Are you a single man of marrying age, but despair at the paucity of eligible virgins to marry? Or are you a woman virgin looking for marriage but despair at the high divorce rates in the society? Well, despair no longer. For God foresaw your situation thousands of years ago and prescribed a solution for such a problem in His Holy book, the bible. Turn your bibles to Deut 22: 28,

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.



Now to guarantee that this method would work for you, you have to arrange for the following:

1) Your prospective wife, who is a virgin, is not already engage to someone else. It does not matter whether she like/loves you.

2) That the raping of your prospective wife is discovered

3) That you have fifty shekels of silver to pay your prospective father-in-law.


That is the foolproof recipe for marrying a virgin of your choice whether she like it or not. One of the other advantages of this approach is that it would cut down on the high divorce rates we see in today's society. In fact, the Christian divorce rates (circa 30%) is much higher than other groups and failure to follow this biblical guidelines maybe partly responsible for such a high divorce rate. So, I have got this message for the Christian virgin looking for a long term marriage without divorce in the biblical way:

If you find yourself being raped by a Christian brother (or anyone for that matter) do not resist the rape. Shout as loud as you can to raise an alert, then introduce the rapist to your father. At which point your father will do all the rest for your beautiful and loving marriage.

This is really GREAT news. May more catholic priest behave like this. Great News.

Listen to a recent Dan Dennett lecture here .

What do you do when you have satanic dreams? How do you know they are satanic in the first place? Can satanic dreams negate God's Will and Word?

mntpaul:

Funny how you did not answer my question about how humans come to have spirits! Can you give that another go?

Answer to your question: All humans have spirits, that is my belief and my belief is my reality.

On the issue of prayers, how do you know it was your prayers that eventually occasioned the results you desired. Could the results not have happened without prayers? There are millions of people who go about their daily lives without a prayer and yet they achieve great results in their careers, family, health, etc, etc. How do you explain that?

Answer: First part. My prayers are answered, because they were explicate, and also I have faith, faith is believing. I do not know about the others of millions of people. I only know what I believe.

Do me a little favour and put your prayer again to the test by doing the following:

Put an empty class in front of you and put a piece of cardboard (or lid) over its rim. Then go down on your knees and pray, asking God that he fills the glass up with pure drinking water within the hour. Then come back here and report the results.

I shall do the same here and will report back the results as well.

Looking forward to your results (and mine)

Answer: Why would I challenge my faith with your test. Who are you to test my belief? I already know what I believe in. What kind of society do you come from. I am from the USA. you have a right to believe what ever you want. I don't go on my knees to pray; who are you to tell me how to pray? What kind of person are you? Where do you come from?

What were the results of you taking your test? Did it change your current belief? Or is your belief still the same?

What a shame you did not pray to Jesus to fill your glass. Jesus just did that to me. And if he could do that for a non-believer I am sure he can do the same for you.

Bastage:

@Huxley

Yes. As I'm aware of what constitutes an immoral act, it wouldn't be imperative for another human being to be present.

But let me expand on that question. Say you were born on that island and that you never had any contact with another human being at all (your mother disappeared and you miraculously survived). Would you naturally create your own system of morality? Would you still be capable of committing an act of immorality?

@mazaje.

The actual system of morality may have involved trial and error as it evolved, but there must have been a time when one of those cavemen realised that "This specific act is immoral", right?

You seem to think that morality evolved exclusive to survival. Where therefore does the concept of altruism come in?: ie Sacrifice and Charity.

I contend that if you were born on the island and have no knowledge of a world outside of the island, and you are the only human inhabitant of the island, then there is nothing you could do on the island that you could considered immoral, at least initially.

However, it is concievable that you could develop some sense of the undesirability of the notion of pain and that other living things experience pain.  To that effect, you could put some some of restraints on you actions towards other living things that share the island with you. Put these, you will have to discover for yourself.  They will not be given to you on a plate.

