mitchellhhobb:
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Sand2022:
Jehovah's witnesses believe that Christ Presence started in 1914. They understand the question of the apostles at Matt 24:3 to relate to the earthly sign that will indicate that Jesus has become a king of God's kingdom.

According to them, the pestilence, food shortages etc that were written in Matt 24 are all signs that Jesus has become king.

Their Enjoy Life book says:

"Jesus’ disciples asked him: “What will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?” (Matthew 24:3) In answer, Jesus foretold many things that would happen after he began ruling in heaven as King of God’s Kingdom. Some of these include war, food shortages, and earthquakes. (Read Matthew 24:7.) The Bible also foretold that people’s attitudes in “the last days” would make life “hard to deal with.” (2 Timothy 3:1-5) These conditions and attitudes have especially been evident since 1914."

JWs are really terrible in bible interpretation really. But is that what Jesus disciples were asking?

True, the question relates to Jesus coming as a king of God's kingdom, but the question is asking when Jesus will come as a glorious king and judge of the world. They want to know when God's kingdom will come. This question has always bothered them to the extent that after Jesus resurrected, they asked him if he was restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time. To show that these was their question at Matt 24:3, they joined that question with " and of the end of the age/world". Jesus coming as a judge will end the present age.

However, the JWs have also showed lack of knowledge in the meaning of the world for " end" at Matt 24:3.

In the study pane of JW Library, they said:

conclusion: Rendered from the Greek word syn·teʹlei·a, meaning “joint end; combination end; ending together.” (Mt 13:39, 40, 49; 28:20; Heb 9:26) This refers to a time period during which a combination of events would lead to the complete “end” mentioned at Mt 24:6, 14, where a different Greek word, teʹlos, is used.​—See study notes on Mt 24:6, 14 and Glossary, “Conclusion of the system of things."

They gave the Greek meaning of synteleia, but then turned the definition to something else altogether. HELP Word Study says:

Cognate: 4930 syntéleia (from 4862 /sýn, "close together with" and 5055 /teléō, "complete, consummate" – culmination (completion), i.e. when the parts come together into a whole ("consummation" – "an end involving many parts" (B. F. Westcott). See 4931 (synteléō).

So this Greek word synteleies combines syn and telos. B.F Wescott shows it means "an END involving many parts." So both telos and synteleies all mean an "end/completion", but synteleies is broader in scope.

The HELP word study continues:

4930 /syntéleia ("culminating end, finish" is not strictly "termination" but rather "consummation" (completion) that ushers in a new time-era/age (Mt 13:39,40,49,24:3, 28:20).

Here makes it clear that synteleia refers to a completion, a fulfillment of a previous age, that ushers in a new one.

I wanted to say this. At Matt 28:20, we see synteleias being clearly used as the "end". It says:

20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

Notice he says he is with them "all the days UNTIL...", what should appear there should be "END of the systems of things". Conclusion according to JW theology spans years. Jesus is rather saying he is with them from that day until when the end will come. Let's continue with Matt 24.

In the book of Matt 24, we see that Jesus explanation shows that this is what the apostles want to know - when the end will come, with Jesus as the glorious judge. For eg, see verse 6. He says there, "and the end is not yet". Then in verse 14, he says, " and then, the end will come". There you see telos in both verse 6 and 14. Now what they asked Jesus was the " synteleias (end) of the age", not "telos of the age". So why bring telos in verse 6 and 14? Simply because both word means "end". The chapter is using the word interchangeably.

The JW rather want to divide the meaning of the two words, and assign "end" to telos alone, forgetting that synteleias has both syn and telos combined. Wescott definition is pointed, "an end involving many parts".

If they were just asking about events on earth that will show that Jesus has become a king in heaven, Jesus wouldn't be saying in verse 6, "but the end is not YET". Rather, by saying that, Jesus shows that the end was what the question is about, as the apostles always do.

Jesus started speaking of the SIGN of that end with him as the glorious king in verse 30 of Matt 24. It says:

30 Then the SIGN of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

In their JW Library study pane, JWs throws an objection, it says:

"the sign of the Son of man: This sign is not the same as “the sign of [Jesus’] presence” mentioned at Mt 24:3. The sign mentioned here is connected with the “coming” of the Son of man as Judge to pronounce and execute judgment during the great tribulation.​—See study note on coming in this verse."

Well, that is really what it is, the apostles asked, " what will be the SIGN of YOUR (Jesus) presence...". Jesus is now specifically answering that question, by saying " THEN, the SIGN of the son of man will appear..."

Take note of the word, " then". Jesus is saying after the heavenly phenomenon, the sign of his coming/presence will appear in heaven.

What JWs are saying happened in 1914, are actually what will happen in the future when Jesus comes. It should be noted that Jesus coming will likely take some time because the Greek word parousia basically means presence. Of course for Jesus to be present, he has to first arrive. But this presence is not to span over 100 years as the JW theology says, No.

To further show that what JWs view as happening in 1914 is actually what will happen in the future, we ask, what happens when Jesus becomes king of God's kingdom? See Dan. 7:14

14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed."

So Christ receiving the kingdom was not just to stay in heaven doing nothing on earth. He is to receive servitude from people's, nations, and languages. Is that what is happening now? No. The same JWs will say Satan is ruling the world. See another scripture as well:

Rev 11
15 The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”

When does the JW believe this prophecy fulfilled?

One of their publication says regarding that verse:

"In October 1914, Jehovah God set his beloved Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, on the throne in the heavenly Kingdom. At last, the Revelation vision of the Christian apostle John started to become a reality, and the announcement could be made: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord [Jehovah] and of his Christ, and he [Jehovah] will rule as king forever and ever.” (Revelation 1:10; 4:1; 11:15)"

So if the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of Christ Jesus, how then is Satan still ruling the world?

This scriptural implication was why Russell announced in 1914, 'Gentiles times has passed, their kings have had their days". Yes, if Jesus starts ruling as king of that kingdom, no other gentile/worldly kings would still be ruling. So my advise to JW leadership is this, push all the scriptures you said fulfilled in 1914 to a future time when Jesus will come, then all your eschatological delima will go.

There is another problem I observed while researching this subject, the JW has a terrible understanding of verse 37. It says:

37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

The JWs stumble over that phrase " days of Noah" in relation to the presence of the son of man. Jesus was not saying that just as days of a person might refer to his lifetime, a period spanning many years, that Jesus presence will still span many years. Are this JW serious? Like seriously?

The point of Jesus statement is in verse 36. He stated that concerning that day, nobody knows. So he went further to build on that point. That as people took no note of when the flood came, that is how Christ will come suddenly. No one will know that day nor that hour. It will come when people are busy with normal activities of life, just as a thief comes unannounced.

I also see them connect Christ's presence to Jesus coming as a conquering king at Rev 6:2. They said it all happened in 1914. Oh my! Jesus coming as a conqueror king is linked to his coming at the end of the age. Notice Rev 17:14

14 These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.” this event is the same with that at Rev 19:11-21.

This will all happen when he comes in the future, not 1914. The major problem of JW is 1914. It is said that one theological error leads to another

mkbessman:

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If you’re a clown talk again. You really need to get your brain checked. You just entered this thread and all you could do is to insult people. You’re a waste. I won’t answer you again because I don’t talk with clowns.