[quote author=SHAAWA][/quote]

I never said you shouldn't marry. I said instead of the muslim senator and your prophet marrying underage girls/children; they could refrain instead. I was given an example of being celibate than defiling young children with child marriages.

Stop complaining and saying you have your religion and we have ours. I am human-being, religion doesn't rule my life; common sense does; practicality does. I don't support gays or lesbians but I won't kill them either - they have their right to live and love. So, you can cry all you want and you should be ashamed of not condemning such inhuman practices to female children in muslim society. No wonder women as sex objects in Islamic countries and there are little to no women rights there.

Oh - so you know THIS IS A SICK PRACTICE in your religion abi?

[quote author=SHAAWA][/quote]

Oops, sorry

SHAAWA:

You see girls are allowed to marry as soon as they attain puberty but it
not a must for them to marry an older person(but they can) just as
younger men are allowed to marry older women if they(men) can cater for
them.

The story of Christ(pbuh) has not finish yet we can never tell what will happen in his second coming. He may decide to get married. No religious forbade marriage so pls dont ask us not to.

Use your brain, God has given you one. No one said you shouldn't get married - we are asking you to use common sense - don't give away children that hasn't completed their basic education to men who are old enough to be their grand-father.

WILL YOU GIVE YOUR 6 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER (ASSUMING YOU HAD ONE) TO A 54 YEAR OLD MAN?

SHAAWA:

You see girls are allowed to marry as soon as they attain puberty but it not a must for them to marry an older person(but they can) just as younger men are allowed to marry older women if they(men) can cater for them.

Madam, puberty doesn't mean a girl is matured or is ready to be a sex item. We are not talking about taking care of the person; we are talking about the abuse or young women. This practice is inhuman.

So, you are judging Christ on whether he will marry or not abi? How stup.iid can you be. Trying to bring Christ to the level of your prophet? Jesus never robbed anyone, neither did he kill anyone, he wasn't a thief and robbing caravans, he didn't steal from people, he didn't kill anyone. That is why his life-style can never be compared to your prophet!

ALSO - STOP EDITING YOUR POST AFTER YOU HAVE SUBMITTED IT

SHAAWA:

So know it is common among muslims why the criticism? besides Jesus(pbuh) was never married who knows may be he would have ended up with 6yr old.

It's common because it's only muslims that find it wise to marry their children to old 54 year old men. Perhaps Mohammed and your senator should have taken examples from Jesus and remain celibate instead of abusing young girls

SHAAWA:

I am just getting warm up, I am a proud muslim lady i can't chicken out. My prophet learned from Christ mistake of turning the other cheek and ended up hung like a common criminal that was why he fought.

Oh yeah - when did Jesus marry a 6 year old child? If you want to discuss your prophet battles and wars, I will engage you but that is not the point of discussion. Jesus willingly went to the cross, whether you believe it or not; is your cup of tea

The fact remains that child marriages are a practice in Islam and very common in countries like Northern Nigeria, Yemen and anywhere you have alot of muslims

SHAAWA:

If this your Idea to sticking to the topic, I rest my case. Besides what did I say that made you agitated? We are all talking about history here, it is on record the desciples whom he(Jesus Pbuh) perfomed all his miracles in their presence did not consider him to be God that's why they forsook him and fled.

You see - you are hear talking about Jesus

Wetin concerned Jesus with some muslims marrying underage girls? Did Jesus marry any underage children?

SHAAWA:

If this your Idea to sticking to the topic, I rest my case. Besides what did I say that made you agitated?

Bone don hook your throat and you are running off with your tail between your legs abi?

It's not a matter of been agitated; it's your justification by pointing fingers at others without doing justice to topic at hand. Instead of you to be a human being first before taking religious sides; you started justifying how 9 year olds are having kids in Texas and how Jesus disciples left him to prove He wasn't God. What has all that got to do with a Nigerian muslim senator that marries under-age girls?

SHAAWA:

You should have stick to Yerima and his exploits without bringing my prophet and religion (which you knew nothing about) to it.

Is there anything difference from what Yerima did compared to what your prophet did? In your desperate attempt to drag the Bible into it; you are justifying such cave-man like culture. So, because Mohammed married a 6 year old kid & slept with her when she was 9 - it makes it legal for an educated muslim like you in 2013 to follow such stone-age mentality?