It is nothing but a Miracle from Jesus.   I decide to pray to Jesus today to ask him to fill and empty glass with clean water and about one hour later and some fervent prayers Jesus did just that - filled my empty glass with water.   This is what I did.  Also see here.

I put an empty pint glass on my desk and I put a piece of cardboard over its brim.  I then proceeded to say some words of praise and prayer to the Lord Jesus, clutching a copy of my bible in my hands.  I prayed for about one hour, interrupting my prayers occasionally to check the glass and to read some post, but surely going back to praying to the Lord.  I prayed really hard, in the manner of Elijah.  You remember how Elijah put God (Jesus) to the test when he prayed hard and set fire to some pile of wood, proving that his God was the real god (1 Kings 18:30-39) .  Yes, I prayed as hard as Elijah and to my delight my glass was filled with clean water.

I wish I had videoed this.  This would have been great evidence that Jesus is alive and real.  Who else could have filled the glass but Jesus?   Praise be to Jesus for He is real.

Amen.

huxley:

Funny how you did not answer my question about how humans come to have spirits! Can you give that another go?

On the issue of prayers, how do you know it was your prayers that eventually occasioned the results you desired. Could the results not have happened without prayers? There are millions of people who go about their daily lives without a prayer and yet they achieve great results in their careers, family, health, etc, etc. How do you explain that?



Do me a little favour and put your prayer again to the test by doing the following:

Put an empty class in front of you and put a piece of cardboard (or lid) over its rim. Then go down on your knees and pray, asking God that he fills the glass up with pure drinking water within the hour. Then come back here and report the results.

I shall do the same here and will report back the results as well.

Looking forward to your results (and mine)

[size=18pt]Woow, Woow, Woow! It is a miracle. My God, It is a miracle.[/size]


I prayed fervently, in the manner of Elijah, stopping occasionally to check the glass and to read a few postings, and going back to praying. I prayed hard in the name of Jesus, pleading for HIM to fill the empty glass with clean water.

And it has happened. Jesus filled my empty glass with clean water. Hoooh, Hoooh, it is a miracle. Jesus has done a miracle for me. Wow Jesus must be real and alive now.

It is a miracle. Jesus filled my empty glass with water.

Bastage,

Imagine you were stranded on a desert island with no human beings but animals for company. Imagine also that there is nothing you could do that would have any repercusions outside of the island and that you could not contact anyone outside the island.

Is there anything you could do in the island that would/could be considered immoral?

mntpaul:

spiritual evidence or worldly evidence? Huxley, your so black and white with your question, I wonder if your a mathematician or scientist.

I like your question, because everyones faith or belief should be tested from time to time. If people are religious, which I am not saying I am. We all should be able to answer your questions. People should be able to state why they believe in something. If you know your willing to die for your belief, you should know what your dieing for. I challenge everyone here to give their answer to your question.

For me. My own personal and private evidence is that when I pray, what I prayed for happened or came true. There has been nothing that has never been unanswered.

Other evidence is the bible. Not everyone believes in the bible, but I do believe Christ existed. I think most historians agree. If the bible is a documented history book of the miracles of Christ. I am relying on the testimony of the witnesses of Christ. Correct me if I am wrong, even the
Quran, believes Christ existed, and was miraculous. I think even the Jews believe Christ existed. I am unsure of Budism or other religions.

There is another sense that spirited people have that worldly people may or may not understand. Its called faith. It is believing something is without using the 5 senses. Maybe you just know or believe that your mother loves you. How do you know? You just do.

Funny how you did not answer my question about how humans come to have spirits! Can you give that another go?

On the issue of prayers, how do you know it was your prayers that eventually occasioned the results you desired. Could the results not have happened without prayers? There are millions of people who go about their daily lives without a prayer and yet they achieve great results in their careers, family, health, etc, etc. How do you explain that?



Do me a little favour and put your prayer again to the test by doing the following:

Put an empty class in front of you and put a piece of cardboard (or lid) over its rim. Then go down on your knees and pray, asking God that he fills the glass up with pure drinking water within the hour. Then come back here and report the results.

I shall do the same here and will report back the results as well.

