so this is a christian. i'd rather not go to heaven if crap like this populates it.

reactions to this weeks naruto and bleach. @next2beezee congrats, bleach was goodish this week

Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
What do these letters stand for?

And, coming from a German guy, those names don't even make sense in German. At all.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

Naruto was just a shame this week. It looks like Kishi had all those awesome ideas in mind but never got around to execute them/got annoyed of it. Really sad.
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June 6th, 2012 04:36 AM #3262
Cyan D. Funk
Gotta rule 'em all

Join DateFeb 2010LocationHuxley U.
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
Welp, those zombies had the payoff of absolutely nothing
"Quoth the raven, 'Nevermore'"

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June 6th, 2012 04:47 AM #3263
GypsyCarts
Bat Bitch

Join DateAug 2010LocationHome.

Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
Bleach: Look at all the poorly named Espada rejects terrorizing the city. Seriously, does anyone have combat skill in this action manga? No? Oh, right. It's Bleach and only four people know what they're doing sort of maybe. Ayon looks pretty cool, just because he...she...they look creepy as hell. And someone fire Renji. That dude never does anything ever. Just goes "HUH WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT" and then extends his sword. What a joke.

Naruto: Cool. Useless zombies. If Itachi pokes Sasuke's forehead, I swear I will blow up Venus.
"Trust him with me...I WANT TO WRONG JIGGLE."
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June 6th, 2012 04:55 AM #3264
Cyan D. Funk
Gotta rule 'em all

Join DateFeb 2010LocationHuxley U.
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
Renji is the Yamcha of Soul Society.
"Quoth the raven, 'Nevermore'"

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June 6th, 2012 04:57 AM #3265
Luphrecio
Gigolo

Join DateJun 2010LocationTokyo Japan
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
cant wait for naruto to end.

I stopped reading bleach 9 and a half years ago
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June 6th, 2012 05:00 AM #3266
GypsyCarts
Bat Bitch

Join DateAug 2010LocationHome.

Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk
Renji is the Yamcha of Soul Society.
Or the Terry Boot
"Trust him with me...I WANT TO WRONG JIGGLE."
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June 6th, 2012 05:19 AM #3267
The Daz
Grumbler


Join DateFeb 2005LocationCapital of Ikea

Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
This is Glossy Black Naruto if I ever saw it. They even acknowledge it themselves; "Hey Naruto, Itachi saved us all! We're totally inqonsequential!" and Madara has a Bijuu level megazord. Figures. He'll propably have an Edo-Tensei failsafe, just to drag out the battle some more.

Bleach...Other than me having no fucking clue what was being talked about in the first few pages, okay chapter I guess. Feels very much like a filler arc or movie, which is above the mangas usual standard.
Check out our Blog Project - if you ever need another reason to laugh at Bleach! In Aizen we trust!
Latest post 20/12 2011
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June 6th, 2012 05:26 AM #3268
nodensuke
Gokiburi Boshi

Join DateJan 2012LocationGingertown

Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
First time I've posted in here, mostly because I took long break from Naruto for being so boring lately, but I caught up on the weekend and the only thing I have to say is...Thank god that dragged out Kabuto back story/ Itachi- Sasuke reunion is finally over and it can get back to the war.

Kishi sure seems to want to make this last as long as possible though, the chapters lately have been extreamly short, which is annoying.
a place for bugs
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June 6th, 2012 05:28 AM #3269
baby-boo
A Russian on a Quest

Join DateAug 2009
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
I'm so annoyed that a DEAD GUY just saved them all. The living, especially the Kages, are such useless people. And what about Kabuto now. Left to fight Sasuke?

I haven't been following so well. If Madara goes away now, is there anything unresolved with him? Some secret he alluded to or whatever.
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June 6th, 2012 05:30 AM #3270
super "pet" robot
Artist

Join DateApr 2009
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
Is that Captain Justice?

Spoiler:

The Real Fighters!


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June 6th, 2012 05:38 AM #3271
f-trash
Discovered Stowaway
Join DateSep 2009
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
So how long until they will destroy planets and whole dimensions?

I mean, Madara is getting pretty close to DBZ levels right now.
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June 6th, 2012 05:43 AM #3272
Ace of Spades
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Join DateApr 2012
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
Bleach was okay, though the names were hilarious. 'Bambietta Basterbine' and 'NaNaNa Najahkoop', and 'Nodt', such weird names. Haha. And it seems the letters may indicate the power levels of the quincies. It seems that the quincies who were shown last chapter are the strongest members, probably. 'A' being the strongest quincy.

