ekt_bear: I like OBJ. But while his actions were probably good overall for Nigeria as a whole, I'm not sure they were great for Yorubaland specifically.

So, mixed feelings on the guy.

Katsumoto

You give OBJ too much credit. He is crafty self-serving monster.

OBJ has spent his lifetime protecting his legacy; and to that he had to ensure that those more capable than him did not get to positions of power.
He joined others in preventing Awo in 1979 and he also came up with the Interim National Government in 1993 to prevent IBB from handing over to MKO after General Ishola Williams gave IBB a final ultimatum.

In his second stint as president[b], OBJ found credible and competent ministers from other regions [/b]such as El Rufai, Ribadu, Okonjo-Iweala, Oby, Dora but could only find Yoruba dullards such as fani kayode, Aborishade. He also, notoriously found the illitrate thief, Patricia Etteh. Worse still, OBJ selected a gang of thieves and thugs for all the South Western states such as Daniel, Oyinlola, Akala, Fayose, Bode George, etc who did more damage at a regional level.

Lastly, to protect his legacy as president, he ensured that the slow and dying Yaradua as well as the cowardly and incompetent GEJ would take over from him when there were more capable hands such as Donald Duke (who I wasn't too impressed with but who nevertheless would have proven more capable than those selected by OBJ. It is no wonder that despite squandering the economic ascension that Nigeria started to reap from democracy, OBJ is still regarded as the best president Nigeria has had. What a shame when you consider that OBJ stole in excess of $16B meant for the power sector, an act that has ensured that Nigeria cannot keep up with developmental progress of other hitherto 3rd world nations.

No sir, there is little to be admired or liked about OBJ.

afam4eva: It seems some people have a problem with OBJ because he was a pro-Nigerian and not a regional bigot like Awo and co. Her may not be without stains but after Zik, I consider him the most nationalistic leader Nigeria has ever had.

ekt_bear: I like OBJ. But while his actions were probably good overall for Nigeria as a whole, I'm not sure they were great for Yorubaland specifically.

So, mixed feelings on the guy.

Katsumoto:

You give OBJ too much credit. He is crafty self-serving monster.

OBJ has spent his lifetime protecting his legacy; and to that he had to ensure that those more capable than him did not get to positions of power.
He joined others in preventing Awo in 1979 and he also came up with the Interim National Government in 1993 to prevent IBB from handing over to MKO after General Ishola Williams gave IBB a final ultimatum.

In his second stint as president, OBJ found credible and competent ministers from other regions such as El Rufai, Ribadu, Okonjo-Iweala, Oby, Dora but could only find Yoruba dullards such as fani kayode, Aborishade. He also, notoriously found the illitrate thief, Patricia Etteh. Worse still, OBJ selected a gang of thieves and thugs for all the South Western states such as Daniel, Oyinlola, Akala, Fayose, Bode George, etc who did more damage at a regional level.

Lastly, to protect his legacy as president, he ensured that the slow and dying Yaradua as well as the cowardly and incompetent GEJ would take over from him when there were more capable hands such as Donald Duke (who I wasn't too impressed with but who nevertheless would have proven more capable than those selected by OBJ. It is no wonder that despite squandering the economic ascension that Nigeria started to reap from democracy, OBJ is still regarded as the best president Nigeria has had. What a shame when you consider that OBJ stole in excess of $16B meant for the power sector, an act that has ensured that Nigeria cannot keep up with developmental progress of other hitherto 3rd world nations.

No sir, there is little to be admired or liked about OBJ.

ekt_bear: hmm

I guess I'll need to return to this thread a bit later when I have time. I still don't really agree with you guys, though

Katsumoto:

You give OBJ too much credit. He is crafty self-serving monster.

afam4eva: It seems some people have a problem with OBJ because he was a pro-Nigerian and not a regional bigot like Awo and co. Her may not be without stains but after Zik, I consider him the most nationalistic leader Nigeria has ever had.

kunlekunle: you shd realise he inherited a rotten system that required a general ovehaul.
you require economic stability before growth and before eembarking on any project. time constraint was the major factor hence his limited achievement.

check the current govt with almost 2.5B dollar bugdet for a region, one of his major problems and why he was tagged a regional leader

isale_gan2:

No worries, Ekiti Panda Bear.

Go ahead and ask your dad to reminisce about the days of OBJ from '76! Come back and break it down for us once you get the straight d.o.p.e.

Katsumoto:

You mean 8 years is not enough to provide power in Nigeria? Japan turned off all its nuclear reactors after the earthquake last year and yet it hasn't suffuered from recurring power outages. OBJ had the time and resources to do something credible.

alj harem:

LOL

smh for you.

