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In that case, being radical does not make you a true christian. It just shows you are very expressive and driven.
You have no way of verifying what happened in a dream. Not everything is subject to physical verification to be true.

No true Scotsman fallacy at it finest. I expected exactly this.

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What is the meaning of radical christian? Can you also give biblical examples? i think i asked earlier. Can you believe or be convinced that i had a dream?

Radical christian aka Jnr Jesus type.

Also i believe every human is capable of dreaming. However i have no way of verifying if what you say you dreamt about is true or false. I have yet to meet a person who says they have never dreamt and that anyone who says they dream is a liar.

Dtruthspeaker:


Without any book saying anything are people not wicked and evil already?

Simple good things as standing in line at the ATM or clearing off the road to drop a person or talk to someone is not done.

If little things such as these are not done how can you expect that those same people will not steal common goods, steal husbands and wives, kill opposition?

People love to do wrongs and wickedness whether they call themselves atheist, paganist or Righteousist, they are all the same, sons of evil.

The Bible which is the Only Book with the Best Good Laws is only seeking to separate any who does not want to belong to these evil people, showing them how they can come out from it.

1.The bible is not the only religious book that talks of good morals

2. There are bad morals in the bible that would get called out even by christians today if it ever happens to them.

3. It doesn't matter if the bible says thou shall not steal. So far as there is no immediate punishment for the bad deed, it will continue...scary hell stories don't scare people after sometime, trust me.

4. The best way to ensure stability, good deeds and a prosperous society is to execute the law with strictness. The law of man has done well for certain countries that execute it appropriately.

5. The main concept is execution of laws....it must be immediate instead of expected in the future otherwise it fails to illicit the expected behaviour. Psychology 101

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Not at all, i have only asked you to be more open minded and not box all your understanding and experience to the limited prisms of the laboratory. The ethereal goes above and beyond the laboratory and physical. As useful as the meter rule is, you cannot use it to measure temperature. You need something else.

i've asked you to reasonably consider the authority and authenticity of the Bible especially on matters beyond the physical. Evidently, there are matters beyond the physical. Billions of humans all through humanity and in every continent have testified to the reality of the ethereal and the supernatural. What makes one metal more precious than another metal? That will make for a curious debate, but summarily, we'll usually submit to the popular view and take the precious metal as precious and not garbage. If billions of people are saying and claiming something, you should be wise to more carefully consider it than dismiss it whimsically. Reasonably explain what you mean by proof of authenticity and examples of books that pass your gauge.

1. I was a radical christian. I am still a christian, but because of fellowship, nothing more nothing less. I care for people...not for entities I cant prove.

2. Consensus is not fact. I am only convinced by proof. Nothing more.

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i told you from the start, you can't subject the ethereal to laboratory or science. It is above science. What i would advise is that you explore the validity and authority of the Bible and when you find it, believe it. Jesus Christ still transforms and saves souls in their millions so that they will not die or perish. Cheers

You cannot ask me to use the bible as an authority when t has no proof of its authenticity. Saying the soul is ethereal and so the soul must just be believed to exist is unreal. What you are
asking me to do is to suspend reason. I refuse to do so, and you should refuse it too.

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Individual emotions are not measurable or repeatable. For instance, a true christian will not get angry at all, he will attempt to make peace or even turn the other cheek as it were. Also, the so called influence(r)s can come into play. One may not get angry because of what may be lost by the anger, or because of what was the consequence of the first anger or previous episodes of anger. Some may even feel that they deserve to be hit harder each time.
i have proven the existence of the soul to you, only that you dismissed my evidence without any consideration. This is why i already stated that it is not subjected to physical or scientific or laboratory evidence. You agree with the physical characteristics of the soul like emotion and intellect), only that you do not agree that the soul is responsible. There is no further way i can help you in the lab on that. You need to perhaps contest the authority of the Scriptures. If you told me the dream you had and i do not believe it due to lack of lab evidence, there's nothing much you can do for me in the regard. It does not mean you did not have the dream.

