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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Misconception: Death For Apostasy (3129 Views)
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Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by true2god: 8:23pm On Jan 02, 2014 |
I enjoy this debate. I can see some people trying to deny the killing of apostates in muslim countries, but this is a normal occurence. It is a treasonable offense to leave islam in most islamic countries. Radical muslims will justify and accept the fact, moderate muslims (who see it naturally wrong) will try to deny the practice. 1 Like |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by Nobody: 8:51pm On Jan 02, 2014 |
@coco diva; by Coco diva: 11:33am On Jan 01 as ssalaamualaykum. i am guessing the it is the ask statement part of verse 44 you have issue cleared about. it is always better to read any verse in context, even the verse is in itself a complete message. a bigger message in the chapter and of course same theme but biggest message in the whole Quran. Chapter 16. An-Nahl Verse 41 - 50 (of 128) Section 6 of 16 and the prophet [SA] never asked those that had possessed knowledge of prophets and revelations in their mist [nation of Israel], because he believed and relied on Allah, completely without any reservation. the prophet [SA] was not commanded, but Allah assurance of what Muhammad [SA] was given. further, it applies to us as Quran does applies to us. we should ask those who possess knowledge among our Islamic community of matters not clear to us. finally, prophet Musa [AS] was shown Khidar from his community with possession of the knowledge that Musa [AS] didn't have as it is related in Surah Kahf. Allah [definitely] Knows Best [of all affairs and matters]. |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by Nobody: 9:18pm On Jan 02, 2014 |
@true2god; by true2god: 8:23pm'muslim countries' is not "Islam [Quran and Sunnah/Hadith]". the reason there is action considered as a sin is when muslim does something unIslamic. |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by true2god: 5:10am On Jan 03, 2014 |
RoyPCain: @true2god; 'muslim countries' is not "Islam [Quran and Sunnah/Hadith]". the reason there is action considered as a sin is when muslim does something unIslamic.You do not understand Islam\quran\hadith than muslim clerics in saudi arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. I'm pretty sure that you brand of Islam is considered fake by the countries i mentioned. |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by Nobody: 9:58am On Jan 03, 2014 |
@true2god; be true to yourself, first. if your christianity is not considered to be fake by the vatican that practices celibacy which is not commanded by 'son of man', the uk that gave you kj bible, the germans of martin luther, the amerians that are beating down the doors of all of us infidels because we are not christians, how can you know about my islam when Allah is the Only One Who knows? His Prophet [SA] had the honor of being the one it is completed upon what started with Adam[AS], steadily maturing to adulthood and completeness, all the way passing through Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus [AS]. it is this prophet [SA] that i follow, today whereby i am able to believe the prophetic offices of those before [AS] him [SA]. i am neither following saudi arabia nor iran or any land, but what is islam of Muhammad [SA]. God rejects all 'ways' as a column but ordains Islam of Muhammad [SA] instead as the only way since He had nurtured it to the height of maturity being the peak of all the previous stages of Islam that occurred under those before him [SA], which included Jesus son of Mary [AS]. i do not subscribe to saudi arabia though Makka and Madina are important to me, dont subscribe to iran, afghanistan, pakistan, you name it. not even the yoruba that its water was the first on my lips, and the blood of its people flows in my veins. islam is built on 5. none of it is saudi arabia, iran, afghanistan, pakistan or yoruba. what is Islam is clear. 1 Like |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by true2god: 2:01pm On Jan 03, 2014 |
RoyPCain: @true2god; be true to yourself, first. if your christianity is not considered to be fake the vatican that practices celibacy which is not recommended, to the uk that gave you kj bible, to the germans of martin luther, to the amerians that are beating the down the doors of us all, the infidels because we are not christians, how can you know about my islam when Allah is the Only One Who knows? His Prophet [SA] had the honor of being the one in his prophetic office what started with Adam[AS], all the way passing through Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus [AS] was completed and other ways are emphatically rejected.Anytime you guys have difficulty in argument possed before you the next thing is to attack christians. Is that wat ur Imams tell u guys to do? I mentioned core Islamic countries where leaving islam is considered a treason the next is for you to start mention the vatican, uk, the germans etc. Death to apostastes is a part and parcel of islamic teachings, any cultural muslim that leaves islam is to be killed. If you are a yoruba muslim i do not expect you to believe or accept this weird practice cos it is strange to yoruba culture but not strange to the arabs, the custodian of islamic culture and religion. Note that these countries i mentiond practice sharia law to the extreme (their ullamahs understand the quran\hadith than you). 1 Like |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by Nobody: 6:03pm On Jan 03, 2014 |
@true2god; by true2god: 2:01pmshow me where i attacked christianity in what i wrote, otherwise, you do not know the real definition of 'attack'. Is that wat ur Imams tell u guys to do? I mentioned core Islamic countries where leaving islam is considered a treason the next is for you to start mention the vatican, uk, the germans etc. Death to apostastes is a part and parcel of islamic teachings, any cultural muslim that leaves islam is to be killed.core Islam simply follow Quran and Sunnah, their own make up ideology. today we do not have kalifah anywhere which shows that your core Islamic country label is not core Islamic country to this muslim. ask any muslim if core Islamic country should have anything other than what Islam recommends/what Muhammad [SA] presented from his Lord and why are core Islamic countries; Iran and Saudi Arabia, are completely different in Islamic process or did the prophet [SA] bring but 1 Islamic process if each is truly core islamic country? If you are a yoruba muslim i do not expect you to believe or accept this weird practice cos it is strange to yoruba culture but not strange to the arabs, the custodian of islamic culture and religion. Note that these countries i mentiond practice sharia law to the extreme (their ullamahs understand the quran\hadith than you).i personally know many arabic scholars and none of them have complained about my Islam. i have spoken to arabs, today and i will still do so after jumu'ah prayers. so, Islam is not by ethnicity. Muhammad [SA] came for the arabs and non arabs which is why he is the prophet for all [Al Ajami]. none of these countries truly practice sharia and there are blacks who can school arabs when it comes to Islam. hope you know there is a nigerian block teaching in University of Madina? |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by true2god: 9:14am On Jan 04, 2014 |
