OLAADEGBU:


I wonder why atheists get angry at the God they don't believe exists.

Why is it 'impossible to hate something that doesn't exist'? Nonsense! It is precisely because god doesn't exist that I hate them so much! When you read about Jehova's Witnesses who refused to let their child get a blood transfusion because their god said so, when you see Islamist Muslims shriek "Allahu Ackbar! God is Great!" before murdering innocent civilians in London and Paris, when you see a bunch of mad people hooting and stomping in prayer outside of a burning textile building for their god to put the fire out, what other response can one give other that hatred!?

The "god" that so many billions believe in results in so many idiosyncratic cruelties worldwide it's not funny.

UmarIbnShittu:
u r just trying to Strt a baseless argument Seun please do d needfull by severing dis thread of dis forum b4 u Strt getting funny report

"Blows horn"

It's not a "baseless" argument? What about any of what I said is "baseless"? Maybe I should put a fourth bullet point up there!!

4. MUSLIMS DO NOT TAKE CRITICISM WELL AND WILL SHUT YOU UP HOWEVER THEY CAN IF YOU PUT SHADE ON THEIR RELIGION.

OLAADEGBU:
If the Bible is just a book of fairy-tales, then why is it banned in at least 52 countries?

52 countries? That's 1/4 of all countries on earth.

Which countries are they?

I think you're lying.

I swear if the mods delete this.... just trying to have a Frank discussion on the Islamic faith and my problems with it, don't remove please

1. Many Muslims in Western countries talk about their individual rights to wear what they want, especially in the face of the bans on the primitive Burqa throughout the West, but in their own Muslim majority countries, the veil and sometimes the burqa are RIGIDLY enforced upon the population, including on non-muslims.

So many people are blabbing about bans on the burqa being 'racist' or discriminatory against Islam. Well I think Islam is discriminatory against anyone who DOESN'T wear a veil, just not when it is the religion of the minority. The Burqa is one of the most toxic practices of the most backwards form of Islam, is a blatant symbol of the oppression of women (which is perpetrated by other WOMEN as well as men, something Muslims do not understand), and is absolutely something ENFORCED via family in ultraconservative muslim households. Yet somehow it gains attention as a symbol of free choice in the West? Hell no! Ban that Burqa and burn that Niqab!

2. Many Muslims argue for 'acceptance' of their faith in the same way one accepts the cultures of others into multicultural society, especially in places where they are the minority. While there is no doubt a lot of bigoted hatred towards Islam and Muslims, the fact remains that in Muslim majority nations people are anything but multicultural.

Just think for a second, claiming that your god is the only true god, and that your holy book and way of life is superior to everyone elses'? That's not multicultural at all! And it shows in practice! In nearly EVERY Muslim country, it is forbidden in society as well as LAW for a non-Muslim man to marry a Muslim woman, BUT a Muslim man marrying a Non-Muslim woman is perfectly legal! In Malaysia, Muslims have burnt down Churches SIMPLY because the Christian locals used the word "Allah" to refer to the Christian god (Allah is the word for God in arabic!)! Christians and Sufis are routinely murdered by Islamists in Egypt. In Bangladesh, major cultural festivals are being threatened with closure because the Islamists think that it is "pagan", Hinduists have had their homes raided and their land stolen by violent Muslim pirates who justify their actions because they are Muslim and their victims are not Muslim, AND atheists, women's rights activists, labour activists and secularists have had to FLEE the country because they have been targeted by Muslim murderers for publishing their views.

3. Islam is contradictory, in that it encourages it's followers to search for the truth behind all things but not the truth of it's own validity. Barely any Muslims of any school criticise the Quran, so much as they just "reinterpret" it's lines to fit with the modern era, and many don't even do that! Look to the barbarian nation of Saudi Arabia and you will see no end of utter STUPIDITY from the Imams that reside there: "Women are dumb", "Women shouldn't drive because it will shake their womb and give them a miscarriage", "Homosexuality causes natural disasters", the list is fucking endless and it stops being hilarious when you realise that there are MILLIONS of UNQUESTIONINGLY LOYAL MUSLIM DOGS who look up to and listen to these people. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims today who still genuinely believe that the Quran is eternal and has existed since the beginning of time..... No.


I remember seeing someone claim that Islam is a religion that promotes "women's rights" on a TV broadcast here.... HAHAHAHAHA

4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

As you can see, the Quran is NOT a bastion of Women's Rights, quite the opposite in fact. Muhammed himself HATED the idea of women running governments, such as the Queen of Persia.

