coogar:

you are not having a good day, are you?
so lampard who plays too deep can score 11 goals from a deep position but cannot assist from that same position? which is easier to do 60 yards away from goal? making assists or scoring goals. intelligence is one of those things you are not blessed with.

Most of Lampard goals are long range out of the box shots or set piece, What should he do to help Torres that Mata and hazard are not doing?

How does Mata that have 10 goals and 9 asist does it you mean he is credited with both the goal and assist?

If Hazard or mata gets into space you mean they see Torres and ignore but wait for someone not named Torres before they assist?

this boy is a tool......
if mata/hazard have so many assists and torres has only 7 league goals, then who are they assisting if not themselves? hazard is brought down in the box, lampard scores the penalty.....hazard cops an assist! any goal scored from set play is spread amongst the players as torres isn't the only one in the box. so you are barely scratching the surface of this debate if you cannot tell us who MAZACAR have been assisting.....torres plays way too deep to be scoring as many as van persie or even suarez.....the ramirez goal on saturday is chelsea's major route to goalscoring.

In most Chelsea play Torres is still the arrowhead and if he fails its on him the same way he has got 7 goals in 3 yrs for Spain

1 league goal in 213 mins and still counting........of course, ba would have scored 49 league goals by now. is demba ba better than lukaku?

How many league starts does Demba ba have for Chelsea now?

CFCfan: Lampard's knack of goalscoring shouldn't be ridiculed because it gives CFC a certain extra edge. Teams that rely heavily on strikers to get all the goals, usually fall to the others that devise strategies to mark out the striker.

i disagree with you......
sometimes, the knack of goalscoring can be hazardous to a team.....united once had a player called van nistelrooy. he could score in his sleep and he won 3 uefa champions league golden boots in 5 seasons, broke all records that could be broken but united only had one league title to show for his knack of goalscoring......there's no point in having a goal-crazy player if those goals don't win league titles.......

the cantonas, zidanes, bergkamps, maradonas were not great because they could score 50 goals in a season - but they scored goals when it mattered! what's the point in beating swansea 9-0 when what you get for it is only 3 points? however, if the same lampard could score/assist a goal each for all the games chelsea have drawn this season, he would be more respected - cometh the hour, cometh the man stuff. this is why sunday mba would be a legend and emenike would be quickly forgotten!

dayokanu:
Most of Lampard goals are long range out of the box shots or set piece, What should he do to help Torres that Mata and hazard are not doing?

and those long range out of the box shots are from 60 yards? you are so idiotic when you come up with ridiculous rebuttals such as this one. i asked you, which is more easier to do - scoring or assisting from a defensive midfield position? let's flip this over - name another player in the pivot role with 11 league goals this season with no single assist.....

How does Mata that have 10 goals and 9 asist does it you mean he is credited with both the goal and assist? If Hazard or mata gets into space you mean they see Torres and ignore but wait for someone not named Torres before they assist?

hazard/mata always fly past torres when chelsea are attacking. torres holds the ball with his back to the goal and waits for his runners before he releases the ball. MAZACAR don't play like classic wingers who take the ball to the bye-line before drilling in a low cross, they actually edge torres towards the corner flag so they can flood the ball. the passes to torres should be vertical - not diagonal.

In most Chelsea play Torres is still the arrowhead and if he fails its on him the same way he has got 7 goals in 3 yrs for Spain

he is not the arrow head even though the starting formation says he is.....i am trying to download the heatmaps. you would see soon that torres isn't actually the arrowhead. he's an attacking midfielder!

How many league starts does Demba ba have for Chelsea now?

what has stats gotta do with it? how many starts has hernandez? dzeko? how come they are called supersubs? demba ba(with the amount of cöcksucking he gets from this thread) should be scoring in every appearance: sub or start!

In Lampard tenure Chelsea has won 3 league titles Several FA cups and a Champions league With lampard playing vital roles in each of the wins

@Coogar: Van Nistelrooy never won 5 Champions League titles

Anyway, I largely agree with your point that scoring in crucial situations matter more. The blame for CFC's slump has to go to every player. If the defense/midfield isn't solid, any team would have problems. We all saw how excellent Lampard was in a deeper role against both barcelona and Bayern Munich; therefore I think his goal-scoring prowess is merely a 'bonus'.

dayokanu:

Tell us how your own prediction has fared Torres has played 23 league games with MAZACAR scored 7 goals, Now tell us what happened to your postulation of earlier in the season

Now you acting all wise after you know you've been boxed into a corner.
Answer my questions, cos your answer will tell me which one of your previous statements is actually my prediction.

dayokanu: In Lampard tenure Chelsea has won 3 league titles Several FA cups and a Champions league With lampard playing vital roles in each of the wins

Perspective. After 2 consecutive seasons of spending crazy money, we had to win back to back titles, especially as we had one of the finest managers in the world.

