logicboy: you must choose the maker's correct answer

Precisely.

emöfine2: Buzugee, I’m not talking about the daily individual decisions we have the free choice to make and bare the consequences thereof. I’m exclusively discussing this so called god-given “free will”. The “free will” that grants us the apparent right to choose whether one adheres to god or not. Yet if one makes the initial decision not to worship god there is the threat of hell to bare much weight on such a person’s ultimate decision. Does this not sound like extortion? How can one exercise their free will when they are effectively being blackmailed?
Worship me or die does not resemble free will. It’s an ultimatum.

same turd different toilet. same situation applies. you have the freewill to be a heathen or a believer. nobodys is coercing you to be a believer. but as stated earlier, every choice has consequences. it is time for you to put your big girl skirt on and live with the consequences of any decision you make. thats freewill.

*sigh*

Please don’t be deliberately obtuse. How many “believers” are governed by fear simply because they believe if they don’t believe in god they’ll perish in the lake of fire? Thus did not the threat of hell force some into making a decision to adhere to god?

I agree it’s still a “choice” one has the responsibility for themselves to decide but it’s a limited one in favour of God.

logicboy:

A theory question- limited freedom; because you are free to write as much as you like but must be related to topic of the question

A multiple choice question- even more limited freedom; because you have no freedom to write what you want, you must choose the maker's correct answer

Were you the one i advised on the glasses? So, is multiple choice unfair, coercion or blackmail?

emöfine2: *sigh*

Please don’t be deliberately obtuse. How many “believers” are governed by fear simply because they believe if they don’t believe in god they’ll perish in the lake of fire? Thus did not the threat of hell coerce some into making such a decision to adhere to god?

I agree it’s still a “choice” one has the responsibility for themselves to decide but it’s a limited one in favour of God.

if you make a choice out of fear ? its still a choice. you did not have to make that choice. not having a choice will be ' being born into slavery in 1800s america. you are born into slavery. you have no choice in the matter. you will be a slave till you die. and if you refuse to be a slave, you will be lynched and burnt at the stake'

hope you are starting to see the difference between freewill and not having freewill ? just cuz you choose to do something out of fear does not negate the freewill involved. you can choose to ignore the fear and not do it. you have that choice. as opposed to not having any choice at all such as the slavery scenario i gave. nobody is putting a gun to your head. you make your choice and you live with the consequences of your choice. its as simple as that. choice attached to consequences is still choice.

logicboy:

A theory question- limited freedom; because you are free to write as much as you like but must be related to topic of the question

A multiple choice question- even more limited freedom; because you have no freedom to write what you want, you must choose the maker's correct answer

Image123:
Were you the one i advised on the glasses? So, is multiple choice unfair, coercion or blackmail?

Where in my above comment did I relate multiple choice questions to unfairness/coercion/blackmail? "Freedom" was the point and word I used.


Typical, keep engaging in reductto ad absurdum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

emöfine2:

Except it’s not really a “choice” it’s an ultimatum. It’s not even the threat to set ablaze those who fail to yield to “Him” that I find most conceited but the demand for worship. How much effect can a mere mortal’s belief have on god?

oh then we'll call it 'choice ultimatum'. God says we were created for that purpose. When you own something, personally made or bought, you expect it to fulfill its purpose, else its good for nothing. Waste disposal, please use the recycle bin.

2good:

Free will doesn't make sense if God is omniscience and knows all things from the beginning to the end because that will also means he knew the devil was going to rebel against him before he created him and still went ahead to create the devil. He also knew whether we will all go to heaven or hell before creating us yet he did. It is only people that want to deceive themselves that will still hold on to the notion of free will they were brainwashed with from childhood. Within the limit of man, we can talk about free will because we don't know our tomorrow since we are not omniscience. But when you talk about a knower of everything giving free will, then you are definitely deceiving yourself as it contradicts the most basics of reasoning.

just because i know the path you will take from A to Z, as i am the ever knowing creator, does not mean you didnt have the freewill to chart your own course. you charted your own course but i knew the course you would chart because i see your beginning to your end. me being an ever knowing God and knowing what decisions people would make does not remove from the fact that they made the decisions on their own.

Image123: It's like multiple choice, there's only one right answer. Is multiple choice unfair or a coercion?

logicboy:

A theory question- limited freedom; because you are free to write as much as you like but must be related to topic of the question

A multiple choice question- even more limited freedom; because you have no freedom to write what you want, you must choose the maker's correct answer

Image123: It's like multiple choice, there's only one right answer. Is multiple choice unfair or a coercion?

Your reply was to my quoted post above, are you by chance, sleeping? You forgot to answer the question mr.logi

buzugee: just because i know the path you will take from A to Z, as i am the ever knowing creator, does not mean you didnt have the freewill to chart your own course. you charted your own course but i knew the course you would chart because i see your beginning to your end. me being an ever knowing God and knowing what decisions people would make does not remove from the fact that they made the decisions on their own.

no wonder he's hiding.

Logic Mind:

no wonder he's hiding.

he aint exactly hiding. his presence is everywhere. who you think brought judgement (hurricane) on haiti ? ( they were worshipping voodoo too much, idols ). who you think brought judgement on louisiana (katrina) ? ( they were worshipping voodoo too much. idols ). those nations are full of israelites and israelites are the only ones paying for their sins in this world because we are the convenant people. however after the second death which will be by fire, all the heathen nations will be the ones paying for their sins because they have had the chance to have the convenant through the bible.

