The issue of racism is a touchy subject in Muslim history and a well documented one at that. Even amongst the Arabs, there was always a superior tribe:

Sahih Bukhari 9:89:329 = Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish."

Here, Mohammad said his tribe will be the ruling class of the Arabs. In other places, Allah or whosoever that is talking in the Quran said some Arabs are inferior in race:

Surah 9:97 = The Arabs of the desert are the worst in Unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger: But Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.

Even among Arabs themselves, there was racism and Mohammad said his Quraish tribe will rule. There is a lot of evidence confirming certain racist remarks he made about black people:

Sahih Bukhari 9:89:256 = Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin."

Here, we clearly see that a non black slave was worth two black slaves

Sahih Muslim 10:3901 = J[i]abir (Allah be pleased with him) reported: There came a slave and pledg- ed allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man)[/i]

Al-Tabari, Vol. 2, p. 11, p. 11 = Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.

Sahih Bukhari 9:87:161 = Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "I saw (in a dream) a black woman with unkempt hair going out of Medina and settling at Mahai'a, i.e., Al-Juhfa. I interpreted that as a symbol of epidemic of Medina being transferred to that place (Al-Juhfa)."

There are two many Hadiths and Islamic sources to quote. It's hard to claim that Mohammad either didn't respect blacks or was racist.

vedaxcool: The Prophet Muhammad's Last Sermon

---

This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of Dhul Hijjah 10 A.H.
in the'Uranah valley of Mount Arafat' (in Mecca).
After praising, and thanking Allah he said:
"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.
O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. Allah has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn 'Abd'al Muttalib (Prophet's uncle) shall henceforth be waived...
Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.
O People, listen to me in earnest, worship Allah, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajjif you can afford to.
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURANand my example, the SUNNAHand if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to

I think more of his last sermon should be preached in mosques and muslim communities more often. That been said, how do we reconcile that he said the following:

The Quran plainly tells Muslims that they are a favored race, while those of other religions are “perverted transgressors”:

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (Surah 3:110)

The Quran dehumanizes non-Muslims, describing them as “animals” and beasts:

Those who disbelieve from among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (Surah 98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (Surah 8:55)

In such cases, which text should we follow. You have Allah saying that Muslims are the best of people and non muslims are the worst of creatures. So, should we listen to Allah or should we listen to Mohammad's last message on the mount over the Quran?

deols:

Report them. i cant read all posts..You have to report the posts that are against the rules.

Also, post yourbcomplaints on the thread meant for complaints and not here

Sure, which thread is that?

vedaxcool: obviously there is a communication gap, despite showing u the context of my statement, u insist on being what gronzyware labels u. I leave u with the words if your brother,

www.nairaland.com/1260481/boko-haram-not-islamic-organisation-babangida/10#15525640

As usual, running away with your tail between your legs .

lanrexlan: SubhanAllah!! Even after I apologized to you? This is rubbish I swear,it's now more than 4times that you've repeated the same thing.Very bad of you,I don't know what to say of you anymore.

Moreover,my brother's name is VEDAXCOOL.I am outta here,the moderator has issued a warning.

For some reason, I got used to vexacool . I will correct myself next time. 4 times or 100 times makes no difference. You didn't see your brother VEDAXCOOL repeating the same thing abi?

vedaxcool:

Don't sweat it, if calling me vexacool will let him sleep well at night, why should we deprive him of that? The same personal attacks he claims other do, is the same thing he resorts to when he runs out of script! He has to repeat the same issue 4 times because in his own case his own christian brother called him out as a Liar! Now that in itself is sad.

You think I care if someone else calls me a liar? . You are the chief of them. Can you please provide a response to the thread

lanrexlan: That's the truth,Seriously I don't know cloudstar is the same as alexis.Why swaping accounts mate? From Alexis to soundpoint and now cloudstar.
Is it because people have known alexis as a guy that always bent on accepting the truth?

Here is the thread calling me a liar and later retracting it:

https://www.nairaland.com/1260103/how-muslims-teach-non-muslims-islam/37#16307152

Please pass it along to [url]vexacool[/url] so he can add it to his collection

deols

Moderator, you are hiding my posts; yet you are leaving others that haven't confined themselves to this thread but have decided to attack other character. I ask that you be fair

vedaxcool

Ah ah now, I am sure you can backup your statement with some facts:

Can you show us where JESUS in the BIBLE didn't tolerate blasphemy. I am assuming the word "not tolerate" here means using the sword or cutting off limbs and heads to show His intolerance.

We are waiting for your response oh!

vedaxcool: Still I feel sorry for u, or should I remove my post to ease whatever heartache u are going thru? It is most unfortunate when the past ask us why we still thread this same path we should desist from!

With all your pity, you haven't even addressed the theme of this thread . Please don't remove anything oh!. You are known for even attacking your own "Muslims" that do not share your views.

The poster said the Hadith Al-Bukhari fabricated the death of Mohammad. Can you please respond . You have the entire 2014 to attack my character

vedaxcool:

Usually the message is lost . . .

Can you show us where JESUS in the BIBLE didn't tolerate blasphemy. I am assuming the word "not tolerate" here means using the sword or cutting off limbs and heads to show His intolerance

vedaxcool: Obviously, something I said has hit a raw nerve, I feel sorry that u r hurt by what I said, though it hurts the truth remains the truth, and that is what ur brother said to u. Sorry, get well soon.

Said to me? - no one said anything to me mate. It's normal for Islamic apologists to attack other character - as if that will change anything. Whenever people put Islam history under a micro-scope, you guys got all sorts of names for them. We are waiting for an actual contribution to the topic at hand.

See as Sunnis they flog Shittes for not praying.:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKkH6tcW8Ec#t=77

vedaxcool

Yes even Jesus would not tolerate blasphemy. and the bible recommends execution for blasphemy, we muslims cannnot condition ourselves to like blasphemy.

Can you show us where Jesus recommends execution for blasphemy?

vedaxcool:

lol , well he is the same guy with this person https://www.nairaland.com/1260481/boko-haram-not-islamic-organisation-babangida/10#15525640 whose fellow christian condemned for being a liar!

So, vexacool creeps from his cave hole to the real world. He is known as the master of personal attacks. Alexis was the same person that showed you in your Hadith that Allah can be described as an image in the minds of Muslims. Again, he was called a LIAR but later, the same muslims came back to swallow their words and said he wasn't.

