Hi Layi and Purist,

First of all, we all should respect ourselves as individuals. I’m a Nigerian but sometimes I get frustrated with what comes out of some people’s mouth. When did expressing my opinion on the forum became ITK,


I plan to support my position and argument from materials you have provided. You provided 2 things: websites and MO (modus operandi) of this forex deals.

You provided the following websites:
www.damadsuite.com
www.forexexposed.com
www.pipcity.com
www.epaymentnigeria.com
www.deoulakinyemi.com
www.relaxbusiness.com

Websites
On damadsuite, the link http://damadsuite.30.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=63 shows that this s a full MLM initiative. I will not reproduce the content here but it is based on a pyramid approach of investing. Someday they will stop and God help those who are towards the end of the pyramid. The way these scams work is they behave legit for sometime and then run off with the booty when it is large enough.

Forexexposed and pipcity are no longer active. I tried going to the site several times but it came up blank. That means they have either reached their objective and cut out or they have advised their members of another website address to use. They change web addresses and locations when the heat from investigators is getting hot.

Relaxbusiness is based in the Carribean Sea. This area is noted for the shelter it grants to those who want to become invisible if required. The most popular of this islands is called Cayman Islands and it is where a lot of drug lords seeking shelter for their fund hide it. A lot of rich people in the US also shelter their fund there because no one can there and investigate anything. If ur money gets to that place, you better be there with it.

Deolu akinyemi and epayment site deals with ecash. Ecash is stuff I discussed before about egold, they all came from the same Dxinone root (based in the carribean as well).

MO
Some of your comment on the MO scares the hell out of me. Your comment on relax business telling you they will pack up after some time not only confirmed what I already knew, but showed the type of human being you are.

Now for those who want to learn some things I’ve learnt.

Real FOREX is trading currencies. You buy one currency and sell the other in the hope that one will appreciate and the other depreciates. For example, Naira and Dollar. I’m long on Naira now because I think over the time Naira is going to appreciate against the dollar or dollar is going to weaken and hence depreciates. There are lot of fundamental and technical analysis that determines the position you take in the forex mkt.

The trick in real forex is volume. Or long term holding. The returns this guys are promising are not from the real forex mkt. (because they are simply impossible to achieve). A very good forex trade would have been USD/CAN. Which is up about 8% in a year. That is considered spectacular in the mkt and the Canadian govt is even looking at options now to ensure that the Canadian dollar stops appreciating against the US.

This is probably my longest post on this forum and I’m sorry it was so long. It is about time people get educated about different scam initiatives. Like I said earlier, do not invest in this type of forext because you don’t know when these guys are gonna pack up and you will never be able to find them.

Layi said I’m hiding behind the anonymous nature of the Internet. The nature of my job requires that I keep a low profile but I can be reached via email at tolalekan@rogers.com. For people who will like to talk to me.

Layi,

The forex u r referring to is another level of MLM whose roots is in the Cayman island. It is supposedly based on real gold in vault somewhere no one knows. The challenge with this form of investment is that it is not based on standard value derivation principles. They tell you to invest, your fund appreciates, u buy some types of gold called digots, they have once a day batch run process that is supposed to take the value of the real gold and split it among the cash out there. This form of investment is enjoying some run right now because the price of real gold is going up. So people are being fooled into putting funds into it. This is not real forex and and should not be confused with legitimate forex trading.

It is cool to see appreciation in your investment on the computer but try and get that hard earned cash in paper form. Try and pull out ur .5 million and you will come across certain restrictions, u can only take out a certain max in a month. Like I said, this is a form of MLM and the folks to get in first make the cash and God help all those who come after or enter when the mkt is about to tank. The trick is no one knows when the mkt will turn and I will say get your cash out NOW if you can.

I think folks have explained what yahoo yahoo means at length and there is no need for me to flog the issue.

Bankole01,

Well said and laid out argument. I understand your point clearly and I agree with the expected output of your argument-(moral society). I think the governor is working the symptoms and not the root of the problem. We cannot provide a long term solution to the morality problem by attacking the symptoms, it will grow back.

my 2 cents.

Biker for life.

Thanks Naija4ward.

What value do you get from the CSCS website? I just want to find out if it is worth the stress of travelling to Nigeria. I will subscribe to th IBTC one ASAP.