How delusional can you get? Is it delusional or is it just lying to an unassuming foreign audience? You can't even tell!

"Allah is the best of deceivers" - Quran.


Of the countries today that hold the death penalty for Atheism and for Apostasy, ALL are MUSLIM COUNTRIES.

folashade96:
Op you are a very smart person

No my friend just curious

Zoroastrianism is also interesting in that it deviates a LOT from other traditional Indo-European religions. Other Indo-European religions had a lot of similarities e.g. Norse mythology's Tyr = Greek Mythology's Zeus = Hinduism's/Vedic religion's Dyaus-Pitah, with similar pantheons of gods and goddesses, but Zoroastrianism is very different. It was very revolutionary when it first appeared.

GavelSlam:
The downtrodden in Africa actually enjoy being oppressed sorry to say.

Watch how many would deflect from this reality of funds being spirited away from their economy by suggesting others they perceive may have done the same.

As anywhere in the world, Africans enjoy the quality of leadership they deserve.

That's incredibly unfair and also naive. Many of these power structures have been in place since colonial times and many political movements in Africa to end this kind of corruption have been ruthlessly crushed by hired guns and militias or by ruling government forces (though fair enough, some of them ended being becoming corrupt). But times may change.

In Romania 10 years ago nobody would even think of questioning the corrupt oligarchs who run the country through bribes and treachery, let alone getting them arrested. Now there's a huge anti-corruption movement online and offline that's been pulling modern day Romanian feudal lords and other White Collar Criminals under the spotlight. Instead of doing what other Eastern European states did by playing to the tune of the oligarchs and obsessing over some racist ultranationalist group that works as protectors of the corrupt and underworld elite and blames foreigners for problems (looking at you Bulgaria, Hungary, Croatia, etc.), Romanians took the intelligent route and directly confronted the scum in government and finance who were looting their country.

Atheism is on the rise, and so is the culture that promotes it: good education and worldly interconnectivity.

Top 10 countries in 2012 with populations saying they think of themselves as convinced atheists:

https://sidmennt.is/wp-content/uploads/Gallup-International-um-tr%C3%BA-og-tr%C3%BAleysi-2012.pdf

Countries
RP= A religious person

NR = Not a religious person

A= A convinced atheist

N/A =Don’t know / no response


1. China RP= 14% NR= 30% A= 47% N/A= 9%
2. Japan RP= 16% NR= 31% A= 31% N/A= 23%
3. Czech Republic RP= 20% NR= 48% A= 30% N/A= 2%
4. France RP= 37% NR= 34% A= 29% N/A= 1%
5. Korea, Rep (South) RP= 52% NR =31% A= 15% N/A= 2%
6. Germany RP= 51% NR= 33% A= 15% N/A= 1%
7. Netherlands RP= 43% NR= 42% A= 14% N/A= 2%
8. Austria RP= 42% NR= 43% A= 10% N/A= 5%
9. Iceland RP= 57% NR= 31% A= 10% N/A= 2%
10. Australia RP= 37% NR= 48% A= 10% N/A= 5%
11. Ireland RP= 47% NR= 44% A= 10% N/A= 0%

Notice how all of the above countries are highly educated, secular nations?

Zoroastrianism (Also known as Behdin meaning "The best religion" is an ancient religion, believed to have been preached by the ancient Persian prophet Zoroaster/Zarathustra over 3000 years ago, Over 1000 years before Jesus was born and nearly over 2000 years before Islam. It was a religion practiced throughout Central Asia and Persia (Persia being the Iranian speaking lands of the time - most of central Asia was filled with Iranian speakers and not Turks then). It is believed to have had influence on Judaism and Early Christianity, particularly because of it's beliefs of monotheism and it's beliefs regarding concepts of good and evil and morality.

However, Zoroastrianism was not an Abrahamic or Semitic religion in origin like Christianity, Islam and Judaism. In fact, it was an Iranian/Aryan religion, originating from the religion of Iranian tribes.

Examples:
Humata, Hukhta, Huvarshta, which mean: Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds.

There is only one path and that is the path of Truth.

Do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, and then all beneficial rewards will come to you also.

Zoroastrianism was the religion of the first Persian Empire's famous founder, Cyrus the Great. Cyrus, unlike many other rulers of the Near East such as the Assyrians or Babylonians, did not pursue policies of "assimilate or die" towards peoples who were not his own, instead giving them greater autonomy where they were majorities and awarding them major positions in government. Cyrus is famously referred to in the Bible as "God's Chosen One", due to the fact that he sent policies and the military in to stop the violent persecution of Jews in the Fertile Crescent and saved the lives of the ancient Hebrew community.



