Witnesses of the Trinity

"Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, here am I; send me" (Isaiah 6:8.)

In this passage we see, perhaps, a hint of the triune nature of the Godhead.  It is as if God the Father is inquiring of God the Son and God the Spirit as to whom other than one of them would be an effective representative for them.  Isaiah, in his freshly forgiven and purified state (vv. 6-7), offers to accept the commission and represent the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. A similar call is issued to each of us today.

Elsewhere in Scripture we are told more plainly of the fullness of our call to represent God the Father: "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour" (Isaiah 43:10-11).

Likewise, God the Son called us to be "witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:8.).

Conversely, we are not called to be witnesses of the Holy Spirit; rather, we are to be co-witnesses with Him of Jesus Christ.  "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning" (John 15:26-27).  "When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you" (16:13-14).

What a privilege! What a message! What a Partner! JDM

For more . . . .

Hmmm! Liked this.
am kinda outta MB; reminded me of a draft: "plurality within the godhead"
a lot of 'christians' shy away from such discussions, whats worst- the trinity is a bible based DOCTRINE not a roman catholic tradition based doctrine or a peripheral christian debate.
Again, good job.

Except the "Trinity" is a human concocted philosophical idol, not really a "god", just an ideated distortion of God Almighty, hence powerless and of limited future.

====

Now Let's examine the danger and mental pathology of such a belief.

The worst problem with the "trinity" is that it will get a person destroyed because it breaks the first commandment of BOTH covenants. (Thereby it breaks all the commandments, it is a deadly abomination)

It is evil danger!

How?

Well God Almighty, is God Almighty Jehovah.

PERIOD, AND THERE ARE NO OTHERS IN THAT DIMENSION OF ETERNITY, POWER, WISDOM AND RIGHTFUL SOVEREIGN POSITION.

====

Even Jesus Christ, as great as he is, is NOT equal to God the Almighty, King of Eternity, AND NEVER SHALL HE BE, AND HE IS FINE WITH THAT, IN FACT JESUS WORSHIPS JEHOVAH, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

Jesus gave blood sacrifice TO Jehovah, and NOT the other way around. Jesus is completely subjected to God's Almighty authority, period.

===


But what does the "trinity" teach?

1. No, no no, in fact two other beings are equal to the Almighty Father. RED FLAG!

2. No no no, Jesus grasps the opportunity to worship himself, (in fact to the churches, Jesus is greater than God, they don't recognize the Father Jehovah's superiority, or name, to them, God is named trinity.) RED FLAG!!

===

So what do we have here? Hmmmm

We have a being who claims equality with God, in fact superiority over God.

Now who is like that, acting like God himself?

Satan.


The "Jesus" of the "Trinity" is not Jesus Christ at all, no, it is a counterfeit known as Satan, attempting to pass himself off as greater than and equal to God Almighty, and to make matters worse, he labels himself "Christ", and to make matters worse, he has the churches set up this Satan "Christ" as the "golden calf" of their downfall, he pushes that lie worldwide through the churches and hybrid renegade counterfeits to idolize their false notion of the son, whereby this philosophy itself has become greater than God, an idol in the brain and heart of this house of error, Christendom, from Papal injection of this lie into the bible by twisting it upon a handful of scriptures.

That is why the trinity, is death, it has NO future. It will meet with Almighty fire very soon.

First off there are truths and lies.

The truth affects a person, as do lies, and that is why Satan is father of lies, it messes people up in their heads, which leads to behaviors which are messed up as well.

So "apostates" are basically hybrids of Christendom metaphysics, this and that, and whatever personal ideas they want to throw in.

Now if in fact their are demon viral thoughts in a teaching, such as Jesus being greater than God Almighty, and Jesus worshiping himself, and the sadism of the eternal torture fest of hell-fire, all mixed together with the grandeur of the "immortal soul", YOU WILL HAVE MENTAL PROBLEMS, these are not normal thoughts as beliefs and truths purposed by God Almighty, or things Jesus entertained mentally.

Now not mental problems as far as Satan is concerned, but God will look at such a warped mind and know, this person, like the "god" he worships, will also worship himself, this person's will will be to seat self-appointed in heaven as a delusion of grandeur (and on earth if possible), and this person will take pleasure in the torture of his enemies, because these people have accepted that God is like that, so OF COURSE they will attempt to emulate the same beliefs as their so-called god, and the same behaviors that their so-called god takes part in.