Bro let's agree to disagree...still haven't provided the evidence for the soul.... Nevermind, I know you cant.

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Lol, you were concerned that God CANNOT work at night. After giving you proof, you're asking for magnitude. i should do well to increase my "emotion magnitude" too.

Okay let me track back....and rephrase.

Why did he not work in the night during the creation story? It may have to do with the magnitude of the miracle....but lets not go there.just answer the question. Why did he not work in the night if he could, since miracles were performed in the night?

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It's akin to saying we should disregard X-rays and gamma rays and electromagnetism for instance. While you cannot see them, you can see their effects on visible things as it were. The functions of the soul include emotions, intellect and a will. These are observable things.
Like i have well stated, individual emotions are not generally repeating, measurable or the same. Whatever, influence(r) you might blame or claim, that's the truth. The crux and summary then goes to the authority and the effect/power of the Bible, as that's where i'm coming from.
The teaching and influence of the Bible is so powerful and drastic that it leaves the diligent student with real reasons to take what it says about the human soul seriously.

And im telling you that human emotions are repeatable...9/ 10 times i can make you angry by indulging in certain behaviours. If i hit you hard each time, you will be angry for most of the episodes. Human emotions are repeatable....i dnt get why you seem to think they are not. Gamma rays can be confirmed through other scientific tools and its effects as well. In order to state that gamma rays caused so so and so to happen we must confirm first that gamma rays exist. Same applies to the soul, the soul needs to be proven for us to attribute emotions to it. You have failed to do that. What shows that it is not the work of fairy dust or shows its not the work of my grandpa's ghost? Prove the soul first before anything else.

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This is what i have been trying to say, we cannot subject the ethereal to only physical or scientific. It brings us to the real matter. When we say that a man has a soul, it is a spiritual reality, terminology and classification. The body is the physical part and more or less the container for the soul and spirit. There is an intertwining of sorts however given the fact that it's evidently the same man, one way or the other. It's similar to what we call the Trinity. The God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit concept can be quite challenging if you want it to be.
The Bible authoritatively shows and teaches that the soul of man is the seat of emotions, intellect and the will. It communicates these physically using the human body. A person has emotions, intellect and a will but can be limited to physically demonstrate it. You may want to show your joy, or fury, or intellect, using your legs, or your hands, or your mouth. But if they were tied at that moment or imprisoned, then you cannot. You were limited in expressing them but it did not remove the fact that you had them.
BTW, people hide and control their emotions all the time. It's called deception or self-control. Also everyone does not react the same way, one man's poison is indeed another man's meat. Privilege is an influence(r) for instance. We both agree that some use it and others abuse it. No cues help you predict these things individually and consistently.
In summary, i think the issue is with nomenclature and not with evidence. We all agree on humans having at least emotions and intellect. What we do not completely agree on is the part of the human responsible. Which once again takes us back to the authority of the Bible and what it has to say concerning the part of the human responsible for emotions and intellect.

Again, im asking you to disrefard all things that you cannot see evidence of. There is evidence for all the feelngs you named bro. None so far. Those who hide their feelings beyond recognition are extremely good at it. Take into consideration, if i try to illicit jealous emotions and expect anger or grim faced disappointment. Now imagine I didnt get these two expressions, normally I would conclude the person was not jealous. However if i knew that jealousy has certain cues and i look out for those, Most likely I wil notice these. Generally people dont look out for these cues. General human behaviour is predictable, fuelled by our emotions. Since most people are not trained to look out for these cues. So you are objectively wrong.

Anyways prove your point for the soul .....

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The many miracles that happened at night in the Bible?

Which of them is on the magnitude of creation of the world?

Felimax:


Hopefully my dear, a lot.
God's action or inaction is bound by time when dealing with man or His creations. We are called mortals also because we are time bound, they are called immortals because they are not bound by time. A little while from now you may not be too sure of your ability to respond to my reply and that you we are incapacitated does not stop people that are capable to kepp giving him praises. Take it from me, the energy you spend to justify your doubts is not worth it.
A little prayer of request for God to feed you with answers will blow you out of proportion.

