TWoods:


Those oyinbos went to empty lands and transformed them into societies you want to live in. We simply want to reap where we have not sown. Why shouldn’t they make life hard for us? Do you let the homeless come sleep on your couch and eat your food for free?

You can say that again. People think that life in the 1700s and 1800s was a walk in the park. Imagine relocating to a place like Canada in the early 1800s and building a society from scratch, with winter temperatures dropping to -40C or lower and no electric heater in your house, or making sure that you get your farming right in the short warm seasons else you would starve to death. Consider what it was like to build roads, bridges or even houses in subzero temperatures or blazing summer heat with the "low tech" and skill available at that time. Virtually all of the North American immigrants in the early 1900s relocated without any welfare support from the government ( it did not exist at that time), - very many people today would not consider making such a move if such "support" was not available.

There are many things that people take for granted today that the early settlers made possible and I can only shake my head in disappointment when I read comments that reek of entitlement

With all of its issues, the US is, arguably, the greatest country on Earth right now.

Why does this keep some Nairalanders up at night?

RealMrNigerD:

The problem with Occam's razor is I wouldn't use it in determining truth subject to many complex variables. It simply tells us how to be safer and have less errors not necessarily truer. It can sometimes just be like saying, if we do everything we know to do, nothing will go wrong and if we hide our head in the sand, no one else will see us. You may need to think about that deeply to get it.
Now, to the meat. Remember that we can only see as much as we don't see, cause you've got two eyes only in your front, none behind. It's not enough to work with what you can see as absolute. You've kind of put this in a very straightforward binary possibilities. What if, there was an accident and something went wrong while executing the masterplan of creating a breakout only in targeted western nations and it affected the host nation?
Again, what if this is only a simulation for something still brewing underneath? You wouldn't need to be looking at all those points you raised then, would you?
Let's look through my questions again slowly, maybe if you start from there and go through it sequentially, it may plunge you into deeper thought.

Your view on Occam's Razor is a tad reductionist it seems. There's nothing binary about its application to the theory in question; according to the theory, COVID19 is a bio-weapon used by the Chinese government to achieve economic supremacy over the West. Now if that is the case, (and overlooking the very vagueness of the objective) then the outbreak in Wuhan, the deaths of Chinese nationals by their thousands, the economic disruption in China itself and the eventual lockdown of several regions within that country bring up more questions and doubts that can only be assuaged by introducing new plot points that do not align with the initial objective of the theory. The overview becomes way too complicated and disjointed for the initial assertion to hold especially as the newly introduced plot points are based entirely on unproven conjecture similar to the initial assertion.

Now to your questions
1. Can we conclude that these diseases are actually bioengineered in the lab?
No. We cannot say for certain that this is the case. There is no evidence other than widespread speculation that COVID19 is the work of a human mind. Till new facts emerge, arriving at such a conclusion is premature.
2. If yes, why do you think?
Let us for argument sake say that COVID19 is a bio-engineered weapon, then like all weapons, it is intended to cause harm or the destruction of the wielder's opponent. However, this fact does not validate the theory. We can string together a ton of other facts that do not contradict the assertion but also do not validate it either.
3. Again, do we have humans who can go to such lengths to control the economy?
It is reasonable to think that some people will go to extreme lengths to achieve their goals but like the previous question, this does not validate this particular theory.
4. If yes, then why do we doubt this conspiracy?
For the simple reason that with the disruptions in Western stock markets there has been no evidence of a take over by Chinese nationals or interests - which has been the claim of this conspiracy. Money has been lost as a result of this disruption, no doubt, but the players who dominate the markets remain the same. They have not been diminished or somehow been replaced by Chinese proxies.

I get it, such a theory tickles the fancies of an espionage driven mind but it is far fetched at best. I can equally claim that the COVID19 pandemic was masterminded by Biafarian agents who sought to inflict damage to Chinese and Western interests for not supporting their cause- it's just as probable as the Chinese theory but you and I know I just pulled that out of thin air.

RealMrNigerD:

One thing about conspiracy theories is that while they usually can neither be outrightly proven or disproved, the line of thought always ends up manifesting almost with exact parameters, so much so that they could earn the name conspiracy practical with me. Of course, it's not wise to believe what isn't proven but it's also unwise to doubt what seems to be, especially when the trend is repetitive.
I would ask you these:
1. Can we conclude that these diseases are actually bio-engineered in the lab.
2. If yes, why do you think?
3. Again, do we have humans who can go to such lengths to control the economy?
4. If yes, then why should we doubt the conspiracy?

Let me chime in here


Here is why you do not give any credence to conspiracy theories.