You are talking about muslim history and Mohammed abi; if you want to debate me on it - I will gladly indulge you. It amazes me that some muslims feel because they are muslims they know more than others when it comes to Islam and Mohammed . Your Quran and hadith are books that anyone can read Bros; the life of Mohammed, the history of Islam and how it started and spread are all recorded for our reference. Mohammed raids, his numerous wives, his robberies, his killings of others and even the killing of an old woman by tying her to two camels are all recorded. His death by a Jewish woman is recorded; his refusal to allow Ali marry other wives except his daughter but he married his own son's wife is recorded. So, we don't know anything but only what the Quran, Hadith and Muslim history teaches us

SHAAWA:

I know, respect, honor, understand and believe in him and his gospel Jesus the way his discliples did. If his desciples believed he was God they would'nt have forsook him and fled.

And what has this got to do with the topic at hand? Can't you stick to the topic without bringing the Bible in. What has Jesus got to do with such teaching as marrying under-age girls? Did Jesus marry any underage children?

SHAAWA:

Read my post on page 9 please, if it fits feel free to wear it. Just
trying to let you that it is legal in some countries. Any girl who can
give birth is matured besides i said 14yrs in texas no 9.

Bros, stop trying to justify such 7th century cave-man like arabian culture. It is not legal in the US. We will put you in jail for a long time if you marry kids here, we will have you registered as a sex offender and where-ever you go, you will have to go to every home and tell them you are a child-sex offender. You will be tracked were you go and if you get to prison; your fellow prisoners will probably kill you because that is one of the crimes even criminals don't tolerate

Muslims justify pedophilic marriages with tender aged girls using verses from the Qur'an, that clearly advocates this abominable practice. The Qur'an cannot be questioned by Muslims since it's not simply considered to be 'inspired' but the very words of Allah, uttered by his final messenger Muhammad. In Islam, moral relativism cannot be applied, as the Qur'an is Allah's eternal message to mankind and is as relevant today as it were when the revelations first escaped Muhammad lips.

Another justification is that Muhammad, who is considered the Uswa Hasana (perfect example) by all Muslims, at the age of 54, also indulged in a pedophilic marriage with Aisha, a 9 year old girl.

SHAAWA:

It's legal in Texas, what do mean by maturity? when girls are giving
birth to bastards at the age of 9 in a civilised countries.

You did not answer the Biblical age limit. Thanx for the compliment for calling me a low life. I won't travel on the same path.

Come and marry here now. You ignore the topic that such stupid acts are allowed in Islam and start talking about Texas - what the heck does Texas have to do with the senator marrying kids? If kids are having bastards children in the civilized world, should Islam follow-suite? Are such actions allowed in the constitution of the state of Texas. Please show us in the constitution of Texas, where marriage to a 9 year old is legal.

The Bible doesn't mentioned an age. Also, the Bible has nothing to do with the twisted mind of your Islamic senator. However, there is no prophet in the Bible that married a 6 year old and slept with her when she was 9.

SHAAWA: What is the Biblical age of marrying a girl off? In islam is as soon as she reaches puberty. what is uncivilised about a girl marrying at 14? even in texas U.S.A the age limit is 14.

Come to the US and marry a 14 year old and you will see what will happen to you. Gosh, you are such a low-life to justify such attitude. In your mind puberty means maturity abi?

naira2009: What are all you people shouting and ranting about?? The Virgin Mary gave birth when she was aged 12-14 years. In Australia a 14 year old girl got pregnant for a 14 year old boy. Nature says a woman is ready to give birth when she starts seeing her monthly cycle. In America it islegal to marry a 14 year old girl.
Jealousy people. You ladies just dey jealous say d man no choose una to marry. ABBs people. Acquired Bad Belle Syndrome. Make I hear word jare!!!

Typical Islamic apologist tactic of jumping in another direction to avoid the savage and cave-man like attitude displayed by it's adherants. Where in the Bible did it say Mary was 12-14 years old? If you can't provide this answer, I will not be surprise

naira2009:

u dey go church dey worship Jesus Christ.Jesus Mama who be VIRGIN Mary get belle when she be 12-14 years old. She no pass 14 years when she born Jesus. So why you dey complain??

