ndu_chucks: I repeat, you are a fool and very ignorant. Gas used by power plants are not piped to the plants from the source of the gas. The gas companies for the most part have huge storage facilities from where the gas is piped (short distance) to end users. We are talking about a similar process where the smaller storage facility is owned by the company in question. The gas will then be piped to the plant from the said tanks.

Once again, your attempt to change the topic has failed woefully. Let me remind you of the main issues raised in this thread - I welcome your positive contribution, and thanks in advance:

Chei! What an entertaining day today is turning out to be! You ask people for proof and they start going orange with madness.
Sir, where are your examples of any power plants that are run from gas storage tanks?


NONE?

Funny stuff!

Beaf:

Chei! What an entertaining day today is turning out to be! You ask people for proof and they start going orange with madness.
Sir, where are your examples of any power plants that are run from gas storage tanks?


NONE?

Funny stuff!

Your lame attempt at shifting focus off GEJ regarding the issues being discussed here has failed woefully, even your gullible followers can see that. I will post the issues once again in case you are as blind as a bat and didn't see it the last time. What are your thoughts on the issues? You may have your typical last word - your have been exposed once again, I know you don't like being humiliated so I will not embarrass you any further. I do not expect you to comment on the issues below, so breathe easily . dolo

We have a large cotton belt but import textiles from China (thus keeping their subsidized factories open and jobs in china).


We are the world's number one producer of cassava but import cassava starch from Europe.

We have a huge tomato belt in Kadawa, Jigawa and Chad Basin but are the world's largest importer of tomato paste - from China and Italy.


We can produce rice but we import rice from Thailand and India-most of it from grain reserves that have been in stock for over 5 years.

What are GEJ's plans to address these issues? Inquiring minds wanna know.

ekt_bear:
Overall, your best bet is to think things through a bit more deeply....your analysis is too simple and unrealistic.

ekt_bear, it suffices to say that I disagree with you on this matter.

I am however interested in your suggestions of how to address the issues below. Saying that the issues cannot be resolved without uninterruptible power supply is lazy and unimaginative. I am convinced that you can come up with ideas that could work while we try to solve the power problem. Please do not feel compelled to proffer any solution if you don't have ideas.

Here are the issues once again, what are your thoughts on addressing them other than, maintaing the status quo:

We have a large cotton belt but import textiles from China (thus keeping their subsidized factories open and jobs in china).


We are the world's number one producer of cassava but import cassava starch from Europe.

We have a huge tomato belt in Kadawa, Jigawa and Chad Basin but are the world's largest importer of tomato paste - from China and Italy.


We can produce rice but we import rice from Thailand and India-most of it from grain reserves that have been in stock for over 5 years.

ndu_chucks:

Your lame attempt at shifting focus off GEJ regarding the issues being discussed here has failed woefully, even your gullible followers can see that. I will post the issues once again in case you are as blind as a bat and didn't see it the last time. What are your thoughts on the issues? You may have your typical last word - your have been exposed once again, I know you don't like being humiliated so I will not embarrass you any further. I do not expect you to comment on the issues below, so breathe easily . dolo

Lol! I thought this thread was about Nigeria being "rich." After seeing the comedy in the thought of a "rich" nation in which states and LG's produce fuckall, you made it into a solution finding thread. Sadly, this is where the next comedy arose; you suggested with very strong words that we run power plants off stored gas! Ewo!

My brother, the biggest problem in Nigeria is people screaming all sorts of ignorance from the rooftops and generating unnecessary heat. Your thread started without direction, it has also failed to find direction. Not surprising, since you ended up fooling no one.

Dust your pants and try again. Thanks for the entertainment.

^^^^ True to form. I said I do not expect him to comment on the issues

You are entitled to disagree with anything you like.

You may even disagree that up is up, or assert that 2+2 is not in fact equal to 4.

It is a free world.

But you'll continue to bang your head against the wall and not achieve your goal of poverty alleviation in your region.

