italo:

1Cor3:15 doesnt mention that everybody will suffer loss and be saved as through the fire.

Indeed, v14 shows that some will receive their rewards immediately, without any loss or hassles.

Mary and the Saints (known and unknown) fall into this Category.

As for the Popes, just like the rest of us, some of them are certainly Saints, the others could be Saints, in purgatory or in hell.

Maybe you can help tell us where the dead in 1Cor15:29 are.

Please can u show me dt in d scripture dt Mary and Paul didnt go to purgatory? D bible say all will be tested. Where? U said its purgatory. By d function of d Law, Mary and Paul arent pure by ur standard. D whole church was called saints in d scripture. Whether they received reward or not is another thing, d major info here is dt Mary and Paul also were in ur purgatory

italo:

If you cannot answer the question, please stop bothering me.

To help u from running away from all u r bein asked, lets assume u r correct dt 1 Cor 3:15 is purgatory (so it exist). Ar u ok?
Now We can look at my early post and apply ds too, or u can answer otherwise.

From ur claim on purgatory as d location of d fire trial, dt means Paul, Mary (ur beloved mother Mary), Ur Popes hav all been to d purgatory. If i draw further on ur believe dt d purgatory is meant to clean some sins. That means Paul, Mary, Popes hav all suffered thr becos definately no one is absolutely righteous (pure) in obeying d law.

Was Paul in purgatory?
Was Mary (ur beloved) in purgatory?
Was All ur Popes (Visible head) in purgatory?
U, how long do u think u will burn thr with d way u ar going?

italo:

If I have told a lie or misrepresented the truth, please point it out.

It seems you just want to force me to accept your personal fallible interpretation and opinion of scripture even when it doesn't make sense.

You are unable to show me where we said you must go through Mary to get to the Father...

...and you cannot show me in the Bible where Mary learnt at the feet of the apostles.

Mr, do you believe in Bible alone or are you telling me these things based on your personal oral tradition?

Was Mary part of d early church?
Was Mary d head of d early church?
Did Mary obey d instructions of d early church?

U choose ur answer, I ve got better things to talk about in scripture than d folly of exalting or praying thru Mary which a kindergarten bible student knows its lies.

Pls, i m not telling u to believe wat i told u, hold fast to watever u believ. Its ur lot.

Chuksemi: Ajayi, Thank you very much. I WILL SEND YOU A MAIL.

Ok Bro. Expecting it.

italo:

Its the easiest question in the world.

Where is 1 Cor 3:15 talking about...heaven, hell or earth?

Attempting questions is also a vital part of learning.

My teachers often started their lectures with questions - teasers. And I passed my exams.

Answer if you can, then go on to expantiate.

But if you cant answer, dont bother.

If u put in better effort to study d pretext u will kno it refered to all believers building (service to God) to be tested by fire. Dt includes Paul, Mary, Popes, u etc.

From ur claim on purgatory as d location of d fire trial, dt means Paul, Mary (ur beloved mother Mary), Ur Popes hav all been to d purgatory. If i draw further on ur believe dt d purgatory is meant to clean some sins. That means Paul, Mary, Popes hav all suffered thr becos definately no one is absolutely righteous (pure) in obeying d law.

U better be ready too because u mit burn hard.

italo:

Its the easiest question in the world.

Where is 1 Cor 3:15 talking about...heaven, hell or earth?

Attempting questions is also a vital part of learning.

My teachers often started their lectures with questions - teasers. And I passed my exams.

Answer if you can, then go on to expantiate.

But if you cant answer, dont bother.

Dt showed in all ur post. But a bad approach to d scripture. Go study bro and stop treating d scripture lik ur school materials, u ll fail excellently.

italo:

Please just tell me where 1Cor3:15 is referring to.

Heaven or hell.

Jehovah's Witness JMAN05 even says it is earth.

I have answered one million questions on this thread already.

People hardly answer mine.

Mr, d bible is not a yes or no letters. U study to know. I gave u an option for us to study all u do is give me a yes or no. Bad students do dt.

If u put in better effort to study d pretext u will kno it refered to all believers building (service to God) to be tested by fire. Dt includes Paul, Mary, Popes, u etc.

From ur claim on purgatory as d location of d fire trial, dt means Paul, Mary (ur beloved mother Mary), Ur Popes hav all been to d purgatory. If i draw further on ur believe dt d purgatory is meant to clean some sins. That means Paul, Mary, Popes hav all suffered thr becos definately no one is absolutely righteous (pure) in obeying d law.

