I would like to respectfully discuss the question of tolerance in Islam. My personal feeling is that the very fact that NL had to open a section reserved for muslims is very telling. To be very honest, any discerning person should recognize that that fact alone is worrisome. It indicates that people are generally wary of the adherents of this religion. That, my friends, is not healthy for your religion.

Do you not think that you need to very sincerely meditate on this issue. It is critical, if you wish to live peacefully in a heterogenuos society and world, that you open yourselves to basic freedoms enjoyed as fundamental rights everywhere in the world.

Can we openly, fairly discuss these in Islam -

1. Freedom of Speech

2. Freedom of Religion, Thought and Conscience

We can take these two only.

As I understand that non-muslims are not to post on this board, save with the permissive discretion of the mods (which again is very telling) I will discuss this with maximum respect, but also with maximum honesty.

Let me just say that if this thread is locked just because we seek to discuss this issue, that would truly be poetic: because it would underscore the very point being raised here.

Cheers.

Deep Sight: I would like to respectfully discuss the question of tolerance in Islam. My personal feeling is that the very fact that NL had to open a section reserved for muslims is very telling. To be very honest, any discerning person should recognize that that fact alone is worrisome. It indicates that people are generally wary of the adherents of this religion. That, my friends, is not healthy for your religion.

Wary? On an annonymous site like this? I think this sort of propagaanda is very shallow and seems to have been repeated over and over again make me wonder whether brain washing does not subtlu occur on NL and believe me I mean no insults, but we remain surprised whenever people who have witness very anti-Islamic threads on NL make strange claims that people are wary or Islam when every now and then we are being attacked by mannerless individuals who are never "wary" to make their opinions of islam known. It remains funny that actions taken by NL owner can now be interpreted to be actions taken Islam, now we keep hearing oh seun was threatened oh he was bla bla so now the actions taken bu certain individual or s has suddenly be interpreted as Islam issuing threats we asked why this shallow reduction of common sense? Did we as Muslims on NL issue the threat? So whatever decision taken by seun can be seen as administrative decision that lies on his hand. Let me tell u certain facts that u might not know there are possibly hundreds of such sites like NL, I know sunni sites like these where u see shias freely expressing their opinions and likewise shia sites like these where the reverse also occur, and in some cases the views are not the type each party takes likely yet it does not come down to threat or so on, hence we could say possibly the situation of NL is very much unique to our context in Nigeria and maybe u should visit 2go were people do far worse . . . Is it logical to judge Islam based on NL? I leave it to u to answer.

Deep Sight:
Do you not think that you need to very sincerely meditate on this issue. It is critical, if you wish to live peacefully in a heterogenuos society and world, that you open yourselves to basic freedoms enjoyed as fundamental rights everywhere in the world.

Maybe u are not familiar with Islamic history where Islam provided full freedom to people of different faiths, and remeber what really constitute "basic" freedom is debatable? Look at France where sarkozy is trying to deprive muslims of eating meat that is done according to their religious rites. Freedom has a context and it is not how the west has decided to define it that makes it anymore basic as these matters apparently becomes subjective as it is subject to human interpretations.

Deep Sight:
Can we openly, fairly discuss these in Islam -

1. Freedom of Speech

Islam permits free speech and rights to express ones opinion on subject, but limits it when it cannot be of benefit to the society take freedom to slander other people, no one will be happy if they are slandered likewise Islam would not guarantee such rights thta very much a wrong. In addition Islam does not permit blasphemy where people go in their way to insult God.

Deep Sight:
2. Freedom of Religion, Thought and Conscience


We can take these two only.

Islam guarantees freedom of religion, thought and conscience. You will never hear of an inquisition in Islamic countries, as it is not the business of the govt to know what its citizens think etc.

Deep Sight:
As I understand that non-muslims are not to post on this board, save with the permissive discretion of the mods (which again is very telling) I will discuss this with maximum respect, but also with maximum honesty.

Let me just say that if this thread is locked just because we seek to discuss this issue, that would truly be poetic: because it would underscore the very point being raised here.

Cheers.

Lol! You politicking is very hilarious, there are rules in this section, this rules are to promote sensible discourse not the sort that logicmind does making u wonder whether we are not being exposed to a serial killer. If the thread is locked common sense would tell anyone that the MOD has done his own part of the subjective thinking and his actions should be seen as his action . I remember last year or 2010 when mudley accused jesoul of bias etc why did u say oh she has indicted christianity? Until we can judge things based on credible criteria, we will be a long way from ever being truful.

