@OldGlory & Others

How i wish you answer those questions in order.

We owe it a duty to educate others about the true position in the so-called-abroad.


For example, i have a friend who earn $700 working in Nigeria, she spends not more than $250 a month saving $500. examine the percentage of her expenditure against income.

Can abroad based people have such a saving without using credit card as a saviour?

I have tasted both coins, though abroad is better but not that significant.

Old Glory:

@Sage

There will be no need to compare "Bit by Bit". The man understands right from wrong and good versus bad. I think there is simply no comparison.
Life Expectancy in Nigeria is in the Low 40"s (WHO)

Did you believe in those nonsense?

I beg!

@Akolowale

Please tell me why i should not believe. Look at the health systems, Accidents rate, Income levels, and quality of life, ETC I think the Low  40" may be a bit optimistic. Give me statistics that show it is higher and i may believe you. Your friend is saving $500 a month, but does not have health/auto insurance, life insurance, workers compensation ETC. I save more than that every month. And if i need to go to get surgery and my bill is $15,000, my deductable is $250 out of my pocket. I will get state of the art health care and my jobs gives my free health care. Now you friend if she had a health issue, all her savings will be gone. What is her standard of Living, Quality of Life?

Her savings sounds good but very few in Nigeria make $700 per month. I am still not sure what your argument is? What are you saying? Nigeria is a better place to Live? Well if so, go ahead and live and let me live. Please adjust your math up there.

@OldGlory

I know where i am going if you and my friend in Germany could just answer the questions in post #92.

I will appreciate if you answer those questions in order.

How could you afford a $15000 surgery? In United states, nobody can but help through insurance.

Old Glory:

What are you saying? Nigeria is a better place to Live? Well if so, go ahead and live and let me live. Please adjust your math up there.

Cool down my friend, I know few people who are doing well in Nigeria but was misled to leave their jobs, sold off their properties to go to "almighty" abroad only to be dissapointed.

At least we have Insurance so we do not have to pay those cost. That is why it is called INSURANCE. You pay into a system and it is rewarded when you need it. You have all these safety nets, that the country has provided for you,that is why the system is better here. I do not think we should argue again. I will stay here and you enjoy Nigeria.

oh yeah!!!!! it is better, get real men,

Nigeria is good but Abroad is better, as i am now, I'm not ready to settle down in Nigeria to suffer unnecessarily when life is much better Abroad. I could go back when i have a better life (more matured with some money to start something good in Nigeria to be able to survive through most of the things like electricity, water, costly products etc.

Mr Akolawole

I know few people who are doing well in Nigeria

like u always, few,

If you are legal in the US or Europe, yes life is truly much better. If you are illegal, that is where the problem lies.

1. Health insurance - i have not had course to use it in over a yr and yet i'm glad i have a safety net somewhere so if i fall ill i won't have to empty everyone's savings just to get substandard health care.
2. Wonderful infrastructure - Electricity never goes off. imagine the amount of man hrs lost as a result of power outage. Once power is out, most govt establishments in Nigeria close for the day.
3. Auto insurance.
4. You can actually dream of a better life unlike in Nigeria where everything depends on who you know and how hard you pray!

This is "life" in Nigeria


Is NHIS Good for Our Health?
Simon Kolawole Live, 05.01.2006
http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=46925