Image123:
Were you the one i advised on the glasses? So, is multiple choice unfair, coercion or blackmail?

logicboy:

A theory question- limited freedom; because you are free to write as much as you like but must be related to topic of the question

A multiple choice question- even more limited freedom; because you have no freedom to write what you want, you must choose the maker's correct answe

Image123:
Your reply was to my quoted post above, are you by chance, sleeping? You forgot to answer the question mr.logi

Yes, I replied you but where in my reply did you see me mention coercion/unfairness/blackmail?

buzugee: he aint exactly hiding. his presence is everywhere. who you think brought judgement (hurricane) on haiti ? ( they were worshipping voodoo too much, idols ). who you think brought judgement on louisiana (katrina) ? ( they were worshipping voodoo too much. idols ). those nations are full of israelites and israelites are the only ones paying for their sins in this world because we are the convenant people. however after the second death which will be by fire, all the heathen nations will be the ones paying for their sins because they have had the chance to have the convenant through the bible.

i fear for your mental state of health, it is deteriorating faster than the will power to resist food of an obese cat!

Heathen: i fear for your mental state of health, it is deteriorating faster than the will power to resist food of an obese cat!

come on now. my mental health is deteriorating because i believe in God ? that must mean the mental health of the whole world is deteriorating. read these verses

lamentations 3 vs 38 is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come what happened in those places were calamities

amos 3 vs 6 When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it? what happened to those cities were disasters

you still think i am crazy ?

Martian: When I think about free will and omniscience, I think about a character in a novel saying he has free will when the author of the novel already decided his choice and his fate on the very next page.

The Reluctant Sorcerer by Simon Hawke is a very interesting science fiction novel. Its written in two parts and the author gets derailed by one of his characters, the main antagonist.
In the end, the character actually determines the authors fate.

EDIT
Its actually a trilogy.

buzugee: come on now. my mental health is deteriorating because i believe in God ? that must mean the mental health of the whole world is deteriorating. read these verses

lamentations 3 vs 38 is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come what happened in those places were calamities

amos 3 vs 6 When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it? what happened to those cities were disasters

you still think i am crazy ?

yes

buzugee: he aint exactly hiding. his presence is everywhere. who you think brought judgement (hurricane) on haiti ? ( they were worshipping voodoo too much, idols ). who you think brought judgement on louisiana (katrina) ? ( they were worshipping voodoo too much. idols ). those nations are full of israelites and israelites are the only ones paying for their sins in this world because we are the convenant people. however after the second death which will be by fire, all the heathen nations will be the ones paying for their sins because they have had the chance to have the convenant through the bible.

I laugh whenever I read your post because it seems you came from another planet with your own unique way of making yourself happy by interpreting events to satisfy your fantasies.

Is buzugee a Nigerian?. . . .

buzugee: he aint exactly hiding. his presence is everywhere. who you think brought judgement (hurricane) on haiti ? ( they were worshipping voodoo too much, idols ). who you think brought judgement on louisiana (katrina) ? ( they were worshipping voodoo too much. idols ). those nations are full of israelites and israelites are the only ones paying for their sins in this world because we are the convenant people. however after the second death which will be by fire, all the heathen nations will be the ones paying for their sins because they have had the chance to have the convenant through the bible.

Punishment from God? you are joking bro and pls quit ok?

2good:

I laugh whenever I read your post because it seems you came from another planet with your own unique way of making yourself happy by interpreting events to satisfy your fantasies.

Hmmm

mazaje: Is buzugee a Nigerian?. . . .

No, he is a delusioned black zionist wannabe who should be at yaba left

logicboy:







Yes, I replied you but where in my reply did you see me mention coercion/unfairness/blackmail?

think! i mentioned it!! and the OP! You took one part of my post without touching the end part. And i went "So", what of the last part? What's the name of your class teacher?

As for me, I have free will.

The reward and punishment system used by yahweh and other dictators, is sufficient restriction any form of liberty. It is more or less a positive reinforcement.

Freewill is synonymous to unbounded by necessity, law, culture etc..

Image123:
oh then we'll call it 'choice ultimatum'. God says we were created for that purpose. When you own something, personally made or bought, you expect it to fulfill its purpose, else its good for nothing. Waste disposal, please use the recycle bin.

Free will by a sentient being, is self determination, the freedom to define his/its purpose to a goal of happiness or whatever he/it wishes.

Kay 17: The reward and punishment system used by yahweh and other dictators, is sufficient restriction any form of liberty. It is more or less a positive reinforcement.

Freewill is synonymous to unbounded by necessity, law, culture etc..

Do you think there should be prisons and police, or it's better everyone has unlimited freedom and all forms of liberty?

Image123:
Do you think there should be prisons and police, or it's better everyone has unlimited freedom and all forms of liberty?

then how is the will free when we have an upper and lower fixed points of accord?

Image123:
Do you think there should be prisons and police, or it's better everyone has unlimited freedom and all forms of liberty?

I don't think we are dealing with ethical questions on free will, rather its nature.

Kay 17:

I don't think we are dealing with ethical questions on free will, rather its nature.

Worship is ethical to some, like to me, God etc?

mkmyers45: then how is the will free when we have an upper and lower fixed points of accord?

It's free in the sense that you can decide, and in the sense that your decision affect your destiny. And in the sense that you're not like the sun or the planets who have no freewill. The sun cannot decide not to shine for instance.

Image123:
Worship is ethical to some, like to me, God etc?

You didn't understand me. I meant whether free will ois progressive or destructive is not in issue. What is free will is what's in issue.

ea7: yes

i shall have you know that i am the most sane person this side of the atlantic ocean