Looking forward to your results (and mine)

mntpaul:

@ Huxley in response to: Are you capable of thinking at all? If so, can you tell us WHY it is wrong? Can you justify your belief that it is wrong?

[b]Spiritual [/b]view that may apply to all religious societies and cultures:

1. Society values are programmed into our minds by a process of domestication from the start of our birth.
2. Our minds are the holders of the values of society including scriptural knowledge and religion.
3. Right and Wrong (values and beliefs) are determined by the our societal backgrounds and culture.
4. Society and culture will evolve itself with values to further it's survival or else they will become lost civilizations that no longer exist (extinction).
5. Most successful society based religions preach a message of love.
6. Prostitution does not support the message of Love. It supports the exploitation of someone else and is contrary to the message of Love.

Therefore, Prostitution must be wrong from a spiritual view point of a religion that supports love.

p.s. When you die the mind will shrivel and dry out to become dust, so will the memories and programming from society. Your spirit will live on. Learn to separate the worldly mind from the spirit. You will discover there is a whole different life on the other side of the portal, even as we reside on this earthly realm.

End of story

Can you provide evidence that there is such a thing as spirit within humans? When does a spirit infuse itself into the human being? Is it at birth? When exactly?

Abedoye is really after money, influence and "dominion" of the credible, gullible and brain-washed of the world. Luckily for him, there is a plentiful supply of such fools in Nigeria and that is why the church business is doin well there while the rest of the society wallows in squalor.

The very same people that he and his ilk have exploited and manipulated sit back and applaud the lavish life style of their manipulators. Can people be more foolish and gullible than this?

solosimple:

@Poster

No matter how strong and true you think your point is, learn a good way of communicating it and not judging that way
The man may be wrong in some things, but I think the way you talk about him is absolutely ungodly.

Though he might have some errors, but I still consider him as a man of God.
JUST BE CAREFUL BRO!

Is everyone who claims to be a man of god really a man of god?  If not, how do you know the real from the fake?

tonye-t:

@[size=18pt]HUXLEY,[/size],

the body inside which our soul lives is God's property, now how would you feel if someone uses your house to trade profit for themself?

@[size=18pt]BASTAGE[/size],

if God says prawn is bad, bastage prawn is bad, believce it or not, even science speaks against eating prawn, i can give you a full doc if you so wish to see

So whatever God mandates as bad must be bad, correct? What about these:

1) Exodus 21: 17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

2) Deut 22: 28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Should these commandments from God be obeyed?

mntpaul:

Sounds like your trying to rationalize the value of becoming a love-vendor?

Prostitution is wrong.

End of story.

Are you capable of thinking at all? If so, can you tell us WHY it is wrong? Can you justify your belief that it is wrong?

At Evolution Outreach here .

Some great material for learning about evolution at Evolution Outreach here: http://www.springerlink.com/content/120878/

An engineer, a doctor, a scholar, a lawyer - these professionals sell their services to their respective employers or clients and in return they get a monetary compensation for services rendered. Prostitutes also have a service to render for which they also get monetary compensation.

From this perspective, why is prostitution tabooed and maligned in most societies, particularly in societies that are predominantly religious?

mazaje:

Batage are you still claiming to be a christian?  i have never seen a christian that  vehemently denies the old testament god like you do. . . .i will agree with you that not all creeds of christianity are exactly the same. . . .but majority of christians believe in the original sin hypothesis. . .

He is not an orthodox Christian but a Marcionite

Bastage:

Would that be all?
How would it affect the relationship between you and the child?
Would you still be prepared to have him live under your roof if he continued preaching under it?

Of course, at some level it would affect my relationship with him. If it gets to the point where we have nothing in common to talk or care about such that they is little interest in us "hanging" out together. In fact, I like that now with some of my siblings. They have been reduced to such primitive superstitious drones, they cannot say a word without the word "god" in it. Apart from the fact that we are siblings, there is nothing else in common between us and we go for months without communicating.

