Ptolomeus: We pull the same thing, right?
Please read something other than the Bible ... sometimes positive. . . . .

Please continue in your ignorance and, most probably, deliberate dishonesty as well.

Enigma:


I will answer only this question from you on this thread; I was heavily tempted not to answer but have chosen to do so solely for reasons of my own.

1. As for Christians who may be confused about "The Trinity", I will advise them to study the Bible carefully; learn, read up on and understand and not be/remain ignorant of important doctrines of the historic Church.

2. As to the point about "dishonesty" ---- I have referred to three things: (a) ignorance, (b) intellectual dishonesty, and (c) intellectual fraud.

Would like to ask you if you regard "(a) ignorance, (b) intellectual dishonesty, and (c) intellectual fraud" as the only possible reasons that a person may disagree with the trinity doctrine. But I note that you have allotted me only one question and may not be inclined to respond. Thank you, kind sir. Good evening.

Enigma: ^^^

Ask yourself why Jesus called Himself "The Almighty".

Rev 1:8

So in ur head u feel verse 8 of revelation chapter 1 refers to Jesus

For ur info that verse 8 refers strictly to Yahweh....he is only almighty...

U forgot to read verse5 and 6 of that chapter...
Let me quote it for u..
Revelation 1:5 and 6

English Standard Version (ESV)
5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness,
the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of
kings on earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our
sins by his blood 6 and made us a kingdom,
priests to his God and Father, to him be glory
and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

...........................................

5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful
witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the
ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our
sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a
kingdom and priests to serve his God and
Father —to him be glory and power for ever
and ever! Amen.


......

I wonder if d almighty has a Father and God

Can u please answer?

We could go on and on in this.....

.....
These might be d problems

1...It is either d bible has been tampered with overtime of which I'm sure of,that is why these confusions are ensuing...

2.....God forbid but from the whole trinity dogma we can conclude that Jesus was either a liar or he suffered from memory loss or was drunk for telling us that his Father is greater than he is(there is nothing as clear as those words from Jesus himself) while he was d Father and then almighty @ d same time....


Note::If thomas called Jesus God did his other apostles call him that??

U are asking why Jesus didn't stop him,?

1 thing Jesus never did was wanted worship for himself just as u guys are pushing it to him....


If Jesus was God he wouldn't go around making people guess if he was..

He would have told people to worship him,something Yahweh always told d isrealites....

If there is 1 thing God is known for its for his jealous nature.....
He always commanded he exclusive devotion and he always told d isrealites that he is God.....

But was that d case with Jesus

Jesus even told d pharisees he was son of God but they said he said he was God himself...

Jesus never opened his mouth to say ""I am God and I deserve worship"""

Never ever!!!!!

Jesus even could make d same statement @ deutronomy saying"" Yahweh our God is 1 God""

What else do we need??

Revelations 1:8 applies strictly to Yahweh and not Jesus....

If Jesus is almighty then there is some1 almightier than he is ,and that is Yahweh.

^^^



God The Father Himself referred to The Son as God.

Hebrews 1:8

But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

^ ^ ^ There are clearly reasons why informed and honest poeple could have genuine concerns about the scriptural basis of the Trinity. However I am informed by Enigma that the only reasons for doubting the doctrine are - (a) ignorance, (b) intellectual dishonesty, and (c) intellectual fraud.

I find that an amazing statement. Very presumptuous, judgmental and autocratic. Would have loved to discuss such a statement but the good fella has jumped on his exalted horse and so discussion is closed.

Life's hard, init?

Enigma:

Please continue in your ignorance and, most probably, deliberate dishonesty as well.

Let's see.
I've put up here call me satanist, heretic, ignorant, but you call me dishonest is something I will not allow.
You are an idiot and illiterate fan does not entitle you to call me dishonest. I will ask that from now on again, watch your expressions with me. I have a course that will exacerbate their fanaticism, blind him, and in the absence of arguments comes the insult, because you education and common sense. Instead of reading the Bible, you should go back to school to learn education.
Once that clarification step to answer.
Lord dishonest and rude.
If you say that Jesus is God, be faithful because it is a spiritualist religion and worship the spirit of the dead is something they do animistic religions.

Now, I advise you to return to school, study education, and drink plenty of milk, as for a whippersnapper like you to call me dishonest, should grow much yet.
Greetings, Mr. animist.