===

How does that not make sense?

So to Christendom, delusions of self-serving grandeur and grasped glory self-appointed, worship of the self ego, and sadistic thinking are NOT mental diseases, to them these are pre-requisites to worship their god who practices such things, these are highly desired mind warpings, but to them, these are virtues.

Now to what god is sadism a virtue?

To what god is self-worship a virtue?

That would be Satan, the mentally diseased god self-appointed insane demon.

====

So maybe not only Apostates but all of Christendom is to various degrees culturing mental viruses from demons, and that must have an affect on their brain, and that form of 666 is marked within recognizable to the angels of God when they look for these diseases to eradicate them, and that is why Satan has engineered sinful and warped neurological structures by the actions of these demon viral teachings, over years of mediation on the sick principles which terminally infect the churches, and the hybrid's belief system and teachings.

===

Does that make sense?

Yes, it is very logical why Christendom cannot be entrusted, something is wrong in their heads, and that something is related to these core beliefs, and that is why no sin is off limits to them in the times of desperation, test, and the opportunity to "get away with it".

One cannot really turn their back on these people, and yes, in all fairness, some are worse than others, but the core system leads to warped lie based thinking, thinking that leads to self-entitled predatory justifications, thinking that is 666 in the making, thinking that resulted in Christendom being rejected by God as unrepentant sinners who enjoy erred beliefs and practices inspired by that form of error and inner evil, disguised to them and defended by them as virtue and morals.

So to me, that's nuts of a truly strange sort.

===
Greek Philosophy and the Trinity
http://www.bibleanswerstand.org/philosophy.htm

The Trinity Doctrine Is Pagan
http://www.jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/catholic/trinity.html

The Nicene Creed and Truth about the Trinity
http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/trinity.htm



Plato The Kabbalist
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Plato_Kabbalist.htm
 
How Is the Trinity Explained?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_02.htm

How Did the Trinity Doctrine Develop?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_04.htm

Is It Clearly a Bible Teaching?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_03.htm

WHO IS “the Only True God”?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20050422/article_02.htm

@watchtowery
am KJV Bible based. Please review NL Forums for JW versus Christian threads to avoid repeatation, I WAS into watchtowerism before, Again, please review and keep the rules- on "thread killing".

Sitting at the Right Hand of God

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Psalm 110:1).

The 110th Psalm is one of the most significant of the so-called Messianic Psalms, prophesying of Christ a thousand years before He came. Its very first verse should completely settle the question as to whether or not the Old Testament teaches that there is only one person in the Godhead, since it recounts an actual conversation between at least two Persons of the Godhead. This first verse is quoted, in whole or in part, at least five times in the New Testament and was even used by Christ Himself (Matthew 22:41-46) to prove His own deity.

Two of the Hebrew names for God are used in this verse: "Jehovah said unto Adonai. . . ." The name Jehovah is used again in Psalm 110:2-4, and Adonai in verse 5. God, in the person of Adonai, has gone to earth on a divine mission to save His people, but has been repudiated by His enemies on earth. Accordingly, God, in the person of Jehovah, invites Him back to heaven for a time, where He will be at His right hand until it is time for Him to return to earth to rule, striking through all opposing "kings in the day of his wrath" (v. 5).

In this coming "day of thy power" (v. 3), "thy people shall be willing." The word here is actually the word for "free will offerings." They will be as priests offering their own lives to Him as freewill offerings when they finally recognise Him as their Messiah/King and eternal High Priest (v. 4).

Now, although this prophecy applies specifically to the Second Coming and the future conversion of Israel, there is a beautiful secondary application used in Scripture for His people right now. "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service" (Romans 12:1). "Seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Colossians 3:1). HMM

Op
God was (and is still) one during the time of Adam , Noah, Abraham Moses, and Muhammad ( Peace and blessings of God be on all his prophets) then when did God became part of a Trinity.

Moreover even the bible quoted Jesus as saying that the most important commandment is: Hear oh Israel the Lord our God the Lord is One -mark 12:29

Thus, the central teachings of all prophets of God from Adam to Muhammad is beleif in ONE GOD i.e Islam.

