GothamCities:


End of story.

Jesus is not God.

englishmart:
Am I supposed to keep going through this circle of baseless, deflective questions? What have you made of the first answer I gave you to deserve another answer?

it has base, for one you do realize that it refers to where Jesus is from and my question is for you to also realize that Nazareth was in Galilee where Isaiah wrote a prophecy of a great light coming out from that region, one who would deliver Israel
Isa.9.1-2 - Nevertheless, that time of darkness and despair will not go on forever. The land of Zebulun and Naphtali will soon be humbled, but there will be a time in the future when Galilee of the Gentiles, which lies along the road that runs between the Jordan and the sea, will be filled with glory. The people who walk in darkness will see a great light--a light that will shine on all who live in the land where death casts its shadow.

Jesus a light that overcomes death

englishmart:
And I did respond.

this was your response to the person
"If someone references something from a book you wrote, it is expected I find the the referenced when I read your book. It's that simple."

How is that a response to asking you who a Nazarene is

AbuTwins:
I see no reason hiding what you know. If you know it then you should write it.


Matthew was trying to link Jesus to Abraham and Davidic line of Prophets. The evidence of this can be found in the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew 1:1-17. It started from Abraham to David...

Anyone who can write can be a scribe. And if he truly was a tax collector then being a scribe may not be far from him. To quote prophecies then you must have read it or heard it from somewhere!

what are you talking about, knowing and writing?

Anyway, Matthew wasn't trying to link Jesus to David and Abraham line of prophets, when you say line of prophets it's like the children of David he wrote were prophets as well, but that's not so.


Go and research before you make a comment that anyone could become a scribe, that was 2000yrs ago not 2025.

Some of you will just come and straight up attack someone else, you don't really know the spirit that is at work within you guys o

AbuTwins:
The Prophecy in Matthew 2:23 has no proof from all the accepted books of the old testament!
So it can be that:
1. Matthew made a honest mistake.
2. Matthew deliberately lied to link Jesus with the former Prophetic expectation.
3. Matthew was quoting a scripture not included in the Bible today which he had access to.

In John 1:19-21,
And this was John’s testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him, “Who are you?” He did not refuse to confess, but openly declared, “I am not the Christ.” “Then who are you?” they inquired. “Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.”“Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.”

So it was claimed the Jews were expecting three different Prophets, 1. Christ 2. Elijah and 3. The Prophet!

lol it's clear John wasn't interested in telling them who he was but revealing the Messiah

Anyway it may have been a mistake but was it?
Secondly what prophecy was Matthew trying to link Jesus to with such claim. And your number 3 is possible as well, but unlikely, he wasn't some scribe though it may have been something taught at the time anyway.

It is clear they kept the title Jesus Christ of Nazareth that they were even called the Nazarenes somewhere in the book of Acts

englishmart:
Let's not deflect. I still don't see why someone would quote a prophecy that doesn't exist. Quoting something is different from narrating a story. You quote in verbatim. Even our illiterate grandparents, whenever they quote from the bible, their quotes are correct. This was something that subconsciously stuck in their hearts. Didn't Matthew attend bible studies then? 😅😅 Or just anybody woke up without some level of eductation, or knowledge of a matter undertakes the role of writing a story as powerful as the life, death and resurrection of jesus. If I'mto go by your logic, it is therefore fair to read the book of Matthew with incredulity, since the writer was an ultracrepidarian, illierate, misfiring fellow.

if you don't see the reason then how are you so sure it's a lie.

Well did Matthew quote anybody in particular in what he wrote?

englishmart:
A Nazarene is an indigene of Nazareth. And that verse was speaking about Nazarene in the context of a citizen

okay, if that is the case, by the way where is Nazareth, in which city or region was it in?

englishmart:
I did my research very well. 😅

okay then share your research and prove that supports your topic, that Matthew lied.

Someone asked you if you knew what being a Nazarene means, so you can as well start from there

englishmart:
I didn't tell you he wrote it. I was only demanding to know how whoever wrote it got wind of those stories. Including his private stories

this is what you wrote, "Elijah did not write a book. Who then narrated all those stories about him?"

Well I may not understand English has much as you do but that there is said by someone who believes Elijah wrote it.

englishmart:
You are just escapistic. Give me the specific verse and stop being a slowpoke

I am guessing you have already tried using google before coming here with confidence that Matthew is a liar 😀😀

englishmart:
Where in zechariah does it say "he shall be called a Nazarene?
Elijah did not write a book. Who then narrated all those stories about him? Like when he ran from Ahab, lived in isolation and was fed by a raven, the widow of Zarephath, etc?

oh wait you thought Elijah was the one who wrote it?