Hi folks,

Does anyone have information on where I can get daily .csv or excel of stock information from the NSE and the CSCS? I tried registering at NSE website and that of CSCS and nothing has come off it.

Marjson,

I did not want to respond to this post but when I decided to. Like some people have mentioned: education is the best investment. Life is full of upsa and downs, dangote flour, bank shares may go kaput tomorrow but ur education will stay with you.

It is very sad in Nigeria today that a graduate cannot get a good job but I will advise you of some strategy
1. don't go and study sociaology, yoruba or all those soft courses. It will be harder for you to get a job with that kind of degree
2. study engineering, sciences, computer, etc
3. when u get into school, don't do guy guy, face ur study squarely and come out with a 1st class.
4. career wise, u set a ceiling for yourself by not getting an education

It is a lot easier if you do such course and come out with a great degree.

Does that translate definitely to a good job? No. Does it increase your chances a great deal? Yes.

I finished in Unilag in '98 and most of my friends that finished with good grades have good jobs. What I left Unilag with still follows me till today. People want to meet you and talk to you when they hear that you have a 1st class or the best student in your class.

Lastly and most importantly, no job is secure or guaranteed, you should use your degree to improve ur chances of starting a very good business or good network. Education broadens your mind, it opens you up to ideas and people.


My 2cents.

PS: let me know what u decide. I'm kind of interested in this.

Hi Folks,

Let me give my 2 cents on the issue disccussed so far. There are four areas I will like to touch upon
1. We have a problem in Nigeria
2. Western world expects only bad news from Africa
3. The media cultures are different
4. What we can do to in our own little way

1. It is a fact that we have issues, problems in Nigeria and we broadcast this to the world everytime because we are the most populous black country in the world. We are the 5th largest oil exporter to the US so Uncle Sam is always looking at us and watching anything that happens.

2. The western media feeds their audience what they want to hear. A documentary or news of good things from Africa will not sell or arouse as much as bad news. The most recent case is the kidnap of the 3 year old in Nigeria. None of the western media reported that the mother was Nigerian. All they reported was that the father was british. Now look at the case of the british kid that was kidnapped of recent (I think in the Phillipines or somewhere). The media reported that the parent were british. Now the innuendo here may be subtle but recognising a Nigerian parent will kind of dilute the impact of the message: Kidnappers in Nigeria are brutal and they only kidnap foreigners.

3. I think this is the most important of all my points. The media culture is different. Western media hypes a lot: polish the truth, exagerates and tells only part of the story. I was a consultant so I have an idea of how to spin whatever information whichever way you want to spin it. In Africa, our media does not hype and they don't know how to hype. For example, you don't see the projects (settlement for poor people), reserves (where the whites have forced the indians to live in poverty) in mainstream media in the western world, all you see are pictures wallstreet, whitehouse, etc. While in Nigeria, how many times have you seen the picture of aso rock in the news but we can all remember oshodi pictures.

4. How do we bring about a change? The most critical solution has been discussed. Clean up our acts. Forget image laundering, we need to clean our country and start doing things better. The western media will resist this (Ghana has been prosperous fo so long now but how many times have you heard about Ghana in the western media). But with time, they will come around and will become our friend. Case in point: China.

denex:

This is the kind of neo-colonialist superiority complex that I was hoping would not come from the almighty and sacred Jandons. But finally, here it is.

80% of the families of all the corrupt politicians abroad and all those drug pushers and all the Nigerians in foreign prisons. 80% of them are not fraudulent. It is the masses that have been robbed and bastardized that one cannot hazard a % for. Thank you very much. God bless you. God bless you O! You do well.

Denex,

I take it that your post is in response to my post. What is neo-colonialist superiority complex from jandon? Instead of putting words together to create a fanfare why don't you logically focus on the issue. Now to your point, your argument (if I may call it that) makes one fundamental assumption that is flawed: Most Nigerians leaving outside the shore of Nigeria are either drug pushers or relatives of corrupt politicians. I don't even think their # combined is up to 20% of Nigerians leaving outside the country. We have a large percentage of Nigerian professionals in diaspora and they are not crooks. I am one of them and i know a lot more who are like that.

I await your sound logical analysis to counter my position.

