dnawah: that is what good educational system can do.english is thought 4rm secondary one till uni

Taught.

yorubaamerican:

2. We never learn from history because we believe:


d. That just because we lack the capacity for evil, others lack it too.

What a joke.

Am I not doing me? You are the one trying to convince me not the other way round. Like I have stated and will maintain, these "modern" designs cannot be ascribed to a specific tribe. The more traditional ones can be ascribed to a specific tribe but the modern ones cannot. No matter how you twist it.

I’m not running in circles, I already made my points clear. These modern designs are not peculiar to a specific tribe in Nigeria. I have attended a lot of weddings accross Nigeria and these modern designs are what I see people wear, especially those of the ladies. So I dunno, how it is peculiar to only Yoruba. The only reason you have given so far, is that because the ones you posted was tailored by one Yoruba tailor and worn at a Yoruba event, then it is Yoruba.

You are beating round the bush and flogging a dead horse.

I am not saying it is not Nigerian. But I would not ascribe it to a specific tribe and say it is peculiar to them. Unless you are telling me that it is only Yorubas who are designing and wearing these “modern” designs in Nigeria, and West Africa for that matter. It just seems far off from that. That's all.

Ileke-IdI:

Of course they can lay claim to it. They designed it, with multiple cultural factors. Modern Yoruba clothes, fashioned by modern Yoruba women/men.

BTW, why is this such a problem?

Can we say the design by Americans with other cultural factors are not American designed? i.e gladiator shoes.

Not a problem, just having a discussion about fashion. And like I said, I see these modern designs across Nigeria and West Africa. So I don’t see how it is peculiar to one tribe or nation for that matter.

It seems you are not getting my point. Yoruba ”traditional” attires are distinct. Those are easily recognized. But the “modern” ones which are mostly one piece dresses are not. They are mostly European influenced, so “Yoruba” cannot lay claim to those for their distinctiveness. Any African designer with enough exposure can do same with native fabrics, so I don’t see anything Yoruba about them.

Ileke-IdI:

I'd love to do a lil research of periodical changes to help you a bit, but I just got done with 2 this semester, so not really interested. Thing is, Yorubas' fashion change, and they change rapidly. The Yoruba attires I posted where designed by innovative  Yoruba tailors.

To put it lightly, you can say Nigeria's head gear fashion was influenced by the Yoruba designs. Apart from our headgear and some of our clothing styles, Igbo dresses are no wear close to Yorubas. Look at their modernized clothing; short arm lengths, the wrapper is way different from the Yorubas. While Yoruba 's buba and iro colors are uniformed, Igbos' are different.

Yea, maybe it's because you're not fashion buff. I'm definitely a fashionista and I observe closesly.

At the risk of not derailing this thread, I'd have to stop replying you tho. You can make a thread and I'll def be show up

The thing is that you feel Yoruba fashion changes rapidly while others remain stagnant. And no, I do have a bit of fashion sense and these “modern” designs are mostly European influenced.

And also, as you can see, the Igbo women at the beginning of Page 3 and the some of the "Yoruba women with Indian influence" are wearing almost the same thing -- an off-shoulder dress with a headgear.

I really don’t see anything distinct from all these modern attires across West Africa, apart from maybe the type of headgear worn with them and the use of accessories that maybe distinct to some cultures.

I thought every thread is open for discussion and this one is for fashion, and we are talking fashion here. So I dont see how it is being derailed.

I am not confusing Yoruba traditional attires with others. It is only the “modern” ones that are confusing to me. I don’t know how to post pictures, but I have this Canoe Magazine of 2009 which featured two Cameroonian designers from the US, and their “modern” designs are not so far from what I see on this thread. Their names are Maryanne Mokoko and Stephanie Mouapi, so you might want to look them up.

And some of the “modern” Igbo dresses posted here are not so distinct from the Yoruba ones either. They look the same to me. So I dunno, maybe it is because I am not a fashion buff, who knows?

I am not so much of a fashion buff but these "modern" designs are what I see across Nigeria and West African countries. But since you have stated that they are not exclusive to Yoruba, I can understand, and I guess modernization affected the African dress sense in general.

Nobody can argue that the headtie began with the Yorubas

The jury is still out on that one.

What makes these “modern” attires peculiar to a specific tribe? Is it the designer who designed the clothes or the person wearing the clothes? Or maybe it is the fabric used? Because they all look the same to me especially those of the women, apart from maybe the more “traditional” ones and the headgears that are easily identifiable. Just curious though.

That was not what I asked you. I don't care about Jesus who was a Jew, or Mohammed who was an Arab. My question was, before Fulanis got Islamized, who was their Prophet? Who were their Messengers of God/or Allah?