One of the most traumatic years of my life was 2005. My three-year-old daughter was very ill. After navigating various hospitals and clinics in Lagos, touring all manner of labs, consulting all kinds of doctors, learning all sorts of medical jargons and burning every note of naira in my account without getting to the root of the problem, we finally landed at the Lagos University Teaching Hospital (LUTH). In addition to the agony of seeing my darling daughter in pains, [b]I discovered that LUTH was also ill. I wept inwardly. The window nets were dirty and torn. The toilets desperately needed water. The elevator was dead. I almost broke down in tears as I saw a man with a bad leg being physically carried upstairs instead of via the lift. All on my mind was the oil money being wasted on things like furniture, convoys and choice property by our politicians.
Eventually, my daughter’s ailment was correctly diagnosed after several weeks of going to and fro, mainly because one specialist was not around and one machine had broken down and all other familiar stories. She needed a surgery, we were told, and the surgery could be done at LUTH. The only problem was that you could not be sure of electricity supply. If NEPA struck, just pray that the generating set would come on. “The other day, a surgeon was performing an operation when the light went off,” a doctor told me. “In the dark, he mistakenly cut himself with the scalpel. But you can still do the operation here, if you don’t mind.” The second problem was water. “You would need to be fetching water upstairs to take care of the patient and yourself—you know, water for bathing, flushing the toilets, washing and things like that. But there’s no problem with that.” The last “no problem” was drugs. “The drugs may not be available in our pharmacy, so you may need to be going out to the chemists to purchase them. But there are many chemists in this area. That should be no problem.”[/b]After agonising for several days, we decided to do the surgery at a private hospital. It was going to cost six times more, but I was ready to sell myself to save my daughter’s life. God so kind, the operation, which was done in August last year, was very successful. My daughter bounced back to life in a matter of days, bringing joy and sunshine to my life yet again despite all the months of distress and agony that had engulfed my soul. About the same time, my rent was due. The operation had left me so penniless that my landlord had to mercifully knock N50,000 off my rent in sympathy. At the end of the whole experience, I sat down with my wife and began to ask her questions I knew she couldn’t answer: “How many poor Nigerians can afford to pay N300,000 for an operation like this? How many poor Nigerians die or lose their loved ones because of medical bills? What is the government doing about this problem? If the children of our rulers are ill, they’ll fly them in air ambulance to London or Paris for treatment. But how many Nigerians can afford that? How many poor Nigerians are battling to pay rent and bills at the same time?”
I was pleased to learn, later, that Lagos State has a kind of arrangement that offers virtually free medical services, including operation, to children. I also learnt that in Rivers State, Caesarean Section is free (nobody pre-plans for CS and a lot of women lose their children or their lives while their husbands go cap-in-hand scouting for funds for the operation). However, I still felt there should be a global scheme that will allow Nigerians to receive medical treatment without having to deposit large sums of money.
In the United States, for instance, those who have health insurance receive treatment without hassles. In the UK, the National Health Service (NHS) is free to citizens, although it is financed with tax payers’ money and it is in serious crisis at the moment as the British government battles to cut costs.