We all know you can't contribute anything tangible. Your Shitte brother called the Hadith of Al-bukhari a fabrication, you turn a blind eye to that and instead start with your personal attacks. Keep trying Bros

Al-Baqir:
" No wealth like intelligence and no poverty harsher
than ignorance."~Imam Ali (a.s)

Imam Ali (a.s) said to Malik al-Ashtar:

O Malik, the owners of weak conviction are
disregarding their personality...

Yet Imam Ali head was cut off during one of the Caliphs wars. Still showing the deep division and hatred between the Sunnis and Shias

Al-Baqir:
^@cloudstar,
It is no surprise you result into repetition of one feeble argument since the beginning of your propaganda. You neither want to reason logically nor willing to accept scientific explanation.
It is simply a waste of time and a futile effort opening a dialogue with an adamant, static and desperate fellow like you. Little wonder why your 'star is cloudy' (cloudstar).

I will give you a pass for character attacks; most Muslims who can't engage is scholastic debate result to such bigotry. In this new year, I pray you have some sense of honesty in dealing with your own religious belief. All you have shown is the hatred between the popular sects in Islam and mainly toward your own religion. I pray the Almighty God will reveal Himself to you. Happy new year!

RoyPCain: @cannonnier; to believe that the taurat and injeel were not corrupted by the time the prophet [SA] are far from the statement of the Quran and the general knowledge of the muslims. Allah allows the consumption of their meat then, in spite of their beliefs and today is not a new thing because you have to pronounce the bismAllah on all foods to before consumption.



@cloudstar; Allah says in Surah Azhab that the prophet [SA] should be conscious of Allah. The prophet [SA] is the first of those who fear or conscious of Allah. This command is not made because he [SA] was slacking. but what we know is that we are to be conscious, emulating the prophet [SA], submitting in utmost willingness. the death of the prophet [SA] was not by means of the poison that had no effect from when it was consumed throughout the 3 years. you couldn't say that the poison was dormant for that long because it was potent from the moment it got into the mouth as someone [RA] died, instantly. the prophet [SA] is the biggest of the martyr and his death had to have the 'feeling' of pain, and there is no death without some form of pain on the dying, anyway. for a mortal, he {SA] had to die and Allah chose whatever way that praised Him, elevating the status of His Prophet [SA] by it.

disbelief which is why you are proposing that the death must be by the inactive poison when it was most concentrated at consumption, is conjecture, similar to the conjecture of the christians saying without assurance that Jesus died on the cross. Quran leads to guidance and to the disbelievers, it leads to disbelief.

New age muslims always want to add new meaning or ignore their own history. HOWEVER YOU PUT IT, MOHAMMAD DIED FROM THE POISON OF A JEWISH WOMAN.

Ibn 'Abbas replied, "That indicated the death of Allah's Apostle which Allah informed him of." 'Umar said, "I do not understand of it except what you understand." Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 713)

Narrated AbuSalamah:

Muhammad ibn Amr said on the authority of AbuSalamah, and he did not mention the name of AbuHurayrah: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to accept presents but not alms (sadaqah).This version adds: So a Jewess presented him at Khaybar with a roasted sheep which she had poisoned. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) ate of it and the people also ate.He then said: Take away your hands (from the food), for it has informed me that it is poisoned. Bishr ibn al-Bara' ibn Ma'rur al-Ansari died.So he (the Prophet) sent for the Jewess (and said to her): What motivated you to do the work you have done? She said: If you were a prophet, it would not harm you; but if you were a king, I should rid the people of you. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) then ordered regarding her and she was killed. He then said about the pain of which he died: I continued to feel pain from the morsel which I had eaten at Khaybar. This is the time when it has cut off my aorta. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 39, Number 4498)

There is too much evidence to state he died otherwise . Instead of you folks to present concrete evidence that he died otherwise - you are hear attacking and denying your own early and in most cases authoritative muslim sources

Al-Baqir

Cloudstar, why are you reasoning like a deluded ignorant?

When you claim to be a scientifical researcher, I thought your level of understanding shouldn't be easily block. A scientist of any field rely much on empirical argument.

For the last time brother. Books of Hadith and books of History are not like the Holy Qur'an. Those books are fallible; unfortunately, publicity and dogmatism over the years make them 'infallible' in the eyes of innocent muslims.

Hahahaha - what is the difference between the Quran and say the Hadith Al-Bukhari? I asked you a question earlier, the Sunni version of the Quran has 114 Surahs and the Shiite version has 115 Surahs. Which is the original copy in heaven?

When Qur'an says: "...and Allah will protect you from (evil plot of) man", then how can a poisoned meat affect the prophet? Alas! The hadith of the poisoned meat concluded when the prophet realized the meat has been poisoned, he sought divine help, and they all ate the meat. The poison was render useless. However, if another hadith now claimed he complaint 4years later, then you have a more complicated issues on the table apart from being contradictory.

The Quran also claimed that Adam was 90 feet tall! It also claimed that the earth is flat - are those statements true in the light of present day science? You can challenge the authenticity of the Hadiths, it makes little difference to the topic at hand.

The hadith that says the prophet complaint about the poison he took at khaybar on his death-bed does not stand to reasoning not to talk about being scientific. How is it possible that:

He said that was the reason why he died and his child bride also said the same thing. You are here trying desperately to say it's not TRUE

1. One of his companion died immediately he ate the poisoned meat and the rest including the prophet remained alive?

What is hard to believe here? Typhoid fever can kill others in a day or less and others can withstand it not even knowing they had it. The fact remains that Mohammad's death was CLEARLY related to the poison he ate.

2. Why would such poison took its deadly effect on the prophet 4years after?

Very good question. You are the doubting Thomas - The Islamic sources clearly said he died of it and the narration stated that they saw the effect of the poison on his mouth.

3. Ali ibn Abi talib lived more than 30years after the death of the prophet and he ate the poisoned meat too!

Can you prove that he died otherwise and not from the poison?

4. What is the prove of the prophet (Bukhari's claim) that it was the poisoned meat that has affected him at his death-bed, 4years past?

Not only Bukhari confirmed it Bros, it's in several other Hadiths

Islam is not a dogmatic religion. Islam is a religion of sensibility.
Only Qur'an was written, verified and approved by the prophet in his life-time. Books of hadith and history were not.

YOU LIE - Mohammad never wrote nor compiled the Quran during his life-time. I CHALLENGE YOU TO PROVE THIS

Again! If the holy Qur'an can open the door of scrutiny (in any means man could think of) to itself, then what is sahih bukhari, sahih muslim et al that will be left un-scrutinized?