Occam's Razor Entities should not be multiplied without necessity. Basically it is a principle that says that the simplest solution is most likely the right one.


A whole lot of things would have to come together at just the right time for any of these (in fact for any) conspiracies to be valid.

So circling back to the COVID19 pandemic being masterminded it would mean that the Chinese would know with an uncanny degree of precision how countries and societies would react the way did. They must have known beforehand that world markets would crash and borders would be closed in the West.

They would have known that nobody would have had a cure available till their supposed objective was achieved. That requires superhuman foresight. So impossible

They would have been known that they would come out unscathed at the end of the outbreak. That is yet to be seen

There a ton of other complicated factors that would have just been right for this to be true. All of that is highly unlikely or impossible.

Now compare that very complicated scenario to a much simpler one which is that the outbreak was not premeditated and was not planned for. The virus itself may have been man-made but the science available all point to it being a new variant of well-known strain that jumped from an animal host (the pangolin) to humans. The virus mutates and breakouts in the human population and events unfold to what we have today.

Furthermore, there are some questions that suggest that this particular conspiracy theory should be discarded: Is there any evidence that China or Chinese nationals have bought up an unprecedented number of US stocks in recent weeks? Is a play at the US ever-changing stockmarkets even a measure of national economic superiority that any nation would want to adhere to?

That conspiracy does not warrant any benefit of the doubt. Tell them to throw it out of the window.

Cheers

A mgtow thread and the resident NL feminists rush to the scene like firefighters rushing to put out a fire. Golden

IBvoss:


There's a good difference between immigrants and foreign visitors. Immigrants travel with the aim of permanent settlement or at least, a stay much longer than that permitted by an immigration service. Foreign visitors are students, tourists and working individuals, who all possess the required visas and permits.

Those who travel out with the aim of migrating, are typically deemed as 'suffering Nigerians who work brown collar jobs'. That is simply the plain truth.
Those who migrate either illegally, or legally through some lottery, protection services, and others are condemned to the lowest stratum of the society they migrate to. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar! Of course, they are always exceptions to every rule but those exceptions are very rare and occupying a minimal percentage of these sets of migrants.

Leaving home is not always the best option. As they say, there's no better place than home. Even though individuals may have good reasons for migrating, I don't agree that it's the best choice. Nigeria as a developing nation with immense future prospects is a land filled with opportunity if you know where, and how to look.

Those who eventually migrate, are always at the lowest of the low, stuck working brown collar jobs. Even if you have some form of professional qualification, do you really think that employers would choose you and your qualification from a backwater location (as they view it) over their homebred citizens? (Incredibly outstanding qualifications are an exception to this.)

Although there are some who manage to find a better place in that society after tremendous effort and/or bountiful luck, it would always remain the truth that they are outcasts. They have no heritage there, no history and ultimately, there would be no belonging.

Even though some of the immigrants migrate because of the chaotic atmosphere in Nigeria and its seemingly bleak future; wanting a better environment for their future generations, it's not so easy to be indoctrinated into a foreign society. Your history as an immigrant will forever be a mark that limits you and allows for easy segregation in many areas of that society, especially when it comes to political positions.

Now, mentioning those select immigrants who end up successful, a fact often overlooked is that those few successful migrants would have probably been as successful or likely even more successful if they stayed in their native country and put in the same amount of effort that made them successful in that foreign country. They would find it much less difficult in their native country than it was in a foreign country.

I also see that the Chinese are being mentioned in this thread, but has any of you ever met a Chinese individual who told you he/she is here because they love the Nigerian country and seek to be a Nigerian citizen?
The Chinese are only here to take advantage of the opportunities in Nigeria, the same opportunities these migrating individuals are throwing away, in search of 'greener pastures'.

It's actually quite the reverse if you look at it like this: The Chinese leave their highly developed native lands, which have minimal opportunities for grasps and high levels of competition, to a developing third world country like Nigeria, which has abundant opportunities for them to exploit.

Yet, the natives of this country overflowing with opportunities, are so eager to leave their country in search of an illusive 'greener pasture' which is in reality, a foreign land filled with minimal opportunities and an intense level of competition among its own indigenous citizens, not to mention foreign immigrants.

And lastly, there are those set of toxic migrants who are mostly the bearers of the bad reputation that precedes migration and overseas travel in Nigeria.

