frosbel:

Indeed angels of GOD came in the form of MEN , which is different to being MEN in enduring substance.

No MAN has seen GOD, yes they have see his angels who always came in the name of Yahweh, but it was never Yahweh himself. The closest any MAN came to seeing Yahweh was Moses in Exodus 33:23.

An example when an angel came in the name of the Lord :

"Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him." - Exodus 23:20-21

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him ." - John 1:18

Can you not clearly see that no MAN has seen GOD ?

Let me show you some more evidence, though I doubt you respect the integrity of scriptures.

"But you may not look directly at my face, for no one may see me and live." - Exodus 33:20

or

"No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father." - John 6:46

or

"Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen." - 1 Timothy 6:16

Did the angel say he was God? Has any angel receive worship?

truthislight:

You have cleared nothing my friend.

that dude finished work on you guys trying to say holy spirit is a force. Its now physic right? He has cleared it maybe you should read his post again. He is the most sincere person here seeing him correcting folks that are on his side even agree to some extent with ijawkid. You guys are the one who can't seem to take the truth

ijawkid:

Why didn't Jesus tell satan to worship Him....remember worship here in this context does not just mean bow down or prostrate......worship in this context entails giving exclusive devotion to the one true God of which Jesus isn't ..............

If Jesus could not boldly tell satan that I am God and so worship must come to me then Jesus isn't God.......

Thank you my bro......

Even before Jesus was tempted I hope you know he was praying to his Father and worshipping the Father......

Jesus worshipped the Father which negates the Fact that he is the same with the Father....

>

But Jesus receive worship.
so who is Jesus? John 1:1 says he is God. Big G

frosbel:

Appears you are getting more confused :

Satan said :

"If you be the Son of God, cast yourself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning you: "

This clearly is referring to 2 separate people , i.e :

1. Jesus the Son of GOD
2. He ( GOD himself the Father.

If you miss this , no wonder you have missed the bigger picture, more like reading your bias into scripture as opposed to being a good student of the word.

Jesus was the one tempted... If I say jump your dad will cash you am trying to use your dad to deceive you and am not tempting your dad because he is not there. You are the one who is confused of who is being tempted.

frosbel:

So who was SATAN referring to when he said :

"He shall give his angels charge concerning you"

Who is the HE ?

So he was not tempting Jesus that was with him he was tempting God that he couldn't see not there... How is that?

I have been going through the post and I have to admit benalvino is good. Learnt alot from him.

frosbel:

I will leave Satan and his demons to educate you .

"Then the devil takes him up into the holy city, and sets him on a pinnacle of the temple, 6And said to him, If you be the Son of God, cast yourself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning you: .... 7[b]Jesus said[/b] to him, It is written again, You shall not tempt the Lord your God. - Matthew 4:5-7

"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" - Matthew 8:29

still haven't answered the question. Who is Jesus. Who is he before he came to earth? THE WORD BECAME FLESH.

frosbel:

O boy. All I know is John 1:14 no way to avoid that.

so who is Jesus?

O boy. All I know is John 1:1 no way to avoid that.

When frosbel ijawboy or truthlie or whatever prove that Jesus created him self and prove to me that the bible contradicts it self when it says God created everything then I will know they are correct... Ijaw boy even if you insert other things in your bible it makes no sense if the bible says Jesus created every other thing how come it says yahweh created all things?

ijawkid:

What you explained about Jesus being firstborn is half baked.....

I am explaining what firstborn means and how it all applies to Jesus.....

Ok now answer this straight....

Remember my aim here is to establish that Jesus had a beginning........

That is why I have been quoting multiple scriptures to show and define what firstborn means.......

This is where I'm heading at.:::

You gave an example of pharoahs firstborn right??.....

Is pharoahs firstborn not amongst pharoahs sons but the first of them all??.......

Isreal who ofcourse is Jacob has as his firstborn as REUBEN........how does that negate the fact that Jacob pre-existed before Reuben and begot reuben but reuben being the first of his children??..........

If Jesus is Gods firstborn son and the firstborn of all creation and also the beginning of the creation of GOD(please read genesis 49:3 to understand the words firstborn of and beginning of) why exempt Jesus from the created family??.......

I am including Jesus as part of the things / persons that were created by God but Jesus being the first of them all just as the firstborn of pharoah and Jacob are part of the group of engendered sons but they being the first.........you guys are exempting Jesus making him a co-equal with the GOD and Father who begot him.........