Really, the Quran states in several places that you shouldn't question it, so you have no point here Bros

Whatever in the books of hadith that is contradictory to Qur'anic principles is rejected to be fabricated. This is one of the acid-tests any hadith will pass through for it to be dimmed authentic.

Oh yeah - then please tell me from the Quran how Mohammad died?

Shahada, pillars of Islam et al are in the holy Qur'an and any hadith that give a detail account must not derail from the Qur'an.

Really!. Please show me in the Quran where Salaat (pray 5 TIMES A DAY IS given as an instruction).

RoyPCain: @cannonnier; to believe that the taurat and injeel were not corrupted by the time the prophet [SA] are far from the statement of the Quran and the general knowledge of the muslims. Allah allows the consumption of their meat then, in spite of their beliefs and today is not a new thing because you have to pronounce the bismAllah on all foods to before consumption.



@cloudstar; Allah says in Surah Azhab that the prophet [SA] should be conscious of Allah. The prophet [SA] is the first of those who fear or conscious of Allah. This command is not made because he [SA] was slacking. but what we know is that we are to be conscious, emulating the prophet [SA], submitting in utmost willingness. the death of the prophet [SA] was not by means of the poison that had no effect from when it was consumed throughout the 3 years. you couldn't say that the poison was dormant for that long because it was potent from the moment it got into the mouth as someone [RA] died, instantly. the prophet [SA] is the biggest of the martyr and his death had to have the 'feeling' of pain, and there is no death without some form of pain on the dying, anyway. for a mortal, he {SA] had to die and Allah chose whatever way that praised Him, elevating the status of His Prophet [SA] by it.

disbelief which is why you are proposing that the death must be by the inactive poison when it was most concentrated at consumption, is conjecture, similar to the conjecture of the christians saying without assurance that Jesus died on the cross. Quran leads to guidance and to the disbelievers, it leads to disbelief.

Whatever I have said has been from Muslim earliest authentic sources. From what it looks like, it is only Shitte muslims on this thread that hold alternate views that Mohammad died otherwise. If Muslims wants to cherry pick what they believe from THEIR OWN TRADITIONS, then I can only imagine what harm that brings to Islam.

If you doubt the death of Mohammad on account of the Hadiths, then you should doubt the entire Hadiths - that means, you should doubt pasrts of the 5 pillars of Islam that are direct instructions from the Hadiths and not from the Quran i.e. like the Shahada, Salaat. These are DIRECT instructions from the Hadiths that YOU muslims are bringing into question.

RoyPCain

haji and acrefice; surah baqarah verse 196;

there are many verses also talking about details of hajj to include the going around the kaaba, the running between safa and marwa, the station of Ibrahim [AS] where he prayed and each hajji is required to do the same. the gathering on mount araf is also indicated being the hajj itself, no hajj for the one that misses this event.

You keep missing my point. My point is simple, not all the 5 pillars of Islam are not direct instructions you find in the Quran. For example, the Hajj & Salaat. There is no where in the Quran where it is taught that the Hajj is one of the 5 pillars of Islam. My argument has nothing to do with the mention of the word "Hajj" in the Quran

as to salat; surah isra speaks of prayers in daylight time till sun sets to cover dhur, asr and magrib; it covers fajr or subh as well, being the very early morning prayer ending when the sun begins to be visible as in rising.

The Quran covers praying 3 times a day and NOT 5. The Hadith covers praying 5 times a day. Again, this has always been my stand. Certain instructions are not comprehensive or stated in the Quran but are clearly mentioned and expounded on in the Hadiths such as the Shahada, Salaat and others.

evidently, if things are not in the most elementary presentation you dont understand it because it becomes hard, advance and cloudy.

I am following facts stated both in the Quran and Hadith - you are the one adding additional interpretation to them

Allah talks about middle prayer to indicate the commanded daily prayers are odd number amount ; i bet you know the middle prayers thereby giving us the names of the salat before and after to see if you know what is meant by 'middle prayer'.

Please show me in the Quran where Muslims are taught to pray 5 times a day

Allah talks about shortening prayers to indicate not subh and magrib, but others;

Irrevelant

the timing of salat is mentioned indicating specific time for each salah; oro you know the ting as demad in the Quran provided to us by the legislation of the messenger [SA] under the commandment of Allah?

Again, where are muslims taught to pray 5 TIMES in the Quran

Al-Baqir

Really its always being difficult to dialogue with a cunning individual like you. What is your affiliation? You are scared to reveal it.

My affiliation has nothing to do with the subject at hand .

You immediately deny being a Christian since there's impending danger on the way.

Read my post again - I said you shouldn't assume presence of Christianity if there is an absence of Islam. Most Muslims are known to start attacking Christendom as if it will change the topic at hand.

On the other hand I doubt you are a muslim at all because paul was greater than Muhammad (saws) in your own thought.

Again, mis-quoting me. I said the two men had a common denominator; they were poisoned. Once shook it off and lived. The other died from it. Muslims claim Mohammad is the last and greatest of the prophets and in comparison with a mere man like Paul; he died of poison. Paul was mentioned because he was poisoned as well. I have no affiliation with Paul . Who obviously has a higher resistance to poison that Mohammad

If you are 'Quran alone' type, then why using what you don't believe in for a moment (i.e books of Hadith)?

If you are a free-thinker, why do you adamantly choose to accept sahih al-Bukhari, sahih Muslim et al simply based on the fact that they are the most popular books of hadith for majority of the muslim?

I am a historian, a researcher, a scientist, a believer in a Supreme Intelligent being that is just, loving, kind, holy, all wise, all knowing and PERFECT. You are fighting a battle and a war that you CAN'T WIN. No matter the outcome of our discussion, there is no way where you come out making any sense . Your opinion in this matter is irrelevant and the reason is simple - if we decided to trace the EARLIEST sources of Islamic texts regarding Mohammad's death from several Islamic sources, be it the Sunni or Shia/Shiite schools of jurisprudence; the result will be the same.

Since when majority believe in something make it AUTHENTIC? What kind of reasoning is that? According to population, Christian are the majority and no doubt Bible is more popular than Qur'an. Does that make those right?

Your analogy doesn't contribute to the subject at hand . If all Islamic terrorists were Christian evangelists, would the world be a better/safer place? . Your guess is as good as mine

There isn't a SINGLE evidence that Allah in the Qur'an or Muhammad (saws) EVER authenticated those books (Bukhari and Muslim) or any other books for that matter after Qur'an. Then where's the rationality of Bukhari and Muslim are the most authentic books after Qur'an surfaced from? Its only a myth.