Ptolomeus:

Let's see.
I've put up here call me satanist, heretic, ignorant, but you call me dishonest is something I will not allow.
You are an idiot and illiterate fan does not entitle you to call me dishonest. I will ask that from now on again, watch your expressions with me. I have a clear his fanatrismo exacerbates it, you blind, and in the absence of arguments comes the insult, because you education and common sense. Instead of reading the Bible, you should go back to school to learn education.
Once that clarification step to answer.
Lord dishonest and rude.
If you say that Jesus is God, be faithful because it is a spiritualist religion and worship the spirit of the dead is something they do animistic religions.

Now, I advise you to return to school, study education, and drink plenty of milk, as for a whippersnapper like you to call me dishonest, should grow much yet.
Greetings, Mr. animist.

Yes, let's see indeed.

1. You insult me by asking me to read something other than the Bible. That is very daft of you; extremely daft.

2. You spread falsehood here. I am entitled to point out that you are spreading falsehood. At first, perhaps ignorantly; but if after being given better information, you continue to spread the falsehood, then it is reasonable to suspect you of deliberate dishonesty because of some pathetic agenda of yours.

3. You now call me an illiterate! And you do not have enough sense to see how verily daft that is!

Enigma:

Yes, let's see indeed.

1. You insult me by asking me to read something other than the Bible. That is very daft of you; extremely daft.

2. You spread falsehood here. I am entitled to point out that you are spreading falsehood. At first, perhaps ignorantly; but if after being given better information, you continue to spread the falsehood, then it is reasonable to suspect you of deliberate dishonesty because of some pathetic agenda of yours.

3. You now call me an illiterate! And you do not have enough sense to see how verily daft that is!

You see, sir undesirable.
You started with the insults, showing that their religion is poorly educated people. That entitles me to call him illiterate, poorly educated, and certainly dishonest, (exactly as you called me). Sorry that your hatred, bigotry and inability to deal with an issue with education lead him to this.
Personally I cuncluido the theme, you do not have level or deserves to be treated as a person.
Its mud splatters.
Pray a lot and drink plenty of milk ..

Whatever!

You already have my advice: continue in your ignorance or deliberate dishonesty.


Next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, on the subject of honesty or dishonesty, let us take a case:


Enigma cited the following scripture -

Hebrews 1:8

But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

What he failed to do (which would have been honest and proper) is to point out that the scripture above is a quotation from Psalm 45:6. Any reading of Psalm 45 shows that it has no reference to Jesus. It talks about an earthly king described as the most excellent of men and greatly blessed by God. It talks in verse 6 about the eternity of the throne of God. It says, your throne, o God , is forever. This says nothing about Jesus, not to speak about saying anything about Jesus being God. But I will not argue this. I will simply paste the whole of Psalm 45 here and anybody can see for himself what the truth about that verse is.

Psalm 45
45 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

3 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.

4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.

5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.

6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

8 All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.

9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

10 Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house;

11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him.

12 And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift; even the rich among the people shall intreat thy favour.

13 The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold.

14 She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee.

15 With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace.

16 Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth.

17 I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.

Now, any person is free to read the above for himself and see if this refers to Jesus as God, or if it even refers to Jesus at all.

I must very carefully add that I am tempted not to respond at all, but I only do so, and only once, for personal reasons.

What a laugh.

A demonstration of why some types of people are simply best ignored


1. Previously posted here: https://www.nairaland.com/497445/trinity-doctrine-invented-council-meeting/2#6979732

I might as well add this post from elsewhere [/b]here as well.

According to the author of Hebrews God was speaking to and of the Son in Psalm 45:6. And what did God say to/of the Son? [b]God called the Son God!

Hebrews 1:8

But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

If God the Father thinks and says that the Son is God and so calls Him God, oh boy do I agree with God the Father!

And guess who was the chief antagonist on that thread?



2. And even before then, previously posted here: https://www.nairaland.com/531625/evidence-deity-christ/2#6979524


3. Oh, by the way any genuinely intelligent and honest person can easily see that the author of Hebrews applied Psalm 45 to Jesus ------- as I had already pointed out on two previous occasions.


4. And speak of pot calling (electric) kettle black --- would it not have been an easy exercise to quote all the relevant bits of Hebrews 1? Dishonesty, much?

@enigma....

The hebrews ur quoting still tells u that Jesus has a God....

Since ur thinking is stereo typed to think Yahweh called Jesus God verse 9 of heb®ews 1 still says and Í quote""THAT IS WHY GOD THY GOD""

How many Gods do we have

Like deÉp sight said that verse is an exact extract from psalm chapter 45....