Last year, I was very delighted to learn that President Olusegun Obasanjo had finally decided to give teeth to the seemingly doomed National Health Insurance Scheme (NHIS). It is an insurance scheme that guarantees medical treatment without down payment, based on regular monthly contributions (10% by the employer and 5% by the employee). Initially, I was very sceptical because I had been hearing of NHIS since I was born and nothing had really come out of it. Several governments had toyed with the idea and turned the idea to a toy. The idea was mooted as far back as 1962 by Dr. Moses Majekodunmi, who was then the Minister of Health. The bill, which he presented to the parliament, was turned down. In 1984, Admiral Patrick Koshoni, then Minister of Health, tried to kick-start it, but the story didn’t change. Same for Dr. Emmanuel Nsan the following year. However, under the IBB government, Professor Olikoye Ransome-Kuti raised the idea again, and took it before the National Council on Health, which in 1992, finally approved that there should be an NHIS under the health ministry. It turned out to be inchoate. Nothing else happened until 1997 when General Sani Abacha formally launched the scheme and appointed an Executive Secretary. Yet, nothing happened again until 1999 when General Abdulsalami Abubakar signed a Decree to formally establish the agency. It was something like a yo-yo.
However, to President Obasanjo’s credit, he has demonstrated remarkable political will and commitment to the scheme since the re-launch last year. This will surely be one of the greatest legacies he will leave behind when he ends his two-term tenure on May 29, 2007 and bows out gracefully at the Eagle Square, Abuja. His place in history is guaranteed, more so with the considerable success that NHIS is beginning to record since the re-launch. The president’s commitment, combined with his choice of Dr. Mustapha Lecky, a product of the University of California, Berkeley and Harvard University, Cambridge, USA, as the Executive Secretary, may have provided the much-needed tonic for the mini-revolution in the making.
Dr. Lecky, who reputedly has vast experience in health services financing and health sector reforms, said as much in a recent newspaper interview. He was quoted as saying: “I think we have the highest political support for the scheme… President Obasanjo truly believes in this scheme and he is willing to get it done.” Lecky himself appears to have started on a right footing by holding a stakeholders’ meeting involving the Nigeria Labour Congress and other trade unions, healthcare providers, civil servants and others in preparation for the full-scale take-off of the scheme. Like I have often tried to argue on this page, any project or programme that is supposed to be delivered to the people must also involve the true representatives of the people in the process of planning. That is the surest way of providing for the end users’ inputs and promoting ownership of the programme at the same time. The people must have a sense of belonging for it to succeed.
According to reports, since the scheme commenced service in September last year, the response has been encouraging. Over 700,000 Nigerians have registered so far—which Lecky describes as the “fastest in the history of national social health insurance scheme across the world”. Nearly 95% of federal civil servants have registered. At the end of the current registration exercise covering the police, armed forces and parastatals, the figure is expected to hit three million. The organised private sector is also expected to be fully involved in the programme. NHIS has registered health maintenance organisations (HMO)—the bodies that do the actual work on its behalf. It is the HMOs that handle the payments to healthcare providers and monitor/ensure the quality of service. Under the scheme, there are now about 20 HMOs and 5,000 healthcare providers across the country. As the scheme becomes more known and understood by Nigerians, surely more people will get involved and benefit from it.
I believe the job being done by Dr. Lecky and his NHIS colleagues is highly commendable. In less than a year, Lecky has set up an effective administrative structure for the scheme. The computerisation of registration, ID cards and all the necessary data is spot on, in a hugely analogue country like ours. However, I think there are other grounds that Lecky has to cover. One is the potential clash between pharmacists and doctors on who has what right over what area. Pharmacists and doctors have perfected a way of perennially antagonising each other on several issues and whatever differences they have must be well managed for the health insurance scheme to achieve maximum success. If this would need the president’s intervention, so be it. Two, the quality of service rendered by the healthcare service providers must be subjected to serious scrutiny. Although this is the duty of HMOs, NHIS must enforce the standards. Hospitals that are understaffed and under-equipped should not be allowed to participate in the scheme. This will further enhance the credibility of the scheme and the quality of service delivery.
Finally, is there any provision for those who don’t work in public service and organised private sector? I am referring specifically to the informal sector operators—the bus drivers, tomato sellers and vulcanisers who number millions in Nigeria.  These people constitute at least 60% of our economy. I believe, if the law permits, Dr. Lecky and his team can design a specific product for them that will be simple and flexible and allow them to enjoy as much benefits as possible. I paid over N300,000 for my daughter’s operation, and I hate to think that a bus driver will lose his child or wife to a curable ailment—simply because he cannot afford the hospital bills. Yet, this sad scenario occurs in Nigeria everyday.
No doubt, Dr. Lecky, despite the big teething challenges, has lived up to expectations. This is one legacy President Obasanjo cannot afford to underemphasise for the sake of healthy prosperity—and posterity.

All,

I enjoy visiting this and other blog sites, but this is my first post on this site, so if I am
out of order, please understand and forgive.

Having said that, I will like to contribute my 2 cents to the above topic. I have lived in
the US for almost 15 years (came here when I was 18), most of my immediate family live
here as well. The answer to the question depends on each individual's circumstances.
Personally, I am at a point in my life where I am considering relocating to Nigeria. Was
in Nigeria earlier this year and I liked what I saw - its coming around slowly, in-spite of
the absence of government or governance in many areas of life. Of course, living there
is a different story entirely compared to a visit, but I remain optimistic.

The simple truth is that for all its convenience, and fast food mentality to everything, US
has a lot of shortcomings. At the end of the day, if you have money, you can insulate
yourself from these shortcomings, just like in Nigeria too. Its really hard to comprehend
the level of stress that comes along with having a 24hours everything. With the exception
of driving on nice roads, you practically have to pay for everything else directly or indirectly.

