[quote author=zayhal]Gma2012,
I hope you won't mind if your wife keeps male friends, interacts with them, call them, as long as she shows you love and care at home. Afterall, her fidelity and faithfulness should be to Allah. I really hope you do not /quote]

Well I don't talk to married women except my ex wife, so I wouldn't expect my wife to do same. Some muslimat that use to call me for advice before they got married wishes to continue but I told them that not without the consent of their husband.
Allah is the granter of success.

miss_bola: ^ u lots just read my story but refuse to answer my question. i said:

WHEN I AM 65 YEARS OLD MY HUSBAND WILL BE 77 YEARS OLD, I WILL LET HIM MARRY ANOTHER WOMAM, DOES THAT MAKE ME A GOOD MUSLIM WOMAN JUST LIKE PROPHET(PBUH)'S WIVES.

Nice story but there are lot of lesson in the story. Firstly we acquire lot of experience as we grow old, your man having been in a marriage before has become tested and he is now wiser to handle ups and down in marriage. Secondly from your narration no marriage is perfect and the earlier we realize this early on in marriage the better. We grew up from different background so our behavior and the way we see issues and reacts to them are bound to be different. We may not notice any lapses in the first three to five years of marriage to be generous because love is in the air and it helps not to notice most trivial things that may cause disagreement. But when love fades those things we have been overlooking quickly becomes things that causes disagreement.
If you succeeded in making him happy till that age, not by any piece of document or scheming and he decides to marry a second wife at that age then you would have succeeded as a good Muslim woman and Allah is not unmindful of what we do.
We can theorize but practical experience differ from one situation to the other. Issue of polygyny has always been thorny issue especially to women but Allah said in the qur'an that do we think when we say we believed that we would not be tested like those before us to know those that are sincere. I encourage sisters to be patience and forbears. Let your love for Allah be more than your love for your husband and then you will always strive to please Allah directly or through your husband. See him as a means of worshipping Allah and attaining perfection and viz-versa for the husband and inshallahu ta'ala we will all succeed. This life compare to eternity is like a minute compare to 24hrs. It is transient and what is with Allah is better and everlasting. The shining steel or gold we see and admire today were once crude and unrefined. Those metal have under gone changes from solid to liquid and back to solid through fire. Suffering and trials are not necessarily bad but a means of bringing out the best in us.
Allah is the granter of success.

maclatunji:

Don't say someone, call my name. We all know that you can't die before your predestined time but I am sure you got my drift.

Oh yes I did. May Allah grant us more understanding of the deen.

tbaba1234: Let be clear, interaction with females as a man shouldn't be beyond the limits set.

.......
There are no boy-girl friend relationships in islam. We interact with the best of manners but we do things the right way.

Thanks for the moderation. Yes any interaction between non related men and single women must have defined objectives and limited. People get into unholy situation due to too much proximity. Too much closeness can breed haram affection/feelings which becomes difficult to let go despite the discovery that the relationship cannot work or continue.
This may also explain why brothers with iman (shyness is part of faith) avoids some certain situation with women who do not have their relatives with them. However this should not prevent anybody from been cheerful and polite to whoever they meet.
I read something up there where somebody thinks polygamy shortens life. I am pleasantly amused so maybe my great father-inlaw who died recently at the age of 146 years would have remain alive for another 20 years if he had not marry four wives. (just musing loudly in Disbelief )
To Allah belongs all success.

zayhal: I don't know if this place is appropriate or I should create a new thread for it:

Is there anything like fidelity/faithfulness in the dictionary of a Muslim man? Many married muslim men would interact with single females, keep their numbers, call, text, chat etc with or without the knowledge of their wives. I once challenged my brother on this and he jokingly told me that what if he's looking for mathna? Though in his own case, he was joking. But many of them would say and do same claiming they aren't doing anything wrong.

And then, a man intending to go into polygyny and is constantly on the look out for mathna, thulaatha.m. Can such be said to be faithful to his wife?

Men, over to you.