In reality, since then it's been 1 league title in 7 seasons after spending over £600m in that time.

Perspective! So much for the knack for goals.

CFCfan: @Coogar: Van Nistelrooy never won 5 Champions League titles

3 golden boots in 5 champions league seasons as a united player!

Anyway, I largely agree with your point that scoring in crucial situations matter more. The blame for CFC's slump has to go to every player. If the defense/midfield isn't solid, any team would have problems. We all saw how excellent Lampard was in a deeper role against both barcelona and Bayern Munich; therefore I think his goal-scoring prowess is merely a 'bonus'.

that was a demolition job, even mikel was brilliant in those 2 games! when chelsea tried to play like normal teams should, they got decapitated in europe this season!

dayokanu: In Lampard tenure Chelsea has won 3 league titles Several FA cups and a Champions league With lampard playing vital roles in each of the wins

which vital roles?
he has scored 50 premier league goals from penalties alone......and he has the whole london media on his dïck. fat frank can't do no wrong. when the midfield leaks, torres and mikel becomes the scapegoat! in the absence of mikel or torres, ramirez or david luiz takes the blame.

nateevs: Perspective. After 2 consecutive seasons of spending crazy money, we had to win back to back titles, especially as we had one of the finest managers in the world.

In reality, since then it's been 1 league title in 7 seasons after spending over £600m in that time.

Perspective! So much for the knack for goals.

I league title, Sevral FA cup titles and I Champions league title with lampard being the core of those teams

Lampard has never failed to deliver

@ Coogar: True. Lampard and Mikel really held the midfield. The whole issue about playong more expansive football was misplaced. Di Matteo should have been more pragmatic, especially after being 2-0 up against Juventus at Stamford Bridge.

nateevs: Now you acting all wise after you know you've been boxed into a corner.
Answer my questions, cos your answer will tell me which one of your previous statements is actually my prediction.

What is your question? is it that MAZACAR have stopped being creative? No because they have 20 assists between them this season Its the DUD called Torres that cant fit in with anyone.

7 goals in 3 yrs for the most creative National team ever tells the whole story.

So Nateevs it seems you have been wrong once more

nateevs: Torres will get a lot of chances from the football intelligence of Hazard, Marin, Oscar, Mata

The football intelligence of those players are still there only that Torres is not getting chances from them due to his own limitations

dayokanu:
I league title, Sevral FA cup titles and I Champions league title with lampard being the core of those teams
Lampard has never failed to deliver

even when a team as rich in talents as chelsea finished 6th? lampard has never failed to deliver? where was lampard when united were taking the piss in the league winning back to back titles? when xavi was asked who is his best english midfielder - we all know who he mentioned, it wasn't lampard!

CFCfan: @ Coogar: True. Lampard and Mikel really held the midfield. The whole issue about playong more expansive football was misplaced. Di Matteo should have been more pragmatic, especially after being 2-0 up against Juventus at Stamford Bridge.

after spending that much on hazard, oscar, marin, etc - it would have been a travesty for di matteo to set up expensive talents to defend for 90 mins.

dayokanu:
What is your question? is it that MAZACAR have stopped being creative? No because they have 20 assists between them this season Its the DUD called Torres that cant fit in with anyone.

what kind of deluded statement is this one? MAZACAR could have 300 assists between themselves, if those don't assist torres, then they have failed. having 300 assists don't mean shyte cos MAZACAR is not a single player - so hazard could assist mata, mata could assist hazard and the 2 of them can assist oscar - it has nothing to do with torres!

7 goals in 3 yrs for the most creative National team ever tells the whole story.

another daft statement - yet, it was during these 3 yrs that he won the golden boot that took his country into retaining the euros.

So Nateevs it seems you have been wrong once more
The football intelligence of those players are still there only that Torres is not getting chances from them due to his own limitations

this would be true if torres was missing chances by the dozens in every game but is he? the average position of MAZACAR in any game is further ahead of torres. it is torres who assist them not the other way round. if we strip it down to only the assists from open play, torres has assisted more goals than any of MAZACAR, true or false?

checkmate!

coogar:


after spending that much on hazard, oscar, marin, etc - it would have been a travesty for di matteo to set up expensive talents to defend for 90 mins.

You got me wrong. I never said that Chelsea should have defended for 90 minutes. After going 2-0 up, Di Matteo could have changed the formation to a 4-5-1, which would have been handy in counter-attacking situations. If Chelsea had won that game, the club would still have been in the Champions League.