If there was anything like trinity how come Abraham, David, moses etc did not mention it during their time. Or are you sugesting that God who has been one all along suddenly become part of a so called trinity during the time of Jesus? Surely you cant beleive that

One God

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD." (Deuteronomy 6:4)

This great verse has been recited countless times by Israelites down through the centuries, setting forth their distinctive belief in one great Creator God.  The Jews had retained their original belief in creation, handed down from Noah, while the other nations had all allowed their original monotheistic creationism to degenerate into a wide variety of religions, all basically equivalent to the polytheistic evolutionism of the early Sumerians at Babel.

But along with its strong assertion of monotheism, there is also a very real suggestion that this declaration, with its thrice-named subject, is also setting forth the Triune God.  The name, "Lord," of course, is Yahweh, or Jehovah, the self-existing One who reveals Himself, while "God" is Elohim, the powerful Creator/Ruler.  "Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah" is the proclamation.  A number of respected Jewish commentators have acknowledged that the verse spoke of a "unified oneness," rather than an "absolute oneness."  The revered book called the Zohar, for example, even said that the first mention was of the Father; the second one the Messiah; and the third, the Holy Spirit.

The key word "one" (Hebrew, achad) is often used to denote unity in diversity.  For example, when Eve was united to Adam in marriage, they were said to be "one flesh" (Genesis 2:24).  Similarly, on the third day of creation, the waters were "gathered together unto one place," yet this gathering together was called "Seas" (i.e., more than one sea; Genesis 1:9-10).

Thus, Israel's great declaration should really be understood as saying in effect: "The eternally omnipresent Father, also Creator and Sustainer of all things, is our unified self-revealing Lord." HMM

For more . . . .

So olaadegbu please answer the following question : Do you beleive God is one or three?

abubello:

So olaadegbu please answer the following question : Do you beleive God is one or three?

God is One just as 1 x 1 x 1 = 1

From your diagram you yourself claim the three are not the same yet you claim they are still one! Do you honestly think you are making sense here?

Moreover, are all the earlier prophets aware of the concept of trinity or did the concept start with Jesus, in other words are you saying that God almighty has been three in one all along or he was one and suddenly become three during the time of Jesus?

Can you tell us what Abraham , David, Moses etc said about Trinity or they were not aware othe concept?

abubello:

From your diagram you yourself claim the three are not the same yet you claim they are still one! Do you honestly think you are making sense here?

The Trinity does not entail three gods in one God, or three persons in one person.  Such claims would be nonsensical.  There is nothing contradictory, however, in affirming three persons in one God (or three whos in one what).

abubello:

Moreover, are all the earlier prophets aware of the concept of trinity or did the concept start with Jesus, in other words are you saying that God almighty has been three in one all along or he was one and suddenly become three during the time of Jesus?

There have been three Persons in one Godhead for all eternity.

abubello:

Can you tell us what Abraham , David, Moses etc said about Trinity or they were not aware othe concept?

Genesis chapter 1 begins with "In the beginning God"  the word God there means Elohim, (Father, Word and the Holy Spirit), the great Ones.  Abraham saw and spoke with the ephipany of Jesus when he interceded on behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah.  David prophesied, "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool" See what a former muslim said about this verse in the link below:

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool. -- Psalm 110:1

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/psalm110_1.htm

The Trinity in the Old Testament

"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."(Isaiah 48:16)

It is significant that biblical Christianity is the only Trinitarian religion--and therefore the only true religion--in the world. Most religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, etc.) are pantheistic and humanistic, denying the existence of an omnipotent God who created the space/time cosmos. There are two other major religions, however, that are monotheistic, believing in the God of creation and in the creation record in Genesis--Judaism and Islam.

However, these two fail to understand that the Creator must also be the Redeemer, and therefore they also become humanistic, believing that man must achieve salvation by his own efforts. Further, they also fail to acknowledge that God's objective work of redemption must be made subjective in each person by the indwelling personal presence of the omnipresent Creator/Redeemer.

All this is beautifully revealed in the New Testament in the doctrine of the triune God--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--one God in three Persons, incomprehensible to human understanding, perhaps, yet very real (see John 15:26; etc.).