Wait I thought you knew some of the authorship and writings of the scripture. Common now, did Jesus write the gospels even though their are descriptions of things he did?

englishmart:
How do you quote someone and not be verbatim? Now you're saying the the writer was illiterate. Does the Bible look like a book compiled by illiterates

compiled by or written by are two different things.

Well you may pride yourself as being an academic that never misquotes anyone, but Matthew is said to be tax collect let's not mention others who were fishermen, Matthew wasn't Paul, and based on some records about him, he wasn't fully, a born, brought up Jew, so he may have a poorer knowledge of scripture than say a Pharisee or a teacher of the law. Not like the Jews knew all of their scriptures anyway.

Now if you can't excuse that about a person then you shouldn't be accusing them of lying when you don't understand them. So it isn't about illiteracy but about your own ability to understand.

Imagine you trying to study the standards of a book writing 2,000yrs ago by the standards of today 😂👍

achu442:
it's not all books of the prophets that is in the Bible given to you by the white man.

There are hundreds of prophetic books and prophecies not put in the Bible you read.

there's that possibility because Matthew says, that the prophets say the Messiah will be called a Nazarene. For example Elijah didn't write a book, you can imagine all the things revealed to the prophets that were not written by told orally.

Now engishmart may say well something has important as Nazarene should have been recorded but it actually is recorded anyway but it is spelt with the words Nazareth.

But the phrase he shall be called **** or the one called ***** is actually there, in the book of Zechariah

englishmart:
If someone references something from a book you wrote, it is expected I find the the referenced when I read your book. It's that simple.

Matthew made certain references that weren't copied word for word, infact some of his references were based on his understanding of the scriptures. Now Matthew isn't writing a modern day academic book and you can't compare him with Paul in terms of making references.

This isn't the first time a believer was recorded in the new testament incorrectly mentioning something from scripture but what is incorrect is probably due to human error and memory not being perfect, which is understandable.


Now like he said, the term Nazarene may have a meaning in Hebrew that is mentioned in scripture that you missed.

Thankgod89:


You raise an important point. The phrase "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us" (Matthew 6:12) is part of the Lord's Prayer, which Jesus taught His disciples. At first glance, it may seem to conflict with the idea that believers should confess their sins rather than repeatedly ask for forgiveness. However, this statement can be understood in light of Christ's finished work on the cross.

When Jesus taught this prayer, it was before His crucifixion and the establishment of the new covenant through His blood. At that time, the full revelation of His once-for-all sacrifice (Hebrews 10:10-14) was not yet made clear. Jesus was teaching His disciples to acknowledge their sins, seek God’s mercy, and extend forgiveness to others, reflecting a heart of humility and grace.



For believers today, who live under the new covenant, Jesus' sacrifice has already secured full forgiveness for all sins—past, present, and future (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 2:13-14). This forgiveness is positional and permanent for those in Christ. However, confessing sins remains essential for maintaining close fellowship with God. Saying "forgive us our trespasses" is not asking for a new application of Christ’s forgiveness, as though His work were incomplete. Instead, it acknowledges a daily need for God’s grace, recognizes areas of failure, and expresses gratitude for the forgiveness already provided.

The second part of the prayer, "as we forgive those who trespass against us," reminds believers that extending forgiveness to others is a vital response to having received God’s grace. Jesus emphasizes in Matthew 6:14-15 that forgiving others reflects a true understanding of God's forgiveness. Refusing to forgive others reveals a heart that has not fully grasped the depth of grace received through Christ.

Praying "forgive us our trespasses" today is less about doubting our positional forgiveness and more about restoring daily fellowship with God. Believers can pray, "Father, I confess my sin and thank You for the forgiveness already provided through Jesus. Help me to walk in Your grace and forgive others as You have forgiven me."

This prayer teaches believers to live in humility, dependence, and gratitude for God’s mercy while extending the same grace to others. It is not about re-earning forgiveness but about staying aligned with God’s will and reflecting His character in our relationships.

"When Jesus taught this prayer, it was before His crucifixion and the establishment of the new covenant through His blood."
You know I heard this once as well, but this isn't true, the teachings of Jesus were not pre crucifixion and post crucifixion, there isn't a basis for such believe. Do we then say his commands change after he resurrected? No.

Jesus taught us a lot of things, including how to pray, if there be any change it would be mentioned by Jesus and it was, the change of having to use the name of Jesus in prayer.

When we speak about the finished work of Christ, we don't mean that Jesus has done all that God requires of him, but it pertains to the work of reconciliation and opening up the way to God, which like the book of Hebrews teaching was done once a year, regularly but Jesus didn't have to it regularly for he offered a more excellent offering and the way is open forever. And because the offering is once and eternal is continually speaks for us.