Yes, you make the money but they hit you with all kind of taxes, and of course, they take
it from you before you even see it. If you want to live in a very nice neighborhood (say a
$200K home and above in most states), be prepared to part with at least 3 to 5% of the
appraised value of your home every year in property taxes. God help you if you are married
and have kids - because you will be running helter-skelter like a mad man every week trying
to drop kids off at daycare and make it to work on time, and the likes.

And of course, the high paying job and lifestyle you enjoy may be taking away from you at
a moment notice due to layoffs, right-sizing, down-sizing, and other fancy names they like
to conjure up over here. The way I see it, something has gone wrong over here, even the
safety nets that made it more attractive to people of walks of life are under assault and are
being chipped away slowly.

I am saying all this to help somebody out there. As long as you maintain a realistic expectation,
you will not be disappointed over here. But If you have a decent paying job in Nigeria, please
stay with it. NEPA may continue to haunt you, but believe me you may be in for another rude
awakening once you are no longer mesmerized by the glass skyscrapers, nice roads, steady
electricity, nice cars (most of it barely paid for), etc. In my opinion there is more QUALITY of life
in Nigeria than here. Making $50K or over $100K a year sounds great, but the real question is
how much of that does one get to keep or see at the end of the year? Flame away,

@Everyone

This is directed to my United States based friends.

Why did you decided to muddle things up here.

I ask 7 simple questions, which was never answered.

Health System

In United Kingdom, Health is free, thanks to NHS, once a patient has a NHS number, he/she is entitled to free health service.

In United States, Health Service is Expensive, which is why resident pay via Insurance scheme


I would appreciate if we go back to those questions please.

@Iyke-D

You will forever enjoy the glory of God in your life(Amen).

Thank you so much for your contribution.

@Kola

Most people get the health Insurance in the US thru their Jobs, and in most cases it comes free with the Job. And you can pay for your family if you choose too. But people do not die from health emergencies. By law all hospitals are open to ANYONE whether you have Insurance or not, whether you are legal or Illegal. In the UK they have free health insurance, but they have long wait times for services unlike in the US. Our health system is not perfect, but at least we have one.

Health system - Far better in the US and I suppose in Europe too. But in the US, health care is not free.
So the real question, becomes can you afford health care? With insurance, most people can. But when
you lose your job, your insurance goes. Virtually most benefits are tied to once employment in the US, so
it becomes an issue of working to LIVE and not living to WORK. It is a game of chance, just like in Nigeria
in some aspects too.

Education - Better, although the cost is skyrocketting and getting out of reach of the common man. Otherwise
there are government backed student loans which although is a good idea will keep in you debt from the
time you graduate to when you are about to retire (soon retirement age will be 75 - what joy?)

Security - Better, but it all depends on where you live. Your chances of getting jacked (robbed) may be lower
in Lekki than say in Ikeja (no offense, )

Electricity/Water - Better as long as you pay your bills because they will caught it off if you don't pay.

Here is a sample of bills that the average persons pays here a month,

Rent/Mortgage
Car
Cable TV
Water
Gas
Electric
Medical Insurance
Life Insurance - optional
Car Insurance - mandatory in most states
Phone/Cell Bill
- My US folks please add,

There is no right or wrong answer to this question. Its down to the individual. However the fact remains that most of the contributions to this thread has been directed toward the middle class which is not a good representation of majority of nigeria but may be in the case of the US.

My point is the percentage of nigerians that are suffering is insane. I dare to say 65%
Kids hawking on the street
countless undocumented murders, rapes, kidnappings,
Jobless graduates etc

I will be a doctor here in the US in few months and I will say even back at home in Nigeria I was priviledeged to be from a middle class family and could always afford to come here on holidays but it broke my heart all those years seeing the contrast between the standards of living.