Many thanks for your comments.

vedaxcool:

Wary? On an annonymous site like this? I think this sort of propagaanda is very shallow and seems to have been repeated over and over again make me wonder whether brain washing does not subtlu occur on NL and believe me I mean no insults, but we remain surprised whenever people who have witness very anti-Islamic threads on NL make strange claims that people are wary or Islam when every now and then we are being attacked by mannerless individuals who are never "wary" to make their opinions of islam known. It remains funny that actions taken by NL owner can now be interpreted to be actions taken Islam, now we keep hearing oh seun was threatened oh he was bla bla so now the actions taken bu certain individual or s has suddenly be interpreted as Islam issuing threats we asked why this shallow reduction of common sense? Did we as Muslims on NL issue the threat? So whatever decision taken by seun can be seen as administrative decision that lies on his hand. Let me tell u certain facts that u might not know there are possibly hundreds of such sites like NL, I know sunni sites like these where u see shias freely expressing their opinions and likewise shia sites like these where the reverse also occur, and in some cases the views are not the type each party takes likely yet it does not come down to threat or so on, hence we could say possibly the situation of NL is very much unique to our context in Nigeria and maybe u should visit 2go were people do far worse . . . Is it logical to judge Islam based on NL? I leave it to u to answer.

Okay.

Islam permits free speech and rights to express ones opinion on subject, but limits it when it cannot be of benefit to the society take freedom to slander other people, no one will be happy if they are slandered likewise Islam would not guarantee such rights thta very much a wrong. In addition Islam does not permit blasphemy where people go in their way to insult God.

Is it allowed for a Christian perhaps to preach his religion freely and openly in Saudi Arabia?

If not, why?

Islam guarantees freedom of religion, thought and conscience.

Is it permitted for a muslim to renounce Islam?

Concise answers please.

Thank you.

Deep Sight:
Many thanks for your comments.



Okay.



Is it allowed for a Christian perhaps to preach his religion freely and openly in Saudi Arabia?

If not, why?

No, and because the Saudi interpretation of Islamic law takes it to be such.

Deep Sight:
Is it permitted for a muslim to renounce Islam?

Yes. By renounce I take it to mean leave islam.

I would like to respectfully discuss the question of tolerance in Islam. My personal feeling is that the very fact that NL had to open a section reserved for muslims is very telling. To be very honest, any discerning person should recognize that that fact alone is worrisome. It indicates that people are generally wary of the adherents of this religion. That, my friends, is not healthy for your religion.

the good thing to do would have been to ask for the genesis of this. Many people dig their own graves by such acts as this, making conclusions from what they have no knowledge of.

As I understand that non-muslims are not to post on this board, save with the permissive discretion of the mods (which again is very telling) I will discuss this with maximum respect, but also with maximum honesty.

Another wrong assumption. many atheists and christians have been posting here. People who aim to torment trouble and speak ills of the prophet get their posts deleted. they get warnings and bans if they desist.
If guarding what is yours, preventing it from slander and blasphemy means intolerance, So be it. I wonder if u'll pat the man who insults ur folks at the back rather than making him see sense so he doesnt do it again. The fact that you accord ur so called holy book no respect doesnt mean we shouldnt ours. Your Jesus can be spoken with in any ways and because you care less, u gave it a cover, freedom of expression and we are to follow suit??

let me just say that if this thread is locked just because we seek to discuss this issue, that would truly be poetic: because it would underscore the very point being raised here.

you are being unnecessarily cynical. that is very childish, I must say.


I assume it isnt too hard to see that the term, freedom of speech is relative. if a man can be jailed for insulting a Queen, what more of insulting a prophet of God. the least we can have in such a case is a section for Muslims an if you want yours, simply demand it.

deols:

the good thing to do would have been to ask for the genesis of this. Many people dig their own graves by such acts as this, making conclusions from what they have no knowledge of.

I heard it was about someone threatening the admin, but I guess you could brief me better?

Another wrong assumption. many atheists and christians have been posting here. People who aim to torment trouble and speak ills of the prophet get their posts deleted. they get warnings and bans if they desist.
If guarding what is yours, preventing it from slander and blasphemy means intolerance, So be it. I wonder if u'll pat the man who insults ur folks at the back rather than making him see sense so he doesnt do it again. The fact that you accord ur so called holy book no respect doesnt mean we shouldnt ours. Your Jesus can be spoken with in any ways and because you care less, u gave it a cover, freedom of expression and we are to follow suit??

Please dont mis-understand me or make assumptions - I am not a Christian.

you are being unnecessarily cynical. that is very childish, I must say.


I assume it isnt too hard to see that the term, freedom of speech is relative. if a man can be jailed for insulting a Queen, what more of insulting a prophet of God. the least we can have in such a case is a section for Muslims an if you want yours, simply demand it.

Do you think it is proper to ban people from preaching about their beliefs in this age?

Thanks.