I asked this question to stimulate our minds. I didnt require preaching, though i appreciate the tone you used.

Being immortal doesnt mean ine is not time bound. Look beyond it from just the aging aspect. If they have to wait till an appropriate time to do something they are time bound. If they are time bound because of us mortals then they are time bound. No two ways about it.

Kobojunkie:
Pay attention..... I am not one of the many but I believe their argument sounds a lot more plausible than the one you continue to attempt here suggesting God's omnipotence has a 6-day limit where in comes to creating of the earth..

You agree that an omnipotent God chose to create the world in 6 days instead of instantly so the sabbath day could be a thing? Yikes bro.....ofcos if Yahweh was omnipotent, he should be able to it instantly without being time bound. But the author, being restricted by his knowledge....felt what he wrote was amazing even for an omnipotent Being. It worked then on the cavemen then....still seems to be working now.

Also I see my point is lost on you. The whole creation story makes no sense. But I'm sure you will disagree.

Kobojunkie:
1. I don't believe the writer set up to showcase all of God's abilities by that one instance of God spending 6 days in creating the world. In fact, many agree that that had more to do with God's intention of setting up a Sabbath, later on for His people, based on that example of His.

2. Refuse all you want but the fact is I read the same entries you claim to have read and I don't see how you come come away the conclusions you claim without needing to bend the tale to suit your narrative there

More assumption on your part. So because of a sabbath day, Yahweh went through 6 tiring days of creation? Are you even listening to yourself? The mental gymnastic is amazing. Why am i even surprised....carry on. Charley Im done.

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to the front of your house. sciences recognizes a human is made up of mind, spirit and body. where the mind is the soul.

You have faied to provide the proof of science recognising the spirit. Metaphysics aka beyond physics is not a science....not in this case.

Kobojunkie:
1. Why can't I assume He can do it instantly? What makes you believe 6 days is the best He could do of this job ...what evidence do you have of this assumption of yours?

2. I am not dragging neither am I the one being slick here... I am being serious... what in the write-up leads you to conclude that God rested everyday when we are only and clearly told that He rested on the Seventh day?

Are you saying that the bible doesn't showcase the case scenario of God's abilities? If you were writing about a God inspired by that god to showcase that god's power in all its glory, wouldn't you write the best that that god is capable of?

As for the second issue, i refuse to continue.. I don't have the time to explain simple deductive reasoning to you. Its not even that hard, not everything is written plainly, don't assume, deduce.

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Proof of what, so i'm not getting you wrong?

That Yahweh can do it?

[quote author=Image123 post=101999858][/quote]

1. I agree.


2 down to the rest...."Soul" cannot be proven, let's stick to proven phenomena.

You seem to talking about the degree of emotions, not the emotion itself. That's why you keep talking about of measurement. You are looking at one part of the picture.

Most people would have similar emotions given an influencer....the degree of their reaction however will always be different. That's not what we are discussing here. If i want to elicit jealousy, I would introduce an influencer. Now if I want to illicit erratic behaviour from jealous emotions, that would be different. Whether you scream or smile through it all, one can never hide their emotions....there are visual cues that always gives these things away. These are very observable. We miss these cues because we dont tend to look out for them. We rather want to see the bombastic reactions.

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In this case, we have said the same thing so why different conclusions? Science is consistent and measurable, it is principled. i don't know where the 100 figure came out from though. How you say science is not specific is funny, anyway i'll let it slide. Emotions are not specific, consistent or consistently reproducible. The exact same conditions that make you burst into tears today may make you angry tomorrow or simply whimper.

I think i may have misunderstood your use of "specific". Help me out with that.

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Not necessarily an anomaly, it depends on many things. But not to divert, the point from here is that the same gruesome scene will not produce the same emotion in you 10 or 2 different times. And it's same for everyone. It is not consistent, science is consistent.