Mighty Sparrow:
Any self acclaimed nationalist is a self deluded one no matter what age or status he is simply a fool in his own paradise.

asha 80: mighty sparrow i guess from your analysis that awo was also aspiring to be deluded since he wanted to become the president of nigeria?

Katsumoto:

I get your point but let me provide an analogy to illustrate the options Awo faced.

A man is forced at gunpoint to get into a car by two other men but as soon as he got into the car, he realized that one couldn't drive and the other was drunk. He realizes that if he was going to survive, regardless of how long the journey was going to be, he had to offer to drive the car. Driving the car would have offered many advantages

1. Getting to the destination alive
2. Steering the car to a place where he escape (such as driving by a bridge and jumping into a river)
3. Won the affection of his abductors who may have given him his freedom or reduced the cost of granting him his freedom

Even though driving did not eliminate the risks to his life, he still had some control over his life.

Awo didn't want to be president of Nigeria; he wanted to be the president of Western Nigeria but once he realized that his destiny was tied to others, he had to do something to ensure his survival. Giving the way Nigeria as been run since 1960 with many vision-less (can't drive) and corrupt (drunk) leaders, can you honestly blame Awo for trying to be president? I certainly cannot and will not.

kunlekunle: [/b]


even with his sw presidential ambition, he couldnt create a political structure which created a vacuum in political leadership in sw.

his quest for sw leadership created the saga that led to shugaba of the previous alafin,
his policies were great for the sw but creating a political tdeology for sw is my concern.

Katsumoto:

And who says that Awo did not create a structure? Once Nigeria became a unitary state in 1966, whatever structure was in place became irrelevant because selfish, corrupt, and greedy individuals with no political ideology just went to the center because that's where the power was/is. The structure was in place but it was powerless against machinations at the center. Individuals who had hitherto been well trained and smart, abandoned principles because they believed that they had to be at the center to survive. They are/were partly right but not justified. Take a look at Ebenezer Babatope and Jakande who were raised in that philosophy but who still abandoned it for selfish motives. Is Babatope not a PDP stalwart today? Adedibu and Arisekola maintained power at the local level because they were empowered at the center. The people at the local level stand no chance; they remain poor if they maintain principle or become well to do, if they bend to the dictates of those at the center.

kunlekunle:



i'll relate all quoted pple with the daniels and others, all seeving thier pockets.
Do you not realise if alafin had been the sw leader and awo PM, we solid structure would have been created that would be continuos, create an ideology for sw politicians based on sw philosophy.
probabaly a group of omoluabis (moral elites) would be the custodian of the stucture, then some cant just raise his head any how.

whats your take on monarchy+elite+democracy to create system of govt especially in africa.

Katsumoto:

Willie Sutton famously said 'because that's where the money is' when asked why he robbed banks. You can deliver whatever system you want in the SW but as long as power and money is at the center, then you are simply wasting your time because people at the regional level become dependent on the center.

Second, there are far too many kings in the SW for most to accept the Alaafin's authority, moreso because the Alaafin had lost power and influence at least over 150 years before independence. When the last Yoruba kingdoms warred, the Alaafin was a spectator.

With regards to your question about monarchy+elite+democracy, democracy is good but I do not believe in elites if they remain in office perpetually. A system that ensures the elites/senators are voted into office is good. As for a king over the SW, that idea is dead in the water. One of the reasons the Oyo empire did not make developmental headway when it was at the height of its power was because most Kings did not stay long enough to oversee periods of growth and development. One man at the top philosophy doesn't want with some groups such as the Yoruba, Igbo because others are constantly scheming to replace him but may work for other groups such as Hausa, Fulani, Kanuri who are more subservient to a perpetual lord. A president doesn't have that problem (at least in the developed world) because he/she has a defined term. Everybody lets him get on with his work knowing that his term will end.

kunlekunle:



churchil was presented with Aritotle works on ethics, he returned the book under a week, he said 'i thought through everything he said'. the guy concluded this guy had a stong traditional upbringing that reflects in his ethical values.
thats why iwas of notion of monarchy+democracy as in uk.
No prime minister can form a govt in uk without the queens consent. he would seek permission and then form his govt.
bro, democracy on its own i believe cant work hence most of these political instability in the country.
You 'll realise the quuen too has her own counsel for preservation and continuity.


when it comes to money making, you create it. thats what pdp is doing now, creating a capitalist system in the country.
check obj's wealth and other guys he created. ibb, dangote and others, boy, great wealth
if he was not back stabbed you would have seen the difference economically especially in ogun.