U better be ready too because u mit burn hard.

italo:

Show me where we claimed we are to beg Mary to Jesus so that we can have access to the Father.


...that she learned at the apostles' feet. Prove it from the Bible.


All I know is that Jesus who is God always obeyed Mary. He even went as far as granting her request when it wasnt the appointed time for him to reveal his glory.


You say Mary is just like other women, nothing special.

The Holy Spirit says: blessed are you among women.

I will believe the Holy Spirit, not you.

u got me hav a feeling dt u dont study ur bible, u only hold to wat u r told and d lifted scripture given to u. U asked for honestly, u really need to do d same wit urself. D issue of Mary is so clear and explicit in d scripture yet u prefered holding to doctrine of men above wat d scripture says.

Thr is no need for argument here wit u because i ve seen dt u ar just adamant to ur hold irrespective of wat d bible has to say.
Mary was part of d early church which had leaders (Apostles) dt tot they. Mary was never given any special recognition than others. Her name was as silent as Magdalene name in d epistles.

U believe in d Holy Spirit? dt same Spirit tells u dt we are new creations (In Christ), changed lineage, changed parents, no more after d flesh but d spirit. i m struggling to believ u really kno d Spirit u believe whether it's HolySpirit.

Chuksemi: First of all, I have tried to get answers to this questions about christianity all to no avail. I really dont want to do something un-reasonable. Here are the questions bothering me. 1> Is God really all-knowing? If he is, that means he knows what we will become, he knows our future. If thats the case, then we are programmed to become whatever we become in this world, we really dont have a choice as to what we are or who we will become. 2> what makes our african Gods bad? Why do we have to abandon our own Gods for the white man's God. When christ came, he came to isreal. God even called them his choosen people. Are we not just forcing our selves on the white man's God. What is the difference? 3> Sometimes, I am tempted to doubt the bible, the story of the tower of babel is an example of a faith wavering story. How could people build a house that will pass through the cloud and the sun and wherever till it gets to heaven? Even the story of the ark that survived the flood is still some how, a ship the size described in the bible made of only wood cannot survive on water for a day. 4> Did God really create the earth in six days? Or was it six thousand years. Since, I believe he was the one that told moses the story of adam and eve. He may have called it days, meanwhile we all know that a day to him is a thousand years to us. Please I need honest answers.

Chuksemi,

I really love ur honesty and openess about ur feelings and tots on d scriptures. The Bible definately contain answers to all d questions u asked above and can be explained and known thru proper studies and insight.

But i will lik to giv u ds advice. From experience, i can tell u dt forum explanations on key tins in d bible ar not always productive and can be misleading also. U ll hav all sorts of response from various ppl who u definately cant filter/detect thr regards for d scriptures thru NL. U ll also hav intruders, unbelievers, derailers, abusers etc coming to hav a say. At d end it mit b more confusing than u expected.

It will b great if u can plan ur time wit some reliable & experienced believers on NL who can take u on ds questions on another online platform either (one to one chat) or face to face. I could b of help also if u choose to send me an Inmail on NL so as to schedule time together.

Finally, as a Christian, u should hav ds stand on every doubt about any passage of d scriptures, dt d Word of God is supreme and final. It is u dt need to find and understand by d help of d Spirit d revelations of such passage.

italo:
Why are you telling me this. Has any Catholic told you that we dont all have access to the Father through Jesus Christ?

Well, u claim u ar to beg Mary to talk to Jesus so dt u can hav access to d Father. Mary herself dey rely on d blood which we all rely on.

Prove this from the Bible.

Prove wat? Dt she needed Christ blood to be saved or dt she learnt at d Apostle's feet?

However, I do know that Jesus always obeyed Mary. And Jesus is God.

I wonder wat exactly u mean by "obeyed". If i assumed ur tot, then Jesus was fulfilling d commandment (Obey ur parents, honor ur parents) by obeying Mary.

Do u kno wat ds statement implies: KNOW WE NO MAN AFTER D FLESH? (11 Cor 5:15 - 18). Even Christ is not known after d flesh again, d lineage is now of d spirit. Jesus as d firstborn, we all are joint heir (including mary). Mary does d will of Christ now as we do also.

You mean the Holy Spirit was wrong when he said "Blessed are you among women?"

She wont be d first nor d last to be blessed. D blessedness was a fact dt at d period when Jesus would come, she was found innocent/available. Nothing special about her, Mary as a name of a person wasnt preplan to be d mother of Christ, d bible prophesy a virgin. Dt could hav been any available (true heart, God fearing) fellow.
Just like Judas wasnt preplan as d person to betray Christ, he only made himself available, yielding to d devil to fill d slot. If judas has refused to fill in someone else will.