My people,

I am aghast at the responses to this post. I bury my head in shame for all of us who responded that the average Nigerian is fraudulent. If that is a reflection of who we are, then how can we salvage the future for future generation? I beg, we need to change our orientation. No wonder the whiteman thinks we are all crooks. I am a Nigerian, I am not fraudulent, it is hard to survive in Nigeria today if you are not but that does not translate into the fact that we are all fraudulent. I will hazard a guess that about 80% of Nigerians leaving outside Nigeria are very straight in their dealings but I cannot hazard same % for those at home.

Our leadership failure overtime has turned us into crooks and some names I cannot print, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. I believe people are pressured into fraudulent activities just to make ends meet but a whole lot of that will disappear when we realize we can live decently without getting into deception.

The average Nigeria is not a crook, he may behave fraudulently just to survive and show me a man who will do differently if he is in the Nigerian shoe.

FLT

Hi Folks,

Does anyone have the recipe for making Agege bread? I really want to taste that bread and I'm willing to use my oven to try it out. Please if you have the recipe or you know how I can get it, please let me know.

Leilah,

Not all Nigerian men are pigs or behave like one. Some treat their women like queen and are very good fathers. I don't believe divorce will solve your problem because the next guy may not be better - whether he is Nigerian or not. It seems you guys have communication and expectation issues which can easily be resolved by going to a marriage counselor. You also have kid(s) involved and you can never dimension the impact of a breakup on the kids and their kids.

I will say give it a thought, sleep over it for a year, get advice from friends and forget the fact that he is Nigerian, that has very little to do with how he is behaving.

Fellow Nigerians,

It seems there are 3 areas that are being discussed. The first one is that he declared his assets: should he have done that or not? He made a promise to declare his asset and I think he did fulfil that promise by declaring them.  The second one is the authenticity of the declared asset: is this padded or exagerated? I'm not into asset management or valuation so I cannot really say if the declaration is padded or not. My view as a neophyte in asset mgt is that there is no padding. The third one is how come he amassed so much - about 1 billion in asset for a Nigerian whose brother was at the forefront of Nigerian politics for close to 40 years is nothing. I was expecting something close to 10 billion. My respect for the man grew a 1000% when I read that it is just about 1 billion. Most state governors get more than that in less than a term in office.

Asset declaration is used by govts of developed nations and most public companies (in the US, Canada and UK). The primary reason for asset declaration is to limit the ability of the holder of that position to amass weatlh from illegal means. It has worked and it will continue to work. He cannot come and tell us in 1 year that his asset is now 2B. He will have to show us a breakdown of how he acquired a billion in just 1 year.

His declaration will not only prove to Nigerians everywhere that he is serious about fighting corruption, but I can assure you that as of this morning, things have started happening even in the private sector. I just learnt that a CEO of a bank is looking at using SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) to manage his assets. SPVs are used to coverup asset and liability (or in the case of an individual, networth) of a company. His action has started started something that no other leader in Nigeria has done. The international community is also watching keenly.

I will say we give kudoos where it is due and thumps up to him.

Folks,

I don't think .ng is hosted in Nigeria. The last I checked, it was being done via an NGO initiative by Randy Bush somewhere in the US. I think the ccTLD is hosted somewhere in ZA and with backup in other locations.

You cannot insure shares using insurance as we know it. Infact, you cannot insure shares. You can limit the downside risk (and hence the profit potential) by using a combination of bonds, calls, puts and the shares you bought. Not many market in the world offer derivatives. US and UK exchanges offer derivatives and many other exchanges process thier derivatives through a partnership with these big exchanges.

We have some financial engineers that have designed insurance (as we know it) for shares with SWAPs and Futures, but the underlying securities are still the traditional stock + put and shares+ calls.

I know this sounds like greek and it will take some time to sink in (it took a long time for me). Let me know if you need more info.

Whao! That is a lot of post and I almost did not get through all of them, but I did. Before I say anything, let me say 1 or 2 things about myself. I'm a Nigerian in Diaspora, I have certifications in web design and development, I was trained by the largest bank in the world to initially develop and now manage websites. I've managed over 10 website development and these are very transactional website: they sit on the bank infrastructure backbones.

Why all the noise above, just because I want people to have an idea of where I am coming from. Now with that said, to the main point. I both agree and disagree with Abby. I agree with is point on the fact that the 'visible' websites from Nigeria are not all that much but I disagree that all Nigerians are amateur. Many contributors have provided reasons supporting both arguments so I will add my 2 cents.