Take for instance the verse you quoted
Heb.10.14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. (NKJV)

Does that mean we are already perfect, no, it means we are being perfected through sanctification and that work of sanctification includes us confessing and separating us from sins. Now if we don't humble ourselves and seek God's forgiveness would we receive grace, would the grace which saves us be at work in our lives. Think of Paul who cries out to God and received grace from God. Does it mean he didn't believe in the finished work, no, it was because he believed in it that he cried out for mercy and grace.

The prayer Jesus taught us was based on the new covenant which was yet to be established, for it starts with Our Father, which we only become as we are reconciled and redeemed into God's family by the blood of Jesus.


Another thing which I had also heard, and you wrote as well, "For believers today, who live under the new covenant, Jesus' sacrifice has already secured full forgiveness for all sins—past, present, and future"


Through the blood of Jesus we receive forgiveness of sins by God's kindness, that's Ephesians 1:7 and then Col.2.13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ. He forgave all our sins.

Now this means that the death of Jesus was to deal with our nature, and the power of sin over us. And God forgave all our sins according to the law,

That's why Paul wrote in the next verse
Col.2.14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

Now you may ask, what are sins according to the laws of Moses, well they were what made the regulations needed, the sacrifices of blood and the many offerings but the blood of Jesus put an end to that. That's why the law is fulfilled but yet we are to obey the commandments of God, the 10, which are grouped into love God and love you neighbors.

That's why our sins which John says we should ask for forgiveness for are the same with when Jesus taught if you brother offends you, tell him, take others, tell the church and if he repents forgive. So when we forgive others, God will forgive us as well. This sins are based on relationships. And we maintain them by seeking forgiveness not assuming that we are already forgiven.

So indeed our sins, according to the laws of Moses which will bring accusations against us, have been dwelt with and we are purified by the blood of Jesus that doesn't dry up and it paves way for us to go to the Father to obtain mercy when we fall or make mistakes.

There is an assurance for forgiveness not a certificate of exemption that no matter what a person does they are already forgiven.

Let's look at a practical example, Jesus had died and resurrected but still He visited Peter and asked him three times do you love me.

Jesus sent letters to the churches and some of them he told to repent, while they could still repent. Now if forgiveness was once and for all, or automatically, there would not be a need for acknowledging their faults and repenting.

Or you may well say, we don't have issues with God anymore but what about Jesus whom we have to obey. This by the way.

I have no issues with the prayer, "Father, I confess my sin and thank You for the forgiveness already provided through Jesus. Help me to walk in Your grace and forgive others as You have forgiven me."

Nor that we shouldn't doubt the finished work of Christ but that we should at least understand the finished work and not assume what it is or exaggerate it, and remove what is required of us to do, like carrying our cross and following Jesus. Just a side example.
So saying God should forgive us doesn't mean we doubt that God has forgiven us, but because we believe God has forgiven us for the sins of our fathers, for the sins of Adam, for the sins we are guilty of by the laws of Moses, that we believe He will forgive us when we fall and make mistakes.

Look forgiveness isn't cheap and that's the truth, we have to be responsible and their are consequences for some of our actions, and this doesn't mean God doesn't forgive us, it is just that God is faithful and just even to those we may have offended as well. So confessing our sins isn't just about mentioning them but also about making amends and when we ask God to forgive us it is usually when we hurt and fail others, maybe you didn't speak to that person when you should and they got into trouble or they died. Or you lied or took what wasn't yours and didn't return it on time.

We are not re-earning forgiveness for past records, but for our daily lives, His mercies are new every morning. But they are not free, they are kept and are to be obtained.

If one confesses without seeking forgiveness what then is the purpose of the confess, is there humility when a person says O i did something wrong but i know you have forgiven.. that is presumptions.

I tell you, presumptions.... why did Paul fast after he encountered Jesus, do you think they fasted and sought God's mercy at times, it is to find help and strength to do what is right, it is for God to continue to work with us.

If sin becomes iniquity in us, and we become workers of Iniquity even though we shout and confess Lord lord, we will be denied.

We show that we respect and love God when we apologize for our wrongs, like a servant to his forgiving master.