*shrug*

unbelievable! Its all about bigotry and hatred of a particular region afterall. I could have sworn the head was not empty. lwkmd

Has nothing to do with bigotry or hatred of a region. Your proposal simply isn't realistic. I wouldn't advocate it for mine either..

ndu_chucks: unbelievable! Its all about bigotry and hatred of a particular region afterall. I could have sworn the head was not empty. lwkmd

Now you know what I have always suspected. BBBJTCCIMNQNSWTS

ekt_bear: Has nothing to do with bigotry or hatred of a region. Your proposal simply isn't realistic. I wouldn't advocate it for mine either..

I respect your position though I disagree with it. Please tell us how you would address the issues I raised, if you have any realistic proposal. Here they are issues once more. (Its OK to say, you don't have an alternative proposal to mine which you believe is unworkable)

We have a large cotton belt but import textiles from China (thus keeping their subsidized factories open and jobs in china).


We are the world's number one producer of cassava but import cassava starch from Europe.

We have a huge tomato belt in Kadawa, Jigawa and Chad Basin but are the world's largest importer of tomato paste - from China and Italy.


We can produce rice but we import rice from Thailand and India-most of it from grain reserves that have been in stock for over 5 years.

The key is to make electricity work and cheaply available (through deregulation), so that small businessmen with $500k-1 million or so in capital can take advantage of the cheap labor in Nigeria to start manufacturing.

If this is done, then the agricultural produce of this country can be processed and value added.

As things stand...well, let's use me as an example.

Suppose that I wanted to start a factory in my home state. First, there is no electricity, so I'd have to generate my own. And obviously it isn't enough to just find electricity somehow, but I must generate it at affordable prices. Otherwise, I'm not competitive pricewise with my competitors in other countries who don't have this disadvantage.

OK, so where do I get the electricity from? Diesel as a fuel source is not realistic, since it isn't cheap enough. Natural gas is a very cheap fuel source but:

A) No gas pipeline runs through my state
B) If one did, then I have to invest in my own NG generator. Not the end of the world, but certainly an additional hassle/inconvenience that your competitors in the US, Europe, China, etc don't have deal with. My competitors just buy their machines and plug it into the wall, I on the other hand have to do so much more, meaning I'm at a disadvantage.

Nigeria's best bet is to make electricity regular and widely available at market prices. Do this, and then the barriers to entry for prospective manufacturers/industrialists is gone. Meaning a guy can reasonably put together $300-500k, open up a small factory and not be at a huge competitive disadvantage with China and co..

This in a nutshell is the problem.

A guy in the US who wants to open up a factory buys his equipment, hires his workers, plugs his machines in the wall.

A guy in Nigeria is burning expensive diesel and so the goods produced from his factory are too costly. Or he has to build his own power plant, essentially.

The barriers to entry are too high. And while the barriers remain high, then you scare away investment in manufacturing, and thus have no realistic hope of decreasing unemployment.

(Not to mention naija's crazy high population growth also makes it difficult to lower unemployment...but that is another story.)

^^^^^ There is no denying of the fact that there are barriers to entry, some of which you've itemized. I wholeheartedly agree that a critical success factor in establishing manufacturing plants in Nigeria is to make electricity work and cheaply available (through deregulation), so that small businessmen with $500k-1 million or so in capital can take advantage of the cheap labor in Nigeria as you stated.

I simply do not agree with the notion that manufacturing plants cannot become competitive in naija given the current power situation. I believe workarounds can be found to make factories succeed in Nigeria today, and successful factories do exist.

Did you know that as at 1980, the textile industry in the country, for example, could boast of over 175 textile factories? This sector brought in about $1.3 billion yearly for the country and employed more than 250,000 workers? The major textile enterprises in Nigeria were located around Lagos which had the majority of the country's spinning mills and weaving mills. Other significant textile operations were located around Kano and Kaduna. Between 70% and 80% of the raw materials used in the industry were sourced locally.

My point is, these factories thrived without uninterruptible power supply and they can be resurrected with good leadership and government support. We don't have to wait until the power problem is completely solved to do this.

This is mathematics, effectively.