Please prove Mary was 12-14 years old from the Bible to support your statement

khattab02: Lol. Well I don't really know what u meant by offensive Jihad? Please lecture me.

Learn to read the muslim holy texts:

Sahih al-Bukhari 6924 — Muhammad said: “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: La ilaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), and whoever said La ilaha illahllah, Allah will save his property and his life from me.”

Sahih Muslim 30 — Muhammad said: “I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah.”

Why is Mohammed fighting others to believe in his religion?

herbscure02:
If you called yerima evil man what will you call Pastors or Bishop that molested small small girls

Open a thread and complain about those "pastors" and "Bishops" and see the response you will get. Don't come here and make it a religion issue. Condemn the act and call the spade a spade

GeneralShepherd:

I dropped some biblical quotations to that effect to buttress my point

Where is that in the Bible are you encouraged to marry 15 year olds?

GeneralShepherd:

All Abrahamic religions are evil!

Bros, if you don't have anything important to say, please don't say anything

Don Demu:
Did he marry or divorced his wife for the state?Nawa 4 u o

If marriage is not a contract based on the state, then what it is?

Don Demu: I knew it. I knew i will log in to Nairaland and see all these "Child Not Bride" haters spewing shit all over the place. WTF is wrong with y'all that you cant keep still for someone's private ish? Does Yerima's action mean y'all should go and marry or marry off a 9yr old? Pls leave Sharia law for muslims and go practice the religion what you wanna practice. I think the 1999 constitution is expressly clear about that. Yan bura uba kai!!

Another Mallam has just confirmed such savage attitudes are legal in Islam.

khattab02: No, read the Op again you will know the different contexts the word ''jihad'' had been used.

I agree that jihad can be used in several/different contexts; that is a no brainer. However, there is an "personal jihad", there is "defensive jihad" and even though some muslims don't want to admit it, there is "offensive jihad".

If you are open to debating these issues, I will be happy to engage you.

Rilwayne001:

And you are a clownstar

Kuz You have refused to learn

Are you saying, jihad is only a personal struggle with oneself?

khattab02: Jazakallah. Nice thread though I intended opening a thread similar to this though. Just hope many will learn from it and clear their conception.

What conception will that be?

tbaba1234: Jihad involves all that but also involves physical combat if the case arises.

Muslims engage in Jihad against their egos and desires, against injustice. Etc... It might require physical struggle too.

It is incorrect to limit the definition to just physical combat but it is also incorrect to ignore it.

An honest statement

IGBO-PRESIDENT:



Nawaoo. That was harsh. Why I'm still relenting is because I don't want to act before thinking. You know it's only a fool that acts before he thinks. Thoughts should precede action. I'm thinking of what to do now, that's why I'm seeking your opinion on this matter.
I don't want to take a rash decision because it's a very delicate matter.

Nice, that is a good approach. The only true freedom you have are the independent choices you make. Some women are terrible just as some men are terrible as well. If you ask me now, give the whole dating thing another thought after some time. Focus on something else that is positive and that will build your person. Forgive them because hating takes too much energy and is never good for your health.

golpen: And please, I give up . I'm not in for endless arguments any longer. It was really a nice chat with you.

You too Bro. Always a breath of fresh air to debate with an intelligent person and discuss religion. God bless you

golpen

Who's going in circles here? A certainty we can hold on to is the is my grasshopper theory and its there!!! You're the one trying to change the text that is verbatim and crystal clear.

No one is denying grasshopper was mentioned. The bone of contention is the EXACT height of the giants; something that wasn't stated in the text. A clear example would be, the giants were 60 cubits tall. That is why there was no debate about Adams height in the Hadith, nor that of Goliath or Og. No one is trying to change anything; the issue here is you can only see grass-hopper. and not answering my question.

You do the experiment and maths yourself. Multiply the number of grasshopper heights that makes yours with your actual height

My height is irrelevant to the discussion. We don't know how tall the Scouts were nor do we know how tall the Giants were. Anything else would be considered unfounded

The fact from the text is that the scouts looked like grasshoppers in the sights of the giants. Shikena!!! Bros you stubborn o

My point is simple - we have no means of judging of the actual size of these men, unless the height assigned to Goliath or deduced from Og's bed. The statement may have been figurative, hyperbole or literal. Either way, you or I can't tell from the text. If that is hard to understand, then there is nothing more to say to you.