So, any chances that some of the captains may die (Byakuya anyone).

Lol and I can already see Komamura being beaten. Poor doggie, just can't get a bone.

And why did Kubo show Ichigo in the last panel previous chapter, if he was not going to follow through that battle this chapter ??
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June 6th, 2012 05:48 AM #3273
LightningAce
WB Pirates No 1 Fan

Join DateNov 2005
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
Originally Posted by Shezar
You mean Rose?
Doubt will se much of him.
Oh! Thats Rose. I totally forgot that. I figured he was some new character. Guess that makes alot more sense.

AceofSpades
So, any chances that some of the captains may die (Byakuya anyone).
Dog guy, whats his name i keep forgetting. He's out lived his usefulness, he can die. I would so love for Hitsugaya to die, but that ain't gonna happen. At best we can hope Renji dies, as well as a few more Vice Captains.

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June 6th, 2012 05:59 AM #3274
Nomur "Steel Blade" Etels
Discovered Stowaway

Join DateOct 2006
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
So, Naruto. Guess that whole thing with the zombies is done with. That leaves Tobi with... what, exactly? His army of Zetsus and Yamato stuck in a tree? For crying out loud, how can someone make a WAR this utterly boring and predictable? Oh, wait, it's Kishi, I just answered my own question.

As for Bleach... infinitely better than Naruto, that's for sure. Hell, all that happened was some of the captains meeting some of the Quincies, and I still feel more invested in Bleach than I do Naruto.

Also, I'm not sure if it was a thing back in the Visored arc or whenever Ichigo was trained by Shinji and co, but... did Rose ever actually play on a guitar?
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June 6th, 2012 06:00 AM #3275
kouch_lee
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Join DateJul 2010LocationBarcelona
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
What a piece of crap Naruto chapter was this. How much uselessness. How much throwawayness. This is hitting rock bottom.

Bleach was ok. As its been for some good 5 or 6 chapters now. Slow as all Bleep, but that's to be expected.

So, Komamura will get raped by a little girl, and Renji by a lucha libre cosplayer. That's all there is for certain right now. And why did Rose get so much exposition? I gotta confess I kinda mistook him for captain tuberculosis for a moment.
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June 6th, 2012 06:07 AM #3276
King Cannon
Crocodilian Despot

Join DateAug 2011LocationBrazil
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
Originally Posted by kouch_lee
So, Komamura will get raped by a little girl, and Renji by a lucha libre cosplayer. That's all there is for certain right now. And why did Rose get so much exposition? I gotta confess I kinda mistook him for captain tuberculosis for a moment.
Because his VC could be dead?
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June 6th, 2012 06:15 AM #3277
Strawhat Chan
Discovered Stowaway
Join DateJun 2009
Re: Naruto and Bleach II: I'm so bored I'm going to yawn
Originally Posted by King Cannon
Because his VC could be dead?
Yes, the same VC with whom he had zero interaction despite Kubo saying that he wanted them together. Excellent writing right there, Kubo.

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Because of their exploitation of our glorious country, their treatment of our citizens as near slaves, I am proposing the Ugandan solution for NIGERIAN Nationals and companies who expolit us in CANADA. NIGERIA MUST GO

Please join me in petitioning our government to expel these people. We need economic partners who will yreat us with respect and dignity and not exploit us.

NIGERIA MUST GO
Because of their exploitation of our glorious country, their treatment of our citizens as near slaves, I am proposing the Ugandan solution for NIGERIAN Nationals and companies who expolit us in BRITAIN. NIGEIA MUST GO

Please join me in petitioning our government to expel these people. We need economic partners who will yreat us with respect and dignity and not exploit us.

NIGERIA MUST GO
see how your post sounds

logicboy:


Buzugee?

saw him viewing, preemptive strike

buzugee, please stay off if you have nothing to say

8

ea7: hold on next to bezee, that one about kubo saving the bankais for later makes sense, except for the fact that it makes no sense in story. they should have gone all out it was illogical.
and hitsugaya stabbing notreally aizen makes little sense, why...see for yourself, he thinks to himself before being stabbed...