The Avesta is the religion's Bible, written in the ancient East Iranian language Avestan, a language closely related to Sogdian, Scythian, Bactrian and to modern day Pashto and the Pamiri languages between Afghanistan, Pakistan and China. Another language connected to the religion was of course Old Persian, an ancient West Iranian language related to modern day Persian (Farsi,Dari) and Kurdish.

From Wikipedia:

Zoroastrians believe that there is one universal, transcendent, supreme god, Ahura Mazda, or the "Wise Lord". (Ahura means "Being" and Mazda means "Mind" in Avestan language).[24] Zoroaster keeps the two attributes separate as two different concepts in most of the Gathas and also consciously uses a masculine word for one concept and a feminine for the other, as if to distract from an anthropomorphism of his divinity. Zoroaster claimed that Ahura Mazda is almighty, though not omnipotent.

Other scholars assert that since Zoroastrianism's divinity covers both being and mind as immanent entities, it is better described as a belief in an immanent self-creating universe with consciousness as its special attribute, thereby putting Zoroastranism in the pantheistic fold where it can be easily traced to its shared origin with Indian Brahmanism.[25][26] In any case, Ahura Mazda's creation—evident is widely agreed as asha, truth and order—is the antithesis of chaos, which is evident as druj, falsehood and disorder. The resulting conflict involves the entire universe, including humanity, which has an active role to play in the conflict.[27]

In Zoroastrian tradition, the "chaotic" is represented by Angra Mainyu (also referred to as "Ahriman", the "Destructive Principle", while the benevolent is represented through Ahura Mazda's Spenta Mainyu, the instrument or "Bounteous Principle" of the act of creation. It is through Spenta Mainyu that transcendental Ahura Mazda is immanent in humankind, and through which the Creator interacts with the world. According to Zoroastrian cosmology, in articulating the Ahuna Vairya formula, Ahura Mazda made His ultimate triumph evident to Angra Mainyu. As expressions and aspects of Creation, Ahura Mazda emanated the Amesha Spentas ("Bounteous Immortals", that are each the hypostasis and representative of one aspect of that Creation. These Amesha Spenta are in turn assisted by a league of lesser principles, the Yazatas, each "Worthy of Worship" and each again a hypostasis of a moral or physical aspect of creation.

Zoroastrian theology includes a duty to protect nature. This has led some to proclaim it as the "world's first ecological religion." Scholars have argued that, since the protections are part of a ritual, they stem from theology rather than ecology. Others have responded that, since the scripture calls for the protection of water, earth, fire, air, as one of its strongest precepts, it is, in effect, an ecological religion: "It is not surprising that Mazdaism (another term for Zoroastrianism) is called the first ecological religion. The reverence for Yazatas (divine spirits) emphasizes the preservation of nature (Avesta: Yasnas 1.19, 3.4, 16.9; Yashts 6.3–4, 10.13)." [28]




Painting depicting Zoroastrians at a Fire Temple in Baku, Azerbaijan.

Zoroastrians hold fire and water as symbols of life and sacred. Zoroastrian Temples were also known as fire temples, due to the fact that there were fires within them that were always burning. Many Temples used solid proto-petroleum stones, which can burn constantly over thousands of years, within the temples of the everlasting flame. It is possible that some of the burning proto-petroleum stones in Azerbaijan, Yazd and elsewhere have not once gone out in over 1000 years.



A mural from Panjakent, 6th century of Sogdians. Sogdians were an East Iranian people who once commanded a mighty empire of the silk road. As with other regions of Persia and Central Asia, the Sogdians were mainly Zoroastrians. Modern day Tajiks and other tribes/peoples around Afghanistan and Tajikistan are believed to be partly descended from Sogdians.



A mummy of a Scythian Warrior from over 2000 years ago. He has tattoos aligning to spirits and demons similar to those within the Zoroastrian faith - possibly indicating that they either followed the faith or a primordial Iranian faith connected to it. The Scythians were an ancient Iranian people who lived nomadic lives on horseback in the steppes of Northern Eurasia, and were also known for having women warriors as well as men, and for creating the first trousers (fun fact: ancient Greeks refused to wear pants over their skirts or robes because they thought they were not "manly". How times change!).





More Scythian tattoos. The top tattoos of a big cat, likely a lion or tiger, mauling or killing a Stag or Bull, is common imagery in both Zoroastrian and more widely Iranian symbology.