As whether to allow him to continue living under my roof, it depends whether he is a minor or not. If he is still under my charge (less that about 18) then he is welcome to live under my roof. But he cannot use my property as the base for any activities I find objectionable, just as he cannot use it for fraudulent and criminal activities. If he want to stay in his room and read his superstitious books without disturbing the peace of the home with "preaching" then he is welcome to.

Pastor AIO:

Huxley, I doubt you've written the above in order to help Christians find their way again.  

Absolutely!  It may well be that some Christian are not getting the blessings they desire because they have not been doing all the right things, one of which includes the washing of feet.  So if they were to introduce this practice into their Christian life, this may prove the ice-breaker.

Enigma:

This is interesting; it is also one of the reasons that long winded and tortuous attempts to justify tithing do not merit any real effort to debunk them; in fact most can be easily dismissed contemptuously.

As we keep referring to Deuteronomy 14: yes, the tithe, in the form of produce and livestock, was meant to be consumed by the tither himself --- sharing with widows, orphans etc.

The only reference concerning money was that if it was too difficult to carry the tithe (produce and livestock) to the designated place, the tither could convert it to money. Now here (repeated again!) is another conundrum for those who teach tithes today: if the tither converts the tithe to money, he was supposed to spend the money on whatsoever his heart desires, that is, whatsoever his heart desires ---- not necessarily anything spiritual but things for jolly jolly jollification (or "frivolity" including strong drink and then share those things with widows, orphans etc etc. What is the equivalent of that in today's tithing teaching and practise?

Don't you realise that revealing such eternal "truths" of scriptures is inimical to the wealth-mongering zeal of the pastors?  You should keep such inner mysteries of the bible to yourself.

Bastage:

A question, Huxley.

If your child suddenly turned to fundamentalist Christianity whilst he was living under your roof, preached it in your household and refused to reconsider, what would you do?

He can expect to get his views challenged every time he pronouces them.

Pastor AIO:

My own inside all of this is: Tithe is supposed to be food, not money and further more the awuf is supposed to be shared in the presence of the Lord. This small detail that is being overlooked is more pertinent than it is being given credit for, I think.

What do forum members think of the significance of the shared meal in religious worship? I'm not just talking about tithe now, but also about the Lord's supper which is one of the central rites of christianity but is funnily absent in most if not all of the pentecostal churches.

How can christians, who claim to be practicing christianity come together to fellowship without awuf? How? This is terrible corruption of christianity.

Good question! How about the washing of feet? In my days as a SDA, we (or the adults) used to wash the feet of their brothers and sisters every now and then in the church. Most Christians today have lost their way.

[size=18pt]When Leaving Jesus Means Losing Your Family

by Valerie Tarico, Ph.D
[/size]
Reposted from http://www.exminister.org/LosingFamily.html


Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,

but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and

the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother

in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

-Jesus, Matthew 10:34-36



When my Gen Y friend Michael confessed publicly that he couldn't believe any longer, it cost him a full ride scholarship and all of his friends but three. But that wasn't the worst of it. Michael had to make a choice: He could stay in his parents' home only if he refrained from "spiritual pornography," meaning any media that were critical of faith. He could stay there only if he kept his doubts muted and invisible. Michael said he couldn't do that and moved out. His mother said it would have been better had he died. His father banned Michael from seeing beloved younger siblings without supervision. (Apparently spiritual pornography can lead to spiritual pedophilia?) Loneliness and despair took him to the brink of suicide.



Michael is warm, funny, and fiercely smart. Today he is back in school at a secular university, going it alone, working his way toward becoming a brain scientist. But the choices he was forced to face and the rejection he experienced are matched in our society only for kids who confess that they are gay.



According to recent Pew data, sixteen percent of Americans say that they don't have a religious affiliation. Other surveys would suggest that most of these still believe in some kind of god, and many probably still identify in some way with Christian teachings. But the fact is, a sizeable number of us no longer ascribe to the faith(s) of our fathers. And for those whose fathers serve a jealous god, the price can be high.



