bigfrancis21:

Jay,

I did some research on him. I've noticed his immense hatred for Nigeria and Nigerians, especially Igbo people. His hatred didn't start today. He goes from thread to thread repeating the same thing he does here. This thing he does excites(Nigerians will say 'sweets') him a lot. He's really deriving fun from the attention being given to him.

In my research I discovered that this is not the first thread he's done this thing. He's been doing it since last year on other threads before he found nairaland this year and joined.

He has 2 monikers, Awodwa Gyan-Oniwe and Kwame Tut. Awodwa Gyan-Oniwe is his older moniker which he used to register on other Nigerian sites like topixforum.com where he attached 'Prof' to his moniker and spewed hatred against Nigeria and the Igbo.
http://m.topix.com/forum/afam/TNTGIHD5TE7O93KOU/p105

When nobody seemed to be paying him attention again on topixforum.com, he joined nairaland with the same moniker and continued his hatred. Then decided to change monikers and opened the 'Kwame Tut' account.

Few minutes ago spam bot banned him for spam activities on his last post, that's the hidden post you see up above. Once spam bot bans you, you cannot comment using the account until the ban expires(usually 1 hour or 1 day). Then he logs back into his first Awodwa account to continue the hatred.

Go through his past posts on both accounts. What you'll see is pure hatred everywhere. Just pure hatred.

The Igbo people must really be some big people to him. That explains why he devotes all this time, attention and energy expressing hatred on them. I don't see him give any other Nigerian tribe this hatred he gives Igbos.

Our attention is giving him so much pleasure. The moderators have not yet taken note of him. He needs to be banned from nairaland, on both accounts. Any other account he opens and continues to spew hatred or any newly-opened moniker that starts to comment here with hatred and negativities will be him and will be banned as well. This man's problem is much bigger than we thought.

I could see by what was written by him that he appears to hate Igbo People and he also has ALOT OF SPARE TIME ON HIS HANDS!!

This topic is called the IGBO and AFRICAN AMERICAN!

All I did is make some observations about what the Igbo contributed to my culture (Jamaican Culture) IGBO eeewoh = Jamaican AWOH!!

Which is just a word of Expression!!

I never said other Africans ethnicities didn't contribute! The people who are getting angry should look at the title of this topic!!

bigfrancis21: @Jayvarley

The person is Fred Douglas. He's an AA. Apparently, he looks too white! I mistook him for a whitey.

In a black and white Photo, it can be easy to mistake him for a whitey and his features are quite Caucasoid and his hair and beard texture are loose.

kwame tut: @Jarvely,Radiollo,Bigfrances,Crayola1
NOW CAN YA'LL DO THE HONOURABLE THING AND HAND ME THIS THREAD. SINCE I RUN, NOW THIS IS "RANDLAND".

THE IBO "POROUS BASKETS ARE DEFEATED WITH FACTS".

THANX TO HONEST NIGERIANS LIKE SHYMEX,OMONAOKADA AND OTHERS WHO ARE MY "FOLLOWERS".

KWAME STANDS FOR THE TRUETH "NOT TRIBALIST PROPAGANDA".

IM NOT RELATED TO ANGOLA-CONGO AND MANDE/SENEGAMBIANS BUT WANTED TO "HIGHLIGHT THEIR PLIGHT". SAME CAN BE SAID ABOUT THE "PLIGHT OF THE MIGHTY AKANS AND YORUBAS".

Are you really still writing to me? Notice I have not been answering you? This thread has become VERY BORING!

Too much COPYING AND PASTING! Its like when you ring a phone number and an answering machine picks up

You seriously need a JOB!

bigfrancis21: THE FAMOUS SLAVE REVOLT OF 1831 IN VIRGINIA BY NAT TURNER, THE EBOE SLAVE

Turner spent his life in Southampton County, Virginia, a predominantly black area.[5] After the rebellion, a reward notice described Turner as:
5 feet 6 or 8 inches high, weighs between 150 and 160 pounds, rather bright complexion, but not a mulatto, broad shoulders, larger flat nose, large eyes, broad flat feet, rather knockkneed, walks brisk and active, hair on the top of the head very thin, no
beard, except on the upper lip and the top of the chin, a scar on one of his temples, also one on the back of his neck, a large knot on one of the bones of his right arm, near the wrist, produced by a blow.[6]

Turner had "natural intelligence and quickness of apprehension, surpassed by few."[7] He learned to read and write at a young age. Deeply religious, Nat was often seen fasting, praying, or immersed in reading the stories of the Bible.[8] He frequently
experienced visions which he interpreted as messages from God. These visions greatly influenced his life; for instance, when Turner was 22 years old, he ran away from his owner, but returned a month later after having such a vision. Turner often
conducted Baptist services, preaching the Bible to
his fellow slaves, who dubbed him "The Prophet".