LOL, are we (moderators) so bothersome that people are taking turns to create these sort of threads? It shows that most Nairalanders are not used to FIRM moderation on forums. There are many forums that mirror our moderating style and these are based not only on Islam but on a wide variety of topics. Rules are meant to be enforced and obeyed. In fact, I state here boldly that it is this same lack of discipline that many Nairalanders have that is killing Nigeria at the moment.

Got to sleep, Good Night!

Deep Sight:

I heard it was about someone threatening the admin, but I guess you could brief me better?



Please dont mis-understand me or make assumptions - I am not a Christian.



Do you think it is proper to ban people from preaching about their beliefs in this age?

Thanks.

apologies. I did exactly what I told u not to.

maclatunji: LOL, are we (moderators) so bothersome that people are taking turns to create these sort of threads? It shows that most Nairalanders are not used to FIRM moderation on forums. There are many forums that mirror our moderating style and these are based not only on Islam but on a wide variety of topics. Rules are meant to be enforced and obeyed. In fact, I state here boldly that it is this same lack of discipline that many Nairalanders have that is killing Nigeria at the moment.

Got to sleep, Good Night!

you're being dishonest here. Read the first thread, the problem isnt the moderators adherence to the rules but the fact that islam having a secluded section is itself a testament to its own intolerance. I notice virtually every muslim here is dodging the clear fact that this section was created by the owner SOLELY to protect his own life as he had been physically threatened for months by MUSLIMS on this very board who cried themselves hoarse about how "peaceful" islam is. It is a horrible shame to note that in the 7 yrs this board has been existing, the only negative issue has been the violent attitude of muslims to others and their need to silence those who would speak the unpalatable truth about islam.
No one has a thread complaining about JeSoul for example... she enforces the rules there and most abide by it. Sorry the problem isnt indiscipline. If muslims want a separate section then so be it. The likes of tbaba1234 should however spare us the sickening hypocrisy of being able to post on his secluded islamist island while also having the gall to post in the general religion section.

^Scream all you want, rules are rules and are meant to be obeyed.

maclatunji: ^Scream all you want, rules are rules and are meant to be obeyed.

no one is screaming dude. You;re just a volunteer moderator of an online forum, relax on the ego tripping.

^^

maclatunji: ^Scream all you want, rules are rules and are meant to be obeyed.

no offense dav the truth always comes out bitter

vedaxcool: ^^

no offense dav the truth always comes out bitter

Which "truth"? The fact and truth that some muslism here on nairaland have threatened to harm Seun before, so much so that he had to create a separate section for muslims?. . .Islam is peace only that people are always threatened with violence in one way or the other when they dare go against it. . .

^
Can we likewise say you claiming that electricity was invented is a atheism speaking? And atheism spreads ignorance?

vedaxcool: ^
Can we likewise say you claiming that electricity was invented is a atheism speaking? And atheism spreads ignorance?

Enough with the electricity and coffee inventions.


Fact remains that Islam has problems with free speech. Infact, christianity and Judaism have problems with free speech too. Islam is just the strictest.

vedaxcool: ^
Can we likewise say you claiming that electricity was invented is a atheism speaking? And atheism spreads ignorance?

Just as we can claim that coffee is a scientific invention of islam as claimed by your buddy with your support is islam speaking no?. . .Your religion is the one with the problem, muslims all over the world are always killing and threatening to kill any body that speaks against their religion. . .The problem is with your religion. . .

davidylan:

no one is screaming dude. You;re just a volunteer moderator of an online forum, relax on the ego tripping.

There isnt any better description than this.

The dude is just everywhere acting up, like someone who has just been elevated to a supreme post.

Smh

vedaxcool: ^
Can we likewise say you claiming that electricity was invented is a atheism speaking? And atheism spreads ignorance?

A simple yes or no would simply answer this question, but in a mind where electricity was invented and a armed robber would have to chant armed robber armed robber for us to be able to rightly identify him would this question be gordian knot to crack. It seems NL atheist really are the intellectually weak or how else can we explain the above phenomenon.

vedaxcool:

A simple yes or no would simply answer this question, but in a mind where electricity was invented and a armed robber would have to chant armed robber armed robber for us to be able to rightly identify him would this question be gordian knot to crack. It seems NL atheist really are the intellectually weak or how else can we explain the above phenomenon.

Hey, dont insult all atheists because one made a blunder.

Should I use any mistake that Tbaba made to generalise about NL muslims?


btw please address my latest thread;

https://www.nairaland.com/933858/real-top-5-false-things

OBJ to IBB:

"Do NOT ARGUE WiTH A FOOL Lest u Become ONE and argue with a FOOL So that he does not think himself WIse"
Obj na bad guy, at his age! Lol