From testimonials at places like exChristian.net; exMormon.org; Faithfreedom.org (leaving Islam) we know that Michael's despair and desperation were not unique. Many who lose religion muddle along in silent shame-wanting to believe, praying desperately for doubts to be removed, blaming themselves and fending off images of eternal torture before finally giving up the fight. Granted, some lucky few simply flip a bit, but others find themselves dragged reluctantly into an internal conflict takes years.



Most religions implant psychological safeguards against apostasy, little emotional bombs of fear, guilt, shame and self-loathing that get triggered by the mere act of questioning. In religious orthodoxy, doubt is the domain of fools. It is the consequence of having hardened your heart like Pharaoh or resenting God's power like Lucifer. Oh ye of little faith!



Now add to loss and self-loathing a crush of rejection by people who have loved you "unconditionally": friends, cousins, siblings, parents, or even a spouse. When I was a suicidal nineteen-year-old (still a believer), a woman I had looked up to for years, apologized for having counseled me as a Christian when in hindsight I clearly was not. But even now, despite my public apostasy, my family has never cut me off, nor I them. We walk a loving, if uncomfortable line with each other. Our compatibility depends on things not said as much as it depends on conversation, but the common ground is also real.



Not everyone is so lucky. Some families cannot get past revulsion and sense of betrayal they feel toward a member who has literally broken faith. Manifest examples of kindness, integrity, warmth, or generosity get reinterpreted. They were never real--or the person has changed utterly.



Some former believers, fragile in either their disbelief or their self-worth, can't stand to be in the relentless presence of even unspoken disapproval. Others try to reach out to family members and get turned away with harsh words or silent shunning. Still others face a barrage of re-conversion efforts at any family gathering.



A divorce can get initiated by either side. Either way, it is the renegade who is most likely to end up alone and symptomatic. Think about it: for a person who has already lost a god and consequently a core part of the self, to sever ties with family is an act of desperation or sheer self preservation.



Returning to my earlier comparison with gay kids coming out - we all know what the worst case scenarios look like. In major cities across the country, outreach programs offer a helping hand to homeless and often self-destructive gay teens, kids who have been given the boot by parents who think they might as well be dead. But who is offering support to kids or adults who lose their religion?



Even among my professional peers, psychologists, far too few understand the depth of harm that can be done to the psyche by fundamentalist religion - religion that subsumes the individual self to a cult self. The irony is that few mental health professionals are sympathetic to the claims of moral dogma. The practicing therapist is exposed daily to life's caprice: biochemical malfunctions, developmental vagaries, and rotten life circumstances. In contrast to a religious perspective, psychology seeks to understand material and historical roots of symptoms rather than making moral judgments. So the problem is not that the professional world view aligns with a dogmatic world view. It is just that, in the absence of dramatic evidence to the contrary, we are all taught to think of religion as harmless.



It's time to give up the illusion.



Valerie Tarico, Ph.D. http://www.valerietarico.com/

Jerry Coyne maintains a blog which is well worth checking every now and then.  Here it is .

And of course, the brilliant P Z Myers' blog Pharyngula .

Aloy,

You must not be a very good Christian then. Don't you know that it says in the Bible that women MUST submit to their husbands and that you MUST the the authority in the house. You woman appears not to be submissive if she can force you to walk away from your usual church. Has she gone mad?

I predict it will not be long before she wants to go to a different church, such is the merry-go-round in the Christian churches.

uplawal:

since no one wants to reply you i will, its a sin to masturbate, however,if you think you want to be sexually okay why don't you get a woman or a man and get married,or if u don't have one just descipline yourself and pray to God to find you a good person then you can get married so as to be sexually satisfied because if you masturbate you are most likely to release, which ofcourse you have committed fornication, also make sure you don't read books that makes you wanna masturbate or pornography

What if you are married and during your sexual act you masturbate each other, is that a sin too?