These individuals are mostly illegal immigrants and their reason for migrating to a foreign land is all money-oriented, with the poor economy of Nigeria playing a big role. Due to bad situation of the Nigerian economy and the ever decreasing value of its currency, these set of individuals all have the ridiculous thought of migrating to a foreign country for the sole sake of that country's currency and its value. They believe that, if they can find a job (no matter what it is or how low it is) in a foreign country and save enough of an amount, they can return to their native land and retire in immense wealth and splendour, after converting the little amount they earned into the increasingly worthless currency of their native land.

Their now acquired wealth, in turn, motivates other individuals lamenting the perceived poor state of the country, and their miserable lives and pockets, to migrate to a foreign land where they are despised and treated as the lowest of the low. Losing their pride, dignity and potential, all for a dollar!
A mind-boggling fact is that these particular migrants positions in their native country were not as bad, relative to their lowly positions in the foreign country.

There are even some that are doing outstandingly well in their native land but still amazingly choose to migrate into a society where they are degraded and despised by the locals. The actions of these people bring about a negative reputation of their country as a whole, and make it difficult for legal visitors to procure a visa.

Where do I start with this?

I will cede that there is a high probability for illegals to end up this way because by definition of being an illegal they are not equipped with the skills, knowledge, education, experience, and language required to participate in the economy of the host country. Because of this skill deficit, they end up in low paying jobs because this is the most they can achieve. The illegals and low skilled immigrants slowly become a burden to their hosts because they'll consume a disproportionate amount of government welfare where available without fair or equal contribution to the system.

The case is different from immigrants who come in the proper way. Again, by definition of being legal immigrants, they typically would have met the skills, education and language requirements put in place by their hosts. This class of immigrants also referred to as high skilled immigrants usually come into their host countries enthusiastically and optimistically armed with the appropriate 'economic toolkit'. They are the ones best suited to climb the economic ladder and they do so generating wealth for themselves, their families and their communities.

Examples of this abound in New Zealand, Australia, and Canada where high skilled immigrants from India and China, for instance, are seen as a net positive to their economic wellbeing. These countries have immigration policies designed to attract the upwardly mobile demographic of other countries and examples abound where such immigrants successfully occupy the middle to high-class rungs of those countries.
These types of immigrants make significant contributions in fields such as technology and science through their innovative and entrepreneurial undertakings.

Low skilled immigrants and illegals on the other hand, because of the reasons I had highlighted earlier, tend not to integrate successfully. Instead, they form ethnic and tribal ghettos with their attendant socio-economic woes in their host countries thereby further limiting their chances of economic success. We can see this in many European countries, and parts of the US(which has also benefitted from high skilled immigrants) and the wave of resistance growing against these types continues to climb daily.

You are mistaken if you believe that the majority immigrants whether legal or illegal will be condemned to the lowest strata of their host countries.

thebosstrevor:


you parent did some odd job and took some loans for you to enjoy thus creating a debt trap.

Many nigerian do odd jobs abroad. That is a fact.

Your parent and maybe you are working.do you or your family own the company where they work. Did they not compete with locals to get what they want.many used AAction to get jobs.

From all the grammar you wrote.you sound entitled.

This is an old and tired argument here on NL.

It is Nigerians without proper documentation that are the bulk of those doing "odd jobs" overseas. Many people in Nigeria get the wrong impression of what life is overseas then travel out illegally only to get stuck doing menial jobs forever. That said, there are those who travel abroad legally, sometimes for schooling, and end up working in high profile occupations.

People who keep making the claim that it is only menial jobs that Nigerians do overseas are saying so because they only know those who are there illegally.

Come to think about it, I encourage those who are overseas to tell everyone else that they are only working menial jobs. That way they'll have an excuse not to send money when the request is made

Olalekank:

What is the right thing?

The right thing is to stop being an illegal alien and return to where you have legal status, i.e. Nigeria.

Of course, everyone and their puppies have waxed lyrical on how life in Nigeria is worse than hell but they conveniently overlook the fact that the OP willfully and consciously decided to violate the laws of the land by overstaying her visa and remaining as an illegal alien. It didn't happen by accident or by force.

It is probably tough to do now but that is the right thing.

The recent developments on this thread have been nothing but amazing.

I was shocked and saddened to see the number of people on here encouraging the OP to 'game the system' but now I see that their leader is a dubious character it all begins to make sense.

Kudos to all the posters who lent their voice in telling the OP to do the right thing.

Nairaland drama. lol

Go Justwise!

Teaser4:
snowflakes plenty here oo

This ties in with the comment I made earlier, the default black orientation is leftist. These days it appears that when our people gather the conversation is quickly hijacked by the Trump Delusion Syndrome - how Trump is causing them stomach pain, not letting them sleep well at night and everything else in between. Don't people get tired of all this?

The leftist seed was sown in too deep.