I know other Nigerians who work on award winning websites but cannot advertize that because they are not supposed to. I cannot advertize the work I've done - though our site won award 2 global awards 3 years running - because I'm bound by my contract to the bank. I know of Nigerians in other banks as well who are in the same shoes. We have Nigerians at the fore front of some of the best websites in the world.

Now to the Nigerian issues, developing a website is an art and a science. The sciense part is what you get when you go to school and learn how to use HTML, Flash, WebSphere and all the works, the art - which is the difficult part - comes from processes and procedures that are unique to organizations and the desired user experience. For example, before I even think of putting together a structure for a website, I would have had to look at the audience community, the infrastructure available for delivery, the desired performance of the site, the content of the site. What size of font will be good across all the browsers, what speed do I want, how heavy should each page be, where is my user community, do they read from left to right or from top to bottom, how many clicks do I desire to the farthest link on the site, how will the workflow be? what pixel is the site to be designed for, how will my images behave using this pixel points.

The above and many other are some of the questions that must be answered before you even fire up your dreamweaver. My experience with folks back home is that they fire up the dreamweaver first and then try to get the art done with time. While that will eventually work, it makes the initial work seem amateurish and not well-planned.

The good news is that the web community in Nigeria is picking up speed and steam and with encouragement, resolution of some of the infrastructural issues - bandwidth, IXP, NEPA, websites developed in Nigeria by Nigerians will stand to compete with any website from anywhere in the world.

Hi All,

Has anyone being able to buy First Bank Shares using the website they provided? I'm having difficulty using the site. I get a runtime error when I try to submit using the online subscription form.

Seun:

Chronically broke idiots with 'great business ideas that can be stolen' never cease to amuse and disgust me. I started a thread with the aim of meeting new people, and I am being treated as a thief. So I'm too dull to think about my own ideas, abi? One would think that with all the business ideas I have shared on this forum, I won't be treated this way. Yet again, I underestimated your intelligence. Nigerians are so disgusting; you are all worthless and dull.

Seun,

You need to watch your words carefully before exposing them to the whole world. What you say today may come to hunt you in 10 20 years. I've been a silent participant on this forum for some time and I thought age might be one of the reasons you behave the way you do. I put your age inbtw 25 and 30-let me know if that is wrong. Your writing style reflects your thought process and though I notice intelligence, I also notice a very destructive arrogant pride, elephantiasis of ego and 'I know it all' mentality. That is why you will refer to all Nigerians as disgusting, worthless and dull.

I strongly take an exception to that and I will ask that you apologize to everyone on this forum.

Taxes are complicated all over the world. Get a tax consultant.

Seun,

Seun:

If a local industry develops due to the imposition of an importation duty, that industry is not going to be able to survive the lifting of that importation duty in the future without massive job losses. That's why the US is still supporting farmers till this day despite the advent of modern technology. Protectionism is a trap that leads nowhere. if we impose tariffs on imported products from China, Japan, USA, they will impose tariffs on our own exports. It's a fool's game. At the end of the day, we would be miserable and yet still as poor as we are now (though the customs people will be rich).

Rather than all that nonsense, we should import the things we are not particularly good at producing and export the things that we are naturally good at producing - like cassava, oil, IT services and other things coming up.

We have a fundamental problem in Nigeria: we have refused to grow. We are still the same age we were donkey years ago. Now you don't throw a baby into a fight with grown ups, it is very obvious who will lose. One of the main goal of any govt is to protect the present and future well being of its people. Countries have done this in many ways: fixed currencies, capital flow restrictions, tariffs, etc. The whole objective is to grow the local industry to a stage where they can compete globally then open them up to the global mkt. Most industries in Nig can still not compete at a global level, the job of the govt at this stage will be to protect and nurture them.

Now with that said, we have peculiar problems in Nigeria: corruption and infrastructures issues. We cannot even grow this industries with the peculiar problems. We used to be strong in Cash crops before: cocoa, cashew, groundnut, etc but where are we today in those industries? Nigeria reason for free trade is different from that of most other countries and it is where politics, govt and businesses meet.

Every country has practiced protectionism to some extent in its history, case in point, the US of A. US is known for its unilateralism (myself only and I don't care what happens to anyone else). I do not have the time to go into how protectionism works in the US but the farmer case you mentioned is not because of protectionism. The govt has to subsidize the farmers because they don't want the price of food to be uncontrolled because they know that if you can control that, you can control practically everything else.