I hope there would soon be a thread like causes of marital nushuuz ( misunderstanding, discord ) and separation and solutions so that people can speak out.
Meanwhile yes there is more than fidelity/ faithfulness in the dictionary of a Muslim man. Firstly Faithfulness/fidelity should be to Allah, his prophet and to everything Allah and his prophet calls to in Islam. Fidelity/ faithfulness to spouses are idea which are foreign to islamic marital institution but borrowed. A man should be careful of trampling on the right of others which includes the right of wife or wives as the case may be. If a man keeps interacting with single female and yet maintain care, love to the wife at home then he has not wronged the wife but rather he should beware of committing sin which is against his own soul and by extension sinning against Allah, which only Allah can forgives and not the wife.
He can only become unfaithful/infidel to Allah if he apostasizes or he abandons solat/prayer or commits those things that takes one outside the fold of Islam. Our wives, sisters should understand and bear with us, if we don't interact with single women how would the polygyny quota be filled but rather the sisters should encourage the men to avoid fornication which is a big offense in the sight of Allah. The woman can also enjoin the man to be careful when selecting and could help the man in making the right choice. Polygyny is not all about loss- loss situation but many win-win more often than not.
Allah said in the qur'an that we have an exemplary example in the prophet for us to copy from. We Muslim have no choice than to model ourselves after him. The prophet (saw) is a shy man even more than a girl who has just reached puberty yet he interacted with members of the community be it man, woman, old, young, single or married. In the cause of interaction he saw the ones he could marry among them and he did. Would you say the prophet is unfaithful to his wives No! May such thought perish and may Allah forgives us of our common and uncommon errors.
I hope you understood me.
Allah is the granter of success.

Sorry for repetition it is server induced.

Sorry for the rep

zayhal: Thank you very much deols.

Let's assume a man becomes a hypocrite and breaches the agreement, the wife gets a good lawyer and they go through all the proceedings, what does the woman stand to gain? Or what do both of them stand to gain or lose?

Will the judge rule that the man must go back to his promise and drop the idea of re-marrying? Whether this man agrees or disagrees, what would the couple's relationship be like afterwards?

Will the judge grant the woman divorce? In which case she loses her man/marriage afterall?

Like I have written before I have seen a couple that I heard had prenuptial vow and the man has remain committed to that vow till date. When people talk about polygyny he hardly contributes.
Now going back to the hypothesis that if he breaks the vow then would that qualify him for an hypocrite or a breaker of worldly vow? I write yes and no. Yes in the eyes of the woman who intended to tied him to herself but he may not necessarily be guilty under human inherited laws except it is well documented at the registry and no serious Muslim would go to registry to get married.
As for my second answer No! . no he is not an hypocrite if he does not know that a Muslim according to interpretation of some scholars should not have enter into such an oath, he made mistake by entering into such agreement, so he is excused but he should call the wife and explained the situation to her and apologize. If the woman refuses and insisted that he obey the agreement he can call on knowledgeable scholars to intervene.
If the brother knows the above opinion from the scholars and yet went ahead and several years into the marriage maybe due to increase in Iman and he decided to break the vow then he is a sinner but not necessarily an hypocrite and should repent to Allah and apologize to the wife. He should explain his intention and if she refuses then they can refer the case to shariah court.

However if the case is taken to common court the worst is that they would dissolve the marriage and probably ask the man to compensate her but would serious or sincere Muslim take marital case to Kufar's court? Some People do but it doesn't make it right. Now in all the above scenario is there anywhere the woman has gained spirutually or otherwise. In Yoruba culture they says you don't go to court and return back to be friend.

This forum should not be for hypothetical, academic or entertainment discussion only but could be a veritable source of knowledge where we can reasoned together share idea and admonish one another. If it become this then it becomes an act of ibaadah for everybody. Then we should also remember that no matter how vexatious a post or reply might be we are obligated to exercise restraint and avoid name calling. We can only secure our future within the context of Allah's pleasure and divine legislation. It is only the love of Allah and his prophet (saw) that we should cultivate, human being can fail and is prone to failure but when Allah's love is basis for all other love then we would never be disappointed. This world is nothing but chattel of deception but what is with Allah is better and everlasting.
Allah is the granter of success maa salaam.