In Matt 16, Peter was available 4 God's revelation of Christ and he recieved and Jesus declared him Blessed. Same Peter was available for d devil later on.

Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure (clean, ready by preparation) in heart, For they shall see (percieve, experience, recognise) God.

italo:

What point have you made?

Dt Mary, Pope, u and I are on d same page. We all have access to d Father thru Jesus by one Spirit.
If u meet Mary today, she will laugh at ur claim becos she needed Christ blood to be save, needed to be taught by d early church Apostles and was just as same as Dorcas, Mary Magdalene and all other women of d early church. No special preference.

italo:

I think you should finish your exposé. If I start to respond now, we may never even get to the crux of the matter.

Dont worry, i will be patient enough for us to finish. Still expecting ur response.

italo:

And even the Bible never said "Bible alone." It never even said "Bible."

Mary, the apostles, Stephen, Timothy...

...All these holy Christians never followed Bible alone.

We Catholics will rather emulate them than follow Jehovah's Witnesses who changed their Bible to say "Jesus is a god" like sango and amadioha.

See confession! so u guys dey add jara a?

Wonder whr the Apostles hav extra doctrinal supports outside God's Word o.

italo:

If Father Abraham could be in heaven and hear the rich man in hades; Mother Mary in heaven can also hear me on earth.

Alleluia!

Keep looking for liars that would tell you all the lies you want to hear about the Catholic Church while Mother Mary continues to hear and intercede for us.

As you type, our Mummy is knocking on Jesus' door for us. Asking him to provide us wine.

As you type, we're listening to our Mummy say "do whatever He tells you."

As you type, Mummy is making Jesus do things even when the "time has not yet come."

Many good things! Physical and spiritual... temporal and eternal.

Keep fighting against devotion to the Mother of God. Perhaps, God will be proud of you.

Chairman,
Dt same mary was condemned under Sin, born in iniquity b4 christ came
Dt same mummy mary relied on d blood of Jesus to be saved.
Dt same mary patiently waited for d outpouring of d Spirit on d day of pentecost.
On d Day of reward, dt same mary will stand side by side with us to recieve her reward according to her works.
D same marry solely depended on d same grace dt saved us.
Dt same mary would hav been burning in hell by now, as we will all do if not for Christ takin our place.

U better wake up, Apostle Paul, Mary all looked up to dt grace of God (Christ) for salvation. Pope does too (he may not tell u), he relies solely on dt grace not on mary pleading for him.

woky: Onesiphorous was dead bt paul stil pray to God to show mercy to him(onesiphorous) on the day of judgment, you and i knws that thire is no forgivness in hell

Are u for real?

italo:
I have never heard of "suffering loss" in heaven. Can you prove this?

So we know that 1 Cor 3:15 isnt talking about hell.

But how can it be heaven when it mentions people suffering losses and being saved "as through fire?"

In Matt 12:32, Jesus clearly implies that there are sins that will be forgiven in the world to come. Read it. You and him dont seem to be on the same page.

Good morning and God bless you too.

In interpreting d scriptures, its always important to read thru d chapther to hav a clear understanding of wat is written, if not we will import our own thought into it.

Firstly, evry believer cant contend d fact dt the word "purgatory" doesnt occur as a word in d scriptures. definately we cant conclude from d non existence of such event in d bible just becos d word doesnt exist. But its a good place to start.

Going by d scriptures u pointed (1Cor 3:15), I will love if we can analyse d tot & stand of d writer by looking at d whole chapter together then we can reach a conclusion.

Lets analyse verse 5 - 9 first then we can move from thr.

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one?
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

I really want to believe u kno dt ds refered to d labor of Paul and Apollos in ministries i.e. preaching & teaching. (Paul said i planted, Apollos watered). Ds showed shared responsibilities not individual righteous actions but service in ministries.

8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.

Verse 8 showed dt thr is a reward for individual (his own labor). Wat labor? D planting/watering not personal sin or actions but service in ministries (vs 5: "but ministers through whom you believed". Verse 9: fellow workers.

CONCLUSION ON VERSE 5-9

1. Paul/ Apollos labor is related to thr sins but service & ministering for God to give increase
2. Ds labor will be rewards according to d service (planting/watering God's building whic ar d ppl).

Let me allow u to express ur side on d scriptures above then we can move to d next verses.

vickyO:
The Bible is an account. that's what it is.......