Mohammad never wrote the Quran either, not a single Surah. Again, this is where you will have to go through HISTORY to trace the source of the compilation of the Quran. Interestingly, this brings out several questions:

1. My first challenge to you is to provide a quote from a reliable source written within 100 years after Muhammad’s death (633 AD) which expressly and unambiguously says that the Quran consists of 114 chapters, no more no less
2. I challenge you to cite a reference from this early period that clearly says that all of these 114 suras were transmitted through Muhammad. I want the Muslim polemicists to provide conclusive historic proofs that other messengers or prophets whose names are not mentioned in the Quran did not compose some of these surahs.

I hope you can do justice to the questions I have asked above.

Today many muslims have been brainwashed and conditioned to believe that Bukhari and Muslim are unquestionably authentic even if there are some text that blatantly oppose Qur'an in them. I am sorry Al-baqir is not one of those. My belief is: no books of hadith, be it Sunni or shi'i is immune from errors and lies. Verifications based on Qur'an and some other rational mean will separate grain from chaff. I have done just that for you.

You have given me the OPINION of only ONE MUSLIM out of probably 1.5 billion . Also, you haven't told me which Hadith is authentic and which one isn't; I hope you can be honest enough to list each one stating whether they are authentic or not and how many Muslims believe in them. Let me give you a simple example: The Sunnis believe in the 114 Surah of the Quran, the Shia/Shittes believe in the same thing with an addition of an extra Surah making it 115. My question to you is this - which version of the Quran is in Heaven and which version did Gabriel recite to Mohammad?

I've opened several threads on some issue based on the two books of hadith and have tried to expose them perhaps you can see how sceptical I am based on their narration:

1. www.nairaland.com/1501204/how-true-narrations-sahih-bukhari

2. www.nairaland.com/1513498/why-fasting-day-ashura-need

3. www.nairaland.com/1452472/aisha-9-17-when-she
Etc etc.

There is nothing new about your stance Bros. Several Muslims apologists take the same stance - cherry picking what they want to believe and what they don't want to believe. At the same time, driving the discord of disunity between the Sunni and Shitte sects.

If you are a free-thinker, you shouldn't take any side, and logic and rationality should have been your yardstick. I have given you just that but you refuse to answer logically rather you adamantly stick with: "Muhammad was killed with poison, then he was a fake prophet. It is there in your book - Bukhari".

I never said he was a FAKE prophet . Please try and calm down and read my posts. I said if he was the "greatest and seal of all the prophets" as Muslims claim; why did he die of poison? I have proven and proven and proven to you based on several different Hadiths that his death was attributed to the poison the Jewish lady gave him. All the Hadiths that I quoted are older than the Hadiths you mentioned. You have made your position clear - you don't believe in Al-Bukhari or Sahih Muslim (the only reason I can think about is that they are Sunni and you are Shitte). It's arrogance for a man who has no PROOF or traceable evidence to suggest that the earliest narrations of Muslims that existed way before any of his generation was born is a LIAR. I wish you could say that on national TV

That is being desperate and foolish.

That is an accurate description of yourself. I am not a Muslim; you are!. You are the one showing disunity and dishonestly to your traditions based on your sect. If I wanted to be a Muslim based on your attitude, Islam will be my last option.

Qur'an which ALL muslim believe to be 100% says don't just believe stupidly and verbally, take up the challenge and scrutinize its veracity but in your own sick mentality, on the issue of Muhammad's death (and other issue yet to reveal), Bukhari, Muslim and others should not be scrutinized because its an existing most popular evidence and reference for your cursed agenda - that Muhammad was a fake prophet (nauthubillah) because he died of poison.

Again, I never said he was fake neither did the Hadiths. They recorded his death, the reason he died and how he died. You came close to 1,400 years later and talking as if you were there

My questions and rational arguments are still there for you awaiting an equally rational answer to them.

Rational! You are kidding right?

"PLUNGE INTO THE DEPTHS UNTIL YOU REACH THE TRUTH" ~ Imam Ali (a.s).

Ah - it's confirmed! you are Shia/Shitte! . No wonder the refusal of Al-bukhari and others. Makes complete sense now.

If you however maintain your hoax, then I resign because I have been warned:

Running away with your tail between your legs huh? You have summed up your version of Islam for me.

"I have never argued with an ignorant fool and won; nor have I argued with a rational person and lost"- Imam Ali (as).

Imam Ali don suffer oh!. I can't engage in scholarship with you. It's physically tiring. It shocks me that such stance are the very essence that breaks the bonds in Islam. I am not surprised - it is been displayed in Syria and Iraq today. Good luck and happy new year

Al-Baqir

Who exactly is asking for a muslim's text for verification? A paul follower! Wonder shall never end. You've shot yourself at the leg the moment you brought your master Paul into play. That reveal your evil secret.

So, when someone is not a Muslim, he or she is automatically a Christian. Such daft approach is the one of the reason you ignore history. The mention of Paul came about because like Mohammad, he was poisoned. However, unlike Mohammad, he lived. The point is simple, a mere man lived and the "So called greatest of all prophets" succumbed to poison from a woman whose tribe he wiped out. Another history lesson for your perspective.

Islam is a logical and intellectual religion unlike the one Paul brainwashed you with.

Logical & intellectual! Are you for real? A religion that tells people to drink camels urine to cure illness is logical and intellectual? You have summarized your intelligence.

Do you or will you believe in the veracity of hadith that says you and paul are inmates of Hell?

The veracity of the Hadith makes no difference to me. Who are you compared to the authors of the various Hadiths? Are you more authoritative than they are. Are you more knowledgeable than they are? You accused the other Muslim poster of being salafist in order to justify your refusal to accept Islamic history on the death of Mohammad. Bros, HISTORY is not on your side. You remind of one of those people who post stickers on their cards - MY MIND IS MADE UP, DON'T CONFUSE ME WITH THE FACTS. I sincerely feel sorry for you.

Traceable account? Lol!
Why don't you trace many myth in your bible perhaps your blocked heart can be open for the truth?

Typical muslim tactic of ignoring the question and running off in another direction. I AM STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ACCOUNT OF HIS DEATH

1. When your bible says Adam and Eve hide themselves in the garden of Eden when they ate forbidden fruit, your Lord God descended walking through the garden like a giant man searching for Adam and Even screaming: "Adam where are thou?"