Again, you cannot say these things without considering the influencers. Nothing happens in a vacuum...there are always influencers. That's why considering a particular influencer, behaviours can be predicted. A soldier first time of killing is likely to be daunting on him/her, but after a while, it gets easier.. .no one is surprised when that happens, but if the opposite happens, we are surprised. Even then certain explanations may be given to explain this. Behaviour is predictable most often than not. Experts can bring out certain emotion in you using certain influencers. It cant be measured in the traditional scientific way, but certainly it can be observed and reproduced on a consistent basis with high success rates.

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You know that's why i asked you what science is na, since my view is very narrow. But you forgot to tell me.

Lol I know you are joking....didnt mean to be rude though. I feel when you think of science, you think, test tubes, laboratory, chemicals etc. Anything can be scientific if it follows a systematic process and can be reproduced on a consistent basis. It doesnt have to be 100% it just needs to be consistent enough, say, 9/10 even...

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Lol, not just a reason but a billion reasons, exactly why emotion is not subject to science.

Emotions can be observed...if you say it not subject to science you are wrong. It can be observed and reproduced consistently given the appropriate influencers. Sociology and psychology are sciences too...just so you know.

Kobojunkie:
1. I stated that even an omnipotent God can take as short or as long as He wants when doing any job. It's up to Him.

2. Let me make it simpler then. Where does the writer posit that God stopped working at the end of each creation day or night? Where did God go at the end of each work day?

1. You are assuming. You cant assume he can do it instantly, because at his best, he used 6 days.

2. You are only dragging....Im sure my message has reached others to think critically...you are just being slick. Im done

Kobojunkie:
1. And what part of my response is not in line with what scripture says of God?

2. How does that indicate that God does not work in the evenings? How did you get that from what is written? If anything, we are instead told that He rested on the Seventh day.

1. I stated that an omnipotent God doesn't need 6 days to create the universe, it should be instant. And you are here telling me he could've dragged it if he wanted..for what reason? That's why I'm disappointed in your answer... You are only assuming what Yahweh is capable of without proof. In a book that tries to show the best of Yahweh, he created the universe in 6 days....i guess even Yahweh is bound by time. Not surprised.

2. Are you kidding me? How are you not getting this? God created the world in 6 days.

At the end of each creation day, the author say , ".and there was evening and there was morning...."

This doesn't tell you that God didnt work in the evening? How are you not getting this? Why am i still debating over something this obvious?

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Did not is not the same as can not. Don't get it twisted.

What is your proof?

Dtruthspeaker:


Yes! Go to the mortuary, hospitals, graveyards, funeral homes, you will See them, smell them, hear them and feel them.

It is then when the words "death has a smell or death filled the air" will have meaning to you.

You lie....why are you even lying, my lord.

Kobojunkie:
1. The writer, who happens to be human, wrote that it took six days. If God wanted to draw the work out for 1000 days, He could have if He wanted to, nothing wrong with that even for an omnipotent being but in this case, He, as claimed by the author, did it in 6 days.

2. He waited till the morning to continue His work?

1. I am disappointed in this answer. The only thing we have to go by is the bible. You have not seen God before...you have not heard him or her before....only the bible gives him or her a persona. You cannot assume anything about Yahweh without referencing the bible

2. "And there was evening and there was morning...." Indicates that Yahweh doesn't work in the evenings....
Probably goes about impregnating virgins that time. What an insult to an omnipotent Being.

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metaphysics just like science is a field of study, the way you also believe in your so called science is also thethe way others believe in other areas of study.

Oh dear lord. You said there was scientific reference. Metaphysics in this case is not a science. Why are you moving the goal post bro?

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Which of the scenarios i gave is a natural anomaly? Every human being has different and distinct personalities and motives. Science is specific, measurable, principled and easily predictable. Individual emotions are not. You can't measure laughter or happiness or joy scientifically. You can't detect betrayal or envy in the laboratory. What contributing factors do you need to have the same level of love ? What is science? Emotions for instance are sure proof that you have a soul, they come primarily from the soul.

I didnt say your examples are anomalies. I am saying you have disregarded the influencers, you assume these things are measured in a vacuum. They are not.

