New research by scientists from Havard, Pennsylvania and Johns Hopkins shows that when people are having what they call "religious experiences," their brains are almost identical to those hallucinating on psychedelic drugs. The research raises the question, is God a delusion created by brain chemistry, or is brain chemistry a necessary conduit for people to reach God?



For most religious people, the most solid proof for the existence of God is their "personal experience." When asked how they know for sure that God exists, the most typical answer one would most certainly get is, "I have felt him." More often than not, it proves extremely difficult to debunk this. On this basis then, the question is asked: So, have you ever wondered whether those encounters actually happened — or whether they were all in your head? Scientists say the answer might be both.

This article presents the intriguing story of a certain Jeff Schimmel, a Jew, who never really believed in the whole God concept until he had a brain surgery where he had a tumor removed from his left temporal lobe. Shortly after this surgery, he began hearing conversations in his head, started "seeing visions" and even once "saw" what appeared to be the Virgin Mary. Upon having these experiences, he visited his neurologist and had an MRI scan. And what did they discover? His left temporal lobe had become smaller, assumed a different shape, and covered with scar tissue.

What is the implication of this, you may wonder? Well. . .

The temporal lobes run along the sides of the brain, and deep within them is something called the limbic system.
This system handles not just sound, smell and some vision but also memory and emotion.

When people have a seizure in the temporal lobe, it's as if the normal emotions have an exclamation point after them, because so many nerve cells are firing in rhythm.
People may hear snatches of music — drawn from their memory bank — and in rare cases, interpret it as music from heavenly spheres.
They may see a glimpse of light and think it's an angel.

Personally, I have often had the impression that religious and/or supernatural experiences are a result of the brain playing some tricks. I am not one of those that think that religious people are necessarily st[i]u[/i]pid because of their beliefs. I have seen professors with what I deem to be absurd beliefs. I have seen intellectuals of high repute display questionable traits in the name of spirituality. I certainly do not think that these people are st[i]u[/i]pid. I probably would never match them in intellect in my life time. However, I also strongly believe that by fiddling with a few neurons here and there, these religious experiences (speaking in tongues, talking to God, "feeling" God, seeing angels, hearing voices, etc) may be reproduced and shown to be nothing particularly extraordinary, and by implication, shown to be unreal.

Now, we may dismiss this research as yet another anti-religion conspiracy by those devilish anti-christ scientists who have sold their souls to the devil, or simply open our minds to allow the possibility, however remote, of this being a genuine revelation.

P.S. PLEASE AND PLEASE!!! I do not intend for this to be a means for the irreligious to ridicule religious people. I only seek to create an avenue for discussants to air their views concerning this purported research. Also, I do not necessarily agree with everything written in there.

[s]P.S.S. . . em, Deep Sight, this is not your own god being discussed, so erm. . sofri sofri abeg. [/s]

Link to research: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=110997741

A part of the limbic system (necleus accumbens) has been well-established to be associated with pleasure, emotion and addiction (among others)-the heavenly feeling people have when they take reacreational drugs or the sense of reward you have after investing in a Gucci bag/shoe for example. Not to forget sex.
Because the limbic system is probably the oldest part of the brain to develop, its structures have many functions as mentioned in the poster's write up. The system simply had to multi-task.

Also remember that the limbic system acts on the autonomic nervous system (fright, fight or flight regulator). If you also consider other primitive functions like mating, smell, regulating BP and heart beat and more advanced ones like building up a database of memory and processing new stimuli/information, it's not surprising that it has a profound effect on religious experience.
This does not mean that the experience itself is not real or that it is real.
Just maybe the need to be religious or believe in something/someone is a quintessential and basic human need that is almost as old as humanity itself considering that the oldest part of the brain controls it.

marabout: A part of the limbic system (necleus accumbens) has been well-established to be associated with pleasure, emotion and addiction (among others)-the heavenly feeling people have when they take reacreational drugs or the sense of reward you have after investing in a Gucci bag/shoe for example. Not to forget sex.
Because the limbic system is probably the oldest part of the brain to develop, its structures have many functions as mentioned in the poster's write up. The system simply had to multi-task.

Also remember that the limbic system acts on the autonomic nervous system (fright, fight or flight regulator). If you also consider other primitive functions like mating, smell, regulating BP and heart beat and more advanced ones like building up a database of memory and processing new stimuli/information, it's not surprising that it has a profound effect on religious experience.
This does not mean that the experience itself is not real or that it is real.
Just maybe the need to be religious or believe in something/someone is a quintessential and basic human need that is almost as old as humanity itself considering that the oldest part of the brain controls it.

Nice submission. @the bold part: Here lies the real conundrum. How does one then tell what is real and what is not? How does one define reality in this circumstance? Can we say with absolute certainty for example, that this Jewish fellow really saw the Virgin Mary?

Personally, if my brain is altered in such a way that I begin to see things that others do not see, I would have strong reasons to suspect that I am under some serious delusion.