I can only imagine things from Ichigo's point of view:

They're all fighting to keep me from seeing Aizen's Shikai

They're all fighting to give me an opening

Hmm, they're all hitting air and Aizen went over to pick up Hinamori and put her in mid-air, does that count as an opening?

Nope, better stay here and think about things some more

Oh ****, they stabbed her, let's try yelling at them for screwing up.

Oh crap, Aizen is over there by the vice captains, and they don't realize yet. I should do something, or maybe I should stand here and wait for a better opportunity. Yeah I think I'll wait.

Crap the vice captains are all cut down. At least the captains are still -

Oh crap they're all cut down. Who's going to give me an opening to Aizen now?

....I really screwed up.

but looking at those two pics shows how naruto's charactr has retrogressed

firestar:

Kekkai Genkai ea7-san. I love to fight with bloodline limits. Techniques copied by the Sharingan can be defeated no?
Here's your source with a 120 pages.
http://forums.mangafox.me/threads/274688-Official-Naruto-Plot-Holes-Plot-no-Jutsu-Discussion-Thread/page70

Let me have your take on it, if you please.

smiles* raises hands* looks like i've been caught. it supports me and i'd agree with it

Jenwitemi: Creation and evolution. One cannot be without the other. Two sides of the same coin. Very weak topic for debate.

some would say otherwise

logicboy: Do you honestly expect christians to read this?

If it is not in short quotes like.......

"Give until it hurts"!

"sow and you shall reap"

"holy ghost fire burn my enemies"


.....they wont read it

you make it sound like they are retarded...thinks of buzugee..okaaaay

bleach is not the only one on the hot seat...compare and contrast

so why did the illusion think
"shi*"

The Inevitability of Evolution (Part III)

THE THIRD FALLACY in this series (after Part I and Part II) is failure to appreciate the nature of biology Biology isn’t coin tossing, card shuffling, or English history. It’s based on organic chemistry, and it has its own rules.

Let us illustrate those rules by returning to the card-shuffling analogy, but playing the game according to the way evolution actually works. Suppose we were in a gigantic casino, observing the players at a million tables simultaneously. There are trillions of tables where games are going on, but we’ll just watch this group. A million is enough for our purposes. (Meanwhile, the creationists are watching only one player as they grumble about “the odds,” but they don’t understand how the game is played. The creationists are looking for one long improbable serial sequence, while we’re watching a large number of parallel events, one step at a time.)

We’ll use a deck of cards as a simplified metaphor for a sequence of genetic mutations that the creationists are claiming is impossible. We want to see if that sequence can emerge without supernatural intervention. For convenience, let’s define that sequence as the original order of the cards, and let’s see if evolution can get there after a good shuffle of the deck.

Remember, we’re not playing Intelligent Designer, deliberately intervening to achieve a desired result in the future. We’re playing detective, trying to look back so we can see how an already existing result could have been achieved by natural means. In doing so, we won’t behave like creationists by figuring the odds against us and then throwing up our hands and saying “It’s impossible!” We’re looking for a way these things may have happened.

Remember also that even if we find a way, it may not be the way it actually did happen (we may never know that); but if we can find a natural method for accomplishing the allegedly impossible sequence, then we’ve demolished the foundation that supports the edifice erected by the “It’s impossible!” crowd. They won’t admit defeat, of course. They never do. Instead they’ll demand of us what they never demand of themselves; they’ll want absolute proof that what we’ve described is the specific way the sequence really did happen, and if we can’t do that (which we can’t) they’ll huff and puff that we’ve merely concocted a “just so” story. They’ll completely fail to grasp that if we’ve shown one possible method, then … well, it isn’t impossible after all.

Before playing, let’s be sure to avoid the first two fallacies we’ve described earlier in this series of essays. You remember the odds against dealing a specific sequence of 52 cards, don’t you? The chance of achieving such an outcome is only one in 8.06581752 times 1067. That doesn’t bother us because we’re not the Intelligent Designer, intentionally intervening to achieve the entire sequence. We don’t need to collapse the continuum; we’re just going to take it one card at a time. Also, we know about the scale of things, so we’ll take advantage of the large number of players and the long span of time available to us.