Turner also had influence over white people, and in
the case of Ethelred T. Brantley, Turner said that he
was able to convince Brantley to "cease from his
wickedness".[9]
By early 1828, Turner was convinced that he "was
ordained for some great purpose in the hands of the
Almighty."[10][11] While working in his owner's
fields on May 12, Turner "heard a loud noise in the
heavens, and the Spirit instantly appeared to me and
said the Serpent was loosened, and Christ had laid
down the yoke he had borne for the sins of men, and
that I should take it on and fight against the Serpent,
for the time was fast approaching when the first
should be last and the last should be first."[12]

Turner was convinced that God had given him the
task of "slay[ing] my enemies with their own
weapons."[12] Turner said, "I communicated the
great work laid out for me to do, to four in whom I
had the greatest confidence" – his fellow slaves
Henry, Hark, Nelson, and Sam.[12]
Beginning in February 1831, Turner came to believe
that certain atmospheric conditions were to be
interpreted as a sign that he should begin preparing
for a rebellion against the slave owners.

On February 11, 1831, an annular solar eclipse was
seen in Virginia. Turner saw this as a black man's
hand reaching over the sun, and he took this vision
as his sign. The rebellion was initially planned for July
4, Independence Day, but was postponed for more
deliberation between him and his followers, and due
to illness. On August 13, there was another solar
eclipse, in which the sun appeared bluish-green
(possibly from debris deposited in the atmosphere by
an eruption of Mount Saint Helens). Turner took this
occasion as the final signal, and about a week later,
on August 21, he began the rebellion.

Rebellion

Turner started with a few trusted fellow slaves. The
rebels traveled from house to house, freeing slaves
and killing the white people they found. The rebels
ultimately included more than 70 enslaved and free
blacks.[13]
Because the rebels did not want to alert anyone to
their presence as they carried out their attacks, they
initially used knives, hatchets, axes, and blunt
instruments instead of firearms.[14] The rebellion
did not discriminate by age or sex, until it was
determined that the rebellion had achieved sufficient
numbers. Nat Turner only confessed to killing one of
the rebellion's victims, Margret Whitehead, whom he
killed with a blow from a fence post.[14]
Before a white militia was able to respond, the rebels
killed 60 men, women, and children.[15]

They spared
a few homes "because Turner believed the poor white
inhabitants 'thought no better of themselves than
they did of negros.'"[16][17] Turner also thought
that revolutionary violence would serve to awaken
the attitudes of whites to the reality of the inherent
brutality in slave-holding, a concept similar to 20th
century philosopher Franz Fanon's idea of "violence
as purgatory".[18] Turner later said that he wanted
to spread "terror and alarm" among whites.[19]

Capture and Execution

The rebellion was
suppressed within two
days, but Turner eluded
capture until October 30,
when he was discovered
hiding in a hole covered
with fence rails. On
November 5, 1831, he was
tried for "conspiring to rebel
and making insurrection",
convicted and sentenced to
death.[20] Turner was
hanged on November 11 in
Jerusalem, Virginia. His
body was flayed, beheaded
and quartered.[21] In the
aftermath of the
insurrection there were 45 slaves, including Turner,
and 5 free blacks tried for insurrection and related
crimes in Southampton. Of the 45 slaves tried, 15
were acquitted. Of the 30 convicted, 18 were hanged,
while 12 were sold out of state. Of the 5 free blacks
tried for participation in the insurrection, one was
hanged, while the others were acquitted.[22]




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner

Nat Turner looks a bit like Chiwetel Ejiofor

Ashanti influence on the Island of Jamaica.


Some Proverbs of the Ashanti Peoples of Jamaica still used today

Thus the Ashanti "It is the Supreme Being who pounds the fufu for the one without arms," (63) has found its counterpart in the Jamaican "When cow lose him tail, God almighty brush fly." In both cases the care of Providence is implied.

The Ashanti "The white-tailed one (the black colubus monkey) says: 'What is in my cheek is not mine, but what has gone into my belly that is my very own,'" (64) has become in Jamaica, where incidentally monkeys are not known; "Monkey say, wha' in a him mout' no fe him, but wha' in a him belly a fe him." (6S) A variation is even closer, "Monkey say wha' da in him jaw-bone no fe him, but wha' da in him belly a fe him." (66)

The Ashanti "When rain beats on a leopard it wets him, but it does not wash out its spots," (67) becomes paraphrased in Jamaica as "Seben years no 'nough fe wash freckle off a guinea-hen back." (68) The saying usually implies the harbouring of revenge.