Anytime I go to Nigeria on holidays. I try to have fun and I also see all my friends that are doing well in business and their respective careers but the fact still remains that majority of nigerians endure suffering that many US citizens see in movies or on CNN

The system is in shambles.
Let me ask the comfortable nigerians some questions:

1. How do you feel driving in your vehicles and seeing a boy your sons age trying to sell to you under the scorching sun? Just another day in lagos eh? your hearts are hardenend so much so that its now a norm.

2. have you been to the public hospitals and check out the infrastructure? sorry i forgot you use private clinics. Most nigerians cannot even afford to pay registration fee for the hospitals. some cannot even afford transportation to the hospital and they die.

3. Do you pay your regular toll to the police officers at every checkpoint? (bribe)

4. What is the average time for picking up a body killed trying to cross the road? My last visit to lagos I saw two bodies in the last stages of total decomposition on public streets and kids see these sights too.

5. Have you experienced the traffic menace constituted by the "yellow devils" that leads to endless hours on the roads. You are probably used to it.

These are the few i observed in my breif visit in 2005.


The problem is the system is broken and a few Nigerians getting ahead doesnt take away the problem. I personally don't do well seeing the number of women and children suffering. The number of comfortable nigerians if negligible when compared to the nigerians suffering.

This is not about how much money you make but dignity and decency for human life. This is widely accessible in the US and scarcely seen in nigeria. Inconclusion my answer to the question is Life is better here a million times over judging by these parameters.

Like someone on this thread rigthfully said: "A country that pays a policeman 7000naira ($60) a month and gives him a gun is set for anarchy'

life can be better wherever you are as long as you're determined!

@Mrlawng

Well said. I have those same shameful memories of dead bodies on the streets in Aba. Some people say they were thieves burnt on the spot, some say they were in a fight, some same they were innocent bystanders. It is a total disregard for human life . I am not sure why i am arguing with Mr. Akolawole, please let Nigerians in Nigeria stay where you are, and Nigerian in the diaspora stay where you are. But please we should all try and stop this crimes against children on our streets and cities.

Is life really better abroad?

Well, it all boils down to individual people. What I see as 'better' might be different from your own perception of that same thing.

In the mean time, why don't y'all do something positive for Nigeria?

This question just sound like say them dey ask me sleep or death which one I preffer . First ask yourself who/how many people you know have gone back for good to Nigeria since you came to America/abroad? Do we all miss home? hell yeeh, do we love home? sure! morethan anywhere in the world! is life in Abroad easy? Hell NO! do we preffer it to Naija? hell yeeh! and to answer your question to the best of my knowledge! YES, life (for me) is way way way way better here in America than in Nigeria! As far as I'm concern, even an illegal immigrant is living a better life than most GOOD paying workers in Nigeria! here atleast the government knows you exist! who give sh**t about you in Nigeria? Life in abroad has it good, bad, and ugly side but overall, its better here than Naija! PERIOD!

From my own point of view, life is better abroad. Our leaders can't be bothered about the nobodies,if you are not known in the society, then you are not reckoned with,the only thing they know how to do is to camouflage , whereas abroad its the other way round,talk about electricity,water good roads and so on,as long as you can work, you'll get whatever you want,but in Nigeria, where is the work?.The cheapest thing abroad is food, and an adage says if hunger is sorted in poverty,then poverty is finished. the most expensive thing in Nigeria is food.So how can we say life is beter in Nigeria? Its honestly not.

i feel you prince

Prince

You can speak for me on this topic from here on. You have broken it down. I like the "PERIOD" at the end.

Here is a sample of bills that the average persons pays here a month,

Rent/Mortgage
Car
Cable TV
Water
Gas
Electric
Medical Insurance
Life Insurance - optional
Car Insurance - mandatory in most states
Phone/Cell  Bill
- My US folks please add,

DONT U WANNA PAY FOR ANYTHING ? na wa for u o

u pay tax for good roads, quality health service, security,

@Everyone

Abroad is better than nigeria!

Its unfotunate that we didnt take the factors one-by-one.
Medical,Education,transport etc


Can we start with : Is all countries outside nigeria abroad?