Oh boy you are not really explaining anything. You are trying to force meaning into it. You didn't answer how Jesus created him self including every single thing in even and earth. You know other did not exist. You should be asking new world translation what is it they are hiding. And did you try to use proverb to prove Jesus was created? Cause you will make your argument look more like joke

frosbel:

Very poor scholarship.

Show me where incarnate is used in the bible.

Let me educate you with a Lexicon on what Manifest means from the original language

phaneroó: to make visible, make clear
Original Word: φανερόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phaneroó
Phonetic Spelling: (fan-er-o'-o)
Short Definition: I make clear, visible, or manifest
Definition: I make clear (visible, manifest), make known.


This is very different to incarnate where a spirit being becomes embodied in the flesh , the stuff of Pagans.

the word is God the word became flesh..
God manifest in the flesh. You see how they go to together? You want more verse? Na WA to you o

frosbel:

What is the difference between Incarnate and Manifest ?

You see what am saying? Are you helping me or what?

Manifest incarnate how does it matter? What is your point? The thing is the bible said Jesus was incarnated before he got into mary's womb...

Bible say God manifest in the flesh which means bible is teaching Jesus is God.

frosbel:

Stay on point, as I have said repeatedly , sentiment is not allowed in this discussion, let us be objective and examine the facts.

no sentiment here am saying you make no point. God manifest in flesh you argued and at the end admit saying at the end he manifest in the flesh. If you will agree why argue in the first place? I mean why disagree then Analyse which at the end your result is what you are arguing against

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

You are running in circles now. Just like ijawboy

frosbel:

Read English again and stop being subjective.

The English translated the bible , so I am sure they knew what words to use for a careful representation of facts.

1 Tim 3:16

16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Compare it with John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

ijawkid: And why you guys are at it can one of you start explaining when it is said Jesus is the firstborn from the dead??.....

Did Jesus die??....was he ressurected??.....or did Jesus evade death and ressurection but was straight ahead appointed as firstborn from the dead??

Now you know that first born mean different thing right? Good I dont think am at anything you can't answer question you bringing more. Maybe Ben will answer again but till you answer all question you have been asked what is the point of you asking more?

frosbel:


God was manifest through his Son.

Let me take you on a small course in English , manifest means :

1. To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal:

Jesus was revealed to show , demonstrate or plainly reveal the Father , hence :

"Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?" - John 14:9

this is utterly ignorance you are displaying. Don't change the word of God it says God manifest in the flesh you have no argument.

ijawkid:

You just dey yap GBAm for corner.......

Get ready to answer questions of all kinds.....

Abeg try answer the ones on your table first

benalvino:

Frosbel... You showing so much ignorance here. If Mary born Jesus and that makes him the first born as a result of that... Which time machine you borrow am make him use travel go back in time vo create everything for heaven and earth? Jesus was a man... The bible says God manifest in flesh... By your logic you are saying a man created everything in heaven and earth? Guy think before you post. You cannot understand God as the bible says... I know you are trying

Another gbam. Frosbel am ashamed of your weak arguments you can do better.

benalvino:

Ijawtubo :p I would say yes he is above God if you are the one that created god. unfortunately God is not created... The bible simple said firstborn of all creation. You got no case just answer the question.

Gbam. Yes was God created? So your question has been flushed in the toilet

ijawkid:

Alvino knows where I'm heading at........he knows...and he knows that when we get to that junction he'd be wrong.......

I just want to sit back and watch the 2 of you define what Jesus being Gods Firstborn means..........

Dude your questions has been answered many times over and over but you failed to address the points he made how many firstborn does God have? Did God created David before he created the earth? The Jesus create him self? If he is created how can he create all things? Why is other in your bible? Why did they forget to add other in John 1:3 there are so many question but answer this ones and you will understand what firstborn means in that context.

ijawkid:

We know Jesus can't be born twice.....all we want to know is what Jesus being Gods firstborn means


Ben said Jesus being called firstborn means pre-eminence.....

Oya na...try applying it to Jesus being Gods firstborn and the firstborn of all creation.......

No what we want to know is how many firstborn does God have? If you answer that you might know the meaning of the term. Once again alvino is right

ijawkid:

And what does she mean by her firstborn??...........

From what alvino is saying firstborn have different meaning like flesh in bible. Context is the key. Jesus cannot be born twice.

@frosbel JESUS WAS PRAYED TO

Acts 7:59 "And they went on casting stones at Stephen as he made appeal and said: "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

ijawkid:

Lol.........and you are not even seeing the import of the scripture you're holding to....