Like a 2 + 2 thing...you can agree or not, but the truth of it is independent of your agreement.

If you want to sell your stuff for the same price as the next man, but your expenses are higher, then necessarily your profit is smaller. If expenses too high, then profit becomes 0 or even possibly negative. And when profit is small, 0 or negative, factories are closed, laborers released, and unemployment rises.

Regarding the 80s, electricity demand in Nigeria was lower than it is in 2012, diesel was heavily, heavily subsidized, etc.

Today is a very different place from 1980...

ekt_bear: This is mathematics, effectively.

Like a 2 + 2 thing...you can agree or not, but the truth of it is independent of your agreement.

If you want to sell your stuff for the same price as the next man, but your expenses are higher, then necessarily your profit is smaller. If expenses too high, then profit becomes 0 or even possibly negative. And when profit is small, 0 or negative, factories are closed, laborers released, and unemployment rises.

Regarding the 80s, electricity demand in Nigeria was lower than it is in 2012, diesel was heavily, heavily subsidized, etc.

Today is a very different place from 1980...

You now fully well that the textile industry, just like several others collapsed because of neglect and the unwise shifting of focus to oil, oil, and oil. The collapse had little to do with high expenses versus small profit. The situation is much more than a 2 + 2 thing, some of the models you are familiar with may not be applicable here for several reasons.

You are a hard nut to crack. I hope we can at least agree that some manufacturing is possible and actually taking place even in our current environment. You may want to come and spend a bit of time here to see how creative Nigerians are.

ndu_chucks:
The collapse had little to do with high expenses versus small profit.

lol

Do you believe this sentence you just typed? That a business died, and the reason it died had "little" to do with profit and expenses?

ekt_bear:



lol

Do you believe this sentence you just typed? That a business died, and the reason it died had "little" to do with profit and expenses?

A business did not die, several industries died. Yeap, thats the dutch disease for you, its a well documented phenomenon. Its much more than going out of business because your competition can deliver the same goods cheaper than you.

@ndu chucks
When you come out everyday and the first thing that blasts your forehead is the burning sun at near desert intensity, yet if all you can think about is fantastic schemes about power stations running off stored natural gas, then you should realise that you have big problems indeed. The same thing goes for wind.

If you after all these years living in your own environment, you lack a single creative fibre, why is your instinct to blame others? Cacophony and entropy are the biggest problems with Nigeria.

^^^

Mr. Olashore, what is entropy again?

Nigeria is not currently rich,yes but it is a country with massive revenue;am sure that's the reason the person who initiated the thread wrote so.
If all the administrations since independence had been 100% true to the people,we would be living the dream by now,it did not take Quatar 20 years to get to where she is today:reason?an honest young man who clearly understood that crude oil won't last forever and wanted the best for his people took charge!even if it means,it is from his father!!

Beaf is GAY!!

Nice thread with beautiful inputs.

And i agree almost entirely with the points ekt-bear has raised, especially on the issue of power. Power generation especially for medium/large scale production is such a horribly capital intensive venture that i struggle to see how one can make it without govt support.

Make no mistake about it: our major hindrance to industrialization is POWER, POWER, POWER.

Furthermore the attempt by beaf to shift the blame to the states and LGs only ends up shooting FG on the foot. If you take away oil, how much does even the FG itself contribute? Is it not a case of chopping, chopping, chopping?

Personally i believe ALL the tiers, fed, state and LG have equally contributed to the present sorry state.

Beaf: @ndu chucks
When you come out everyday and the first thing that blasts your forehead is the burning sun at near desert intensity, yet all you can think about is fantastic schemes power stations running off stored natural gas, then you should realise that you have big problems indeed. The same thing goes for wind.

If you after all these years living in your own environment, you lack a single creative fibre, why is your instinct to blame others? Cacophony and entropy are the biggest problems with Nigeria.

Thanks for expressing your opinion. Now for the 3rd time, please let us know your views or the President's views on how these issues may be addressed. We all know that Nnaji and others are addressing the Power problem, we await your comments on this. If you can muster the courage, please avoid insults and childishness:

We have a large cotton belt but import textiles from China (thus keeping their subsidized factories open and jobs in china).