Sure, its an account but not a guide though provide gudiance. Its an authority over all issues.

vickyO: The Book of John 1:1 say Jesus is the Word and Rev. 19:13 says that too. The Apostles referred to it as the scriptures and not the word of God. I believe the Bible is a guide and a guide must be studied thoroughly so you don't miss the way. the bible must be studied so that Christians won't miss the narrow path but it's not the Word of God. the bible is also said to be Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.

Sis,
I appreciate ur psot above and ur stand on d fact dt Jesus is the Word. But i will point out dt d written word of God (Bible) is not a guide, though it can provide gudiance but d written word is absolute, far more than a guide.

italo:

You will see more options if you can answer these questions honestly and clearly.

1. Does anyone suffer loss or pass through fire in heaven?

2. Is anyone saved in hell?

3. Are sins forgiven in heaven or hell?

Bros, morning.

I will love us to look at d listed above in detail from d scripture so dt we can arrive at doctrinal stand on whether purgatrory exist or not.
I appreciate d scriptures u pointed to because it showed dt u truly hav true passion for d scripture and stand for d same.

To start wit, i will giv u quick answer to listed questions which we can then look at later to compare scriptures which i kno u also believe has d final say on all issues.
Q/A

1. Does anyone suffer loss or pass through fire in heaven?

Yes, some will.

2. Is anyone saved in hell?

No, After d death/ressurection of Christ, thr is no salvation in hell.

3. Are sins forgiven in heaven or hell?

No, 4givess of sins only happen here on earth, to the living.

We can pick up from here if u want us to discuss more on ds.

Bless u.

Ukuts gp: u mean the spirit of God is d one propelling people to dance Azonto and makosa in church? Why are people even lying against d spirit of God. Someone will still smoke in church and u will say it is the spirit of God moving him.

Bro, calm down.
Do u actually read my post, ur response showed dt u didnt read it or u r much in haste to respond. I quoted it again here

ajayikayod:

@Op, really i hav heard about those steps but cant actually identify them if i see someone doing it (i think i m too old school).

Firstly, i m wondering how u r able to identify those dances if u dont dance it or programmed it in u too. Dt means u dont just hear d names, u kno d steps by watching d movies etc? or mayb u dance them (whether in church or not).

Secondly, issues of shaking body in church can results into lots of arguments but in simple words; as worshipers of God, God doesnt see, look or grade our dance steps watever they are, God looks at d heart, d reverence in worship. Its a spirit filled worship dt God deserves and ds should flow from inside (inner man) outward not d other way, because thr (in d spirit) is d place of worship.

Firstly, i never refered to d Spirit of God, i wonder how u got dt. Man is a spirit, recreated man worship God in spirit, in truth, he rejoices in Christ without any confidence in d flesh or physical shape, or dance steps but his heart and spirit in worship.
U CAN ONLY WORSHIP GOD WITH UR HEART, every other avenue to/for worship (dancing, singing, jumping, giving, rolling, silence etc) is judged by d heart of d worshiper.

Secondly, we can create an environment mostly in church dt enable us 2easily align our being to absolute worship, such differing environments can raise debates but certainly clear in d scripture.

Ukuts gp: Is like some people definitely does not know the difference between church and disco hall.

On sunday when you go to church, during the praises you will see people dancing Azonto and Makossa.
You will see young boys and girls rocking, dancing Azonto and makossa style.

I dont know why people who say they christians are dancing such worldly dance which are invented from the kingdom of darkness.
I cant even imagine myself dancing in such a manner. Cant a christian dance in a simple and godly way? Must it be Azonto and makossa which are satanic in origin?

Even those playing the musical instrument are not even helping matters, as they play all these worldly and ungodly makossa beats and sounds.

I almost want to tell one lady dancing that way close to me to stop dancing that way but i just control myself. I dont just like such dance, it is worldly. Or what do you think. Is dancing Azonto and makossa style proper in church? To me i dont like it. I dont know if i am the only one thinking that way. Thanks.

@Op, really i hav heard about those steps but cant actually identify them if i see someone doing it (i think i m too old school).

Firstly, i m wondering how u r able to identify those dances if u dont dance it or programmed it in u too. Dt means u dont just hear d names, u kno d steps by watching d movies etc? or mayb u dance them (whether in church or not).