The 2 elohims mentioned there can't mean d same..
.
Does elohim always mean God
And mind u in psalms david was the one speaking not Yahweh...

Apostle paul was doing a requote of psalms...

How would Ya hweh annoint his fellow??
Does it make sense??

One person is higher than the other that is why one is anointing and the other anointed....

And if u look carefully Jesus was made great amongst his brothers,his contemporaries...

Yahweh,almighty God has no brothers nor contemporaries,not even his son is equal to him....

^^^ You need to go and read up; in this kind of situation I tend to recommend starting with "consubstantiality"; you can start from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consubstantiality

What I notice is that you don't really understand what it means to say: The Father is God AND Jesus is God AND the Holy Spirit is God.

This of course would then mean that you really do not understand the Trinity doctrine.

Finally, I do not wish to force you or convince you to believe the doctrine. It is entirely up to you to satisfy yourself about what you believe.

Hebrews 1:3

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

^^^ Bros, I thought you allotted me only one response? You are in generous spirits today, I must say.

The fact simply remains that Paul stated that "Of the son, God said. . ." - Paul is either ignorant or deliberately lying, because Psalm 45 clearly says no such thing. I can't shout, I posted the whole of Psalm 45 up there, and any genuinely intelligent and honest person can see that Psalm 45 says NO SUCH THING.

Stop peddling silly lies while laying claim to a high horse the height of which does not exceed that of a poodle. You have no idea how pitifully ridiculous you appear in doing so.

Enigma: ^^^ You need to go and read up; in this kind of situation I tend to recommend starting with "consubstantiality"; you can start from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consubstantiality

What I notice is that you don't really understand what it means to say: The Father is God AND Jesus is God AND the Holy Spirit is God.

This of course would then mean that you really do not understand the Trinity doctrine.

Finally, I do not wish to force you or convince you to believe the doctrine. It is entirely up to you to satisfy yourself about what you believe.

Consubstantiality ko, consubstantiality ni. Nonsense.

Deep Sight: ^^^ Bros, I thought you allotted me only one response? You are in generous spirits today, I must say. . . .

I just wanted to show up your idiocy --- once again

And of course, the subtlety in my post is lost on you --- as usual; the unstated thing in that post which you are too thick to discern is that I should not even have replied your first question at all; (though I achieved my aim with the response). It is just not worth it in your case.

Waste of time as already pointed out twice on this thread.

Finally, take the same advice I gave the other fellow: continue in your ignorance and/or deliberate dishonesty.

ijawkid: @enigma....

Like deÉp sight said that verse is an exact extract from psalm chapter 45....

- - - And Psalm 45 SAYS NO SUCH THING!

Perhaps Enigma is following in the lying footsteps of "Saint" Paul. . .

Deep Sight:

ijawkid:
---
Like deÉp sight said that verse is an exact extract from psalm chapter 45....

- - - And Psalm 45 SAYS NO SUCH THING!

Perhaps Enigma is following in the lying footsteps of "Saint" Paul. . .

Enigma:

I just wanted to show up your idiocy --- once again

And of course, the subtlety in my post is lost on you --- as usual; the unstated thing in that post which you are too thick to discern is that I should not even have replied your first question at all; (though I achieved my aim with the response). It is just not worth it in your case.

Waste of time as already pointed out twice on this thread.

Finally, take the same advice I gave the other fellow: continue in your ignorance and/or deliberate dishonesty.

Of course, you have long made heavy weather of the fact that I am not worth speaking to. Yet you have here allotted me one response and so far could not resist three? And you talk about i[/i]diocy? My boy, you an unintelligent clown who believes ridiculous mythical piffle simply because you have an inferiority complex for the white man. Your posts are nonsensical, you have a pathetically exaggerated opinion of yourself given the extreme poverty of your intellect, and worst of all the way you childishly pose like some primadonna just makes you apear like a bitter gossiping [i]petty woman.

Go sleep joor. Olodo.

Deep Sight:

Of course, you have long made heavy weather of the fact that I am not worth speaking to. Yet you have here allotted me one response and so far could not resist three? And you talk about i[/i]diocy? My boy, you an unintelligent clown who believes ridiculous mythical piffle simply because you have an inferiority complex for the white man. Your posts are nonsensical, you have a pathetically exaggerated opinion of yourselve given the poverty of your intellect, and worst of all the way you pose like some primadonna just makes you apear like a bitter gossiping [i]petty[b[b]woman.[/b]

Go sleep joor. Olodo.