Yes a good Muslim would not renege on promise. Maybe to make the prenuptial contract more solid a lawyer who is verse in divorce cases could help to prepare it for the sisters who wants it. I hope the bridegroom gets the chance to get a lawyer to interprete the contract document to him. Yes a good Muslim should not renege on promise but I wonder what would be the penalty if he defaults? Can the sisters think of one?

tbaba1234: That is a huge jump from a polygyny marriage clause to not treating the mother in law well. I do not see the logical progression here.

My reasoning and statement is borned out of experience. Women competes for attention and our mother even as old or as conservative they ought to be do so. Now going back to the link between the two line of thought don't you think a woman who cannot tolerate rivals would often more than not see the mother in-law as rival? Those cases I stated earlier were not hypothetical but real. This is not to offend anybody's sensibilities or to dissuade anybody from their determine line of action but as a general precaution to thee would be husband.

Will of Allah will prevail eventually.

Insha Allaahu Tbaba has given the soundest opinion on this and some scholars uses qur'anic evidence that Muslim are not bound by oath or vow that prevents them from carrying out duties that would be beneficial to Muslim society and by extension Islam at large.

I also understand kabsun's feeling of why someone would exchange marital vow that would render what is halal haraam, I guess your feeling is out of true Iman and may Allah increase you in iman. People do it, a well known sister with a PhD in Islamic studies often boast to other women that the husband dare not try polygyny since they had marital vow prohibiting polygyny. They are both in let say their fifties. At least the woman is happy with the situation but as for the man only Allah and the man knows whether he is happy or not.
For men who loves their mother they should be careful of the woman they marries. A woman who cannot tolerate co-wife would find it difficult to tolerate mother-inlaws either. No man in his right sense would be indifferent when he heard that his wife slapped the mother or abuses the mother . Your mother took care of you properly before you became the man your fiancé or wife admired and agreed to marry today. If you don't look acceptable your wife of today probably would not even consider you . The wife can leave you anyday but your mother remains your mother till the day of resurrection.
To allah belongs all success.

deols: Another thing many people dont talk about is d ability of the man 2 satisfy their s.exual need.

There was a thread on the home page not long ago of a man who died after his wives r.aped him. He had too many of them and while demanding their rights,he gave up the ghost.

The question to ask is,why marry many women when you wouldnt be able 2 meet their needs.

Good question. Firstly It is haraam for an impotent man to marry at all. Secondly it is also haraam for one who cannot sexually satisfy one woman to go for more than one wife which is why running to go and marry additional wife is not the solution to marital squabbles?
However statistic has it that 7 out of 10men between the age of 22 and 40 can handle more than one woman sexually and successfully. But due to conditions such as limited resources, and sinful nature of extra marital affairs people tend to suppress their desires with fasting and piety to avoid the wrath of Allah. You know that we Muslim don't live in isolation in Nigeria here. I have some Christian colleagues who would have qualify for a potential polygamist but I called them serial monogamist because on the streets of Nigeria they have up to dozen girl friends but comforting the woman at home that she is the only sugar in their tea.
Yes some Muslim men also does this preferring to leave the home "peaceful" with one wife while committing spiritual suicide outside. There are more proofs that indicates that polygyny is the norm in God's divine providence.
Have a nice day.

olawalebabs: @deols and Gma2012, thanks for your responses. If a man is trying to be just in the way he handle his wives, did he to factor in their individual different character?

Well as human we tends to be affected by people's behavioral display, but as Allah's worshipper we have to take cue from Allah on this. Despite the fact that some people among mankind are bad and do not worship Allah, Allah still give them their due provisions in this world. So a man has to try and overlook this when giving the women care, provision and shelter. Love is a thing of the heart which he has no total control over, even among our children we do love some more than the others but do we openly display this? no!. So same goes to treating women with care and dignity. Hope you understand this.

deols: I wasnt angry though. Neither did I call you khawaarij. I said that is how it starts. Or doesnt disbelief mean kufr anymore?