Another sign of the growth of your brain! How is showing us your account of Mohammad's death related in anyway to Adam and Eve? Perhaps you can through light on how Islamic account confirmed that Adam was 60 cubits tall or 90 feet tall.

2. Why is Catholic bible with 76books different from protestant's bible with 66 books? Why that of Jehovah witness different from others?
Why only KJV recorded 1st Epistle of John 5: 7 which talks about trinity but ALL other versions of the bible forgot to record that verse?

Call the Pope and asked him. While you are at it - please ADDRESS MY BASIC QUESTION: What is your account of Mohammad's death?

3. When your lord and savior says he will emulate the miracle of prophet jonah who lived in the belly of the whale for 3days and 3nights and did not die, so shall he too be in the heart of the earth for 3days and 3nights. Perhaps you can trace the Paul's mistake who reported your lord died on friday and ressurected on sunday before dawn which was never equivalent to 3days and 3nights.

Another display of how logical and intelligent you are. Listen, if you can't give an alternate account of Mohammad's death, I told you to SIT DOWN & SHUT-UP

Can you explain why one of Muhammad(saws)'s companion died on the spot while he ate the poisoned meat but it took Muhammad 4 years before the poison could take effect as explain in the hadith?

You are Muslim, the explanation is up to you; not me - what text are you believing that his companions died? Isn't it the same Hadith that you are vehemently denying

Okay he had the anti-dote with him! Right?

Bros, please act up to your intelligence and provide some Islamic references to support your statements. So far, you are working on empty air.

Perhaps you go and consult doctors on the effect of deadly poison - a person that can kill a man on the spot. Can a man survive such poison for 4years without a problem until the moment of his death?

No one is denying that another person died from the same poison. That doesn't change the fact that Mohammad died from it over a period of time

So why don't you leave "more educated muslims" to take up the challenge?
Since when you become their spokesman mr paul?
You even want to trace 'book of hadith' for them. Funny guy!

It's in your history Bros - I don't need to be a muslim to read it

According to Allamah Majlisi in Bihar Anwar vol. 17
p. 318-319, after the conquest of khaybar in 7 A.H, a Jewess woman who had pretended to accept Islam
presented the holy prophet (saws) with a cooked
lamb, poisoned to seek revenge out of the prophet
for the death of his family in the battle. A sahaba
named al-Bara Ibn Marur took the meat without
prophet's permission...and ate. He collapsed and
died. The holy prophet knew the meat had been
poisoned. He ordered the arrest of the woman and
asked her why she poisoned the meat. She revealed
her intention and added: "You have caused me a
great disaster, You have killed my father, my
uncle ...so I did what I did saying to myself, 'If he
were a king, I would seek revenge against him, but if he were a prophet, as he claims, having promised to conquer Mecca and to bring victory, Allah will
protect him from it (the poison), and it will not harm him."
The prophet said "O woman, you have said the
truth"... He (saws) then called upon 10s of sahaba, sit them around the meat, put his hand on the poisoned meat, blew breath over it and said: "In the name of Allah al-shafi, the healer..." Prophet and all the sahaba present ate. The woman saw that with her own eyes...and embraced Islam..."

Really! Let me get this straight. You are choosing and cherry picking the Hadith and refuse all other authoritative Islamic texts on the issue . CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A REFERENCE TO THIS HADITH SO I CAN CONFIRM IT. Here is my online source: http://www.searchtruth.com/hadith_books.php. Let's get into it, shall we:

I will use quotes from 4 highly respected Islamic writings:

1. "Sahih Bukhari”. This Hadith is considered to be the most important Islamic book, after the Quran. If I am understanding what you are saying, your stance is that Bukhari hadith is false on the account of Mohammad's death? PLEASE CONFIRM BROS
2. Ibn Ishaq's biography, the "Sirat Rasul Allah", (THE LIFE OF THE PROPHET), translated by A. Guillaume as "The Life of Muhammad", is the most authentic Sirat (biographical) literature recognized in Islam.
3. Ibn Sa'd biography, the "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" (Book of the Major Classes), Volume 2. Of the three, Ibn Sa'd's Sirat contains the most information relative to Muhammad's death. I will not attempt to cover the spectrum of subjects Ibn Sa'd addresses in his. However, I will cover and present his relevant material.
4. Tabari's "History". Tabari is one of the most highly respected authors in Islamic writings. His "History" is 39 volumes.
5. “Sahih Muslim”. This collection of Hadith is considered to be equal to, or slightly below Bukhari’s collection of Hadith.

I HAVE MENTIONED 5 AUTHORITATIVE HADITHS THAT ARE RECOGNIZED WORLD-WIDE by nearly every muslim. You are one of the few (who knows, perhaps because of your sect) that refuse the above. I can go ahead and list each Hadith but it's evident that you would rather shoot yourself than accept it.

NB: Ali ibn Abi Talib was among those who ate the meat and Ali died almost 35years after Muhammad (saws). Why hasn't be affected with the poison also?

Bros, whether he died immediately or whether it was 10 years later is irrelevant. Here we go:

A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 47, Number 786)

if that is not clear, here:

Ibn 'Abbas replied, "That indicated the death of Allah's Apostle which Allah informed him of." 'Umar said, "I do not understand of it except what you understand." Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 713)

AND ANOTHER ONE:

Anas reported that a Jewess came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) with poisoned mutton and he took of that what had been brought to him (Allah's Messenger). (When the effect of this poison were felt by him) he called for her and asked her about that, whereupon she said: I had determined to kill you. Thereupon he said: Allah will never give you the power to do it. He (the narrator) said that they (the Companion's of the Holy Prophet) said: Should we not kill her? Thereupon he said: No. He (Anas) said: I felt (the affects of this poison) on the uvula of Allah's Messenger. (Sahih Muslim, Book 026, Number 5430)

SO, LET US PUT YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY IN PERSPECTIVE:

[b]Narrated AbuSalamah:

Muhammad ibn Amr said on the authority of AbuSalamah, and he did not mention the name of AbuHurayrah: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to accept presents but not alms (sadaqah).This version adds: So a Jewess presented him at Khaybar with a roasted sheep which she had poisoned. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) ate of it and the people also ate.He then said: Take away your hands (from the food), for it has informed me that it is poisoned. Bishr ibn al-Bara' ibn Ma'rur al-Ansari died.So he (the Prophet) sent for the Jewess (and said to her): What motivated you to do the work you have done? She said: If you were a prophet, it would not harm you; but if you were a king, I should rid the people of you. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) then ordered regarding her and she was killed. He then said about the pain of which he died: I continued to feel pain from the morsel which I had eaten at Khaybar. This is the time when it has cut off my aorta. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 39, Number 4498)[/b]

HIS DEATH
As for his (saws)blessed death, Tarikh al-tabari, Tarikh Yakubi, Tarikh Mas'udi, Ansab al-Ashraf etc all gave account that prophet died after falling ill for some days and none of them ever reported that his death was as a result of poison he consumed 4 years ago.