Now we’re ready to start. The game at each table is to deal out a shuffled deck, one card at a time, and end up with the cards in their original sequence. Ah, I see that you’re worried; you fear that it’s nearly impossible to win this game. Normally, it would be; but don’t be confused by the deck of cards analogy. This isn’t a normal game! Remember the fallacy under discussion — failure to appreciate the nature of biology. Be of good cheer, because by using evolutionary algorithms, the game works like this, at each of the million tables we’re watching:

1. Each table has a differently-shuffled deck. Each card dealt is a mutation that appears in an act of reproduction. Mutations are common, but they happen randomly from our point of view. They’re quite natural, however, because they follow the rules of organic chemistry. A card may appear in the next generation or we may have to wait a few generations. It doesn’t matter. We have time.

2. Only players at those tables where the first card dealt is an ace of spades will remain in our game. The others vanish. They don’t necessarily die (many mutations are harmless), but we’re no longer interested in them. For our purposes they’ve lost the game, and we’ll let them drift away into the biosphere. The losers may still be lurking around and playing a different game of their own, but we’ve dismissed them from million tables we’re watching. Note that although we’re being selective about the players we observe, we’re not actually interfering with them.

3. The players with an ace of spades then reproduce — this is biology, remember? — and we’re soon back to a million tables with players in our game. Unlike the creationists, we’re not watching only one creature and waiting an arbitrarily short time for it to develop something complicated, so that when it doesn’t (which is likely) we can foolishly claim that we’ve disproved the theory of evolution. Life doesn’t work like that except in creationist literature.

4. The next round begins with dealing card number two. At every table we’re watching, all the players are now “ahead of the game,” because they’ve already drawn the ace of spades. By the way, because we’re watching an existing feature develop, we know that the sequence we’re observing wasn’t fatal to those who have it, so we don’t need to worry that these mutations will injure those who get them.

5. The same rules apply for getting the two of spades. Those players that do it survive and multiply. The others drift away from the tables, and will be replaced by reproducing “ace-deuce” players. Bear in mind that not every “ace-deuce” player will stay in the game. Some may draw a card that proves fatal to survival, and some may fail to survive and breed for other reasons. These things happen. If players die, they’ll be replaced. That’s how it is in this game. It’s all a matter of numbers, reproduction, time, and death. But enough players should survive — and reproduce — that we’ll always have a million in the game.

6. Repeat for the three of spades. Then again for the next card. Keep going. Some players may never get beyond the first mutation or two. That’s okay. We have enough players that one of them should eventually get the next card, and when that happens it will reproduce and fill the other tables with its progeny. The game will never lack for players, and each round is just like the first — some player will draw the right card, and soon we’re back to a million players again. If we’ve already been through five or six cards, every one of the million players now has those cards because they’re the descendants of prior winners.

7. By now you can see how this is going to end. If not, go back and read through the steps of the game again. Eventually we will end up with one table where the cards are all dealt in sequence. It probably took a long time, and we went through a great number of players that didn’t draw the right card at the right time. When we finally get one player with the right sequence, it will reproduce, and before long we’ll have a million of them. Maybe more. Game over.

What did we learn from this? Several things:

The sequence of mutations needed for significant changes doesn’t happen simultaneously. It’s step by step, and each step is entirely possible because it involves reproduction and mutation on a massive scale. Evolution works with large numbers. No miracles, just a long chain of natural events.

The initial winner is a distant descendant of the first player that drew an ace of spades, perhaps millions of years earlier. From that long ago first card to the last, the odds against any one of the billions in this generation being the winner were indeed immense, but considering the rules of the game, it shouldn’t surprise us at all that there has been a winner. (If the lottery worked this way, you could keep an old ticket that had one correct number out of six, and then continue playing that ticket in future lotteries until you got a second correct number — the first number would always be good — and so on until you finally got six winning numbers. Nice game.)

Although we might be tempted to marvel at the winner’s “luck,” we should remember that there were probably trillions of others in related lines of descent that were dropped from the game because they didn’t inherit the string of mutations that this one did. It’s not luck, it’s statistics.

What becomes of the losers and their descendants? There are trillions of them. Some lines became extinct, but others are probably flourishing. Their own sequence of cards reveals that they’re related to the winners, and it can be shown exactly at what point they dropped out of our game. There’s nothing wrong with them, but they’re not the same as the players we’re watching. They’ll go their own way, perhaps mutating in some different direction. It’s a big world with room for lots of variation. Hey, that’s why there are still monkeys!