We are the world's number one producer of cassava but import cassava starch from Europe.

We have a huge tomato belt in Kadawa, Jigawa and Chad Basin but are the world's largest importer of tomato paste - from China and Italy.


We can produce rice but we import rice from Thailand and India-most of it from grain reserves that have been in stock for over 5 years.

doofanc: Furthermore the attempt by beaf to shift the blame to the states and LGs only ends up shooting FG on the foot. If you take away oil, how much does even the FG itself contribute? Is it not a case of chopping, chopping, chopping?

Personally i believe ALL the tiers, fed, state and LG have equally contributed to the present sorry state.

How many central governments do you know that generate money? Even in communist China, money making is not done by the central govt.
So when you talk about the FG making money, you are really misfiring tremendously. Money is meant to be generated primarily at LG level as is the case in the entire developed World.

ndu_chucks:

A business did not die, several industries died. Yeap, thats the dutch disease for you, its a well documented phenomenon. Its much more than going out of business because your competition can deliver the same goods cheaper than you.

ndu_chucks, you are flailing around.

An industry is made up of many businesses, no? So if the industry died, then necessarily many businesses died? Thus your first sentence is a contradiction.

You are now appealing to something (dutch disease) that I suspect that you don't understand well.

Out of curiosity, have you ever had to prepare a budget yourself before? Started a business? Again, when 'your competition can deliver the same goods cheaper than you', then your profits necessarily SHRINK. And if they shrink too much, you (or I, ekt_bear) will close down that business and cut down your losses! I'd sell off my equipment/other assets, fire my workers, and find something else to do with the proceeds.

It is that simple. This is cold, hard fact. And there is no way to get around it.

You are wasting your time unless you confront this fact and slay this Nigerian power dragon.

Lets assume that everything you've said is accurate.

What are your suggestions on how to address the issues below, given that we don't have 100% power supply. Power supply will not become 100% available miraculously, do we fold our hands and do nothing until Nnaji succeeds?

This is what I've been trying to extract from you. The issue is not about ndu_chucks please. Lets hear your ideas, we already know that the easiest thing to do is to poke holes in other people's ideas. Lets have yours.

We have a large cotton belt but import textiles from China (thus keeping their subsidized factories open and jobs in china).


We are the world's number one producer of cassava but import cassava starch from Europe.

We have a huge tomato belt in Kadawa, Jigawa and Chad Basin but are the world's largest importer of tomato paste - from China and Italy.


We can produce rice but we import rice from Thailand and India-most of it from grain reserves that have been in stock for over 5 years.

Pretty much. If power supply doesn't become widely available, then the manufacturing industry will remain moribund. You could investigate subsidies/protectionist barriers too I suppose, but neither solves the main issue.

ekt_bear: Pretty much. If power supply doesn't become widely available, then the manufacturing industry will remain moribund. You could investigate subsidies/protectionist barriers too I suppose, but neither solves the main issue.

Fair enough. Your solution is to focus on power supply because without solving that problem, industrialization may not be achievable and no manufacturing plant can survive and be successful in such an environment. Am I reading you correctly?

yes

ekt_bear, Do you think the President and Professor Nnaji are doing the best they can do to solve this problem? What do you think they could do to make power supply readily available in the shortest possible time?

BTW, a refinery is currently being built in Anambra. A generation plant is also being built in the area to support this plant - not sure if the plant is gas fired or combined cycle.

This is an example of a manufacturing plant which will survive despite the power problem. Why would you rather not use this approach, coupled with subsidies and government support to start reviving some of the industries which have been abandoned in the past? Must we really wait for 100% power supply?

The answer is inequality.

Compare Nigeria to Libya under Gaddafi.

Libyans smelt some of the wealth generated from oil - they enjoyed free health care, education, housing etc.

Our leaders are too greedy, corrupt and evil - hence the inequality wee see in Nigeria.