Anyways how's this for a derailer topic; no self-respecting individual should bother going to college except for a STEM degree. Any degree outside STEM, especially in American colleges today, is a pathway to a life of debt, government dependence and economic impotence.

kroger:


CEH (Certified Ethical Hacker)

All the best with your exam!

kroger:


Boss, am on lowkey this weekend..Grill/drinks and Netflix. Having a major certification next week so I need to study small ..

Pray tell, what certification are you preparing for?

OyinbowithaTan:
Americans care about illegal immigration, not legal immigration. Nigerians are conservative also.

That's true but Nigerians who hold conservative values in North America are the obscure minority. The default black orientation is liberal and it has been so for many decades now.

Backfornow:


Did you say LBGTQYZ power? Thats kinda funny truthfully they are a very powerful force.

When oppression is the new currency of the day, whoever presents themselves as the most oppressed wields the strongest power. So it should come as no surprise that those people are very powerful.

All this talk of oppression and victimization of blacks in 2018 never fail to amaze me.

It is granted that blacks and minorities suffered horrible atrocities in the past but anyone who continues to accept that as the reason why they are underperforming in key success areas today is adopting the convenient and preposterous position that has gained the upper hand in many circles today.

While we are busy playing victim and victimizer in America, Asian immigrants are excelling, even more than whites, under the very same system that we lament about. I wonder why. But there's no time to reason out why this is the case, time is better spent organizing the next protest and demonstration. Eff the Donald! Eff the popo! Antifa power! BLM power, LBGTQYZ power

Babyvet:


Actually Canada is looking to do away with their birthright citizenship.

Actually, in the Great White North its the conservative party that is looking to do away with this. The current liberal government has condemned the move by the conservative party recent resolution to end jus soli. The people who think this policy change will go nowhere in Canada may be in for a big surprise in the near future. If the liberals lose to the conservatives in the next general elections this can be a sure thing... and with the many missteps they are currently making the liberals are quietly alarmed.

If the canucks eventually do this then the yanks will be the only developed nation in the world with such a policy. Interesting times eh?

It never fails to amaze me how black people easily swallow the leftist narrative on current events.

Then again the lure of victim mentality and identity politics has a pull unmatched by very few things out there.

bettyLad:
seeing this post now I don't know what to think ,just two weeks ago hubby told me about getting Canada visit visa so we can move there and seek asylum, 4of his friends did it and are there with family now , we r crossed between starting our own house project or use the money for relocation , he said we ll seek asylum when we get to canada or process Us visa and cross through from new York, i don't know if to tell him what I just read cos he ll abort the plan oh, im in niger with the kids alone, hubby is in the UAE on a part time bizness, I really want to leave this country to better the lives of my kids . .nairalanders pls advice me, what do I do

If you are thinking of immigrating do so through the legal route. The US and Canada, for example, have in place several immigration pathways that if followed afford people adequate support in the long and arduous process of relocation.

Do not for a second consider the way the people in the OP are going through, it is only a matter of time before even this route is sealed. Do it properly give you and your family peace of mind.

abbey621:


Hilarious I couldn't care less if you believe or not, your approval does nothing for me! I'm sure you are one of those that believe that 71% of Nigerians survive on less than a dollar per day and that about 92% survive on less than 2 dollars per day.....The funny thing about statistics is that it can be skewed....Lmao! So who is right? UNICEF or a well educated Nigerian, born and raised in Nigeria? Believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe....lol

See this uncle going off on a tangent. lol

For now, your figures have been filed in the beer parlor category.

***
Now the discussion can continue without people pulling numbers from thin air.

sammirano:


It doesnt make any sense. Why does Canada Govt keep those borders open is still a question left unanswered. They clearly have their motives.

This particular point of entry is not a legal border crossing by any means and people who cross it are arrested on the Canadian side; they are informed well ahead by CBSA agents of the consequences of crossing illegally right there.

There are efforts underway to close these illegal entry points or turn them into proper POEs though but with the Liberals in power, those efforts don't appear to be moving fast enough. Yes, the suspicion of other motives is valid.

abbey621:


You are talking about official numbers; if there's anything that is sure about the USA, it is the fact that the government is clueless about the amount of undocumented immigrants in the country. In 2015 there were 2.1 million Africans known to the government, yet that figure does not include those who came in through passports from another country, those who crossed from Mexico, those whose visitors visa expires and so on. Remember there are several tools such as surveys, anonymous questionnaires, database from private NGOs that we audit and so on, which reveals nationalities of the respondents. I'm sorry can't reveal much more than that, just know that official numbers are only part of the total picture.