Amazingly simple, isn’t it? Evolution bypasses the odds. A successful mutation needs only to occur once, out of trillions of opportunities. Then it will rapidly multiply. Losing events are discarded. The same odds apply to the next successful mutation, and so on. Did you get that? The “odds calculator” is reset with each round, and every generation is the start of what is virtually a new game.

Winners not only remain in the game, but they reproduce, so that in the next round their descendants have already won the prior round — and all the rounds that went before. Each new round is played only by winners, and they’re always producing more winners to replace those who lose. How do the odds look now?

So that’s the third fallacy — failure to appreciate the nature of biology. All creationists’ arguments that involve this fallacy are worthless. Evolution works. You can bet on it.

@kazekage1 ahem...LOOOLLOL.LOLOLOOLOOOOOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLLLLOOOOOOOOOOL

hold on next to bezee, that one about kubo saving the bankais for later makes sense, except for the fact that it makes no sense in story. they should have gone all out it was illogical.
and hitsugaya stabbing notreally aizen makes little sense, why...see for yourself, he thinks to himself before being stabbed...

he Inevitability of Evolution (Part 2
THE NEXT FALLACY in this series (after Part I) is failure to appreciate the scale of things: When some creationist says that “the odds” against a particular series of mutations are so enormous that … [blah, blah] … he fails to grasp the immensity of the time and numbers involved. What he’s doing in his mind is watching one creature and one line of its descendants, waiting for the mutations to appear. He’ll probably wait forever.

But in the case of bacteria, for example, there are (I’ve read) maybe 100 million (108) of the little darlings in only one cubic foot of sea water. The earth has 328,000,000 cubic miles of ocean water, which is 4.83 × 1019 cubic feet. That’s 4.83 x 1027 bacteria in the oceans. Each one divides every 30 minutes. There are 8,766 hours in a year, so every bacterium reproduces 17,532 times a year. This means there are 8.46 x 1031 bacterial reproductive acts every year. That’s a whole lot of reproducing and mutating going on. In a billion years — a span we can grasp but which is forbidden to creationists — it’s 8.46 x 1040 bacterial reproductive acts.

Because evolution works on such a large scale, we recognize the incredible enormity of the creationist’s blunder when he says: “I’ve been watching the bacteria in this petri dish for weeks, and no platypus has climbed out yet.” When we say “large scale,” we’re not indulging in puffery. Ten to the 40th power is a big number — a very big number. For comparison, the observable universe is estimated to be 2.6 x 1040 times as large as a nucleus of an atom. Numbers of this order of magnitude have provided endless fascination for scientists, as can be seen here: Dirac large numbers hypothesis. Now we can add to that collection of natural wonders the reproductive acts of bacteria in a billion years.

Regarding the time scale, Darwin understood its necessity, and recognized it as a potential problem, because the age of the sun (approximately 4.6 billion years) was not then known, and the most educated estimates at the time seemed woefully insufficient for evolution to have occured. Darwin wrote to Alfred Russel Wallace (the co-discoverer of natural selection) in 1869: “Thomson’s views of the recent age of the world have been for some time one of my sorest troubles …” The reference is to William Thompson, later Lord Kelvin. The full text of that letter can be found here: The life and letters of Charles Darwin. As we now know, the issue was resoundingly resolved in Darwin’s favor. A good discussion of the Darwin-Kelvin dispute is presented here: The Age of the Sun.

The alleged odds against a sequence of mutations melt away with so many possibilities existing every hour for an enormous span of years, especially when it’s realized that all a tiny mutation (one step in the sequence) needs to do is occur once. Thereafter it’s part of the world’s bio-inventory, and each of its offspring, growing increasingly numerous, has the same mutating odds that its ancestor did. Just as there were billions of opportunities per hour for the first step to happen, in a very short time there will be billions of opportunities per hour for the second step to be added to the first, and so on. These things don’t happen all at once. They don’t have to. They have time and numbers on their side.

Now consider DNA — a long string of hundreds of millions, sometimes billions of chemically bonded base pairs of atoms. The assembly of such a sequence is declared by creationists to be an impossible string of random coincidences — as if its existence were the sudden result of all those atoms, aimlessly moving around in distant locations, finding one incredible moment when they just happen to fly together and somehow assemble themselves into just the right string. But it doesn’t happen like that. It’s step by step, involving billions of events an hour over a huge scale of time.