Image123:

@huxley
I must say I admire your study of God's word(the Holy Bible).I've seen people 'christians' who don't care to study the Word.keep up the good work,you know what,light will shine soon.You know some are so closed and downgrading but you even read Bible dictionaries,daily devotionals,magazines,christian websites,man thats challenging to many.As to your question about discrimination,though you mixed up the passage as it is not Leviticus16,you'll be sincere to acknowledge that all living things have standards.Like they say,'one man's food is another's poison',we all have tastes.The temperature,salinity,water resource etc that one living thing might enjoy might be disturbing to another living thing.What someone else might revel in,might be nauseating to you.You might feel convenient working with 'disabled' people but God wants the best people to do some specific things in His temple/house.And you can't really blame Him,Psalm 135v6 says Whatsoever the Lord pleased,that DID HE in heaven,and IN EARTH and 24v1 says the earth is the Lord's,and the fullness thereof.You need to create your own world if you can where things will be just in your own eyes,but in this universe,the Lord's will shall stand.And if He wants the best to serve Him,then so be it.
When you open up your own company and you're employing people,you can decide not to 'discriminate'.Allow all,illiterates,educated,disabled,fit,diseased,mad,wise et al to come and serve you even to the top level.They'll show you how just and impartial you are

Is this the basis on which you discriminate at your church? If not, can you tell me the basis on which your church discriminates?

Bastage:

Original sin is a Catholic thing.
Most non-Catholics don't believe in it - those that do adhere to it in some form, believe that Christ wiped the Sin away with his Crucifixion and Ressurection.

This is extraordinary. You are either deliberately dishonest or are just stack ignorant about the tenets of Christianity. Christianity is founded on the notion of Original Sin and the redemptive power of Jesus.

You must suffer from the most adject form of cognitive dissonance - on the one hand holding onto the some of the main essence of rationalism, but still unable to let go of the barbaric beliefs from desert-dwelling tribesmen from about 4000 years ago. Man straighten up.

rotimy:

Mr Huxley, you are reasoning here like a child! You want me to believe that the father is responsible because he is a deceitful and exploitative father? Come on, the guy in question is an adult and I am so sure that his daddy did not ask him to go and masturbate in a public park ! Keep his daddy away from the guy's moral failure.

If you read my post carefully, you would see that I was taking a swipe at his dad (you must know by now that I never pass up an oppurtunity to hammer on the pastors/clerics etc). Of course, the son is entire responsible for his acts, but the environment in which he lives might have had a role in not allowing him to lead a life in a more natural manner.

Bastage:

I find that a little insulting. Never once have I tried to shove Christianity down your throat or tried to defend the undefendable.

Why would you find that insulting? All I said was that there were many problems with your post, which I did not address for reasons of time. But I chose to address your claim that you care about the literature. Why would that be insulting? Nor have I accused you of attempting to shove Christianity down my throat.

You may not want to shove your despicably belief down my throat, that does not mean that others are not. We have Christians muscling into the public arena and trying to set the agenda of socio-political life along Christian lines. Remember the nightmare of the Bush administration in the US and their interfference with scientific research? Remember the Catholic interference in the contraception and AIDS prevention debate? Are these not people of your superstitious ilk trying to set the global agenda. What epistemic basis have they got for trying to put their dirty hands into public affairs?

Bastage:

Really? A couple of very dodgy prophesies? I think that if there really was a direct continuity, we'd see a helluva lot more than just a couple of sentences in the OT, don't you? Or are you going to run away from logic?

Are you really serious? I don't believe you have said this. Am I thought you were really knowledgeable about Christianity! You are just as ignorant as the vast majority of the faith-heads. Check this out:


We could cite many reasons for the Old Testament being God's Word, but the strongest argument comes from the Lord Jesus Himself. As God in human flesh, Jesus speaks with final authority. And His testimony regarding the Old Testament is loud and clear.

Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, "The Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as "the commandment of God" (Matthew 15:3) and as the "Word of God" (Matthew 15:6). He also indicated that it was indestructible: "Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:18). Notice that he mentions even the words and letters!