The Ashanti "When you have quite crossed the river, you say that the crocodile has a lump on its snout," (69) is the Jamaica "No cuss alligator long mout' till you cross riber." (70)

The Ashanti "When a fowl drinks water, it (first) takes it and shows it to the Supreme Being," (71) is usually amplified in Jamaica into "When fowl drink water him say 'tank God,' when man drink water him say nuttin." (72) Sometimes,

{p. 45}

however, the Jamaican merely remarks: "Chicken member God when him drink." (73)

The Ashanti "The hen's foot does not kill her chicken," (74) has become in Jamaica "Fowl tread 'pon him chicken, but him no tread too hard," (75) or again, "Hen neber mash him chicken too hot." (76)

The Ashanti "If you are too wise a man, you say 'Good Morning' to a fowl," (77) is explained by Captain Rattray as being said in a sarcastic sense and with the implication that "you will find yourself committing some supreme folly." The Jamaican with like intent observes: "Man lib too well, him tell fowl howdy."

The Ashanti "When the cat dies, the mice rejoice," (78) is the same as the Jamaican "Cat dead, mus-mus fat."

The Ashanti "A sheep does not give birth to a goat," (79) is rendered in Jamaica "Sheep and goat no all one." (80)

The Ashanti "Where the sheep stands its kid stands," (81) has become in Jamaica "Goat and him kid 'tand one place."

The Ashanti "If the horse does not go to war, its tail does," (82) is adapted in Jamaica "Goat no go a war, but him send him 'kin." (83)

The Ashanti "When a great number of mice dig a hole, it does not become deep," (84) is the Jamaican "Too much ratta nebber dig good hole." (85)

*Kails*:


Quiyah tu nuh!
DWRCL!!

Lol @ renking meat!
no you did not just turn into Shabba on me! yuh nuh easy atall sah.

a weh yuhh a seh. nuff jamaican man a bowaz. Mi nuh bizness weh dem wan seh,
all dat "fire pon bowcat" fuckery dem a talk a juss fi impress fiddem fren. but
as dem link dem katty dem a nyami same way, truss dat.

Yu seet deh Empress!

Nuff ah dem a dweet under style

Mi dun know sey fi yu cratchis mussi sweet,


Nuh true??

All time top 25 Men 100m Sprint List


9.58 WR Usain Bolt Jamaica 16 August 2009 Berlin

9.69 Tyson Gay United States 20 September 2009 Shanghai
Yohan Blake Jamaica 23 August 2012 Lausanne


9.72 Asafa Powell Jamaica 2 September 2008 Lausanne


9.78 +0.9 Nesta Carter Jamaica 29 August 2010 Rieti


9.79 Maurice Greene United States 16 June 1999 Athens
Justin Gatlin United States 5 August 2012 London


9.80 Steve Mullings Jamaica 4 June 2011 Eugene


9.84 Donovan Bailey Canada 27 July 1996 Atlanta
Bruny Surin Canada 22 August 1999 Seville

9.85 Leroy Burrell United States 6 July 1994 Lausanne
Olusoji Fasuba Nigeria 12 May 2006 Ad-Dawhah
Mike Rodgers United States 4 June 2011 Eugene
Richard Thompson Trinidad and Tobago 13 August 2011 Port of Spain


9.86 Carl Lewis United States 25 August 1991 Tokyo
Frankie Fredericks Namibia 3 July 1996 Lausanne
Ato Boldon Trinidad and Tobago 19 April 1998 Walnut
Francis Obikwelu Portugal 22 August 2004 Athens
Keston Bledman Trinidad and Tobago 23 June 2012 Port of Spain
Obadele Thompson [A] Barbados 11 September 1998 Johannesburg
9.87 Linford Christie United Kingdom 15 August 1993 Stuttgart


9.88 Shawn Crawford United States 19 June 2004 Eugene
Walter Dix United States 8 August 2010 Nottwil
Ryan Bailey United States 29 August 2010 Rieti
Michael Frater

@ Kwame Can you please post your youtube vids here with the Jamaican Riddims you mentioned

*Kails*:
jayvarley

tell me seh a mad puss piss yuh a put ina fiyuh carrot juice..
no sah...is who roots fi yuh head?

Nuh watch nuten princess Kalis

Just lie back and mek mi nyam fi yu renking meat

Mi want fi mek yu feel good yuh hear!

Cauz mi mi know sey nuff Jamican bwoy ah gwaan like sey dem too high fi go low

and Mek nuff white man ah tek weh dem ooman

You seem to have a lot of time on your hands for useless arguments.


You seem to think that you know more about my own people than I do.

I will no longer entertain you as you are probably just doing it for fun

Goodnight!

Very weak proof don't you think?

Barbadian Mentality is very different to West Africans.. Take It from someone who is of Barbadian stock

bigfrancis21:

@Bold...my dear how can you say there is racism between africans and african americans who, the last time I checked, are both blacks?
How can a black be a racist to another black? Have you forgotten what race is and what racism also is?

Have you now resorted to making up incorrect statements just to back up your already weakened point-of-view, just like Kails?

Notice that I did not use the word RACIST in my least thread. I talked about rejection.