This wonderful revelation of the Godhead was foreshadowed in the very beginning--the Father creating; the Spirit moving; the Son speaking (Genesis 1:1-3). In our text above, again it is the Son (as the living Word of God) prophesying about His coming mission of redemption, saying that "the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

Then, when He had finished His work and could return to the Father, He promised the coming of "the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name," and that He would "abide with you for ever" (John 14:26, 16). HMM

For more . . . .

The Watchful Christian
March 25, 2012

"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. . . . And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." (Mark 13:32-33, 37)

Every believer, in all places and times, has been commanded by Christ Himself to watch for His return. Since we cannot know the day nor the hour, we are to be watchful always. There are at least eight references in the New Testament commanding us to watch for His coming.

Many people have tried to calculate the date of Christ's coming. But Jesus said, "In such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 24:44). If anyone "thinks" he has figured out the time, we can be sure that calculation is wrong! If even the Lord Jesus Himself, within the self-limiting confines of His humanity, did not know the time of His return, it is unscriptural and presumptuous for any of us to think we can determine it.

In fact, the very reason for its uncertainty is to stimulate watchfulness on the part of the believer. When a believer starts to "say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming" (Luke 12:45), there arises a real danger that he will fall into sinful habits.

The daily attitude of "looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" is a real incentive for one to "live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world" (Titus 2:13, 12). "When he shall appear, we shall be like him," John promises, "And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (1 John 3:2-3). We should continually "abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming" - 1 John 2:28. HMM

For more . . . .

OLAADEGBU:

God is One just as 1 x 1 x 1 = 1

VERY LOGICAL. now i see the similarity between pharisees, JW's and muslims.

Docjay487: VERY LOGICAL. now i see the similarity between pharisees, JW's and muslims.

There are other logical analogies that describe the Holy Trinity. A triangle has 3 straight lines or corners and yet remains one figure (Triangle). This simple illustration will continue to remain a mystery to adherants of false religions.

Good work Ola.

This is a quote of how the trinity was explained by C.S. Lewis.

We know that Atheists find it difficult to understand the supernatural while the Muslims amongst other religious adherents find it difficult to comprehend the triune nature of God. God is not totally comprehensible otherwise He will cease to be God. I will be using a helpful analogy by C.S. Lewis a former atheist who had come to the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, in his book called Mere Christianity.

"You know that in space you can move in three ways – to left or right, backwards or forwards, up or down. Every direction is either one of these three or a compromise between them. They are called the three Dimensions. Now notice this. If you are using only one dimension, you could draw only a straight line. If you are using two, you could draw a figure: say, a square. And a square is made up of four straight lines. Now a step further. If you have three dimensions, you can then build what we call a solid body: say, a cube – a thing like a dice or a lump of sugar. And a cube is made up of six squares.

Do you see the point? A world of one dimension would be a straight line. In a two dimensional world, you still get straight lines, but many lines make one figure. In a three dimensional world, you still get figures but many figures make one solid body. In other words, as you advance to more real and more complicated levels, you do not leave behind you the things you found on the simpler levels: you still have them, but combined in new ways - in ways you could not imagine if you knew only the simpler levels.

Now the Christian account of God involves just the same principle. The human level is a simple level and rather empty level. On the human level one person is one being, and any two persons are two separate beings – just as, in two dimensions (say on a flat sheet of paper) one square is one figure, and any two squares are two separate figures. On the Divine level you still find personalities; but up there you find them combined in new ways which we, who do not live on that level, cannot imagine. In God’s dimension, so to speak, you find a being who is three Persons while remaining one Being, just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube. Of course we cannot fully conceive a Being like that: just as, if we were so made that we perceived only two dimensions in space we could never properly imagine a cube. But we can get a sort of faint notion of it. And when we do, we are then, for the first time in our lives, getting some positive idea, however faint, of something super-personal – something more than a person. It is something we could never have guessed, and yet, once we have been told, one almost feels one ought to have been able to guess it because it fits in so well with all the things we know already.