When dealing with the people of His day, whether it was with the disciples or religious rulers, Jesus constantly referred to the Old Testament: "Have you not read that which was spoken to you by God?" (Matthew 22:31); "Yea; and have you never read, 'Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babes thou hast prepared praise for thyself'?" (Matthew 21:16, citing Psalm 8:2); and "Have you not read what David did?" (Matthew 12:3). Examples could be multiplied to demonstrate that Jesus was conversant with the Old Testament and its content. He quoted from it often and He trusted it totally.

He confirmed many of the accounts in the Old Testament, such as the destruction of Sodom and the death of Lot's wife (Luke 17:29, 32), the murder of Abel by his brother Cain (Luke 11:51), the calling of Moses (Mark 12:26), the manna given in the wilderness (John 6:31-51), the judgment upon Tyre and Sidon (Matthew 1-1:21), and many others.

Not only did Jesus confirm the historicity of these accounts, He also authenticated some of the passages that are most disputed today. Many modern scholars do not believe that Moses wrote the first five books of the Old Testament, but Jesus did (see Matthew 19:8, 9; John 7:19; Mark 12:29-31).
Some modern scholars also assume the existence of more than one Isaiah, but Jesus believed in only one. In Luke 4:17-21, He cites Isaiah 61:1, 2 (the so-called second Isaiah or Deutero-Isaiah) while in Matthew 15:7-9 He refers to the first part of Isaiah's work (Isaiah 6:9) without the slightest hint of more than one author.

The account of Daniel is rejected today by many as actually coming from the pen of Daniel, but the Lord Jesus believed him to be a prophet (Matthew 24:15). The account of Adam and Eve often is ridiculed today as legend, but Jesus believed the story to be true (Matthew 19:1-6).

Likewise, the narrative of Noah and the great flood not only is authenticated by Jesus (Matthew 24:37), it also is used as an example of His second coming. Finally, the most unbelievable of all-the account of Jonah and the great fish-is used by Jesus as a sign of His resurrection (Matthew 12:39ff).

It almost seems as though Jesus was anticipating 20th century biblical criticism when He authenticated these accounts. The con-clusion is simple. If a person believes in Jesus Christ, he should be consistent and believe that the Old Testament and its accounts are correct. Many want to accept Jesus, but also want to reject a large portion of the Old Testament. This option is not available. Either Jesus knew what He was talking about or He did not. The evidence is clear that Jesus saw the Old Testament as being God's Word; His attitude toward it was nothing less than total trust.
Source: http://www.greatcom.org/resources/reasons_skeptics/ch_06/default.htm

Bastage:

Jesus was a Jew. Did you expect him to never refer back? The fact remains though, that he broke plenty of Jewish laws. Enough to distinguish himself as a thinker outside of the box.

You serious again? As far as I know, the gospel records only a couple ( I stand to be correct if you know better) of instances of Jesus breaking the Law, the Sabbath law. Even in this instance, it was a matter of needs-must, rather than a deliberate breaking of the law. Basically, although he broke this law because of circumstance he endorsed the spirit of the law.

The second instance was when he advovated liniency towards the woman caught in adultery (if we ignore that fact that this narrative is considered a fraud by most scholars)

Bastage:

To me, the "grand truth" as you call it is only relevant to myself. I have no wish to preach it to you.


So? It was the science of it's day.

It's all down to your own personal belief, Huxley. There is no "we" in this matter - only "I" when discussing this aspect of reality. That's part of the grand truth.


I've already answered. Take into account history, sociology and politics. If you read a newspaper, you don't swallow every story do you? You look at who owns the newspaper, how reliable it's sources are, what other newspapers are reporting on the same subject, etc.

This sentiment is nothing new. Christianity, to the sophisticated Christian elite, has been reduced to merely a matter of a "me"-religion - something to give them solace, a cultural and social identity. Nearly all so-called "sophisticated Christians repudiate nearly all the core tenets of Christianity - virgin birth, miracles, transsubstantiation, trinity, etc, etc. Some even go as far as deny the resurrection, and still call themselves Christians - see Bishop Spong, and Tom Hapur.