And u did say that my position was tantamount to kufr.

I thnk u'd rather face the issues than make claims to what constitutes kufr as u know that is quite sensitive just like you wldnt want d tag, khawarij.

I think what I said was very clear and I don't think you would oppose the content of the Qur'an so by extension you have not commit kufr. The advice is just for everybody and not only you to exercise restraint and pray for the best.
In other fora where you have every dick and Tom people uses a much more offensive tags than khawarij. We just have to bear with patience and that is why the fourth type of knowledge you acquire in da'wah is to know that you would be attacked when you call to that which gives live and endure with patience. Patience never spoils anything.
Good night sleep.

olawalebabs: By the way, this justice Allah refers to, is it absolute or relative? How can a man be just to 2 wives staying in different apartment with one having 2 kids and the other 4 kids?

The justice Allah refers to in the qur'an is as regard sharing of time and provisions. So for a man who has two wives with different number of kids. The injunction is to treat the women equally if Mrs A gets 50% of X, the Mrs B should get the same. The children are his responsibility and should determine what they needed separately. He should apportion what they needed and hand them over to their mothers but he should make it clear that those are for the children. Our level of sincerity would determine our level of success.

I tell you a small story. I have one family friend who should be around 70 years by now. He left Islam about 44 years ago hating everything about Islam. He believed that his father marrying four wives and having over 40 children was why he had to struggle for his education alone. He succeeded in traveling to England to further his education around 1970 where he met his wife of today. Now they have had 5 children and the least of them today is a graduate but despite monogamy and conserving his resources he has not rivaled 1/3 of his father's success in terms of wealth. Even it is that same property despite their achievement that they fights and bickers over today.
Where i am going is, his own five children have now settled in different part of the country and he is most of the time alone at home because his wife is either in Lagos or Abuja helping to take care of the children. So because of this loneliness he laments a lot that had he known he would have marry two wives but I reminded him that how would he do so as a Christian but he retorted that Christianity does not shun polygamy but it is people interpretation. I am trying to be brief because of space constraint. Our former justice minister and one time governor of Oyo state, a Christian and a professed monogamist had children by two other women outside the marriage. Justice Atinuke ige was shell shocked to see the women during his burial. So olawalebabs we learn from the mistake of others.
Allah increases provisions of his servants depending on how they are willing to take up responsibilities and share with the needies. Allah is generous and he wants us to exemplify this. So long.

[quote author=deols]

I disagree that it is tantamount to disbelief. You seem to not want to get my point. this is how some pple become khawaarij by calling others kaafir and start causing confusion.

You seem to get easily angry, please don't be angry if you misunderstand my missive . I am only advising caution and I don't think it has gotten to the state of name calling nor labeling.
I still repeat we could be critical of those who practice what Allah has ordained poorly but we should avoid aversion to Allah's injunction because He the knower and the aware is not unmindful of what we say or do.

As for the criteria I believed some people had earlier on state the quality they wanted in men but the prophet (saw) says a woman is married on the account of four things : beauty, wealth, lineage and religion and he recommended we should marry on account of religion and good family disposition. A woman can also marry using this criteria. Beauty and wealth can fade with time as Allah wills but other qualities would endure.

Now back to the choice of type of Man or woman, you can choose and have selection criteria but do not discountenance the advice of the Prophet as regard selection criteria.

Experience has shown that most women around 30 years and above have had to trimmed down their long selection criteria they had at let say age of 24years. A man could still be choosy at around age 35years but not so women. Above all we should have faith in Allah and consult him when presented with choice between two things. ( apology to everybody for any repetition since I have not really followed the thread from the beginning )

deols: ^^I get ur point. But is that to scare us from continuing to dislike the institute of polygamy?
I beg ur pardon, not every1 is like that sister. Not every1 goes for whatever is available. Many people have standards. and they either get them or nothing at all.

SO it doesnt really matter what happened to that sister. Preach what you think is right and leave pple to decide what they think is best for them.