FreeSpirited:

.
I never even read your post at all before I posted mine because I was angry...
Almost every self acclaimed born again Christian come to religion section to confuse themselves that Jesus is Yahweh....and I hardly comment or read such post cos I know where the confusion really starts from....
.
.John 1
Isaiah..... Unto us a child is born
And Revelation....THE Alpha and Omega verse


Immediately I saw your post, I thought it was by those people yet again, that was why I angrily typed my first comment without even reading.....
.
After skimming through the first few paragraphs....I now realized u are trying to established that Jesus is different from Yahweh....
.
I don't understand how people miss that glaring truth....it's sad
Tr Almighty God has said on different occasions from the scriptures that his name Yahweh....
Nigeria always want to say Jesus is same as Yahweh?...How?......

it's okay that you are angry at what is a lie, but you have to understand that this is a war, a war from Jesus to save and from the devil to lie distort and destroy.

If knowing the truth is a condition for the truth, Jesus to set us free, doesn't that mean believing a lie keeps many in bondage, for people perish for lack of knowledge of the truth, of God.

Those who believe in the son of God shall have everlasting life, but what if people believe in a lie, don't they get duped.

I am angry but I also am sad, very sad

Tell those who are rich in this world not to be proud and not to trust in their money, which will soon be gone. But their trust should be in the living God, who richly gives us all we need for our enjoyment.
Tell them to use their money to do good. They should be rich in good works and should give generously to those in need, always being ready to share with others whatever God has given them.
By doing this they will be storing up their treasure as a good foundation for the millennium reign so that they may take hold of real life- eternal life.


Timothy, guard what God has entrusted to you. Avoid godless, foolish discussions with those who oppose you with their so-called knowledge. Some people have wandered from the faith by following such foolishness.



May God's grace be with you all.

But godliness with contentment is great gain.

So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content.
But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction.
For the love of money is at the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows.

Some false teachers may deny these things, but these are the sound, wholesome teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, and they are the foundation for a godly life.
Anyone who teaches anything different is both conceited and ignorant. Such a person has an unhealthy desire to quibble over the meaning of words. This stirs up arguments ending in jealousy, fighting, slander, and evil suspicions.
These people always cause trouble. Their minds are corrupt, and they don't tell the truth.

To them religion is just a way to get rich. From such ministers and people withdraw

There is only one God, the most high YHVH the Almighty, creator of ALL.

Asking God for forgiveness is because we make mistakes, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us

Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy.

If the basis of our receiving mercy and forgiveness is that we too are required to be merciful and forgiving it means there isn't an expectation from God that we will be perfect in our flesh. That's why Jesus said forgive your brethren 70x7.

Ps.32.5 Finally, I confessed all my sins to you and stopped trying to hide them. I said to myself, "I will confess my rebellion to the LORD." And you forgave me! All my guilt is gone.

Confession is need for there to be forgiveness, so we confess for the purpose of asking for forgiveness

1John.1.9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from every wrong.

It's oh Father I have done something wrong, please forgive me. Why would one be afraid of not being forgiven if they believe God is faithful and just to forgive us. We approach God with our sins from the confidence we get through Jesus that He will forgive us as we admit them and seek his grace to turn away from them.

Rom.8.1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,...

Condemnation is for those who reject God's love and mercy, and not for those who believe, repent and follow Jesus

John.3.18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1John.3.20 even if our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

Our hearts can condemn us when we do something wrong, but that is guilt and not God's condemnation. Our hearts and conscience judges us that you have done something wrong and it's a gift to us to humble us and make us go before God's throne to obtain mercy. It's a gift to us to help us make peace and make amends.

A person who doesn't feel guilty when they have done wrong is probably justifying themselves and that's dangerous and I know at times through wrong teachings people feel guilty for not doing what men want, and the devil manipulates and make many continually feel guilty and keeps them under a bondage of guilt.

That's why John said, even if your heart condemns you, God is greater than your heart and there is no condemnation for those who sincerely repent, make amends and desire to do what is.

Yes it's new forgiveness for His mercies are new every morning. Jesus has paved the way for us to obtain it, our hearts have been cleansed and made new but our minds need to be renewed and our actions will be filled with mistakes not resulting from our hearts but from our flesh dying on the cross fighting the spirit of God within us.

Righteousness is through our faith in the blood of Jesus which is us obeying and doing what God expects of us. So righteousness are the works of God we do, to love, to care, to rejoice and be at peace, to endure, to be kind, to give and be good, to be faithful and honest, to be humble and have self control all these are the works of the spirit of God in us and not works of the flesh not works of sacrifices and religion.

God forgives us and cleanses us, and seeking forgiveness is receiving that reassurance that God forgives us. God will punish us and correct us but He won't reject His children who turn to Him.

When you believe the wrong things you will do the wrong things

It's another day to begin with Jesus

GothamCities:

My dear who is that person who comes from everlasting, with no beginning, other than God?

God is everlasting

GothamCities:


Only the liars will say more doubts are raised.

