to purchase those equipments due to weak naira.
Bros,its like you hard to understand things ooo.

maishai:


I'm not too versed in the right economic diction to use but I can tell you that any Nigerian that is adding value into the system is heavily taxed....... Taxes were originally meant for the well being of the whole but only a few just siphon the cash off and keep spreading this mantra that Nigerians dont pay taxes

They are still operating at the informal sector, can't be compared to Spar or ShopRite. Their taxes are documented, they can even fight for tax credit.

TransAtlanticEx:
Its like to understand things is very hard for you.
If you like give 10B naira credit to each company at 5% interest,they still have to import equipment and raw materials right?
This means they need dollars right?
Where will they get the dollars from since reserves are down and at how much?
So giving them plenty naira is not a solution to industrialisation since depreciation will wipe off all of that naira which means they still won't be able to set up that factory as they won't be able to purchase those equipments due to weak naira.
Bros,its like you hard to understand things ooo.

Read .

https://ged-project.de/globalization/china-industrial-policy/

maishai:


I believe this summarises my thought, WHAT i may add is that Revenue Generation from taxes in Nigeria is grossly under reported


in fact all forms of revenue Generation in the country is grossly under reported,

Arguing for increased taxation in Nigeria can be difficult because the most of the tax collected is not put into use or just simply embezzled making our politicians the highest paid in the world.
All things said, we need to raise funding for critical sectors

TransAtlanticEx:
Cheap credit in a country that don't have enough fx revenues and an import dependent nation abi?
Or you don't know MPC rate is a tool used to mop up liquidity so as to diminish demand for fx and curb inflation abi?
Oshey financial expert...
Dunce.
Like the government will just stand on the mountain and say let there be cheap credit and it happens
Not knowing if you do that,you won't even have enough dollars to meet the demand of the people that will take that cheap credit and want to exchange all that naira for fx.
What a brilliant man

There was a time when foul-language was hardly seen here. You don't have to say silly names to make your points.

Now, actually, cheap credit helps our FX position than expensive ones.

That's why we're pushing near-zero rates currently. Fewer new naira gets created, ultimately, fewer naira becomes available to pursue FX.

T-bills were at 18% in 2017. Zenith Bank made 750bn gross revenue that year.

Since then, they've not been able to even reach 700bn again.

awesomeJ:


There was a time when foul-language was hardly seen here. You don't have to say silly names to make your points.

Now, actually, cheap credit helps our FX position than expensive ones.

That's why we're pushing near-zero rates currently. Fewer new naira gets created, ultimately, fewer naira becomes available to pursue FX.

T-bills were at 18% in 2018. Zenith Bank made 750bn gross revenue that year.

Since then, they've not been able to even reach 700bn again.

I am talking credit you are talking debt market?
What's the correlation?
For the fact that there is so much liquidity out there due to low tb rates,don't you see how weak the naira is?
Does that not tell you mopping up naira is also a means to strengthen the currency without intervention?
Cheap credit helps our fx position in what way?

Lazyyouth4u:

Even the most insane coup plotters in a kangaroo state can never impose such a hopeless decree on companies that create jobs, pay huge taxes to the government and provide much needed services in their country. I am flabbergasted at some comments people make on this forum.

Ahib's suggestion doesn't impact MTN revenue at all.

It's not like government will fix their prices or reduce it. As long as MTN doesn't reduce their prices, theoretically, their revenue doesn't change.

Let's say they charge N10 per minute for calls, Someone making 100 minutes of calls would need N1000 airtime, so he recharges 1000.

Only difference under Ahib's new suggestion to s that the person will now have to recaharge about 1100 to get the same call time.

MTN takes their normal 1000, and push 100 to the FG on his behalf.

When MTN gets the 1100 from him, they won't even record their revenue as 1100 but still 1000 the 100 is a surcharge they have to remit. So the dough stays still at 1000.

TransAtlanticEx:
what now happens to abokis that recharge 50 naira a month?
Don't you see that this sovereign wealth will be benefitting some that don't contribute much at the expense of large contributors?
This is another socialist idea and must be crushed now before it even germinates
Pay your hospital bills or die,very simple.

You'll only be able to draw proportionately to your contribution.

Perhaps the advantages will be:

1. Ease of collection.

2. People can live with 10% taken off their recaharge, so it'll be good that it's going into a pool for them.

TransAtlanticEx:
No.
So long as the people know there is a sovereign wealth for health and start seeing government structures that came from the proceeds of this trustfund and some people getting healthcare for free while others don't,they would want to benefit whether they contribute or not and if you deny them access,they will cry foul and start spinning conspiracy theories and probably disturb communal peace and spark violence.
Why create this scenario in the first place when you can simply tell them to pay their bills or die?

I think he mentioned BVN and thumbprint verification, the essence of those should be for determining how much you've contributed, thereby dictating how much can be drawn towards your healthcare cost.
the folk who thinks he's been smart by recaharging sparingly would have to augment greatly with cash at the point of care giving

TransAtlanticEx:
I am talking credit you are talking debt market?
What's the correlation?
For the fact that there is so much liquidity out there due to low tb rates,don't you see how weak the naira is?
Does that not tell you mopping up naira is also a means to strengthen the currency without intervention?
Cheap credit helps our fx position in what way?

Liquidity ..


That's because the economy is not functioning at optimal levels.

Let's take the housing sector for example, we all know there's a deficit.

The contractor's are up to their necks in debt's, and that sector is slowing down, whilst property prices are going up.


Let's inject cheap credit and see how the narrative changes.


The construction companies can build faster at cheaper rates, the middle income earner doesn't have to pay in full which means people can buy more house's.

More jobs, more development, and ideally more taxes.

We have literally accidentally solved a multitude of issues by injecting a new variable.

Oga think.

Lazyyouth4u:

In what sane country do governments mandate citizens to make contributions to a healthcare fund (or any other public service) at the point of purchasing goods or services? Are people not already paying taxes? Are people not making contributions through the National Health Insurance Scheme? People must think before making such impractical comments. It’s ridiculous that anyone can even think like that in 2020!

The deduction is not a tax. it's a contribution that you own.

less than 20% of the adult population does NHIS. But more than 80% recaharge airtime on their phones.