I will talk to you tomorrow I have to head out!

bigfrancis21:

@Bold...from the bolded I can infer then that there are lots of unmarried barbadian women who give birth out of wedlock. That still doesn't mean Barbados isn't a patriarchal society, You are answering your grandmother;s surname today basically because she produced offspring out of wedlock.

I do not believe that Barbadian society is as patriarchal as African society.

Primarily because we are not tribal people anymore. We see our countrymen as Barbadians and not Yoruba or Igbo or Akan or Asante.

I did tell you that tribal differences were put aside during slavery as all tribes/ethnicities had something in common they are ALL BLACK PEOPLE, who were under oppression

Mrs.Chima:


I ain't yo love-vendor!

Gal yu need fi help I out,

Forward di King a special room

Mi done mek up mi mind

Mi want fi Nyam Kalis !

bigfrancis21:

Now, let me ask you this one simple question. You claim to be too mixed. Yes I understand. Now, are you more mixed than we Africans ourselves? Jamaicans may have over the years mixed with highest 30 different tribes, yet Nigeria alone has over 250 different tribes let alone the whole of Africa. Yet we still retain our identity. So why coming up with the all-mixed alibi as like you're one rare genetic make-up? With as few as 30 selected tribes shipped off to Jamaica, how more can you get more mixed than a Nigerian with 250 neighboring tribes or an African with over 800 different nationalities?

You claim to be too mixed to be affiliated to one specific tribe yet African Americans are submitting their DNA samples forward to rediscover their lineages and identity. The same AAs are coming back more and more to Africa to rejoin with their kinsmen. Clearly, they don't share the same view here with you for if they did they would not have bothered to take the DNA test in the first place. Instead they would have come up with silly excuses such as 'I am too mixed to have an ancestry'.

You claim to bee too mixed to have tribal affiliations yet African Ancestry.com, the US Leading DNA testing company which has the largest database of African samples, has been proving your point weak by linking African Americans up to their Paternal and Maternal ancestries.

You claim to be too mixed yet research works and sources that give the ancestries of AAs classify them by mainly by one ancestry which is their paternal ancestry.

I asked you before if you were Barbadian(father's side) or Jamaican(mother's side) and you didn't give me a specific answer. You chose to clearly play blind to the fact that the world is patriarchal that no matter the number of mixing you've had in your ancestry, at the end of the day you are still of your father's ancestry. I bet you have a surname. You claim to be to mixed to identify with one side, now answer me, are you answering your father's or mother's surname?

Even in the Christian bible, genealogy was traced paternally. Micah was the son of Meribbaal, who was the son of Jonathan, who was the son of Saul, who was the son of Kish and so on and on. The Jewish people had wives who were Amorite, Arabic, Galileans, Elamites, Parthians, Romans, Asians etc. What are their descendants known as today? Too mixed people? Or Jewish? Lol

Finally, by claiming to be too mixed, are you saying DNA genealogy testing is nonsense and should be done away with?

Now you seem to be exaggerating my words. Look through all of my previous posts and see if you can find me saying that I am too mixed to be identified!!

I am happy that many African Americans are tracing their African roots and establishing tribal ties.

IT IS A GOOD THING!

I only said that the science is not yet flawless, and has it's limitations.

So in other words I do not want to depend solely on it.


In answer to your question " Now, are you more mixed than we Africans ourselves?

The answer is Afro Caribbean and African Americans have higher percentages of NON AFRICAN GENES than West Africans.

Or do you think am incorrect??



Your question

So why coming up with the all-mixed alibi as like you're one rare genetic make-up?


Because we are! There is no other population on earth who's genes are quite like ours.

This is the reason a geneticist can identify one of us as Afro-Caribbean by a simple swab test.

If there were no difference a geneticist would not be able to tell the difference between myself or yourself.

That does not mean I am denying my links to Africa


Now your question regarding surnames is interesting because in Barbados Law

If a woman was unmarried and had a child the child would inherit the surname of his Mother.

As there was a lack of marriage for at least 3 or 4 generations I bear the surname of my Fathers Mother and not his Father.

My Fathers Father also bears the name of his Mother and not his own Father

Now you final question:

What are their descendants known as today? Too mixed people? Or Jewish?


Jews who mixed with other non Jewish populations obviously produced offspring.

However the Black Jews of Ethiopia who claim lineage through King Solomon and David were not even accepted by the Jews of Israel.

If you do some research on this subject you will find that there is a great deal of racism against blacks in Israel Jewish or not.

It is the same for African Americans who EMBRACE their African heritage.

Native Africans will REJECT THEM and say that AA'S deliberately discarded their African identity

bigfrancis21:

@Bold...you're still supporting what I have said before that autosomal(44 chromosomes) DNA testing points to one's regional ancestry in percentage. Sure there will be a unique Caribbean genetic marker that has evolved from over the years just the same way you have west african, central african native american, and european genetic markers. This unique Caribbean genetic marker will be present in the 44 autosomal chromosomes for it is right here among these 44 chromosomes that genetic crossover(called chromosomal crossover actually) takes place mainly. The Y DNA, by and large, remains
unaffected by genetic crossover and it is transferred directly from grandfather, to father, to son and in most cases points to one ancestry. The Mt DNA may undergo chromosomal crossover but to a much lesser extent than the 44 Autosomes.

