NRI PRIEST:

Nri influence on Ngwa might be small but that isnt to say Ngwa wasnt influenced by Nri.

the small influence you are talking about is that of colonia era

odumchi: @ Ify

Nri was the first Igbo group to adopt the four day calendar. Nri mythology has it that when the founder of Nri went on a journey to discover the mystery of time, he was greeted by four spirits named "Eke, Orie, Afor, and Nkwo" and upon returning to Nri, he used their to form a calendar.

This calendar system, along with many other Nri-made ideas (such as the ozo/nze title), spread to other parts of Igboland during Nri's golden age along with Nri priests and pioneers. It's also noteworthy to say that the further you go south from the Nri-Awka region the less you see these characteristics of "Nri presence".

Well, the general idea is that any community that uses Eke, Orie, Afor, and Nkwo as market days was in some way or anther influenced by Nri. With this in mind, there are some places that don't use this calendar or ozo/nze for that matter.

Odumchi it looks like you dont know about another vasion of this four market days story,among the people of aro chukwu,arondizuogu probable the poeple also aro ngwa etc, the belive that the four market days originated through what the call IKE IJ which the celebrite during the time for new yam festival.

ChinenyeN: Snake [something something] to give birth to something long.
My Guess: Snake cannot help but give birth to something that will also be long.


Red Hat wearing in Ngwa is post-colonial, and less than 1% of Ngwa men actually wear it.

How many times are we going to tell Nri people that their influnce did not reach ngwa land.

Dear friends.
I put your consideration two other old maps of Africa.
I await your comments.

Gulf of Benin

ChinenyeN, did people from Ngwa bear names like okoli,okorie or names that has nkwo,oye(orie),afor and eke root or suffix on them ? And do you have markets that were named after eke,oye,afor and nkwo which were originally Nri deities and were used to set up markets in the precolonial Igboland ?? I want you to think very well before you answer those questions because I already got an elaborate feedback from an Ngwa man! I want to see how you can deny Ngwa wasnt influenced by Nri!

Edoma ala, since you are so sure Ngwa wasnt influenced by Nri I want you to join ChininyeN in answering my question!
Did I hear you say Aro has their own version of eke,oye,afor and nkwo ? Is it the Aro which is younger than Onicha or are you talking about some other Aro I dont know ?? I pray you do not provoke me !! ever wonder what we mean when we say "NRI ENWELANA" ?

^If he provokes the Nri high prince na 2 things he go bring for total cleansing;

Ada ara ya kwu oto.
Skunk kara aka.

LOL

Seriously,I'm on the lookout for Chi's answers especially in regards the eke etc names issue.

WHY ARE MY POST BEING DELETED ? ??
I SENT TWO POST IN BUT I COULDNT FIND THEM!!
WHOEVER TOOK MY POST DOWN NEED TO PUT IT THE PHUCK BACK !!

Oops!

Oops!

ifyalways: ^If he provokes the Nri high prince na 2 things he go bring for total cleansing;

Ada ara ya kwu oto.
Skunk kara aka.

LOL

Seriously,I'm on the lookout for Chi's answers especially in regards the eke etc names issue.

Obulu na ikpota "ada ara ya kwu oto" nga ami di ara before ngoo ya na Alusi. .lol

Oops!

Edoma ala:
Odumchi it looks like you dont know about another vasion of this four market days story,among the people of aro chukwu,arondizuogu probable the poeple also aro ngwa etc, the belive that the four market days originated through what the call IKE IJ which the celebrite during the time for new yam festival. 

I didn't say that that was the only version. I was just repeating that of Nri.

And what you're referring to is Ikeji. Ikeji is the Aro new yam festival that was developed around the four market days. The Aro version of the market days are Eke, Nkwo, Orie, and Avo. They are an adaptation of the original Nri-Awka market days (Eke, Oye, Afor/Awho, Nkwo) and were introduced by the Eze Agwu and Okennachi clans (who carried it over from the Igbo heartland). Nowadays  all other Aro communities, except for Arochukwu, have diverted from it.

The Ikeji festival itself lasts for two weeks. The most important days are: Eke Odu, Nkwo Ekpe, Avo Osu, and Orie Egbugbu.

Ptolomeus: Dear friends.
I put your consideration two other old maps of Africa.
I await your comments.

This is interesting. It looks Portuguese. What century do you think it could have been? I'm guessing it's not too early since it shows the interior in detail.

NRI PRIEST: Edoma ala, since you are so sure Ngwa wasnt influenced by Nri I want you to join ChininyeN in answering my question!
Did I hear you say Aro has their own version of eke,oye,afor and nkwo ? Is it the Aro which is younger than Onicha or are you talking about some other Aro I dont know ?? I pray you do not provoke me !! ever wonder what we mean when we say "NRI ENWELANA" ?

I remember him saying that the Ngwa had an earlier calendar which was replaced by the Nri one. Personally, I don't think the Aro or the Ngwa experienced Nri influence directly. I think that that whatever pieces of Nri influence that lies in Ngwaland or among the Aro arrived there indirectly.

@All

So this is the battle for the readjustment of the Nri influence line? We shall see .