Noooo! It is not to scare anybody but for us to exercise caution because it is tantamount to disbelief for a Muslim to go against what is in the qur'an. You could keep your faith intact while praying for the best possible outcome?
I think if we really care about one another as a true Muslim should then the right of a Neighbour as defined in islam mandated us to advice ourselves and encourage ourselves on every situation.

Yes not everybody is like that sister, that is true but who is going to tell us that we are different if not the owner of existence Himself. He use to speak to Mankind via qur'an and other means when the prophets were in the world But the door through prophecy is closed till the day of resurrection. Yes we could fashion any standard for ourselves but who defines those standard if not the creator and the fashioner himself. The west as of today have their standard when it comes to marital institution but are they winning, divorce is at the highest and people are scared from marriage. Many women whom out of setting a different standard for themselves have becomes Jesus women (given up on men and are waiting for jesus ) and those who are not are roaming the street waiting in ambush for those men who claim they are monogamist. The French surgeon who won Nobel price in 1976 says a monogamist is he who claim he eats once a day but in between meals he visits different snacks shops to make up.

So my sister Allah was not joking in the qur'an when he says ' This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islām as your religion'

I hope I would be able to share the pain of an old family friend who is a baptist Christian about the so much hated polygamy. Have a nice day.

May I chip in few words which I think could be useful.

Yes if we consider how so many things are done or practiced not minding the laid down how then one would not have any courage to even do anything at all. Those whom we sees as example of poor polygyny practice are but mortals and nobody is perfect but everybody would be rewarded according to how we strive in the cause of Allah. Everything we do and do with ultimate aim of pleasing Allah would be counted as worship.
I wish to offer a little advice to those who don't have a not too positive reservation for what Allah azawajalla has legislated in the qur'an. This especially is to our sisters, please try and maintain positive disposition to everything Islam has legislated because afterall we do not know what Allah has decreed for us in life. You could pray to allah to make wherever you will find yourself an abode of safety where you would find happiness, contentment of heart and above all earned the pleasure of Allah which is the ultimate goal.
There was a story of a sister who used to scorn fellow Muslims when anything about polygyny is discussed when she was single but guess what? She lost her husband few years into the marriage and Allah turned it to be a trial for her. I learn't that she was eventually begging brothers if they could assist her to get a home where she could even to be fourth wife.
So Allah is not unmindful of what we say, do or conceive in our heart and would call us to account for them one day. Have a nice day

maclatunji:

Wa Alaykum Salam. You are welcome.

Thanks

As-salaam alaykum oh brothers and sisters, As a new member in this section I am happy to introduce myself. Hopefully I may contribute one or two things in the future.

otipoju:
Waiting for proof that the man Jesus is a fictitious character,a figment of someone's imagination is an exercise because it won't happen." Fictional" ? That's a bit outlandish ooo. Don't forget that the aim of the gospel writers was not to present a chronological account of Jesus life,(whom they met as adults anyway) but to present the good news of salvation as they felt directed by God's Spirit. Something drastic must have happened to make a bunch of timid deserters and very confused ordinary men and women who had run for cover for days on end leave their hiding place to face their persucutors, preach bravely and die fearlessly smiling and praying to God to absolve them of guilt. It is that life changing experience with the Holy Spirit thatis the attraction and unique selling point for christianity all these centuries. Halleluyah ooo.

Now I think people are just getting unnecessarily worked up. It is a historical fact that jesus(PBUH) once sojourned in this world and did what the 'Father' sent him to do. The issue the pope raised in his book is about doing away with embellishment which if the pope and those who know a lot about Christianity try and summon courage to remove from present Christian creed would render it purer than what is currently practiced the world over. We only have just this our live/existence if we don't get it right then we are doomed. Salvation shouldn't be issue of 'I belief' alone which sometimes is a program fashioned by our so called leaders to program us to believe some certain things and discriminate against certain things. We should remember that even when Jesus was in the world he still encourage the people to seek the truth and it shall set them free.

The pope is surely right but I think the Vatican has more truth and discoveries in their vaults more than they are willing to reveal. That is just a grain out of a bag of salt of covered truth about Christianity.