The DNA test performed on the rapist you're talking about was autosomal. For the umpteenth time, autosomal DNA testing isn't tribe specific. It doesn't point to a single tribe but rather to the region where the individual's recent ancestors have been residing in. Y DNA and Mt DNA testings are what determine specifically one's tribe. That doesn't mean Delroy Grant can't determine his paternal or maternal ancestry. If he wanted to then he'd submit specifically Y DNA and Mt DNA samples to locate his ancestral tribes.

Look at the Autosomal(44 chromosomes) performed on Mark Shriver, for example, which I provided the snapshot image on the previous page. The result only showed his regional ancestries which were European, Native American and West African. What it meant was that all his ancestors may have come from those regions. To further determine specifically the exact tribes within the regions indicated in Autosomal DNA testing where Mark's earliest ancestors originated from the Y DNA and Mt DNA(which African Ancestry.com called specific) will have to be performed.




I've come to the conclusion that genetics is a very complex subject for many to fully understand after all.

I really do not understand the point you are making here. Never did I say that autosomal test was tribe specific!

That is very clear to me and everyone here, to which I am sure

The tests conducted on the molester Delroy Grant were not meant to necessarily trace an African tribal origin but rather to give a racial profile and background. As this was a police investigation!

They were successful to some extent as they found that he was of Caribbean stock


I was simply pointing out that there is some genetic difference between a Caribbean person and a native African person!


However when I do you seem to be giving me long paragraphs about DNA testing! As if that negates the genetic differences between the two groups

Anyway I give up

bigfrancis21: @Jayvarley

I forgot to mention that while a man can perform both the Y DNA(Y DNA being a man he is) and Mt DNA(which everybody inherits exclusively from their mothers) tests, females CANNOT perform the Y DNA tests since they don't have the Y chromosome(which determines maleness). They are naturally handicapped in this aspect though they can perform the Mt DNA test(since both males and females inherit this from their mothers).

To determine their paternal ancestry, females will have to bring a male relative from her father's side, her brother, father, paternal uncle etc to do the test.

Dr. Mae Johnson cannot determine her paternal ancestry from just her Mt DNA alone. She'll have to get a male relative from her father's side, not her husband's family, to do the test. Surprisingly, her male ancestry could point to Europe given that certain white slave masters fathered children by black mothers.

Oprah Winfrey's test results was Mt DNA results(maternal). She's yet to perform her paternal ancestry test.

Yes I am already aware of how the test works and I also know that women inherit XX Chromosomes and Males inhereit XY.

It is already stating the very obvious

bigfrancis21: If they couldn't pinpoint a specific tribe on her Mt DNA test, what about the Y DNA test? Or you just concluded that because her Mt DNA test wasn't conclusive then all other tests would be inconclusive?

What about her paternal side?

Moreover you just don't assume that because her own case was different 'so are many other african americans'. You'll have to come up with substantial evidence. This is the problem I have with people who just assume and generalize without verification or coming up with evidence.

You talked about Jamaican Igbo as being different from Nigeria Igbo due to mixing. In Igboland, there are quite some Igbo families who had the man marry foreign(philistine, swiss, european, american, and even AA) wives. Clearly, these foreign people have introduced non-african genes to the new generation descendants for live. Yet, their descendants identify as Igbo, bear Igbo names and speak Igbo. I had 2 as neighbours in my apartment housing in the university and I could even drop their pictures here on nairaland, though I won't do that because I consider that to be intrusion of their privacy.

Now in, 3 generations to come, their descendants must have had genetic admixtures similar to Jamaican Igbo. Now tell me, what makes them any different from Jamaican Igbo?

I'll tell you a story about DNA mixture and Identity affiliations.

I have a Igbo friend, Chukwuka with Brown as surname which is rare surname to have in Igboland as Igbo people rarely have foreign surnames. He was a coursemate in college. He told me the history of his foreign surname. His great grandfather, Mr. Brown, was a white man from switzerland who happened to come to Igboland for some purpose which I have forgotten. The man took an Igbo wife from Anambra state and they had a first-generation set of half castes who spoke Igbo and smattering of Swiss. Half-castes in Nigeria are mixed race people who are easily known by their lighter-than-average lightskins and foreign body features. One of the half-caste sons on growing later married an Igbo woman from the same Anambra state(village) to give birth to the second-generation quarter castes, including my friend's father. These second-generation quarter castes are my friend's paternal uncles and aunts. My friend told me that all but one of his quarter cast uncles and aunts were all fully black in complexion and none could speak Swiss, but they all speak fluent Igbo. He said the remaining one despite being considerably darkened in skin tone(compared to the first generation) and lighter than his siblings(second-generation) has some body features that indicate that he indeed had some foreign blood in him.