Cool.

Yet you keep begging me to engage in discussion with you!

Even on this thread, do you realise how you asked me.

Enigma:

Cool.

Yet you keep begging me to engage in discussion with you!

Even on this thread, do you realise how you asked me.

Oh yes, I have been trying to help you drop your silly bitterness and grow up. Doing so would be a sign of maturity. But all my efforts have failed. I honestly dont know hopw any human being - and a supposed christian at that - can carry and sustain the level of puerile bitterness that you do - and for so long. And for no reason.

Olodo. Go sleep joor.

Thanks.

When I have time, I might pull up the several different occasions when you begged that I should discuss with you; like a little boy who wants to play with the big boys.

I will even bet you now, that you will still beg me again in future. I could easily agree, if only you would show yourself to be of integrity ---- like apologising for wrongfully accusing me of dishonesty with regard to my use of Hebrews 1:8.

However, seeing as I know now conclusively concludedly conclusively that you lack integrity, when you beg me again, you will beg in vain.

Oh, dont worry, I will pull them all up in my next post myself - and it should be obvious I was cajoling you to drop your very childish approach to things - a developnment which I would have liked to see - but which appears to be a pipe dream.

You ought to be ashamed of your petty woman-like behaviour. Infact, saying that is even an offence to women. You are worse than any female I know in terms of this ridiculous behaviour of yours. My asking you severally to kick your bitterness and engage in a discourse is actually shameful for you. It shows just how silly and childish you have always been.

Olodo. Now you have given five intensely silly responses.

Talking about being begged to chat. . .what a m.oronic Arrow. Are you 12 years old or something

Deep Sight: Oh, dont worry, I will pull them all up in my next post myself - and it should be obvious I was cajoling you to drop your very childish approach to things - a developnment which I would have liked to see - but which appears to be a pipe dream.

You ought to be ashamed of your petty woman-like behaviour. Infact, saying that is even an offence to women. You are worse than any female I know in terms of this ridiculous behaviour of yours. My asking you severally to kick your bitterness and engage in a discourse is actually shameful for you. It shows just how silly and childish you have always been.

Olodo. Now you have given five intensely silly responses.

Talking about being begged to chat. . .what a m.oronic Arrow. Are you 12 years old or something

You will still beeeeg again to discuss with me.

And I will once again laugh at you. In heat, you throw all sorts of insults at me, something you have done from day one. When you calm down, you beg me to discuss. Even me the "Arrow", (I don't think you even know what it means or how offensive it is considered --- another example of your idiotic ignorance), you will still beg again to discuss with.

Enigma:



You will still beeeeg again to discuss with me.

And I will once again laugh at you. In heat, you throw all sorts of insults at me, something you have done from day one. When you calm down, you beg me to discuss. Even me the "Arrow", (I don't think you even know what it means or how offensive it is considered --- another example of your idiotic ignorance), you will still beg again to discuss with.

YOU ARE A CAPITAL Arrow.

Go to bed. Don't worry I will find other posters to beg.

Deep Sight:

YOU ARE CAPITAL Arrow.

Go to bed. Don't worry I will find other posters to beg.

Thanks. I know you will find other posters to beg, I don't deny you that.

All I know is, you will still beg to discuss with me again in the future.

Yawn.

Deep Sight: ^^^ Bros, I thought you allotted me only one response? You are in generous spirits today, I must say.

The fact simply remains that Paul stated that "Of the son, God said. . ." - Paul is either ignorant or deliberately lying, because Psalm 45 clearly says no such thing. I can't shout, I posted the whole of Psalm 45 up there, and any genuinely intelligent and honest person can see that Psalm 45 says NO SUCH THING.

Stop peddling silly lies while laying claim to a high horse the height of which does not exceed that of a poodle. You have no idea how pitifully ridiculous you appear in doing so.

@ Deepsight i am forced to respond to your allusion here on the bolded, i would rather say you are not a believer in the words of God at all and a deceiver of the brethren, because every words as written in the bible are the mind of God and inspired only by him(II Tim 3:16). For all the words to survive generations and brought together is never the effort of any man if God has not willed. For you to say Paul was lying even when you were not born during this period shows you are deliberately ignorant or mislead in your beliefs.
I will suggest that Enigma seize to discuss with you on this issue because it shows that you are only out to paint the truth lies despite evidences posed before you. I regret if my words sounds harsh but know its in good faith.
Thanks