That is not what the Hadiths state. Let me ask you the following questions:

1. Are you claiming that Muhammad, Aisha, Anas etc. didn’t know what they were talking about? Do you know better than Muhammad? He explicitly says that he felt the effect of that poison many times, and he himself attributes his death to the poison. Was that merely Muhammad’s paranoia, and he simply imagined this even though it was not true?
2. Are you therefore accusing Muhammad and his companions of being ignorant since you know more than they did regarding the effects of poison, i.e. that it is not possible for someone to be harmed by poisoned food which had been eaten four years earlier?
3. Or you saying that these Muslim sources are wrong, that they are fabricated texts? For example, is Al-Bukhari fabricated and not authentic?

Hadith are graded into:

1. Authentic (sahih) or Hassan (good)
2. Weak (daeef) and
3. Mawdu (fabricated)
Based on the knowledge of hadith. The first yardstick to compare hadith with to know its veracity is Qur'an and other scrutiny can follow suit. Books of Hadith were written centuries after the death of prophet of Islam just like Bible thereby its veracity is suspected and should be put into scrutiny.

Can you tell us which Hadiths are authentic and which are not?

If the holy Qur'an itself can challenge anybody to verify and scrutinize its veracity being from Allah, what is any other book that will not be scrutinize?

The Quran is not the only book/texts that Muslims adhere to. Several muslims practices are not ordained in the Quran but in the Hadiths i.e. praying 5 times a day, the instruction to visit the Hajj if you can are all Hadiths based and not instructions directly given from the Quran. Yet, you as a muslim knowingly or unknowingly accept these Hadiths.

In your haste to refute what your own Islamic sources proclaim, you overlooked one important fact: Muhammad, who supposedly heard the food tell him it was poisoned, was utterly incapable of preventing his friend from eating and dying because of it! If Muhammad really knew that the food was poisoned then surely he would have done something to prevent his friend from eating it. So, why was the "greatest of all the prophets" not able to save his friends? I will LEAVE YOU TO PONDER OVER THAT.

Here is a similar story where another prophet (In the Bible - who Mohammad is speculated to be "GREATER" than) saved his comrades from poison.

"Elisha returned to Gilgal and there was a famine in that region. While the company of the prophets was meeting with him, he said to his servant, 'Put on the large pot and cook some stew for these men.' One of them went out into the fields to gather herbs and found a wild vine. He gathered some of its gourds and filled the fold of his cloak. When he returned, he cut them up into the pot of stew, though no one knew what they were. The stew was poured out for the men, but as they began to eat it, they cried out, 'O man of God, there is death in the pot!' And they could not eat it. Elisha said, 'Get some flour.' He put it into the pot and said, 'Serve it to the people to eat.' And there was nothing harmful in the pot." 2 Kings 4:38-41 NIV

Why couldn't Muhammad have done the same for his friend if he was truly a prophet like the OT prophets?

Moreover, specific narrations actually provide evidence that Muhammad only realized that his food was poisoned after seeing what had happened to his companion:

When the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, conquered Khaybar and he had peace of mind, Zaynab Bint al-Harith, the brother of Marhab, who was the spouse of Sallam Ibn Mishkam, inquired: Which part of the goat is liked by Muhammad? They said: The foreleg. Then she slaughtered one from her goats and roasted it (the meat). Then she wanted a poison which could not fail… The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, took the foreleg, a piece of which he put into his mouth. Bishr Ibn al-Barra took another bone and put it into his mouth. When the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, ate one morsel of it Bishr ate his and other people also ate from it. Then the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, said: Hold back your hands! because this foreleg… informed me that it is poisoned. Thereupon Bishr said: By Him who has made you great! I discovered it from the morsel I took. Nothing prevented me from emitting it out, but the idea that I did not like to make your food unrelishing. When you had eaten what was in your mouth I did not like to save my life after yours, and I also thought you would not have eaten it if there was something wrong.

Bishr did not rise from his seat but his color changed to that of taylsan (a green cloth)… The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, sent for Zaynab and said to her: What induced you to do what you have done? She replied: You have done to my people what you have done. You have killed my father, my uncle and my husband, so I said to myself: If you are a prophet, the foreleg will inform you; and others have said: If you are a king we will get rid of you…

The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, lived after this three years till in consequence of his pain he passed away. During his illness he used to say: I did not cease to find the effect of the (poisoned) morsel, I took at Khaybar and I suffered several times (from its effect) but now I feel the hour has come of the cutting of my jugular vein, which is a vein in the back… (Ibn Sa'ad's Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, English translation by S. Moinul Haq, M.A., PH.D assisted by H.K. Ghazanfar M.A. (Kitab Bhavan Exporters & Importers, 1784 Kalan Mahal, Daryaganj, New Delhi - 110 002 India], Volume II, pp. 251-252; bold and italic emphasis ours)

Observe that Bishr clearly realized that something was wrong with the meat and wanted to spit it out, but he instead swallowed because he did not want Muhammad’s enjoyment of the food be lessened by his doing so. Bishr clearly ate and died because Muhammad did NOT realize at first that this meat was bad or poisoned. Bishr only ate, because Muhammad had eaten first, though probably only a little.

Second, if Bishr was able to realize that the meat was poisoned then there is no reason to think that Muhammad did not realize this simply from the taste (and maybe already seeing the fast effect on his companion) that the food was poisoned. There is no need to look for a prophetic insight. If Muhammad had had that insight BEFORE touching the meat, that would have been more impressive. After having tasted it and probably even seeing its effect on Bishr, and maybe feeling some of it himself, the explanation for this insight is entirely natural.