CFCfan:
You got me wrong. I never said that Chelsea should have defended for 90 minutes. After going 2-0 up, Di Matteo could have changed the formation to a 4-5-1, which would have been handy in counter-attacking situations. If Chelsea had won that game, the club would still have been in the Champions League.

and they would have been found out again in the advanced stage of the competition - better now than never. di matteo's mistake for me was resting torres in turin. he took a serious risk leaving a £50m talent on the bench and losing. it can be argued torres would have scored if he had started regardless of torres' current form.

Frank Lampard 198 goals and 130 assists!

That is no mean feat by anybody's standards!

coogar:

and they would have been found out again in the advanced stage of the competition - better now than never. di matteo's mistake for me was resting torres in turin. he took a serious risk leaving a £50m talent on the bench and losing. it can be argued torres would have scored if he had started regardless of torres' current form.

Yeah, I couldn't understand why RDM didn't deploy a striker for the Turin match. Only Spain and Barcelona can afford to do that
Torres' presence alone would have put fear into the Juve defenders. Who knows, Torres could have knicked one goal for the Blues.

coogar: even when a team as rich in talents as chelsea finished 6th? lampard has never failed to deliver? where was lampard when united were taking the piss in the league winning back to back titles? when xavi was asked who is his best english midfielder - we all know who he mentioned, it wasn't lampard!

Chelsea finished 6th because lampard was injured for a lot of games and when he came back won the FA cup and CL double for Chelsea

What Xavi said? Im sure Pele also called Godwin Okpara a great

what kind of deluded statement is this one? MAZACAR could have 300 assists between themselves, if those don't assist torres, then they have failed. having 300 assists don't mean shyte cos MAZACAR is not a single player - so hazard could assist mata, mata could assist hazard and the 2 of them can assist oscar - it has nothing to do with torres!

For a striker to get chances he has to be in position If Mazacar has 20 assists between them and Torres still cant profit then he is the dud. Its no surprise since he can play ahead of Xaviesta and still have 7 goals in 3 yrs while someone like David Villa is scoring bucketful

this would be true if torres was missing chances by the dozens in every game but is he? the average position of MAZACAR in any game is further ahead of torres. it is torres who assist them not the other way round. if we strip it down to only the assists from open play, torres has assisted more goals than any of MAZACAR, true or false?

Maybe thats because Torres has a below average football sense Thats why Hazard and Mata can assist others but not Torres.

CFCfan:
Yeah, I couldn't understand why RDM didn't deploy a striker for the turin match. Only Spain and Barcelona can afford to do that
Torres' presence alone would have put fear into the Juve defenders. Who knows, Torres could have knicked one goal for the Blues.

even if he didn't score - di matteo would have had a valid excuse the boys disappointed on the night as he tried everything he could.......but leaving torres out gave him no leeway. if he had won, he would have been hailed as a tactical genius but he lost - he deserved the sack letter and his league form was coming apart as at then too.

dayokanu:
Chelsea finished 6th because lampard was injured for a lot of games and when he came back won the FA cup and CL double for Chelsea

chelsea finished 6th because lampard came back - they would have finished higher if didn't recover from his injury last season.

What Xavi said? Im sure Pele also called Godwin Okpara a great

pele retired in 71, he predicted godwin okpara was going to be great in the 90s. xavi and scholes are still playing......xavi knows what the game still demands, pele did not when he made his prediction!

For a striker to get chances he has to be in position If Mazacar has 20 assists between them and Torres still cant profit then he is the dud. Its no surprise since he can play ahead of Xaviesta and still have 7 goals in 3 yrs while someone like David Villa is scoring bucketful

what sort of position would he be when passes to him from deep are aimed diagonally so the roaming 3 + lampard/ramirez can flood the box. it's like you suddenly became blind bartimeaus, if we take out the set plays from MAZACAR, torres has assisted more goals than any of them, true or false? if true - who is torres assisting? and if he's assisting without setpiece then it's fair to say its idiotic to expect him to score as many as his counterparts!

Maybe thats because Torres has a below average football sense Thats why Hazard and Mata can assist others but not Torres.

below average sense and he has assisted more league goals in open play than mata-hazard-oscar? wow - you have a beclouded sense of vision!

coogar:

and they would have been found out again in the advanced stage of the competition - better now than never. di matteo's mistake for me was resting torres in turin. he took a serious risk leaving a £50m talent on the bench and losing. it can be argued torres would have scored if he had started regardless of torres' current form.

Someone who scored 7 goals in 23 starts would suddenly turn into a ball of fire and score in Turin. It can also be argued that Eddie Dombraye or Femi Opabunmi would have scored in South Africa if Keshi had taken him

CFCfan:

Yeah, I couldn't understand why RDM didn't deploy a striker for the Turin match. Only Spain and Barcelona can afford to do that
Torres' presence alone would have put fear into the Juve defenders. Who knows, Torres could have knicked one goal for the Blues.