I agree with you, only if you tell me what you'd call a man who signs up to an account of a man looking like a grasshopper in the sights of another man worse still one who claims his holy scripture has accounts of exaggeration

Cheap tactic of dodging my question and focusing on the Bible instead.

You would also claim you addressed my questions even when you failed to produce a single fact. My grasshopper theory is biblical, my mutation theory is scientific. pleas what's is your exaggeration and assumption theory

All my statements have been from the Bible. I answered your fossil question we have in present day Wisconsin, so far you have been silent on that. I demonstrated Biblical records of actual measurements of Giants in the Bible, you said it was irrelevant. I stated and still state that there is no information to determine the Giants height in Numbers 13:33 but you are blind to that.

You've started with your assumptions again. How is it an ignorant statement?

Did you research the lineage of these Giants before you stated you don't care about their lineage?

Read clear bro... You missed the question mark

Na simple question na - tell us where in the Bible that it stated the first man God created was 90 feet tall. You don't have to dodge this bullet, it's a direct one

Please tell me how the scouts described their heights as against the giants

The shouts never stated their heights or did the author of this book in the Bible. It gave a figurative description of them.

I'm just human and I agree I must have mixed it since I don't know the figures. See I admit, and that's how a big heart does, not sticking to assumptions and false excuses while debating accusing someone else of going in circles when you're the victim.

You admit because you lied earlier. I have told you no lies Bros; we might have differences in our religion and may have different beliefs but I have been very honest with you. However, that doesn't answer my question - How old is the Quran/Hadith explanation of the creation of man?

I don't blame the guy because he is an ignorant originally, I only blame you for ignorantly following the blind and with this, you have just shattered your prestige I hold you on, because I thought you could make your own research and you accuse me of not being able to make research. I'll help you with just one out of many. Do you know ibn sina? Please search

I wasn't quoting anyone, I was referring to myself. One can be a Muslim without been an Arab, however no Muslim can deny that Arabian culture and way of life heavily influences Islam as a religion. List one major scientific break-through in the last 150 years of any Islamic country. The car you drive, your computer, your phone, electricity, medicine, agriculture, the internet you use and the servers that power these forums aren't Islamic discoveries or inventions. I am not trying to play down Islam, however - we should be honest irrespective of our religious leanings.

golpen

My grasshopper theory is biblical, so you know who to blame and that is the measure when their's no concrete evidence because it's what we've got, not ASSUMPTIONS

A true measure is confirmation of their exact height - something that the text doesn't state. You can go around in circles but it doesn't change the text

We need facts, not people's look at situations. Be factual please. My biblical grasshopper theory is factual, you can read it too.

Again, if you can prove their stated heights, then you have provided facts; until you can, you speaking without words

Your assumption theory is getting out of hands. Can't you produce facts?

FACT FROM THE TEXT = THERE IS NO WHERE IN THE TEXT, THE HEIGHTS OF THESE GIANTS WERE MENTIONED.

Nope mr, it is not an assumption. The height of some giants were given in detail in some biblical accounts, why not these? Okay let me make another assumption please; the tape rule was too short to measure their heights

Good question? Why didn't the Hadith tell us Eve's height or the number of years it takes for man to shrink from one size to the other? . If an event is not capture, it simply means it wasn't capture. Only fools will sign up for such courses

You had your reservations about the hadith and I thrashed it. Here, you are accusing biblical accounts as exaggerated and I was trying to protect that fine book

Trashed it . You have already conceded that the 90 feet Adam is not scientific so there is no need to say anything else.

I don't care about their lineage, they aren't the anakims in question

.

Another ignorant statement from someone that can't research

From the bible?

And where in the the Bible does it show God created Adam as 90 feet tall? This is getting interesting. Please refer to the Book, the chapter and the verse(s)

Your exaggeration theory has not been confined or confirmed in that biblical story which makes it all worse or maybe my tickling finger to giggle . And then you know I won't admire you bragging on producing nothing but assumptions and possible explanations (you admitted to that pls read above in case you forget) not facts.