I could remember a very good friend of mine who was cajoled to leave a very good job in Nigeria for a "greener" pasture in south africa.
It was rumoured then that they pay $180 an hour in South africa. He packed his bag and jet to J/Bourg.

After so much hassles, he end up being a self-employed popcorn seller. He cannot even send a penny to his family.He saw hell.

i think when they say abroad, they mean US and UK

Europe,USA and Canada is what i think of when you say abroad.

Its not a question of whether I don't want to pay for anything, I do pay for those and some more.
The point I was trying to illustrate is that people make the money here, but there is so much that
one has to pay that at the at end of the day the mind boggling figure may not matter much after all.

Please add daycare to the list - that is about $400 to $1000/month per child depending on one's
pocket and what the daycare center has to offer.

As been said before, one can only state their preference given their present and past experiences
living in Nigeria or Abroad (US) - there isn't a universal answer.

Iyke

Biko do not forget Internet, Cell Phone/Home Phones, Lawn/Landscape services ETC.

Iyke-D:

Its not a question of whether I don't want to pay for anything, I do pay for those and some more.
The point I was trying to illustrate is that people make the money here, but there is so much that
one has to pay that at the at end of the day the mind boggling figure may not matter much after all.

Please add daycare to the list - that is about $400 to $1000/month per child depending on one's
pocket and what the daycare center has to offer.

As been said before, one can only state their preference given their present and past experiences
living in Nigeria or Abroad (US) - there isn't a universal answer.

Thanks Iyke_D

Living abroad is great but at a great expense.

To look at the whole picture, life is better abroad than Nigeria. I lived in Nigeria for decades, and though it was an idyllic childhood, nevertheless, I faced some challenges too. The educational system is in shambles and it took me more than four years to graduate from college. Over here in yankee where I am a graduate student, I had no idea of some of the basic classes that I was enrolled in, so it was a double effort to make sure that I was well acquainted with the course work. Where in Naija do you buy textbooks when you rely on handouts from lecturers? I work here, pay my fees as well as my living expenses. I am not complaining. I can afford some luxuries here, whereas back home, it was my parents who provided for me. So, I would choose Yankee's education over Nigeria. I graduated in the communications field, yet, I wasnt taught on how to write a press release!!!

Now, on the social scene, you cant compare Nigeria to America. America, despite the plethora of entertainments vis a vis theme parks, televisions, shows, movie theatres, concers, life can be boring, especially on weekends. There is a wall of silence that exists between neighbours here. It is better out here in California, where some people are as sunny as the weather, but in the east coast, people there can be cold. I stepped into an elevator in my aunt's building and proceeded to say Hello to this black woman and she thought I was strange or something. I couldnt even summon the courage to tell my aunt of that incident. And you hear of loneliness in America, exacerbated by the growing alienation between parents and kids, due to family feuds, finances, work schedule. Seniors live by themselves, unless for those who can afford a live in servant. So, loneliness is a drawback for me. I went shopping and saw an elderly man crossing the road. He told me his age (have forgotten, either seventies or eighties) and then lamented his woes to me. Lost his wife, and then his adult son, some years ago. He lives alone and does shopping by himself. And he was hit by a car when he was coming back from shopping. Tell me, in Nigeria, which elderly person has ever gone to the market to shop? There are servants or relatives to assist in such duties.

So, there is no society that is perfect. Regarding education and job stability, electricity, and all the basic comforts, America is it, but pschologically and socially, I wont trade Nigeria's scene for the American scene.

Now, tell me, why is it that when there is a Nigerian party, our people flock to that party?

You guys are a funny lot, contesting living abroad to Naija. If i have the opportunity to live in the USA or Canada, i will nt mind working for $5 an Hour.

As a legal immigrant in the U.S you have got rights and the police can't really be mean to you, but here were you are sopposed to be a first rate citizen, bro the police here will pick you up in the day light and charge you for a crime you know noughting of.

And we have a president that fills his GOD himself

This country is f, ked through and through.

And by the way you guys should watch the way you use the word abroad cos i won't be catch dead in bolivia for any reason.