You may ask, ‘If we cannot imagine a three-personal Being, what is the good of talking about Him. The thing that matters is being actually drawn into that three-personal life, and that may begin any time – tonight, if you like"

In seeking to understand the Trinity we need to recognise three limiting factors. First, the human language is limited such that it is incapable of describing the aroma of coffee. Secondly, the limitation of our own understanding and intellects. John Eddison in his book talking to children said 'Our little intellectual systems find themselves groaning under the strain of trying to accommodate God'. Therefore, in an attempt to describe the Trinity we have to resort to the use of paradox. A paradox as defined by the Concise Oxford Dictionary is a seemingly absurd though perhaps actually well founded statement. And thirdly, we have to recognise the limits of our finite world and our finite minds.

Docjay487:

Good work Ola.

May God richly bless you for appreciating the truth.

OLAADEGBU:

God is One just as 1 x 1 x 1 = 1

QED.

OLAADEGBU:


This is a quote of how the trinity was explained by C.S. Lewis.

We know that Atheists find it difficult to understand the supernatural while the Muslims amongst other religious adherents find it difficult to comprehend the triune nature of God. God is not totally comprehensible otherwise He will cease to be God. I will be using a helpful analogy by C.S. Lewis a former atheist who had come to the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, in his book called Mere Christianity.

"You know that in space you can move in three ways – to left or right, backwards or forwards, up or down. Every direction is either one of these three or a compromise between them. They are called the three Dimensions. Now notice this. If you are using only one dimension, you could draw only a straight line. If you are using two, you could draw a figure: say, a square. And a square is made up of four straight lines. Now a step further. If you have three dimensions, you can then build what we call a solid body: say, a cube – a thing like a dice or a lump of sugar. And a cube is made up of six squares.

Do you see the point? A world of one dimension would be a straight line. In a two dimensional world, you still get straight lines, but many lines make one figure. In a three dimensional world, you still get figures but many figures make one solid body. In other words, as you advance to more real and more complicated levels, you do not leave behind you the things you found on the simpler levels: you still have them, but combined in new ways - in ways you could not imagine if you knew only the simpler levels.

Now the Christian account of God involves just the same principle. The human level is a simple level and rather empty level. On the human level one person is one being, and any two persons are two separate beings – just as, in two dimensions (say on a flat sheet of paper) one square is one figure, and any two squares are two separate figures. On the Divine level you still find personalities; but up there you find them combined in new ways which we, who do not live on that level, cannot imagine. In God’s dimension, so to speak, you find a being who is three Persons while remaining one Being, just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube. Of course we cannot fully conceive a Being like that: just as, if we were so made that we perceived only two dimensions in space we could never properly imagine a cube. But we can get a sort of faint notion of it. And when we do, we are then, for the first time in our lives, getting some positive idea, however faint, of something super-personal – something more than a person. It is something we could never have guessed, and yet, once we have been told, one almost feels one ought to have been able to guess it because it fits in so well with all the things we know already.

You may ask, ‘If we cannot imagine a three-personal Being, what is the good of talking about Him. The thing that matters is being actually drawn into that three-personal life, and that may begin any time – tonight, if you like"

In seeking to understand the Trinity we need to recognise three limiting factors. First, the human language is limited such that it is incapable of describing the aroma of coffee. Secondly, the limitation of our own understanding and intellects. John Eddison in his book talking to children said 'Our little intellectual systems find themselves groaning under the strain of trying to accommodate God'. Therefore, in an attempt to describe the Trinity we have to resort to the use of paradox. A paradox as defined by the Concise Oxford Dictionary is a seemingly absurd though perhaps actually well founded statement. And thirdly, we have to recognise the limits of our finite world and our finite minds.

For those seeking to understand the Godhead.

abubello:
From your diagram you yourself claim the three are not the same yet you claim they are still one! Do you honestly think you are making sense here?

Moreover, are all the earlier prophets aware of the concept of trinity or did the concept start with Jesus, in other words are you saying that God almighty has been three in one all along or he was one and suddenly become three during the time of Jesus?

Can you tell us what Abraham , David, Moses etc said about Trinity or they were not aware othe concept?

God created us, we did not create him...and therefore its very difficult to fully tell what he(our creator) is and what he is not
Right from everlasting, the concept of the trinity has been settled....this link might answer your questions. www.nairaland.com/1939388/man-trinity-god-trinity-created

OLAADEGBU:


There are other logical analogies that describe the Holy Trinity. A triangle has 3 straight lines or corners and yet remains one figure (Triangle). This simple illustration will continue to remain a mystery to adherants of false religions.

Any other analogies of the trinity?