It’s not strictly relevant to the fallacy under discussion, but we should briefly mention something that creationists often overlook when they insist that DNA is miraculous. Atoms don’t behave like a Teflon-coated ball-bearings. DNA is based on organic chemistry. Carbon atoms are very promiscuous. Long, complicated, carbon-based molecules form naturally. If the elements are present, you can’t really prevent it. Organic molecules have even been observed off the earth, in comets and interstellar dust clouds. Earth’s early oceans would probably have been full of them. Those are the building blocks from which more complex molecules can form. Before very long, the oceans are full of useful sub-assemblies that don’t need to be “invented” all over again. DNA doesn’t “defy the odds” to abruptly assemble itself from the random wandering of disassociated atoms; and imagining that it does only increases the creationists’ confusion about the odds against such structures.

The idea of building blocks ties in with the first fallacy we discussed earlier — collapsing the continuum. Whatever accumulated mutations you may have in your genetic configuration, you can stop thinking of them as mutations — they’re you. That’s the initial state as far as your offspring are concerned. Either a new mutation will appear or it won’t, and all the generations before you, going right back to the proverbial pond scum, are irrelevant in “computing the odds” of the future. The next generation, like the last, doesn’t start from ground zero. None of them do; none ever did. Over an immense time scale and after uncountable natural iterations, you have arrived at where you are today. It’s pointless to ponder the odds against the past, because the past has already happened. The future starts now; it’s based on the present which is a 100% certainty. How do you like those odds?

So now you know the second fallacy: thinking small, or failure to appreciate the scale of things. All creationists’ arguments that involve this fallacy are worthless. Evolution works. You can bet on it.

In Part III of this series we will consider another fallacious argument used by creationists: failure to appreciate the nature of biology.

The Inevitability of Evolution (Part I)

PERHAPS THE SECOND-MOST IGNORANT of the common objections to the theory of evolution (after the ever-popular “Why are there still monkeys?”) involves some kind of objection based on the imagined “odds” against this or that biological feature appearing “completely at random.” The best known general form of this objection is presented by the Discovery Institute, a well-funded collection of creationists who pretend to offer scientific opposition to evolution.

In response to the question What is the theory of intelligent design? they offer this: “The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.” Whatever the Discovery Institute may say about this, it’s nothing but a claim that evolution is far more improbable than their conjectured designer.

This kind of argument — which is essentially saying “I don’t believe it!” — could be employed against more than evolution. A creationist could look at the current totality of English history, or the biosphere, or whatever, and impulsively exclaim that it’s “impossible” for such to have occurred without outside guidance. But is it really?

If England is impossible, so of course is the rest of human history. So are you, because the innumerable events leading to your conception are vast beyond comprehension. Everything is impossible to such a mentality. At what point does reductio ad absurdum intervene to put an end to this nonsense? “Never,” replies the creationist. “Prove I’m wrong!” Thus it appears that we need this series of articles.

There are several variations of the argument that the odds are against evolution, all of them fallacious. Some formulations involve different fallacies, some involve them all. This series of articles will consider a few of them.

The first fallacy is “collapsing the continuum.” The usual application involves a computation of the supposed odds against the happening of some sequence of events. The fallacy consists of wrongly treating the entire sequence of events as if it were one single event.

For example, let us consider the odds against, say, tossing a coin 100 times and getting it to turn up “heads” every time. Of course, the chance of getting some string of results — any one at all — is 100%. But the chance of getting 100 heads in sequence, or any specific string of coin tosses involves an exponential computation — one chance in two for the first toss, then the same thing for the next, etc. At the end of the sequence, the likelihood of a specific outcome is so minuscule that it’s declared to be “virtually impossible.” [The actual odds against tossing 100 heads in sequence are 2100, or approximately 1.27 times 1030.]

However, at any step along the way the chance of getting heads on the next toss is one out of two, or 50%. So if you had already enjoyed an improbable sequence of tossing heads, the chance of success for the next toss is still 50-50. Confusing the odds for each step (which are always 50-50) with the odds for the entire sequence (1 in 1.27 times 1030) involves the fallacy of collapsing the continuum.