Science isn't necessary specific, who told you that? Science gives the best possible answer to questions asked...that best possible answer isn't always 100 but consistently reproducible. Consistent doesn't mean 100% either.

When things are measured especially human behaviour, we accept the general consensus (through experimentation and research by observation) as the best possible explanation. We cannot account for every single human being on earth...not possible. If a human being smiles while watching a gruesome murder we assume something is wrong...cos the consensus is that, all things being equal, a human being should not be smiling in that case. That's the anomaly I'm talking about

Science doesn't always include a lab and test tubes, there are many tools for testing.
Your post tells me your view on science is very narrow. Let me guess, you don't think psychology is a science right?

There is a reason why a lady wanting to make her lover jealous will engage in certain things....she knows he is very likely to be jealous...if he isnt, she is shocked...

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google silver cord

No scientific reference for the silver cord as fat as i have searched. How about you show me what i should be seeing.

Kobojunkie:
1. Because He could and so He did

2. Because we, perceive time as a unit of measure that binds us


P.S. not here to hold brief for the one you responded to

He is omnipotent....he didnt need six days...thats my point. Also why is he bound by time so much that he had to wait till the mornings to continue his work?

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God not being bound or limited to time simply refers to His eternal existence, not precision. While most humans have around 70years average to accomplish their goals, God doesn't have the limitations. Not that God doesn't use or "respect" time as you're insinuating.

If God acknowledges the day night cycle, then he or she is bound by it. Simple...don't try to twist it any how. If you acknowledge it and work according to it, then you are bound by it. You speak as if time only relates to age. An immortal who cannot work in the day is still bound by time... Doesnt make that person mortal. Obviously, according to the bible, he didnt work at night.

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No, you can't prove or measure emotions in a scientific way or context. Like we saw recently on the FP, there are mothers and daughters willing to share a man. There are 5th wives encouraging and taking care of 7th wives. You can't prove or measure the emotions, neither are they consistently repeatable.
The joy you feel seeing someone now, or watching a film or a soccer goal now is not the same another feels, it's not the same you'll feel next week. What makes you laugh hysterically now may produce disgust another time. These are not science or laboratory things like the usual physical processes that science deal with. One principle or law does not cover all. All the basic frameworks of science as alluded to above fail miserably in these situations. The spirit and the soul are not physical concepts like the body albeit related. It remains an exercise in futility trying to subject them to the lab. They are beyond that class.

You are speaking like a lay man...something i know you are not. All the scenerios you have mentioned have contributing factors. Some thing you have decided to ignore completely. Things are not measured in isolation...that is sociology and psychology, contributing factors are very important. Thats why human behaviour, majority of the time,can be predicted...and any odd behaviour is seen as an anomaly. These things cannot be measured sure, but they can be consistent enough to be proven.


Besides, thats not the point, can the soul be proven?

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And why again should science confirm or measure the unscientific? Remember the palatable discussion we had on your emotions? They are not scientific, there is no scientific unit or measure for love, hate, jealousy, envy or ill feeling.

So? These things you mentioned can be proven. I can prove to you that there is a high possibilty that your better half will not be happy (ie jealousy and anger, misery and pain) if she sees you with another woman in an uncompromising situation. I can prove to you that there is a high possibility that your mom loves you and doesn't want to lose you. Can you prove the soul? They are not the same.

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there is life after death. this body is controlled by a soul and spirit. even science confirms this fact, once that spirit/soul leaves, you die, spirits and souls dont die, they go somewhere. heaven or hell

Which science confirms this? Im intrigued...please dont turn away, this is a break through. Please provide sources...

Felimax:
Your worshipping or not does not make Him greater or smaller, He is who He is, God!
You are limited to time, space and even reason but He is not.
A little while from now you and your thoughts may just be history and He will ever remain Who He Is- God!
Think!

If God is not bound by time then:

1. Why did God create everything in 6days? "...and there was evening and then there was morning..."

2. Why is that we keep saying "God's time is the best"?

Hopefully i can learn from you.