Edoma ala: How many times are we going to tell Nri people that their influnce did not reach ngwa land.

Nnaa, m maala we? It's amazing sef. The very same Ngwa, which these Nri had never encountered until the 20th century, are the people they are now claiming were under their influence. Ughalama l'ezi.

Nri Priest: ChinenyeN, did people from Ngwa bear names like okoli,okorie or names that has nkwo,oye(orie),afor and eke root or suffix on them ?

Ngwa do not bear Okonkwo, Okorie, Okafo, Okeke, neither do we name our females Mgbokwo, Mgborie, Mgbafo, Mgbeke. We don't use "Oko" or "Mgbo" prefixes, though that's not to say that it can't happen. It's just not our culture. Instead, Wa/Nwa is the prefix used in Ngwa for "market day" names. To be more specific, the names associated with Nkwo and Ekhe.

Nri Priest: And do you have markets that were named after eke,oye,afor and nkwo which were originally Nri deities and were used to set up markets in the precolonial Igboland ??

In Ngwa, our markets and the "market days" (we'll now call them days of the week) are actually not related. A lot of our market centers are in fact not named after the days of the week. Some are though, but those markets are sometimes recollected as having being established as recent as the 19th/20th century.

Nri Priest: I already got an elaborate feedback from an Ngwa man!

Alright. Kindly share with us what your Ngwa informant shared with you.

Ok,Ngwa do not use "okos" in their naming,but do they bear names with eke,oye,afor,nkwo market days as suffixs or preffixs in their names ? If feel like you are trying so hard at to NOT see the obvious influence of Nri hegemony, than to do more study on it and be more convinced. Relatively,in my town we have nwankwos,nwekes,nwoyes too,not every body bears "okos". You need to calm down nwanne,inugo ? We are all Igbos, at the end of the day na we go still gat your back. Make i go consult the oracles!

Obvious influence would be Ngwa and Nri acknowledging interactions. No such interactions took place. So, there is no "obvious influence". You're trying too hard to force the idea of "Nri hegemony", and I'm not sure you understand how insulting your statements are to many people.

There is no truth behind any of your statements, only conjecture, because you continue to make these statements, in spite of the complete lack of any acknowledged history between Ngwa and Nri. You are in no position to open your mouth. Yet, you still continue to stand here trying to tell us Ngwa about our own culture and traditions.

That is the kind of crap that Ofo_Igbo tried to pull some time ago, here on NL. He tried to claim Ozo, Nze, Ofo, Igu Aro, etc. as part of Ngwa culture. I proceeded to correct his foolishness, promptly.

My friend, history is not unilateral. Nri Influence never extended to Ngwa.

You want to talk about market days, then tell me how come we apparently had knowledge of Nkwo, Ekhe, Orie and Afo, before we even heard of you people.

You want to talk about calendar, then tell me how come we have no traditions which acknowledge Igu Aro, but instead have Ekpe.

You want to talk about spirituality, then tell me how come we don't pass through Nri "street of the gods" after death, but instead meet Arim.

You want to talk about societal structure, then tell me how come we don't have Ozo-ship, Nze, red cap, etc.

You want to talk about culture, then tell me how come Ikenga cult is non-existent in Ngwa.

You want to talk about Nri influence, then point to the Ngwa and/or Nri traditions that acknowledge Ngwa/Nri interactions. Don't just vomit conjecture and expect people to swallow that vile.

ChinenyeM,do Ngwas have any(special) names for the market days?If yes,can you please name them.

Unu wetuo olu na obi,Igbo u otu.

I didnt believe the Nri (mburuchis) traveled down to Ngwa land in the precolonial era to set up some of these markets,as you rightly admitted that indeed Ngwa do have ekhe,orie,afor na nkwor market days and names of the week. influence doest have to be direct. yes,the interactions might be very minimal but its obvious ! By the way try and answer Ify's question.

NRI PRIEST: I didnt believe the Nri (mburuchis) traveled down to Ngwa land in the precolonial era to set up some of these markets

No, not some of. Mburuchis did not set up any markets.

NRI PRIEST: influence doest have to be direct. yes,the interactions might be very minimal but its obvious!

I am Ngwa, familiar with my people's culture and history. You are Nri, ignorant of anything south of your own border. Yet, between my familiarity and your ignorance, it is apparently you who is the expert on Ngwa/Nri interactions? Alright, let's play this game then. Expert, indulge me. What are these "obvious interactions" of which you speak? I want you to name them all, since apparently I, in all my familiarity, remain unable to spot them myself (note: we've been through this routine before).

ifyalways: ChinenyeM,do Ngwas have any(special) names for the market days?If yes,can you please name them.

Nkwo, Ekhe, Orie, Afo, are the names of the days of the week. Market days are the days of the week with -ukwuu/-ta suffixes (i.e. Ekheta, Orieukwuu).

Nri hegemony never included Ngwa. Nri sphere of influence never ever extended to Ngwa.
Odumchi are you going to correct those maps anytime soon?

odumchi:

This is interesting. It looks Portuguese. What century do you think it could have been? I'm guessing it's not too early since it shows the interior in detail.