Let’s make it more complicated than heads or tails. Consider a deck of cards. Each shuffle of a deck of cards has an outcome which is one in 52! (That’s 52 factorial, which is 8.06581752 times 1067.) It’s a huge number, which can be a metaphor for the odds (quite unknown) against our presently-existing biosphere. For comparison, the estimated number of stars in the universe is “only” 1021. Source: this NASA webpage.

By comparing those exponents we can see that the odds against any particular card shuffle are truly beyond astronomical. Yet, if you go ahead and shuffle a deck … ta-da There it is. You’ve obtained a virtually impossible outcome.

The point of the card-shuffle example is not that our particular biosphere isn’t unlikely, because it is. It’s just that whatever biosphere gets produced will be equally unlikely. Ours is no more unlikely than any other. If you went back to 4 billion years ago and started the whole thing all over again, you’d probably end up with a totally different mix of species, none of them exactly like what we have now. But this particular shuffle of the cards is ours. We’re unique. Never to be repeated. Irreplaceable. Priceless. This is why — contrary to the endlessly repeated claims of the creationists — the evolutionary point of view places a far higher value on humanity than one where we could be wiped out and started up again on a whim.

One can, if so inclined, see the hand of Providence (excuse me, the Intelligent Designer) in the outcome. Or one may decline such speculations, because each step along the way is a natural event, and the outcome is therefore every bit as natural as its component events. There’s no scientific answer to such questions. But there’s always Occam’s Razor.

Similarly, the odds against the history of England being what it has been are probably even greater (I wouldn’t even guess at how to quantify that). It wouldn’t be repeated the same way, even if it could be started all over again. It happened, quite naturally, day by day. In retrospect, the sequence that occurred is improbable, sure, but no more than any other that might have resulted; and despite the “odds” against it, there’s nothing impossible or miraculous about any of it.

The biggest problem with these computations (coin tosses, card shuffles, English history, or the biosphere) is that if you take all the events that ever happened and then whomp up some kind of monster mathematical result by stringing all the steps together, then you miss the key point: each step along the way is mathematically on its own! It’s an error to assign the characteristics of the entire sequence to an individual step. For further insights, see the Gambler’s Fallacy.

So that’s the first fallacy: assuming the entire sequence is all one step, which we’ve named collapsing the continuum. All creationists’ arguments that involve this fallacy are worthless. Evolution works. You can bet on it.

In Part II of this series we will consider another fallacious “odds” argument used by creationists: thinking small, or failure to appreciate the scale of things.

PnJ=TnJ. Plot no Jutsu
is in the form of deus ex machina.
Deus ex machina-"is a plot device whereby a
seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly
and abruptly solved with the contrived and
unexpected intervention of some new event,
character, ability, or object."-Wikipedia
"Whether to accept the author's word on a
particular matter or not ultimately ties into
logic fundamentals. Kishimoto's word is only
indispensible when his assertion is
legitimate. Whenever Kishimoto makes an
assertion, he is making a positive claim. For
example, if he claims (via character
statement/battle/whatever) that Naruto is
stronger than Sasuke, he has to prove the
claim beyond a reasonable doubt. Now if the
author attempted to prove his point by
having Naruto defeat Sasuke, he'd have to
do so in a manner that doesn't break the
suspension of disbelief (e.g. Naruto lands
the final blow when Sasuke magically
become powerless for some unexplainable
reason like what happened with Kabuto and
Pein), then the author's argument loses
validity. In other words, failure to prove the
point leads to the author's claim being void.
"-Franckie
"Suspension of disbelief is an essential
ingredient for any kind of storytelling.
Authors are given free reign by the audience
because of the nature of the story's setting.
Suspension of disbelief, however, ultimately
rests on the reader's willingness to accept
what the author has presented in exhange
for entertainment. Failure to provide
reasonable explanations can lead to a
violation of the reader's suspension of
disbelief. Other reasons as to why the
author's intent can be treated with
skepticism are that authors are not
infalliable, which lead to mistakes as you
highlight, and that the author's
interpretations are no more valid than the
reader's.
Going back to my example regarding Naruto
and Sasuke, the story (aka Kishimoto)
asserts Naruto > Sasuke and "proves" it via
Naruto defeating Sasuke in a fight. There is
a problem with Kishimoto's claim, however.
Because Sasuke magically lost the ability to
defend himself like how Kabuto couldn't
defend himself when Naruto rammed a
Rasengan into him, the suspension of
disbelief has been violated

@wackyj its just like when the three sannins fought and Jiraiya 'forgot' to use sage mode.
Also durng that fight, why the hell did kabuto stop ans stare while narutard was forming his rasengan. Plot no jutsu.

narutomangaunabridged.tumblr.com/tagged/Manga/page/9

apforums.net/showthread.php?t=29533 for those naruto fans whose heads might start to swell.