Can you show me from that scripture in Micah 5:2 that Jesus is not from Everlasting? You guys are antichrists.

you are a liar for raising those doubts and saying all doubts are cleared, that's deception.

because Jesus comes from everlasting you concluded that Jesus is God, therefore there are no more doubts. That's the dubious statement of a halfbaked salesman that wants to rip people off.

Janosky:


False claim you made,I tell you for free.

Apostle James did not announce anything to anyone, please don't deceive yourself.

You can read KJV Bible on the JW's website,so your claim is FALSE.

The English monarch, King James authorized the mass production of the KJV Bible into the English language some years past after the execution of Bible translator, William Tyndale (accused of heresy by the Church for attempting to translate the bible from latin to English).
KJV is also called Authorized Version because the British monarchy approved it's mass production.
BTW, KJV is NOT, NEVER the oldest Bible in English language.
The Geneva Bible & Wycliffe Bible are older than the KJV.



Oga, please go and study secular history & learn more.

tell daddycoool don't tell me.

It's called sarcasm.

DaddyCoool:


That's the one everyone defers to when there is disagreement among other versions, and it wasn't produced by a vested interest

you saying what you dont know is not new here, because how do you "it wasn't produced by a vested interest"

DaddyCoool:


I thought you said you are NOT JW?
This is the authoritative King James Version below

the official bible announced from heaven by the very anointed apostle James who won souls and saved millions of sinners, the other versions are all fake. Only KJV, everyone that rejects it must be JW

Janosky:


The point espoused by John 1:3 , Paul has explained it @ Hebrew 1:2, God Yahweh "created the world through Jesus His son".

I told my Engineer," Let us build a mansion."

I gave him the dimensions and measurements to work with, thereafter work begins.

The Owner of the mansion built edifice through his Engineer.
The Engineer (Jesus Christ) can not claim ownership (or Creator) because:
1. The idea to Create is not from Jesus initiative.

2. Jesus was working according to instructions given by God His Father/Creator.

The Greek word dia (meaning Instrumentality/Agency is @ John 1:3, Hebrew 1:2, Colossians 1:16,1 Cor 8:6.

daddycoool is a typical lying nigerian politician that only sees what they want and not what is true, so showing her or him dia is meaningless. Because not once have they admitted their goof on this thread

DarkJeddi:
Ogbeni..

Being religious is you believing certain assumptions and sticking to it no matter the contrary evidence..

That is the very concept of religion..

You believed some man was born by a virgin and his birth is the salvation of all mankind,from some sin committed by two white folks in some phantom garden..

No matter how grandiose the claim,as long as it's in your little book holy book it's the truth.

And so,god knows my heart?

He knows my beginning and my end?

He already knows whether I'm ending up in hell or heaven,right?

But he would still rather play hide and seek with my soul,despite knowing how it's all going to end?

You see how sensible you religious lot sounds?

I see you are angry, you hate it, it doesn't matter what anybody says.

Which evidence have you brought, you were called out for your obviously assumptions but instead admitting simple truths you want to face complex ones.

If you can't be honest with yourself then stop your nonsense.

Leave religious people alone, leave God alone and rid of your anger and hate yourself, help yourself, give yourself peace. Be more sensible than they are.

How is this your reaction sensible to what my previous response to you.

Oh yes religious people are bad but what about you, you are perfect, you are better, you are not patheticly trying to rationalize your own belief and condemn theirs.

Instead of disproving what you read with the truth which isn't from a book, or there is no truth in you. They told you they get truth from a book and you believed did you ever read the book and read this book is the truth?

The truth is from a person, someone trustworthy.

Okay God doesn't know your heart, He doesn't even know your end. But do you know your own heart can you even admit it honestly?

Oh God knows your end but He is playing hide and seek with you, did you ever seek for Him, did you ever truly want to find Him.

If you want God cry out to Him, whether you go to hell or heaven why should that bother you, why not try and find out if God is real or not.

Why not declare that you sought for God and He didn't answer but know that if you lie, you will never find Him till after your death.

If you are ready to find God then seek Him with all your heart but if you can't even do that, then stop being angry at those who do.

DaddyCoool:


See stupidity. I'm sure you can read: "BY HIM!!"
Your hammer didn't make anything!
John 1:3 - ALL things were made BY Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made
So obviously he himself was NOT made. Also, your hammer is not your son. This is God's "son"! But God doesn't go about having sons. Therefore this must have been part of God, God himself!

If you believe Jesus was the one who created the world that's your business, you have been a deaf mule since the beginning only repeating what is in your own head irrespective of what any other person says.

John.1.3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.