His quarter-caste father, who is black, then further married his mother from the same Anambra state to give birth to Chukwuka and his siblings(third generation) who have full black features and all speak Igbo. They live in Enugu. I've seen his siblings and they look authentically African with no feature that indicates foreign blood. And so it continues till other generations. The only thing reminiscent of their Swiss ancestry is their name. If any male in the Brown family were to perform the Y DNA test, the result would point to a European(Swiss) ancestry. The Brown family currently identify as Igbo people, since they have more than 90% Igbo blood and 5% swiss blood(Y DNA).

In answer to your question a Jamaican Igbo will be different to a Nigerian Igbo.

Mainly because 14 generations have passed meaning there will be more mutations present in the DNA ( A spontaneous change in a gene that
was not present in a family before) Meaning Igbo Jamaicans will have specific mutations that other Igbo will not.


Also the demographics of Jamaica historically and presently are different to that of Nigeria.

A lot of people of different races have inhabited Jamaica in the past and still do to present day.

This includes Arawak, Jews, Syrians, Chinese and Northern Europeans of course, like English Irish and Scottish.

Thus the Jamaican coat of arms "Out of many one people"

Over many generations the DNA of these groups filtered into the African peoples of Jamaica.


I usually can always tell a Jamaican person by looks alone, even if they do not talk.

So a Nigerian IGBO having a children or Grandchildren with persons of Swiss descent will not produce an equivalent of a present day Jamaican Igbo. . Especially as the Swiss were not among the Europeans who were present in Jamaica

In order to produce something genetically close to a present day Jamaican, Slavery would have to happen all over again and the exact populations who came together then would have to do so again for the same period of time which is impossible





Sometime ago there was a young boy in the UK of Caribbean extraction who needed a bone marrow transplant and there was an appeal to Afro-Caribbean people to forward so they could find a match. This story was also on the news.

A Nigerian lady came forward to see if she could provide a match and she was turned away and specifically stated that they needed Afro Caribbean donors.

She was very upset and said " I could save him".

Her heart was in the right place but she just did not understand the genetic changes and mixtures which took place during the slave trade.

My understanding is that when two populations inhabit a particular area soon enough there will be people who mix with each other.

So for instance a Jamaican Igbo will not be as pure as a Nigerian Igbo and may have features from other ethnicities or races.


Yet I would never deny the great influence the IGBO had on Jamaican linguistics.

On a video by Dr Kittles on Youtube they did conduct a Mt DNA test on Mae Jemison and could not specify her tribal origins.

The same thing is happening to many other African Americans!

Everything is not as clear cut as you may like it to be.



If you research on a convicted rapist by the name of Delroy Grant who offended between 1992 and 2009.

At one of his crimes he left DNA behind and this was sent to the US to analysed.
The geneticist's concluded he was of Caribbean extraction and they felt that we was from one of the Windward islands.


Though Grant was from Jamaica the Geneticists were not far off. The were correct in the fact he was Caribbean.
He was not mistaken genetically for a native African. This tells us that there is something unique in the DNA of Caribbean people,
which has experienced changes, mutations and admixture since the time we were in Africa.

bigfrancis21: You still don't get. She claimed you people were too mixed for DNA testing to locate each specific tribe in your ancestry, in her bid to discredit the DNA testing that has recorded enormous success in fields such as paternity cases and murder cases.

What you just described above can also be attributed to the people of Africa, Europe and even India. In those places, when you go 14 generations back you'll get 16,384 different people with possible different ethnicities.

After she then modified it to claim that DNA testing CANNOT go beyond 5 generations back while the same testing has successfully been able to go 10 generations back or more down to the very first ancestor.

Finally, africa has a thousand more tribes than the select few, say 20 or 30, that were shipped to America and a lot of inter tribal marriages occur everyday. If you're talking about people who are mixed with excessive ancestries more than ever, you are likely to find them in Africa. So I don't see why that of AAs/Caribs should be so unique anyway. [b]If AAs/Caribbean peeps had kept their tribal affiliations all these while like Africans do, identity crises like this would not have been there and there would practically have been no need for DNA testing.

[/b]Take a look around you. You are unlikely to find somebody who is 100% pure of only onee ancestry. In Europe, Asia etc. Even within a tribe in Africa. Even some whites were shocked to have native american, and even African ancestries pop up in their DNA testing on their maternal sides and autosomally yet today they are whites. Europeans tend to have so many ancestries in their DNA. Its common to find an English man with Italian, german, french, spanish ancestries. Yet at the end of the day he's an English man.

Nobody is reputing the fact that people around the world are likely to be more mixed than ever. However, paternal ancestry still remains the most important because at the end of the day, your fatherland is where you belong and where you have the most rights.