Zoroastrianism heavily declined after the Arab-Muslim invasion of Persia and the creation of the first Caliphates, under Arab rule Zoroastrianism was gradually decimated and replaced by Islam, partly through jizya tax of non-Muslims and encouragement to convert to Islam, and of violent repression and murder of any Zoroastrians who tried to rise up against or challenge Muslim rule. Mohammad personally disliked the fact that Zoroastrian Persia was ruled by a woman, and many Muslims grew neckbeards without moustaches to contrast to the moustaches of the Zoroastrians. Nevertheless, Zoroastrianism has survived as a religion to this very day, albeit in very small numbers. One of the most significant of Zoroastrian communities are the Parsis of India, descendants of Persian Zoroastrians who fled to India during the early Muslim age.



A Parsi mother and child(?) walk past a Zoroastrian Mural in India.



Parsi Zoroastrian Priests practicing Jashan, a Zoroastrian mass, India.

KingEbukasBlog:


In the same vein , I could claim that people in atheist nations lie about being atheists to avoid being killed by the ravaging blood thirsty atheist tyrants . mtcheew

What are you even arguing about at this point?

"Atheist nations"? By that, do you mean nations with a lot of atheists or somewhere like the Soviet Union? There are overwhelming historical archives on atheists in the ancient world who had to censor their beliefs on pain of death or persecution, and I don't think the switcharound is going to be that great of an argument against atheism, considering the overwhelming majority of countries with open atheists are secular democratic countries, Vietnam and China being exceptions to the rule.

KingEbukasBlog:
Anyway , which god does not exist ? The universe, the totality of everything , Zeus , Julius Caeser, or the ancient Emperors of China and Japan .

Quit with the weasel words.

Oxford Dictionary:

God
NOUN

1(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
Example sentencesSynonyms
2(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
‘a moon god’
‘the Hindu god Vishnu’

deism

ˈdeɪɪz(ə)m,ˈdiːɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun

belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe.

You don't get to define what "god" is and is not in the English language. There is NO supreme being or creator of the universe and there is absolutely NO evidence or modern reasoning to support this assertation.

One day we will be free.

[img]https://2.bp..com/-JxMnzDcvMY0/WS0kuvgVAZI/AAAAAAAAMUE/abKJNdo_16gqfwGEG9xoBferZZr_iOwrACLcB/s1600/biafra-flag.jpg[/img]

KingEbukasBlog:


And I just discovered the Mu'tazilites or adherents of the Mu'tazili school were Islamic theologians who tried to take a rational view of the problem of evil - they tried to reconcile the justice of an all-powerful God with the reality of evil in the world.

This is congruous with my post which precedes this one . Critics of Islam who were mathematicians , scientists , poets were mostly Muslims themselves , Christian coverts and adherents of pagan religions in non-Muslim communities in the Arab world not atheists .

Felixomor , atheists at work again . Trying to mislead people again

Do you think thinly vailed ad hominem makes you sound like more of an authority or something? You just come off as arrogant. And If you had any reading comprehension skills whatsoever, you'd realise that I had mentioned the Mutazilah in ADDITION to atheists - I never claimed that they themselves were atheists, just that they took skeptical views on the Quran (And it's believed that numerous atheists in the Islamic world LIED that they were muslims of schools like Mutazilites to avoid persecution by governments - with good reason; the late Umayyad had a succession of leaders who brutally persecuted atheists and Mutazilis alike).

Any more reading comprehension skills than that and you'd have remembered that my comment was that Atheism bloomed in historical periods credited with scientific and academic proficiency, NOT that it was the cause ("deism" wasn't either) of said periods. A tiny bit more comprendé and you'd realise that arguing whether Atheists or deists had more influence over major social revolutions is not the focus of the subject topic. The opening post posits the childish fallacy that the North Korean cult state, for all it's social control and mythology, pushes Atheism, therefore atheism = tyranny. It's quite clear that you would rather shriek about the fact that Voltaire exists and how much you hate the idea that there is no creator being, while avoiding the travesty that is the opening topic. Cherry picking saves face, after all.


Also, god doesn't fucking exist.

The Judeo-Christian God chose Hebrews to be his chosen people because he was made up by those Hebrews. They chose themselves, and until Christianity, Yahweh was used as a religious excuse to themselves for deserving better than the other tribes around them.

umarshek6:
Xtains view X+X+X=X

Normal humans view X+X+X=3X

Claiming that Muslims are "normal humans" in comparison to Christians is quite a stretch.