That scripture says they would mourn as one mourns for a firstborn.....Jesus wasn't there firstborn ofcourse but that verse surely points to the kind of person Jesus was......

And o Yes Firstborn there has so much link with Jesus been the firstborn of all creation......

Firstborn na firstborn.....

And do you want to know from the scriptures that Jesus was called Yahwehs firstborn.....??.....

So what is your point. Am saying it is a description on how they will mourn how can you not grasp that simple thing? If I mourn for my last born like the way one will mourn for his firstborn does it make him my first born? Remove the tin foil hat dude

ijawkid:

And firstborn mentioned in that scripture does not strike a cord in your brain that it all links to Jesus??...........

Or you want to argue that Jesus isn't Gods first born??......

My brother you have no argument......

Kindly read john 19:37.....

Then am asking you is Jesus their first born? How do you know if some of them have children? And how do you link that statement to firstborn in terms of first born of all creation. The bible say they meaning the people and it didn't say Yahweh. You just they do olivertwist here. I go call you dbanj

@frosbel you sounding ignorant sometimes. You quote alvino as blasphemy he presented a verse and you didn't say anything. The koko is Jesus was even prayed to. That glory God said he will never share with anyone! Jesus had it.

ijawkid:


Before I correct you with a better rendering of that verse let us intelligently analyze the rendition u quoted from......

Does it make an oita of sense if people are looking upon the pierced person ME,but mourning for someone else altogether,HIM??....

The later part of that verse says and they shall mourn as one mourns for a firstborn son...

Is Yahweh the firstborn son??.....does the scripture not say that Jesus instead is the firstborn son of Yahweh??........

Now why don't we see this verse from another rendition...


Zechariah 12:10
Good News Translation (GNT)
10 “I will fill the descendants of David and
the other people of Jerusalem with the spirit
of mercy and the spirit of prayer. They will
look at the one whom they stabbed to death,
and they will mourn for him like those who
mourn for an only child. They will mourn
bitterly, like those who have lost their first-
born son.


Can you see consistency in this rendition??.......

So what you are saying is Jesus is their first born? Or it is a description of how they show mourn• I don't understand how you guys understand stuff. If I say he she talks like a man doesn't mean she is a man am describing simple.

ijawkid:


You are turning round and round bro.....

If Jesus is GOD in flesh why can't mary whom the scriptures call the mother of Jesus be the mother of GOD??..........

The scriptures call mary the mother of Jesus from the fleshly point of view...for goodness sakes mary carried Jesus for 9 months and pushed him out..............mary called Jesus her firstborn son........

I can see you trying to run away from clear facts which would totally contradict your stance.......

And it is high time we discuss on micah 5:2 and romans 9:5......

Your understanding of micah 5:2 is so warped which would soon be corrected....

and so also for romans 9:5 which has been totally mistranslated to suit the trinity dogma but would at the end of the day contradict it............

Its all about you been ready to get down with the going....

Dude I have seen how you react to presented facts of citation to backup claims you just find and excuse question and ask. You know our discussion on my post and how you run away from it. Now they make Romans fit the trinity lol why didn't they put the word trinity in the bible then? As matter of fact it is the new world translation that tries to twist the bible to fit watchtower doctrine like benalvino earlier mentioned!!!

ijawkid:


You are turning round and round bro.....

If Jesus is GOD in flesh why can't mary whom the scriptures call the mother of Jesus be the mother of GOD??..........

The scriptures call mary the mother of Jesus from the fleshly point of view...for goodness sakes mary carried Jesus for 9 months and pushed him out..............mary called Jesus her firstborn son........

I can see you trying to run away from clear facts which would totally contradict your stance.......

And it is high time we discuss on micah 5:2 and romans 9:5......

Your understanding of micah 5:2 is so warped which would soon be corrected....

and so also for romans 9:5 which has been totally mistranslated to suit the trinity dogma but would at the end of the day contradict it............

Its all about you been ready to get down with the going....

Dude I have seen how you react to presented facts of citation to backup claims you just find and excuse question and ask. You know our discussion on my post and how you run away from it. Now they make Romans fit the trinity lol why didn't they put the word trinity in the bible then? As matter of fact it is the new world translation that tries to twist the bible to fit watchtower doctrine like benalvino earlier mentioned!!!

frosbel:

Blasphemy !

And how is it blasphemy?