This is a lame cop-out as far as I can tell. There I was reading with the hope of learning something new.

Either you have the figures or you don't. Coming out in public with numbers that cannot be verified doesn't help your argument, mysterious NGO or not.

Until such a time when new and verifiable figures are presented from a credible source, people will continue with those provided by the government.

Euouae:


For new applicants and not for people who had multiples Visa's in the last 10years

That remains to be seen.

People imagine that once they cross the border into Canada that it's happily ever after...They don't know that many asylum seekers are eventually deported.

In 2017 Canada deported over 8000 asylum seekers according to reports. You can bet that number will increase this year. This is fast becoming a topical issue in Canada and with the coming elections next year, the sentiment might move to tightening the immigration process that the Liberals have put in place.

LaudableXX:


Here comes another defender of the British universe! Bro', get a hanky and dry your tears which were caused by the uncomplimentary remarks made against your beloved UK. Are you hoping for a knighthood from the Queen perhaps, for defending the old empire from the comments made by Nigerians, on NL?

I'm actually hoping to be made a Baron this year, too bad her majesty doesn't visit this site to see the fine work I'm doing here.

My aristocratic ambitions aside, readers like me are not fooled by posts that reek of an overblown sense of entitlement and failure in reasoning all the while posing as the cry of the oppressed.

I'll call out such disingenuousness wherever I see it and if pan-Africanists, who are always looking for a way to stick it to the UK, have a problem with this they can kiss my coat tail.

It's funny how everyone has forgotten all the UK bashing that went on in the early pages of this thread.

Comments like this that were explicit
The Uk is a complete waste of public space especially for african migrants if you ask me..

or the implied ones by many, even the OP (who is now claiming to perform a public service), that the UK somehow deceived them into studying there.

Many people also imagine that the only reason why one would go for a masters degree overseas is to relocate. That may be true to some extent but not completely. If it were the UK would not be the #2 top destination for international students.

Hehehe

All those giving themselves high blood pressure because the UK, a sovereign nation that has the rights to decide who lives within its boundary, did not offer them permanent residence are amusing.

It is either that people are willfully ignorant of the law or they are driven by an unreal sense of entitlement. Simply put the sentiment being expressed by many here is this -

UK, I have spent N20 million naira on my education, therefore, you must grant me permanent residence and a job.

Furthermore, others here are in one way or the other implying that the universities offering admission to international students do so with deceit and cunning. They make the ludicrous assertion that UK schools hide the fact that international students, for the most part, are expected to leave the country after their education. These are the same people who accepted their admission based on the condition that they leave after studying.

The UK owes you nothing. You paid for and were given world-class education. Go and use that education to further yourself and your home country. Next time when you want to immigrate using the education route look elsewhere.

TWoods:


My point is that those who claim to be smart enough to get foreign degrees should also be smart enough to count the cost before putting a hand on the ploughing. The consequence is not the fault of anyone else.

Well said.

It is heartwarming to find people who still post sensibly here on NL and I commend you, sir.

Tinyemeka:


Do you mean one has to stop at 'every' single stop sign positioned along the road? I don't mean traffic lights or Zebra crossings o.

Yup

Pidgin2:


Mr. Canadian citizen, you will never be known down here, no Canadian citizen is well known down here, whereas countless Nigerian citizens become great personalities or at least have a chance to be. Even in your country your chances of becoming somebody worthy of recognition is very slim, go and enjoy your good life while we here get the chance of becoming more than just your average Joe

After seeing this old post quoted above I had to address it . . . for my own enjoyment of course.

So Nigerians don't know the likes of Drake, The Weeknd, Keanu Reeves, Keifer Sutherland, Jim Carrey, Celine Dion, Ryan Reynolds, Ellen Page, Brendan Fraser or Justin Bieber?

Tell me something

The issue with people like madam Pidgin is that anything that is not flattering to Nigeria, even if it is the truth or reality, equates to hatred or an attack on Nigeria in their books. That is the binary outlook people like that take and so they willfully blind themselves to any objective analysis of the country.

The result is that by taking this position they inadvertently highlight they very shortcomings they want to cover up and so we end with the comedy of delusion that is this thread.


. . . and it is my job to call out all this for my wicked enjoyment

youngestland:


please dont start with the 400k salary again constant 400k for 9 years you are building houses thats a very good investment sir

Why won't it be a great investment when typical expenses like rent, petrol for cars and gens, car maintenance, PHCN, feeding, security, vigilante dues DSTV, phone and internet bills, family welfare and all the other myriad of things that depend on a salary in Nigeria are non-existent, right?