RoyPCain: @true2god; show me where i attacked christianity in what i wrote, otherwise, you do not know the real definition of 'attack'.So who is wrong? Core Islamic countries that treat apostasy as a treason or liberal Islamic countries that do not care much about apostasy. By social behavior, u will agree with me, the yorubas and the hausas are different, which also go a long way in defining their reactions to some emotionally sensitive issues. Virtually all yorubas have muslims and christians evenly represented in their families, so a yorubaman that chooses to leave christianity for Islam (or vice versa) is never view a big deal. But thats not the case for hausas\fulanis\arabs whose population are predominantly muslims and who (unlike the yorubas), follow the quran and varios reliable hadith to the latter. The following quranic verses are usually quoted for the justification of killing apostates: quran 4:89, quran 9:11-12, Quran 9:66 and some other verses. The following are hadith that justify the practice:Bukhari 52:260, 83:37, 84:57, 89:271 and some other verses. So i can tell you that your argument runs contrary to what is applicable in muslim countries where Islam is the state or official religion. 1 Like |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by true2god: 9:46am On Jan 04, 2014 |
@ RoyPcain, you seem to be running a damage control or image laundry services for Islam. I am not against the killing of apostate if that is what your religion stipulates, but you will only do a disservice to Islam if you attempt to misinterprete the quran in order to make Islam look attractive or feel cool to non-muslims. True, a verse in the quran says 'there is no compulsion in religion' quran 2:256, but many other verses (and hadith) justify killing apostates. If you want to practice a religion, then you have to believe all its tenets without any attempt to cusmetize it to make it appear the way it isn't, especially in this digital age when all man can have access to quran and hadith in the confort of his home right in his laptop and can equally get cross-reference from the internet (and most importantly in english language). 1 Like |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by true2god: 11:08am On Jan 04, 2014 |
Rilwayne001:You dont have a point and could you tell me what i am twisting? I gave you countries where leaving Islam is considered a treason and what i expected you to do is to refute the allegations with facts. In those countries there is no separation of religion from the state. A child born in saudi arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc is automatically a muslim and if the child grows up and decide to switch religion he is going against the state. That action is considered treason and punishable by death. So hw am i twisting. Go through the quranic verses and the hadith i gave you, you will understand why saudi arabia and the rest made apostasy law. You dont need to deny the obvios. If you are a muslim living in Lagos, Nigeria you dont have problem converting to christianity, but it is suicidal for a muslim living in saudi arabia to do same. Aside from changing religion, it a death penalty if i should 'insult' mohammed (even if he did what i insulted him for) in a muslim country. 1 Like |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by vedaxcool(m): 5:08pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
true2god: You dont have a point and could you tell me what i am twisting? I gave you countries where leaving Islam is considered a treason and what i expected you to do is to refute the allegations with facts. In those countries there is no separation of religion from the state. A child born in saudi arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc is automatically a muslim and if the child grows up and decide to switch religion he is going against the state. That action is considered treason and punishable by death. So hw am i twisting. You seem hell bent on promoting ignorance that is unfounded, there are christians in Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and even Iraq, chidren born by parents of the christian faith automatically become christians, that is leaving Islam to another religion is something that Allah clearly says in the Qur'an, there is no compulsion in religion, and the prohet further stated that actions shall be judge according to intention, once someone decides to leave Islam, there is no force on earth that can change him since his intention has automatically make him a non muslim, so yes u are twisting Islam teachings when u state your own position. true2god: Yes, but Islam such laws are not in accordance with the Shariah, as one can convert to another religion as long as it is done in a subversive manner, then the apostacy law becomes relevant but sentencing someone to death for just converting is not Islamic. true2god: Yes even Jesus would not tolerate blasphemy. and the bible recommends execution for blasphemy, we muslims cannnot condition ourselves to like blasphemy. |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by cloudstar: 5:26pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
vedaxcool Yes even Jesus would not tolerate blasphemy. and the bible recommends execution for blasphemy, we muslims cannnot condition ourselves to like blasphemy. Can you show us where Jesus recommends execution for blasphemy? 1 Like |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by vedaxcool(m): 5:59pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
vedaxcool: Usually the message is lost . . . |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by cloudstar: 6:33pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
vedaxcool: Can you show us where JESUS in the BIBLE didn't tolerate blasphemy. I am assuming the word "not tolerate" here means using the sword or cutting off limbs and heads to show His intolerance ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by vedaxcool(m): 6:50pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
vedaxcool: |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by cloudstar: 7:00pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
vedaxcool Ah ah now, I am sure you can backup your statement with some facts: Can you show us where JESUS in the BIBLE didn't tolerate blasphemy. I am assuming the word "not tolerate" here means using the sword or cutting off limbs and heads to show His intolerance. We are waiting for your response oh! 1 Like |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by vedaxcool(m): 8:48pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
obviously there is a communication gap, despite showing u the context of my statement, u insist on being what gronzyware labels u. I leave u with the words if your brother, www.nairaland.com/1260481/boko-haram-not-islamic-organisation-babangida/10#15525640 |
Re: Misconception: Death For Apostasy by cloudstar: 9:42pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
vedaxcool: obviously there is a communication gap, despite showing u the context of my statement, u insist on being what gronzyware labels u. I leave u with the words if your brother, As usual, running away with your tail between your legs ![]() ![]() 1 Like |
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