I think the way forward in Nigeria is to provide a helping hand to those industries by ensuring that the price of imported good are not less than that of the locally produced goods, as competition increases, the local prices will come down and these industries will then be able to compete with others.

FLT

Seun,

Govt controls the economic activities using 2 basic tools: fiscal and monetary policies. Fiscal policies are about taxes, goods and services while monetary policies are about the money market, liquidity in the market and velocity of money.

The govt can create jobs, cause job losses, make economy stagnant by using the 2 policies above. Govt is an indirect player in the mkt in the sense that it does not actually give u the job, it creates the environment required for the job to come. A good example of a fiscal policy implementation in Nigeria that has impacted the populace negatively is the import policies. Because of imports into Nigeria, the textile industry in Nigeria can no longer compete so they lay off people-job loss. Now I agree that there are other factors that may be responsible for why the cost of manufacturing is high in Nigeria, but the import policies is putting oil to the fire.

The govt is all in all when it comes to the economy, bad policy formulation and implementation can lead to disastrous or excellent result. You can be the most creative man in the world but bad policies can render your products and services useless. Let me know if you want to continue this conversation.

my 2cents.

The place to start from is the term investment-what does he mean by investment? According to dictionary, investment is "the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value". So what this means is that anything not directly correlated with generating income is termed investment. For a company a car will be an investment while in most cases for people, a car is not an investment but a depreciating asset. We have indirect investment, degrees, collectibles, etc. This cannot be classified under investment since I can not invest a degree and get returns. But I can use my degree to get more money.

Hi Kemjisuper,

good stuff. could you please send me a mail on cso@eseedgroup.com.

Amaratex,

Venture Capitalism (VC) is NOT fund without collateral. VCs look for opportunities (new or established) and if they think it is a good opportunity then invest in it and they use what you call term paper to address the contract. The contract limits what you can do, how much you must make and their cut in the business. Their collateral is the future cash flow (FCF) expected in the business.

I will suspect politics and power play. There is nothing stopping the major ISPs from coming together and starting it but they won't because of greed and "I want to be the only one" culture in Nigeria businesses today. A central coordinating and directing entity will do a better job. They will not be forcing anyone to buy anything because it is same internet just local traffic. What you will get is faster access to sites hosted in Nigeria. So every website that is targeted to Nigeria community can then be hosted in Nigeria. It will make better sense to do that.

Seun,

While I understand your position, be wary of generalization. I am a part of Nigeria web community and I know a lot of folks who are interested in getting a functional IXP in Nigeria. While in Nigeria, I used to pester NIG about this initiative and understand all the politics and power issues around it. I want to say that those issues should not detract from the benefits that can accrue to our nation if IXP is implemented very well. I know 1 or 2 things on how Internet works and I know that for a developing country, IXP implementation speeds up the local web community. Infact, the Internet as we know it today rest on US IXP.

Most websites being accessed from Nigeria today are routed through 1 of the 13 root servers (most of which are in the US). For example, if I want to access my bank account in GTB from my office in Nigeria, the traffic will take me to the US first, come to Nigeria, back to the US and finally to my desk. This takes time, resources which all translates into higher cost and it is better for organizations to host their website in the US (near the root servers). A very good example is this community, you should have tried hosting this community in Nigeria and see how fast and how many users would have come here.

I found the article below and I hope it sheds some light on the benefits of IXP. Don't let us throw out the baby with the bath water. something good may come out of this and it will be better if we are all ready to take advantage of such opportunity when it comes up.

http://www.internetpolicy.net/practices/ixp.pdf

Folks,

The IXP for Nigeria is finally taking off after many years of procrastination. I am aware that Nigeria Internef this initiativt Group (NIG) was in charge of this initiative about 4 years ago. The article below suggests otherwise. This will be a very good thing for Nigeria if implemented well and will force the Nigerian web community to develop faster. Does anyone have any information wrt to the news on the IXP at the link below?

http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=77201

Guys,

I am a Nigerian but not in Nigeria. I am interested in getting a website designer work with me on contract basis. I have decided to outsource to Nigeria not just because of cost, but also because I will like to develop the internet community in Nigeria. Let me have your resume at cso@eseedgroup.com. We can talk there.

FLT

You need to put some work out there. Let people know that you have done something. I am looking for someone on a contract basis.