Little wonder when Blair Underwood was interviewed concerning his ancestry, despite having 3 ancestries(Igbo, Yoruba and Bamoun), he went on to specifically mention Igbo exclusively(Igbo being his paternal line).

At the end of the day where would you yourself properly belong to and have more rights, in Barbados(your maternal land) or Jamaica(your paternal land)?

Bigfrancis21 You have made some very valid points especially about African Americans not knowing truly who they are. But what you must realise is that they did not just simply CHOOSE discard TRIBAL TIES. Slave masters were very afraid when Africans slave spoke their Mother tongue. They feared the slaves were planning rebellions. This is how language and culture gradually become lost over time.

So if any slaves were caught speaking African languages them would be severely punished.

Memoirs in Jamaica written by Slave masters and other whites record some these punishments.

One punishment would be to pickle slaves in Vinegar and hot peppers.



Mae Jemison an African American Astronaut also carried out a DNA test which concluded that it could not trace her ancestry to any specific African tribe and could only tell her shall was of West African Ancestry.

This is simply because there must have been too much genetic crossover from different tribes in her Ancestry

So like I said before there is truth to what Kalis is saying regarding this issue.

Slaves also did not have time do sit children down and teach them their Tribal Heratige. These people were truly in bondage.
It is not because we don't want to be African.

Consider yourself lucky that you have you culture and language intact.



Also it is my Father who is from Barbados and my Mother who is Jamaican.

Where do I see myself?

Well I would have to say I feel connected to them both of the Islands.

Also both Islands generally were supplied with the same African Ethnicities so I do not feel as if I am Half of one thing and half of the other.

@Bigfrancis21 One of the earlier posts by Kalis made references to the term DUNDUS.

So I made further clarifications for the education of the forum

The term "DUNDUS" is a derogatory term used for Albino's in Jamaica. However some Jamaicans incorrectly use the term to refer to anyone who is very fair skinned. However an Albino lack of pigmentation in their hair and eyes make them very distinguishable from other faired skinned persons.


Here is KING YELLOW MAN one of my Favourite Jamaican Reggae dancehall Artistes.

Who is Albino


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NdqsIeA6mU

@Bigfrancis21

There is truth in what Kalis is saying though. If you go back (350 years ago) 14 generations in your family you will have 16, 384 ancestors
Which is roughly the time period of slavery in the US.

Out of those 16,384 ancestors it is highly likely that some of them were from different African ethnicities.



Once African slaves were taken to their colonies, they began to leave their tribal differences behind them for OWN SURVIVAL.
Tribes who were usually enemies with each other became friends because they shared a common enemy the European.


This is the reason why African American and Caribbean people are so genetically diverse groups.


If you also include the European and Native American/Arawak contribution to those peoples you have a unique genetic signature

The term "RED IBO" is an OLD JAMAICAN TERM and is not often used today except by the older Generation. This is simply because the tribal affiliations have become practically non existent in todays Jamaican society .

A fair skinned person may be referred to as simply "RED"

The IBO/IGBO part and meaning had been lost/forgotten by todays generation.

bigfrancis21:

That's true. No one was disputing that. That is why you have autosomal testing. I already discussed this earlier before on another thread. The autosomal testing helps to show you other possible ancestries in your make up.

However, at the end of the day, paternal and maternal ancestries are the most important of all. We live in a patriarchal world whereby we identify paternally. We take on our father's surname, who took his surname from his own father and so on. Most countries, tribes, and societies identify paternally, not maternally. Only a minute number of them are matriarchal societies.

In Africa where we have a thousand more tribes than the select few that were taken to the Americas, paternal identity has helped to preserve our identities. In Africa today you'd commonly see someone who is proud Ijaw(let's call him Tonye), for example, yet his mother was Ibibio from her father(Tonye's maternal grandfather). Then his maternal grandmother could probably have been Efik. Then his father's mother could probably have been Igbo while his paternal grandfather is Ijaw, who passed his paternal Ijaw ancestry, genes and family name down to Tonye's father and down to Tonye. As you can see, Tonye is phenotypically a mix of Ibibio, Efik, Igbo and Ijaw but at the end of the day, Tonye is Ijaw. Former Niger Delta militant, Asari Dokubo is a clear example of this. According to him, all his grandmothers except one to 5 generations back were Igbo but today, Asari is a proud Ijaw man who identifies with Ijaw causes and issues, even though genetically he's a mix of Ijaw and Igbo.

While some people decide to stick to their paternal side despite having other ancestries, some others decide to acknowledge both or all possible sides. At the end of the day it all boils down to the side you choose to affiliate with. However, one can never fully know all the different ancestries he's had so far since his first ancestors because genetics can be complex. African Ancestry.com confirmed this. Wanting to know all ancestries would entail knowing your father's ancestry, father's mother's father and mother's ancestries, paternal grandmother's both parents ancestries, maternal grandmother's both parents' ancestries and so on. This will lead you to very complex maze. Another difficulty that you also encounter is the fact that in an admixture the genes of a tribe could be dominant and overshadow the genes of another tribe which happens to be recessive, thus making it difficult to detect that recessive-gene ancestry in DNA tests.