@Nbeezee I was being sarcastic, the general consesnsus is bleach has no plot.
@WackyJ1 the quincy are back. Failed genocide much.
One thing that bothered me in blech(not a typo) was Aizen vs the captains. None of the captains used bankai andthe fact that when hitsugaya stabbed aizen it was impossible for him to swap with hinamori. Also, Toshiro was struggliong against espada no6 but went toe to toe with espada no 3. Bull*shit
P.s no one here has answered my questions.

@feraz what happens when you are trapped in a sphere of water. Me thinks you drown.
Also, the test was a test in epionage skilled, naruto failed and should not have progressed any further.

Here are the views of a racist white from the 17th century, sound familiar:.
u r obviously sick
is being nigger natural
were u conceived via a nigger union
so pls Shut da fcukup
i grewup reading comics - now imagine
introducing a kid to a nigger comic- isnt that
sickening
trying to pollute the minds of kids early-
bleeping asswipes
is that what u call rights and freedom of
choice=- u bloody nitwit

@next2beezee what plot?

all right Kazekage 1, I have posted pages for you to see, the end of sasuke and deidara, please show where sasuke got the chance to do all that bull. Kishi could have simply made tobi do it.
Imo naruto went down the moment kakashi began to open blackholes with sharingan.

@nexebezee lolwhut, I've read every chapter of bleach.
Soul society 9/10
Hueco Mundo 7/10
Fake Karakura town 3/10
Fullbringer arc 3/10
Current arc...
In bleach we have bland designs (e.g Tsukishima and Ginjou look like Aizen's brother. Random sixth seat shinigami popping up looking like aizen who dyed his hair), idiocy like kenpachi falling to shikai Ichigo and Defeating an opponent that masked bankai ichigo could not beat, Yammy being 0 espada, no backgrounds in drawings, blandfight panels, plagiarism (e.g riruka looking like Perona 2.0 and giriko like King Bradley) Aizen planning out Ichigo's life...
I can list from now ttill next year.

www.mangasky.com/Naruto/362/15/www.mangasky.com/Naruto/362/16/www.mangasky.com/Naruto/362/17/www.mangasky.com/Naruto/362/18/www.mangasky.com/Naruto/362/19/www.mangasky.com/Naruto/362/20/
Now please, between page 19 and 20, sasuke who was too weak to keep sharingan. Summoned manda, genjutsu and reverse summoned him. All while the bomb was going off.
http://narutomangaunabridged.tumblr.com/tagged/Manga/page/7
The pics are lolfunny.

@darui, the test was for espinage skills, he didn't answer questions 1-9, it is not a plot hole, it falls under bad writing.
Me I'm have the idea that sasuke is the root of the manga's problem. Sharingan was cool at first, czn copy powers, cool. Can cast Illusions...I'll run with that. Now it can shoot fire gotter than the sun, warp reality, summon spiritual warriors, I mean WTF, it's just lazy writing. Sasuke in a bind- meh he can just summon a snake and escape in less than 1/22 a second. Lazy writing, I hate lazy writers.

WackyJ1: And What's all this about my Boy Sasuke not supposed to escape Deidera's blast?
I actually believe he was capable of and able to enter Manda's mouth within 3s.. Because Sasuke i believe is very deductive, you see a guy who eats clay with his hands and then brings out Clay based Sculptures that are bombs and later he opens his chest and puts clay inside while talking about his greatest art yet. I think sasuke was able to put two and two together and get BANG!! And Since making the summoning hand seal is easy and sasuke is quite adept at making hand seals very fast would have finished before Deidera said Katsu! But Manda took another 1/8s of the blast before being Reverse Summoned by Suigetsu..
It's also wrong to assume that Sasuke was out of Chakra because when he was out of Chakra from fighting Itachi, and he tried to do another Jutsu, Orochimaru manifested..

where are you getting ths 3secs sh*t frm, the bomb was blowing already and he had done zip. When bombs start blowing, you dont have 3 seconds you have zip.