Dear friend:
These maps are published in the book "Orishas" Pierre "Fatumbi" Verger, Ed Carrúpio. Indeed, it is in Portuguese. The maps are not dated, I understand that these maps point to indicate the location of the various Yoruba kingdoms and nearby areas, to facilitate the explanation of the rest of the book. This is undoubtedly the pre-colonial, so I thought it might be an important contribution for all. Verger (París 1902, Brazil 1996), besides having made ​​the traditional religion was an important French anthropologist who lived several years in Africa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Edouard_Leopold_Verger

I remain at your disposal.
My fraternal greetings,

You had knowledge of the Nri week days but you dont know where it originated from nor how it was formed !! Nri influence was very wide in Igboland and some people dont know how some traditions which they have adopted developed! I am not here to force anything on anybody but we must give respect to whom it belongs to. ChinenyeN,the Igbo week days that Ngwa use today where do they originated from ? You adopted something significant as days of the week from somebody yet you said they dont have influence on you ! You name your children partly with the names of the days of the week which originated from Nri yet you said NO influnce! I think you should bear in mind that the "mburuchis" did not travel every part of Igbo land; A lot of time they will travel so far to set-up shrines and ordain new priests who will in turn carry the rituals missionary along. My point is that Nri mburuchis may not be the one that set-up your markets in Ngwa but somehow they learnt the practice from their neighbors who followed Nri traditions. I know you will never accept because of what it will do to your little ego.

NRI PRIEST: My point is that Nri mburuchis may not be the one that set-up your markets in Ngwa but somehow they learnt the practice from their neighbors who followed Nri traditions.

Now we're making headway. This is a good step away from the "Nri influence extended to Ngwa"-type of statements. I can agree with this kind of comment, because it fundamentally rings an element of truth, in light of the few Nri practices that were imported into Ngwa during colonial and post-colonial eras.

ChinenyeM,the market days names you listed are pretty much same with the generally accpeted one ie eke,orie and i was expecting something totally different.

How did you guys come about your market days/names ?
Thank you.

ifyalways: How did you guys come about your market days/names ?
Thank you.

I don't know the exact tradition, but it has to do with the nkwo, ekhe, orie and afo having being fixed alongside creation. I think it is important to note that in Ngwa, a distinction exists between "days of the week" and "market days". One (Ngwa) proverb says that the days of the week are four, but trade made them eight. According to our traditions, nkwo, ekhe, orie and afo were in place long before the advent of trade/markets, and we have known about them for as long as we can remember. Looking back at ancient times, before we had trade/markets and before our markets developed "market day" names, it was actually our cultural centers that were originally named after nkwo, ekhe, orie and afo. In fact, in Okpuala Ngwa, the ancestral settlement of Ngwa people, there is an ancient place that is said to be the home of our primordial ancestors. That place is remembered in our traditions as Ekhelafo*. Ekhelafo is our most ancient cultural center, and the original ancestral settlement of Ngwa people. Contrastingly, the original central market, which later developed in that ancestral settlement, was called Idika Okpu, and to the best of my knowledge, it still stands. Idika Okpu has also never had a "market day" name.

*Ekhelafo (Ekelafor)

Chinenye, I'll update the Nri influence line as soon as possible.

Ptolomeus:
Dear friend:
These maps are published in the book "Orishas" Pierre "Fatumbi" Verger, Ed Carrúpio. Indeed, it is in Portuguese. The maps are not dated, I understand that these maps point to indicate the location of the various Yoruba kingdoms and nearby areas, to facilitate the explanation of the rest of the book. This is undoubtedly the pre-colonial, so I thought it might be an important contribution for all. Verger (París 1902, Brazil 1996), besides having made ​​the traditional religion was an important French anthropologist who lived several years in Africa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Edouard_Leopold_Verger

I remain at your disposal.
My fraternal greetings,

Thanks, they truly are interesting and inciteful. I'll take a look at them.

---

NRI PRIEST: You had knowledge of the Nri week days but you dont know where it originated from nor how it was formed !! Nri influence was very wide in Igboland and some people dont know how some traditions which they have adopted developed! I am not here to force anything on anybody but we must give respect to whom it belongs to. ChinenyeN,the Igbo week days that Ngwa use today where do they originated from ? [You adopted something significant as days of the week from somebody yet you said they dont have influence on you !] You name your children partly with the names of the days of the week which originated from Nri yet you said NO influnce! I think you should bear in mind that the "mburuchis" did not travel every part of Igbo land; A lot of time they will travel so far to set-up shrines and ordain new priests who will in turn carry the rituals missionary along. My point is that Nri mburuchis may not be the one that set-up your markets in Ngwa but somehow they learnt the practice from their neighbors who followed Nri traditions. I know you will never accept because of what it will do to your little ego.

NRI PRIEST imagin someone who have never step out of his villeage inwhich everything about him and his education was done withing his villeage and he like's the name Alejandro or the method inwhich the name sound and he name his son Alejandro does not mean that his villeage is under or was under the influence of the people of Latin the anwser is [NO] The same goes with ngwa/nri influence.