What even is a "normal human"? Just sounds like petty modern tribalism to demonise an opposing viewpoint to your own by being "abnormal".

KingEbukasBlog:


Kim is not a god of North Korea , there is no where in their constitution or in the Juche Ideology that refers to Kim or his ancestors as deities . I can see no atheist here understands what a cult of personality is , but its okay very little or nothing reasonable at all is expected from you guys

Stop being so banally literalist. The Kim family are worshipped as gods. They are involved in mythology (it is alleged that Kim Jong-il was born on Mount Paektu at his father's secret base in 1942 (his actual birth was in 1941 in the Soviet Union) and that his birth was heralded by a swallow, caused winter to change to spring, a star to illuminate the sky, and a double rainbow spontaneously appeared.[56] - Wikipedia) There is no room for secular logic or criticism that breaches party line. The argument here is not that where or not the craziness in North Korea is a deific religion, but that claiming that North Korea is the result of an "Atheist Dark Age" is complete fallacy because North Korea's state control and cult function identically to the most conservative of religious states.

Many Scandinavians had trade (and slave routes) through Northeast Europe that connected to Azerbaijan and subsequently Persia and the Islamic world. Most of the writings on Scandinavians at certain points in history is from scholars from the Islamic world. It's entirely likely that there was religious contact, but I doubt there was anything beyond some casual or adopted religious practice. There are no Cevems or Mosques in old Scandinavia.

In fact, many people in Azerbaijan and North Iran have some Irish ancestry in them due to the fact that Irish slaves were traded along the North-East caucasus.

Allah isn't real. Shave your beard fool.

Using North Korea as an example of an "atheist" country is a complete fallacy - "Juche" and the rigid ideology of the dictator state mirrors hardcore religion completely in it's restrictions and zealotry.

Actually, some of the most intelligent moments in human history have seen huge explosions in atheism, such as Pre-Platonic Greece with Democritus and the like, ancient India (which may or may not have had ancient Greek scholarly contact), The Islamic Golden Age (many Islamic scientists, poets and mathematicians were atheists, with many more taking an extremely critical take on the Quran, such as with the Mutazliah school), and the Enlightenment, the French Revolution and the rise of Socialism.

Far from being Dark Ages, these events were gasps of human ingenuity and hope, which were immediately followed by violent religious and political crackdowns, book-burning and whatnot.

The whole world has been evangelised. Many people have rejected Christianity.

Many South-East and East Asian countries, + India and the Muslim world have a strong dislike for Christian evangelists as they see them as trying to destroy their own faith.

Muslim Vikings? Allah inscriptions found on Norse burial clothing

[img]https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/file/getimagecustom/0466c972-dc36-4427-b7cf-611fb23247c9/850/479[/img]
The burial customs of the Vikings may have been influenced by Islam [Uppsala University]
Date of publication: 13 October, 2017
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Swedish researchers have discovered Arabic-language characters on Viking burial clothes, shedding light on the Muslim world's surprising links to the seafaring people. Tags: Vikings, Sweden, Islam, Muslims, Arabic.
Swedish researchers have discovered Arabic-language characters on Viking burial clothes, shedding light on the Muslim world's surprsing links to the seafaring people.

An academic at Uppsala University announced last week that she had found the words "Allah" and "Ali" on woven bands in the Kufic script at Viking-age grave sites.

"One exciting detail is that the word 'Allah' is depicted in mirror image," said Annika Larsson, researcher in textile archaeology at the Department of Archaeology and Ancient History at Uppsala University.

"It is a staggering thought that the bands, just like the costumes, was made west of the Muslim heartland. Perhaps this was an attempt to write prayers so that they could be read from left to right," Larsson explained.

"That we so often maintain that Eastern objects in Viking Age graves could only be the result of plundering and eastward trade doesn't hold up as an explanatory model because the inscriptions appear in typical Viking Age clothing that have their counterparts in preserved images of Valkyries," she added.

The researcher believes that the burial customs of the Vikings, whose advanced longships travelled as far as the Middle East and Central Asia, may have been influenced by Islam and its belief in the afterlife.

During the Middle Ages and Renaissance imitations of the ancient Kufic script were also commonly found in European depictions of scenes from the Holy Land.

The findings of the research are currently on display at Sweden's Enkoping museum until February next year.

The likely link between Viking culture, which has been embraced by far-right European nationalists, and Islam has prompted anger from some people in Sweden.

"The negative reactions have come from xenophobes, without any exceptions. It's the Muslim connection that they find particularly disturbing," Larson told Finnish national broadcaster Yle.