It is only right, normal and expected, that spiritual experiences should evoke such patterns within the brain. This is because the spiritual is accessed some times via the very same neuro-paths with which the Drug Addict accesses hallucinations, or the brain accesses dreams. Let me very carefully state that this does nothing to invalidate such "spiritual" experiences, and if anything - looked at carefully, it actually offers some validation of same.

Deep Sight:
It is only right, normal and expected, that spiritual experiences should evoke such patterns within the brain. This is because the spiritual is accessed some times via the very same neuro-paths with which the Drug Addict accesses hallucinations, or the brain accesses dreams. Let me very carefully state that this does nothing to invalidate such "spiritual" experiences, and if anything - looked at carefully, it actually offers some validation of same.

But what is a "spiritual experience or what qualifies as such?
If I communicate with my ancestors in dream, would that qualify as a spiritual experience? If I take a mind-altering drug that elevates my consciousness to a different level, would that be a spiritual experience?

What about sex.ual orgasm. Would that qualify as a spiritual experience?lol
Most ancient religions consider the se.xual act as a spiritual experience. Infact, some religious rituals are actually a symbolic re-enactments of the sexu.al act.

Most importantly, how does one validate a spiritual experience? One person's spiritual experience may seem absurd or meaningless to another. So of what relevance is a spiritual experience to the individual if no else can have the same experience and make the same interpretations?

Purist:
Personally, I have often had the impression that religious and/or supernatural experiences are a result of the brain playing some tricks. . . . However, I also strongly believe that by fiddling with a few neurons here and there, these religious experiences (speaking in tongues, talking to God, "feeling" God, seeing angels, hearing voices, etc) may be reproduced and shown to be nothing particularly extraordinary, and by implication, shown to be unreal.

With respect to the bold part, I am currently reading a Dean Koontz novel, and I came across a word today for the first time -- Glossolalia.

According to Dr. William T. Samarin, professor of anthropology and linguistics at the University of Toronto,

glossolalia consists of strings of meaningless syllables made up of sounds taken from those familiar to the speaker and put together more or less haphazardly .... Glossolalia is language-like because the speaker unconsciously wants it to be language-like. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia fundamentally is not language (Nickell, 108).

When spoken by schizophrenics, glossolalia are recognized as gibberish. In charismatic Christian communities glossolalia is sacred and referred to as "speaking in tongues" or having "the gift of tongues."
Source: http://www.skepdic.com/glossol.html

[size=14pt]Scientific explanations[/size]

Scientific explanations for these physical and psychological phenomena have been suggested, including mental illness, hypnosis, and learned behavior.

(1) Neuroscience
In 2006, the brains of a group of individuals were scanned while they were speaking in tongues. Activity in the language centers of the brain decreased, while activity in the emotional centers of the brain increased. Activity in the area of control decreased. There were no changes in any language areas, suggesting that glossolalia is not associated with usual language function.

<<snip>>

(3) Hypnosis
Some kind of hypnosis or trance has often been suggested as the explanation for glossolalia. Much glossolalia takes place in heightened states, whether in Pentecostal Christian or non-Christian contexts. But glossolalia does not require a state of hypnosis or trance.
. . . .
A New Zealand researcher, Heather Kavan, found that whether a person experienced trance or hypnosis depended on the type of group with which they were affiliated. Kavan found that most New Zealand Pentecostals and Charismatics did not experience trance except during the baptism of the spirit. However, meditators in a yoga-based purification group experienced frequent intense trances, of which glossolalia was an occasional manifestation. Kavan suggested that there are two types of glossolalia– spontaneous and context-dependent– and the former is more likely to occur in groups that are radical, experiential and charismatically led.

(4) Learned behavior
. . . .

The admittedly fraudulent preacher Marjoe Gortner described in a 1977 interview how people learn glossolalia in a highly emotional religious setting.

"Tongues is something you learn," he emphasized. "It is a releasing that you teach yourself. You are told by your peers, the church, and the Bible -- if you accept it literally -- that the Holy Ghost speaks in another tongue; you become convinced that it is the ultimate expression of the spirit flowing through you. The first time maybe you'll just go dut-dut-dut-dut, and that's about all that will get out. Then you'll hear other people and next night you may go dut-dut-dut-UM-dut-DEET-dut-dut, and it gets a little better. The next thing you know, it's ela-hando-satelay-eek-condele-mosandrey-aseya ... and it's a new language you've got down."

That glossolalia can be learned is also seen in the traces left behind by teachers. An investigation by the Lutheran Medical Center in Brooklyn showed that the influence of a particular leader can shape a group's glossolalia: where certain prominent glossolalists had visited, whole groups of glossolalists would speak in his style of speech.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia#Scientific_explanations

That glossolalia can be learned is also seen in the traces left behind by teachers. An investigation by the Lutheran Medical Center in Brooklyn showed that the influence of a particular leader can shape a group's glossolalia: where certain prominent glossolalists had visited, whole groups of glossolalists would speak in his style of speech.

Sounds totally like something out of Christ Embassy.

This article examines the brain/mind and the concept of dualism/materialism in connection with the "soul".

It is well referenced. A very good read, but quite lengthy.

http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/ghost.html