In light of this I have some more questions for you:

1. If Muhammad had been supernaturally informed that the food was poisoned why did he eat from it as the narrations indicate? Why not inspire Muhammad before he ingested any of the poisoned food so that four years later he wouldn’t think that this is what caused his fatal illness?
2. More importantly, why didn’t the revelation come to Muhammad before his friend ate the poison? Why didn’t Allah inspire him in time to prevent his companion from eating and thereby spare his life?

Here is another Hadith that clearly states his health deteriorated due to the poison:

Narrated Umm Salamah
Umm Salamah said: Allah's Messenger, you necessarily develop trouble every year because of the eating of the poisoned (meat) of sheep. He said: Nothing befalls me but that which was destined for me while Adam was still a lump of clay.
Transmitted by Ibn Majah. (Tirmidhi Hadith, Number 43)

Bros, you can't ignore history. You can pretend and refuse it but you can't ignore it or change it

usisky:

[size=13pt]
copy and paste?! Do yourself a favor: At least try to find out a little about the person you think you want to engage in a debate with...Start
by clicking on my profile.

#Just an advise, Sir!
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No vex Albert Einstein . The floor is opened if you want to engage

usisky:

[size=13pt]
Peace MR. I really wish you had been a little patient(or maybe sincere) to have read just a couple more verses following your quotation,
you would've seen the author you (mis)quoted provide you with the context which you never considered....

[Quran 4:89] .....If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.

[Quran 4:90] Exempted are those who join people with whom you have signed a peace treaty, and those who come to you wishing not to fight you, nor fight their relatives. Had GOD willed, He could have permitted them to fight against you. Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them.

[Quran 4:91] You will find others who wish to make peace with you, and also with their people. However, as soon as war erupts, they fight against you. Unless these people leave you alone, offer you peace, and stop fighting you, you may fight them when you encounter them. Against these, we give you a clear authorization.


Deduction from the above:

1)A 'go-ahead' instruction was issued to the prophet and his followers to fight a certain disbelieving people. During such encounter,
the disbelievers may be killed(4:89).

2)But who are these disbelieving people? Answer in 4:90
a)they are aggressing people.
b)they fight the prophet, kill his followers and their relatives.

Once they(disbelievers) quit fighting, oppressing and killing the innocent people(prophet and followers)-categorically-God says they
should also refrain from fighiting such disbelievers(4:90).

3)For as long as the disbelievers persist in their old ways of aggression and fighting the innocent folks, the command to be stern towards
them remains valid(4:91)

Another verse to consider:
[Quran 2:193] You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.

The crowning verses: Basic Law Regulating Relations With Unbelievers

[Quran 60:8-9] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable. GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.


I hope you understand? Stop reading the Quran upside down(like the people who we're trying to educate here), you can't get the message that way. Peace!!!


www.submission.org
www.masjidtucson.org
www.miracleof19.org
www.quranalone.com

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Another one of the copy and paste Muslims. Welcome to the thread!. The context of verses in the Quran is clearly explained in the Hadith and it tells you why. If you want me to engage you, I will be happy to

Al-Baqir:


Mr paul or Na apostle paul! Na your fault? No be your fault at all. Na fault of the politicize books of hadith which many muslims have been brainwashed for ages that every letters you have in there are authentic. And it is no suprise that a figure like you could come out and back such hadith because of your own selfish and foolish interest.

If a hadith is given to you that non-muslim will go to hell-fire, then you will raise your eyez brow ranting" Islam is boko-haram" and quick to judge books of hadith as false.

Mr paulo. Know that the first and most trusted Islamic source of knowledge is Qur'an. It is 100%. Books of hadith contained lots of error as it also contain truth. The holy prophet had left Qur'an as the yardstick to recognize true saying from him and any saying attributed to him that does not pass the test of the Qur'an, is definitely not from him. If any hadith says Muhammad (saws) died as a result of poison, such hadith irrespective of where it comes from should be put to scrutiny. Muhammad's signature never appear in any hadith. Hadith were written 100s of years after him.

Qur'an says concerning Muhammad:

"...wAllahu ya simuka mina Nas..." "...And (your Lord) will protect you from (the evil of) man..."

"..they planned, and Allah also plan; and Allah is the best planner"

It is irrational to conclude that poison killed him (saws) as it is against the promise of his Lord to protect him from evil of man.
Also it is more irrational to conclude that a poison can have its effect on man after 4years. Between the so-called time of poison and the time of his death, he was never fallen ill as reported by the same books of hadith.

The so-called poison was said to be administered in the 7th year of hijrah and the prophet (saws) died at the beginning of 11th year of Hijrah.

Mr Paul your problem is enough for you don't add to your problem. There were some mercineries within Islam and outside it (of whom you are one of them) designed to tarnish the image of the prophet of Islam. Some are did it unknowingly, some ignorantly and some stupidly and intentionally.

If you claim there were scholars that believe in your theory. Yes there were, and at the same time there are many who do not believe in such a tale. Therefore its not unanimously agreed.

You haven't provided ONE SINGLE PROOF ON HOW HE DIED OUTSIDE THAT OF WHICH THE HADITHS STATE. New age muslims like you want to believe he COULDN'T HAVE DIED BY THE HAND OF A JEWISH WOMAN. So, you can conveniently deny your own Hadiths Bros .

If you want us to take you seriously, please provide a traceable account of how he died. If you can't, please take the back seat and SHUT-UP. Since you are an expert of poisons can know how EVERY SINGLE one of them works - please educate us. You are even a laughing stock to more educated muslims that know their history.

So, please tell us how he died!

Al-Baqir:


I read ur link and I've given u my view. You either read mine, bring ur point, abuse as salafi usual act or remain silent. The choice is yours.

It appears you know more than the early Islamic text and scholars that have documented Mohammads death. So far, you have no textual traceable proof to counter-claim the Hadiths respected by nearly all Islamic schools of jurisprudence on the matter of Mohammads death. It's only certain Muslims like yourself who wants to prove otherwise:

Bukhari's Hadith 5.713: Narrated 'Aisha:The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

Ibn Sa'd p. 252: The apostle of Allah sent for Zaynab and said to her, "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "You have done to my people what you have done. You have killed my father, my uncle and my husband, so I said to myself, "If you are a prophet, the foreleg will inform you; and others have said, "If you are a king we will get rid of you."

If Mohammad didn't eat food cooked or prepared by Jews, why didn't he refuse it? So far, all you have presented us compared to the Hadiths are speculations that you can't back up. Mohammad death was a test of his prophet-hood. The woman thought, if he was indeed the "Seal of all prophets" and the last messenger of God - surely, poison wouldn't harm him. But Mohammad failed the test.