How many defenders has Torres presence put fear into? The same Torres that cant put fear into QPR defenders?

coogar:

even if he didn't score - di matteo would have had a valid excuse the boys disappointed on the night as he tried everything he could.......but leaving torres out gave him no leeway. if he had won, he would have been hailed as a tactical genius but he lost - he deserved the sack letter and his league form was coming apart as at then too.

I don't think sacking him was d best decision, to be honest. Our league form has even further deteriorated under Rafa Benitez. Who knows, maybe Chelsea would have defeated QPR, Newcastle and other lower table teams that we lost 2 points to. The only league blemish under RDM was the 0-0 draw with QPR earlier in the season. The Man United match was largely decided by the referee's actions.

dayokanu:

Someone who scored 7 goals in 23 starts would suddenly turn into a ball of fire and score in Turin. It can also be argued that Eddie Dombraye or Femi Opabunmi would have scored in South Africa if Keshi had taken him

Haha. I dey ROTFL

CFCfan:

I don't think sacking him was d best decision, to be honest. Our league form has even further deteriorated under Rafa Benitez. Who knows, maybe Chelsea would have defeated QPR, Newcastle and other lower table teams that we lost 2 points to. The only league blemish under RDM was the 0-0 draw with QPR earlier in the season. The Man United match was largely decided by the referee's actions.

united beat chelsea hands down....
at 2-0, torres should have seen a red card in the first half when he drop kicked tom cleverley. it was worse than the de jong kick in the world cup final. ivanovic then went on to foul ashley young as the last man - whose fault is that?

coogar:

united beat chelsea hands down....
at 2-0, torres should have seen a red card in the first half when he drop kicked tom cleverley. it was worse than the de jong kick in the world cup final. ivanovic then went on to foul ashley young as the last man - whose fault is that?

Ok, United beat Chelsea hands down; but at that moment Chelsea could still realistically and mathematically win the league. The Chelsea board acted irrationally. There is no team in the world that wins up to 70% of its games in a league.

How many assists do Carrick and Cleverley have in total between them this season?

Some ninjas want me to hit them with the Torres gif and accompanying statements after the Newcastle game. Apparently Torres had always been making great runs, but likes of Lampard didn't understand him until the uber intelligent Hazard arrived to show what Torres has been missing.

Abeg who saw Lampards two volleyed passes against Wigan. The King of the first time pass has never been appreciated by myopic neophytes who can only appreciate a player when he caress the ball and denge before releasing pass. Show me a player who does the first time pass better than Lamps and I'll show you a halal piece of pork.

Lukaku beasting at West Brom

dayokanu:

What is your question? is it that MAZACAR have stopped being creative? No because they have 20 assists between them this season Its the DUD called Torres that cant fit in with anyone.

7 goals in 3 yrs for the most creative National team ever tells the whole story.

So Nateevs it seems you have been wrong once more



The football intelligence of those players are still there only that Torres is not getting chances from them due to his own limitations

Wrong once more?
I see that you settled for "chances have been created" part of your statement. Good.
If you read well, you would have seen that I said that those chances "are capable of bringing back the old Torres" . . Very different from "Torres WILL SCORE from them" which you are accusing me of having said. And bros, NO, I did not say that.

So once again, you are wrong. 3 months later, you still don't understand the scope of the argument.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Watch him come back with me claiming chances "WILL BE" created.
He has to win.

A-40:
Lukaku beasting at West Brom

Good decision to send him on loan then.

nateevs:

Good decision to send him on loan then.

Its suddenly a good decision now? So does RDM get any credit for sending him on loan? I woulda sworn that was one of his foibles not too long ago

A-40:

Its suddenly a good decision now? So does RDM get any credit for sending him on loan? I woulda sworn that was one of his foibles not too long ago

How do you mean suddenly? With the way Chelsea works, I am not one of those who told you RDM sent him on loan.
RDM would hardly get 5 mins in the room such decisions are being made.

nateevs:
How do you mean suddenly? With the way Chelsea works, I am not one of those who told you RDM sent him on loan.
RDM would hardly get 5 mins in the room such decisions are being made.

That is a to whom it may be concerned post. Are you saying RDM didn't get stick for Lukaku going on loan? At least Debosky was guilty of listing that as one of his failures. So who sent Lukaku on loan then I ask you?

A-40:

That is a to whom it may be concerned post. Are you saying RDM didn't get stick for Lukaku going on loan? At least Debosky was guilty of listing that as one of his failures. So who sent Lukaku on loan then I ask you?

I personally believe RDM was fully involved in sending him on loan - RDM's words suggest this as RDM said he wouldn't get games. It was a terrible decision to send him on loan, especially since other top clubs have 3-4 strikers on the roll.