Yes I did. However, I never said the Bible did. The point is simple, the height of these giants were never stated. You are the one stating otherwise. I still find it interesting why the Bible came into the picture when it is the Hadith that claimed Adam was 90 feet tall

Your question at the hadith is an effort to antagonise the muslim inventions and scientific pre-information in islam. However, you've tried too and thanks for the appreciation, but mind you, Adam lived thousands of years before 7th century

If one waits patiently, a muslim will ALMOST ALWAYS shoot themself in the foot. First, you said the creation of Adam was millions of years old as compared the dinosuars which there thousands of years old. You are now here stating that that he lived thousands of years before the 7th century. Interesting . How old is the Quran/Hadith explanation of the creation of man?

Take this from someone which Arabian lineage. The creative impulse underlying Islamic art, Islamic philosophy, Islamic science and Islamic literature came from outside Islam, from contact with older civilizations with a richer heritage. Artistic, philosophical, and scientific traditions were totally lacking in Arabia. Only poetry emerged from the Arab past, and its continued creativity owed little to spedifically Islamic inspiration. Without Byzantine art and Sassanian art there would have been no Islamic art, Islam was hostile to it's development. Similarly, without the influence of Greek philosophy and Greek science there would not have been Islamic philosophy or Islamic science for Islam was certainly ill-disposed to these "foreign sciences". For the orthodox, Islamic philosophy was a contradiction in terms and Islamic science futile.

golpen

Ok ok ok...it's okay.

I already made that point by saying not absolute, but by saying they looked like grasshoppers in the giants' sight, that is confirmed enough a record.

An agreeable analysis, non the less an analysis

I think you should stop right here because you're getting yourself trapped. I accused you of making assumptions and you're confirming it's true that you're making assumptions, but you know assumptions aren't too acceptable in debates.

Bros, we make assumptions/possible outcomes when there is no concrete evidence. There is no concrete evidence of the height of these giants; you are the one insisting on your grasshopper theory

Secondly, you're going against your own self first by saying they exaggerated and now, look at what you said above. Haba!!!

The exaggeration was brought up as a result of the "evil report". I was displaying how several people could look at the situation but here you are stating it's my stand on the matter. My stand is simple as I have answered you earlier - THERE IS NO INFORMATION TO DETERMINE THE EXACT HEIGHT OF THE GIANTS. You can keep your grass-hopper theory if you like, I guess it's similar to your "mutation" theory

The evil report isn't an evidence for reason of exaggeration. The evil report is that they actually looked like grasshoppers in their sights and they feared loosing, only for caleb who trusted God to win!!!

Unfortunately, the text doesn't provide that explanation. All I offered was assumptions and possible explanations but like always; you have taken it and ran with it in another direction. Either way - the height of the GIANTS was never mentioned.

How would they have measure what they feared? grin but the description of what they could easily draft is they looked like GRASSHOPPERS in their sights, which is good enough a measure. They could have looked like younger brothers or ants! Why grasshoppers?

Now that is an assumption . Well done, you are following along

Whoa! But I don't remember the bible has a mouth to speak except for what's in it and I don't remember saying the bible exaggerated, I mean some accounts in it. And what makes it worthy by that?

.

It's amazing how this has turn to a Bible debate

Your og and goliath weren't the anakims we are discussing. Their accounts are irrelevant and a distraction to this debate. Never bring them up again. smiley

Really, please check their lineage before you shoot yourself in the foot

The bible is what you believe in and you wouldn't believe an hadith. Maybe a bible account may help you learn. That's what the muslims are like. We learn from others and we don't sit in peering at the window of our religion to criticise.

So where did Muslim learn that Adam was 90 feet tall?

You just say you are coy on your account of the biblical anakims which maybe embarrassing to you and you assuming that account is exaggerating is eeerrrmm... SNOOP DOGG

Coy!, you don't say. All my answers have been confined to the texts you mentioned in the Bible. Your "mutation" theory is my snooze button to laugh during this discussion. However, I admire you that you admitted you there is no scientific basis for Islam account of Adam being 90 feet.

Your questions at the Bible are efforts to justify such 7th century fairy tales. However, I appreciate you

golpen:

I don't really have a problem with waiting, only I can't find a fossil record of a grape too big that two grown men had to carry

Join an archaeology team, you might get lucky. While you are at it; see if you can spot any of the millions of 90 feet people that lived during Adams time