Secondly, issues of shaking body in church can results into lots of arguments but in simple words; as worshipers of God, God doesnt see, look or grade our dance steps watever they are, God looks at d heart, d reverence in worship. Its a spirit filled worship dt God deserves and ds should flow from inside (inner man) outward not d other way, because thr (in d spirit) is d place of worship.

obillyj: i just opened my mailbox and saw a mail from Oasis Petroleum. The grammar is plenty but the summary is that i was selected to be trained for period of 6months. i should apply for accommodation if am outside lagos. Trainee salary is N90,000(weird), starts 4/11/13. their office is at Admiralty lekki but i will pay N3000 naira into Engr. Sanusi Olamilekan account with first bank as Outsourcing company fee.
it's absurd they charge money for recruitment.
please did anyone receive the same mail? who knows about this Oasis Petroleum? are they genuine?

Oasis Petroleum truly exist but ds ur recruiter claiming to b Oasis pet is lying and want to scam u. Oasis petroleum will never ask u to pay any money for job offer.

Kindly paste here:
The account No of the Engr
The email address dt sent u d mail and other trailing email address
Thr phone nos.

Brethren, Shalom.

Just came into town and saw ds thread. Enjoyed d writings and insights of many here.
Hope i can still make my contribution late today whn i ve settled down.
Cheers!

peterphd:
Ever heard of public disturbance?

U ever heard of self deception?

peterphd:

You can't prove god and you guys go about blaring shi.t on loudspeakers? Talk about hocus-pocus.

Why is dt paining u?

wirinet: I am surprised that theist do not have the ability to learn anything outside their religious biases and dogmas. Other atheist have explained these issues a gazillion times and the same questions come up again with alarming regularity. Even if they decide not to read Nairaland's atheists response to these questions, Google is there to out.

These are the facts of atheism once again ; for the last time.
1. Atheism is a disbelief of all gods out of all the thousands of gods that had existed throughout human history. Monotheism is a belief in 1 god out of the thousands of other gods, while polytheism is a belief in multiple gods. The only common denominator of atheist is a lack of belief in all gods. Atheists holds wide and varied beliefs, someone like Tai Solarin does not accept or care about science - big bang or darwin evolutionary theories while carl sagan and dawkins believes in science.

2. Darwin was not an atheist, in fact he obtained a degree in Divination(theology) along with his degree in biology.

Most atheists have never heard of Richard Dawkins and have never read any of his books. in fact atheism preceed Dawkins by thousands of years. So how can Richard Dawkins be the GO of atheism.
I hope the question of what atheism is , about Darwinism or Dawkins being the creator of atheism does not come up again.

What about ur new church in Uk? Wr read dt too. Dont worry, gradually ur eyes will shine.

rationalmind:

This will be my last reply to you. I don't have time for people like you.

You chose a definition that suits you. Now I'm the one to explain the definition you chose for you.

Take it, leave it, run or hide, dt definition stand sure for ur disbelief. U ll kno soon, its just a matter of time. It doesnt matter if u dont hav my time atleast do find time for ur cause and practice.

rationalmind:

Going by the definition you highlighted, what exactly do atheists practice?

Its a pity u learnt so much about wat Christians practice and kno little about ur own religion. I dont jump around religion neither am i ur member, so i m not in a position to tell u wat u practice, if u dont kno it then try attend to ur classes and fellowshps well then u will kno. Some of ur evangelists can help u out.

david_hume:

So, enlighten me. What are the "SPECIFIC FUNDAMENTAL set of beliefs and PRACTICES generally agreed upon" by all atheists?

I m not in position to enlighten u, u r already in fellowship wit them so u will get total enlightenment soon but i hop u ll b able to stand such then.

david_hume:

By your narrow analogy, every doctor belongs to the religion of medicine. Since they all have a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons?

I tire for you o!

Evangelist david_hume, in dt my narrow analogy i discovered dt bein a doctor is a profession, Is atheism a profession too. Doctors as medical professionals may hav religion, beliefs, disbelief outside d profession as we hav scientists who ar Christians, atheist etc. But atheism is clearly not a profession its a religion of disbelief as Christianity is about belief in God thru Christ.

See, u hav been lured into a religion of denial unknowingly. Its not glaring now to u followers but will come clear later.

david_hume:

Lmao
Darwinist?! Are u for real? Y'all crack me up big time

I think the dictionary defines it better than i ever could:
RELIGION;
noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
-Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
(a) to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
(b) to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

I highlighted whr ur religion fits in and if u disagree on dt u can hav ds.

I belief u kno dt ATHIESM IS ABOUT DISBELIEF. Every disbelief comes from a stand of believin in somethings or knowledge.
So far dt u hav a set of disbelief (belief) concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of superpower, u r a religion sect.

Actually some of ur sect ar called Darwinist. Its a matter of time, u guys will b bold enough to start meeting together.

jayriginal:

Burn!

Sorry, I dont understand dt