In every human being there are 46 chromosomes. Two of these chromosomes are XX(for females) or XY(for males) and these two chromosomes are called the Sex chromosomes as they determine the sex of an individual and they play no part in determining one's physical looks. The remaining 44 chromosomes come from both parents(22-22 each) are called Autosomal Chromosomes and it is the natural unique mixture of the 44 chromosomes from both parents that determines our physical characteristics and make up, which of our parents we look like etc. It is also here that other possible ancestries show up which DNA genealogy testing takes care of. It is also the unique admixture of the same 44 chromosomes that explains why someone will fail to look like both his Igbo-Igbo parents but look like his maternal Idoma grandmother because the Idoma autosomal chromosomes, which his maternal grand mother passed on to her daughter(his mom) which she then passed down to him, may have been stronger than the Igbo autosomal chromosomes from his father's side thus showing up in his physical make-up, thus giving him Idoma looks. Yet he remains Igbo but looks like the Idoma people instead.

History has not been wrong so far in the affiliation of one to one's paternal side. Nature has indicated that one's most important ancestries are paternal and maternal and went further to confirm this by providing us with the unique Y-Chromosome Father to Son transfer and Mitochondrial mother to child transfer. By so doing, Nature has confirmed that paternal ancestry is the first and foremost important ancestry, followed by the maternal ancestry next, after which all other possible ones follow. If it didn't deem these two sides important, it wouldn't have come up with this unique genetic phenomenon.

You next question might be how I'm able to know all these. I took genetics(biology) classes in both semesters of my first year in college, which I really enjoyed.

A very interesting post.

I have noticed that most African people are very patriarchal and are very much into lineage.

When asked about my parentage by African people, I tell them my Mother is Jamaican and my Dad is Barbadian, then they
will reply "Then you are from Barbados"

As it seems they hold less value to Mt DNA.

Denying thousands of my ancestors of their contribution to my existence and also denying HALF of the genes my Mother made me with.

Now suppose I were to do a Y DNA test and it were found that my Y Chromosome is from Europe,
Would those same people consider me WHITE? Though Phenotypically I am clearly a black man,
with a tiny Percentage of White ancestry that would never had been known about without the DNA test.

The example you gave also relates to me. I resemble my Maternal Grandfather, who I suspect was of IGBO stock
mainly because that is what Nigerian people see in me.

I have also learnt recently that my Maternal Grandfather's own paternal Grandfather was an African American free slave who fled the states to Jamaica to escape the cruel racism in the states.

I have seen some pictures of that line of family and my Mother and I still look like them unchanged.

Also there are an increasing number of African Americans who DNA tests are found to match tribes that are NOT WEST AFRICAN. But rather from Northern and Eastern Africa. This tells us that during the slave trade, WEST AFRICA at some stage would have become exhausted. So slave raiders would have had to search deeper in land to find more slaves.

I once had a conversation with an older white guy who I use to work with around ten years ago. In brief he said to me
"West Africa was just the sending off point, it does not mean all slaves were West African."

Now I can agree with you that MOST African Americans and Caribbean people are of WEST AFRICAN ANCESTRY. But as more and more people are being tested some are found to have matches in places like Uganda and Sudan and the Nubian Kingdom area.

As more people are tested we will have a bigger picture.

bigfrancis21: What does it say please? I'm currently using my mobile and data plan doesn't allow video streaming.

Just some information on the History of African Americans and the DNA tests and how they work

Hello all.

Here is another interesting video from Geneticist Dr Kittles who explains the Genetic structure of the African American Population.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYv5Ig7WglA


If you go back 14 generations you have 16,384 Ancestors. The Y DNA TEST and Mt DNA test only show DNA from Father to Son
or from Mother to Daughter. It will not show you what Mothers pass to their Sons or what Fathers have passed to their daughters therefore missing thousands of persons DNA in your ancestry.

Mt and Y DNA is only a small Fraction of your Ancestry and by NO MEANS all of it.

*Kails*:


Afta mi nah study dat deh poppy show.
Eniwey a Sunday mawnin is wa u a fix up fi nyam fi
breakfast? A ackee, saltfish, banana, an breadfruit
mi a pree right ya now. Mi ongli hope sey mi nuh bun up
di sittin dem. mi good fi bun up di seasoning lol.

Wha appen rude gal?

Yu know sey mi neva get no breakfast.

Had to guh work.

Is wha yu mek fi mi fi nyam?

*Kails*:


big up fi yuhself.
cah yuh nuh badmind like fiyuh battyfish fren inna di other tread.
wid him wutless an wasteman self.

Lol

Nuh more fightin inna Zion yu hear