Now, compare Mohammad to the apostle Paul, who had a viper snake bite him:

Acts 28: 1. And when they were escaped, then they knew that the island was called Melita. 2 And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire, and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold. 3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. 4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live. 5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. 6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god. 7 In the same quarters were possessions of the chief man of the island, whose name was Publius; who received us, and lodged us three days courteously. 8 And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him. 9 So when this was done, others also, which had diseases in the island, came, and were healed:

Look at Paul who wasn't even a prophet but a mere apostle. The poison from a viper could do him no harm because God was with him. Now, look at Mohammad, he couldn't even save himself or Allah couldn't even save him. Na Wa!

MOVING FORWARD. The effects of the poison on Mohammad:

Sahih Bukhari 1:11:634 = He came out with the help of two men and his legs were dragging on the ground. He was between Al-Abbas and another man

HISTORY IS NOT YOUR FRIEND BROS. It tells the truth, whether you believe/accept it or not

RoyPCain: @cloudstar; the five prayers from Quran is right there. Subh/Fajr, Dhur and Isha are mentioned about when you can shed your garment at rest time in Surah Muminu. Asr is mentioned along with Dhur as daylight time prayers not prayer, but prayers. Magrib is mentioned as time for breaking of fast, the time you remain in Masjid to in Ramadhan. these salawat were repeat in allegorical kind of ways, more than once. of course your disbelieving heart will not let you see 'pray in the early hour of the morning, pray in the daylight time hours, pray early night and in the night and none of these prayers is a sunnah or nafil. There is surah Fajr. There is surah Asr.

and the pilgrimage is mentioned in Surah Baqarah so much so the manaset [method is indicated], to include the prayer; Rabbanah attinah fi duniyah hassanattan, wa fil akhiratti hassanattan wa kina adhabanaar, which is completely different from the prayers of the people that will not inherit good after this life, since what they ask, always is of this world because of their disbelief. you need to read surah As Saffat [around verse 109] where the mentioned of slaughter is left as a memorial for prophet Ibrahim [AS]. there is maqam Ibrahim [station of Ibrahim [AS] mentioned to show that he and his family [Ismail [AS] and his mother are prominent in matters of the Hajj. there is a surah named Hajj.

did you notice that you are an evidence that not all apostate are killed? your heart sway so much that it pushes you out of Islam? surah Nisaa verse 137 leaves the window open for your returning.


and if a hadith is opposing Quran, one realizes that it is not truly authentic. by the hadith is saying of the prophet [SA] or what was said in his presence and he did not object to it. same is sunnah. Bukhari can be questioned if it is against Quran. Quran cant be questioned because all know that it is the Supreme Speech of God. scholar can make mistakes, if the sahabah made mistakes [sahabah were bigger scholars compared to the scholarship after them. after all the sahabah [RA] had the master of mankind [SA] as their teacher]

If they are there:

1. Please provide the Surah and verses so we can confirm
2. If the instruction to travel to Mecca of the Hajj is in the Quran, please state it

Remember, please state exactly where it says - pray 5 times and day and travel to Mecca for the Hajj as well. We are not referring to the Quran MENTIONING those words but a clear instruction. You are here talking about the Quran mentioning; I am talking about the instruction to pray 5 times and travel to the Hajj as a tenant that is clearly stated and taught in the Hadith.

All the Sunni and Shia schools of jurisprudence agrees that apostates should be killed and so does the Hadiths. Coming here to claim otherwise means you don't read your Hadith Bros.

Al-Bukhari is ONE OF THE MOST AUTHENTIC HADITHS and sources of Sunnah that every muslim follows. It is only muslims like yourself who wants to score cheap religious points will ignore the Hadiths. Since you wanted a verse from the Quran to prove instruction to kill apostates, here you go for your reading pleasure

Surah (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

I encourage you to read your Quran Oga

RoyPCain: @cloudstar; thanks for asking about my religion. your contribution is appreciated and understood your position taking into consideration that you are not a muslim. muslim does need to have knowledge of hadith before making proper decision of its meaning. bottomline about hadith is that it that it must mot be against the Quran if you are to consider it for its authenticity. any hadith that contradicts the verse of the Quran that it seems to explain, is not remotely authentic.


note that the 3 'hadiths' [i believe only the first qualifies as hadith] are not disagreeing with what i presented as argument ofor what category of apostate that can be killed. Ali burning the 'atheists' has explanation that is very profound because the atheists are so because they have made Ali their "God", warning them rigorously against such a horror of speech resorting to burning them for their evil. you notice that they were spreading corruption, putting Ali [RA] in the center similar how christians are doing about Jesus [AS]. the last about the jew was not because the jew left Islam, but because he was undermining Islam by spreading lies and rumors and wishing it destroyed. people left Islam in the time of the prophet [SA], returning to their family in Makka. Allah revealed a verse of Mercy upon them that there is chance to repent and come back to guidance. one of them, Umar Khattab [RA] gave his camel or horse for the journey back to Makka. The "warrior" Umar Khattab [RA] didn't go after him for his property, the 'ride', but sent the verse as a message to the 'apostate' who upon hearing it returned knowing fully well that hope for mankind is Islam.


you need to look at the best meaning [the one that the prophet [SA] presented] of both Quran, as from it all true sunnah or hadith is the tutorial. I wish the muslims, including me are not behaving badly. the correct religion/way ordained by God, if you believe God and that He presented a way upon mankind, it is Islam. don't die without being upon it at death.

What you believe is irrelevant my friend. I am quoting from Al-Bukhari (An authoritative hadith & narration of the Sunnah of Mohammad). So, you can play pretend and tell me what hadith you can choose to believe and not to believe - that doesn't change the fact that the Hadith is authentic and is adhered by all the schools and scholars of Islam of which you are the least.

As a former Muslim that studied his Quran and Hadith; I know that there are several practices of muslims that are not in the Quran. For example:

1. Praying 5 times a day is not taught or recorded in the Quran; yet Muslims obey this commandment: If Muslims followed your line of thought, they probably wouldn't be doing this
2. The pilgrimage to Mecca: This is not taught in the Quran as well.

Whether you believe in Ali or not is your cup of tea. It only shows you are a Sunni muslim that disdain his fellow Shia/Shitte brothers . I wouldn't wish Islam on my enemy. As a former muslim and now a free thinker - Islam & the sunnah of Mohammad doesn't present a case for a decent religion.