Or are you telling me they had none, and until they found Islam, they were just a bunch of lost souls waiting for a redeemer and roaming the surface of the earth for centuries with no direction and religious creed?

But he was a Jew, and Mohammed was an Arab. So, Mohammed was not Fulani neither was Jesus. So who were the Fulani Prophets or Messengers of Allah/God before they got seduced by Islam or Christianity? As a Nigerian, I would rather follow the teaching of that Fulani Prophet, than to follow the teachings of an Arab called Mohammed.

namfav:

the arabs were the first who rejected islam, you're acting like arabs accepted islam by a strong will, islam was accepted better in east africa than in medina

And the Jews were the first to reject Jesus, and in fact, they orchestrated his death. And we are made to believe he rose on the third day which was another fairy tale, and Christianity was accepted better in West Africa than in Jerusalem.

tpiah!:


from this response, one must assume the question is beyond your capability to answer, hence the insult cop out.

And assumptions are not always right, dumbass. Now, get lost.

namfav:

islam was a unifying factor to fulanis, there is no doubt about that, only through islam that fulanis could unite and be counted do you think we would be were we are now without islam? i can 100% assure you that we would be weaker if we were not muslim, there is a concept in islam which is called ummah, with that it has created a stronger identity with the fulani, most fulani that i have met is through the mosque, we are god fearing people, who follow islam for many centuries, i dare this woman to go to a church or a pagan festival and meet fulanis, she will come back empty handed, but go to a mosque if you want to meet real fulanis, in any case the only way you can find a fulan is non-muslim is the rebels who went against the ideals of their ancestors because they had a crisis with themselves

And that leads us back to my opening post:

And that is why we (Blacks) continue to suffer at the hands of others (Arabs and Jews) who created these false prophets like Mohammed and Jesus, because over the centuries Blacks were too lazy to develop a unifying religious creed.

And yet we continue to wonder why Arabs and Jews see us as the inferior race, and we are quick to cry racism whenever do.

namfav:

islam is our religion, live with it, all fulani nations apart from culture are united by our religion, there is no place you can meet different fulanis at 1 place than a mosque, even if you go back to more than 500 years

So what you are telling me is that Fulanis had no unity until they got Islamized? And what were the Fulanis of 1000 years ago doing, fighting amongst each other?

^ It is either you are dumb or you are playing dumb, for you to post that comment as a rebuttal. But I will just take it that you are dumb because only a dumbass will make such a comment.

namfav:

i knew it would not be long until you insult the integrity of fulani women, leaving islam/a way of life is not a sign of strength or bravery, it's a weakness or you simply took an easy way out,  there are women who are  within islam who have shown bravery in hausa and fulani history, nana asma'u, queen aminatou etc., get that into your head, how can a self procalimed spokeswoman of fulanis say such a thing anywa, i want to see how many god fearing fulani women will be happy with being called cowards, allah ya sawwake

You are a fool. Islam is not indigenous to Fulanis, just like Christianity is not indigenous to them either. So from what I’m getting from your posts, it seems you prefer Fulanis to be Islamized than Christianized. But both religious creeds are foreign and not indigenous to Fulanis and Africans in general.  And that is why we (Blacks) continue to suffer at the hands of others (Arabs and Jews) who created these false prophets like Mohammed and Jesus, because over the centuries Blacks were too lazy to develop a unifying religious creed.

And that was what Lugard observed and he wrote this:

"Through the ages, the African appears to have evolved no organised religious creed, and though some tribes appear to believe in a deity, the religious sense seldom rises above pantheistic animalism and seems more often to take the form of a vague dread of the supernatural. He lacks the power of organisation, and is conspicuously deficient in the management and control alike of men or business. He loves the display of power, but fails to realize its responsibility - he will work hard with a less incentive than most races. He has the courage of the fighting animal, an instinct rather than a moral virtue. In brief, the virtues and defects of his race -type are those of attractive children, whose confidence when it is won is given ungrudgingly as to an older and wiser superior and without envy. Perhaps, the two traits which have impressed me as those most characteristic of the African native are his lack of apprehension and his lack of ability to visualize the future."

So Fulanis hanging on to Islam as their identity are just as lost as those who are Christians. You are all idiots.

As a Nigerian, I'd rather follow the teachings of Shango, Olukun or Amadioha than to follow a stinky prophet like Mohammed, or Jesus who we are told was born of a virgin and idiotic Christians believed the fairy tale.

tpiah!:

^Are you joking?

No. So?

tpiah!:

assuming you're familiar with bini culture [doubtful, no offence], compare the name ekaladerhan to any bini name you know.

do you even see any similarities?

does it sound like any past or present bini name?

In the same vein what Yoruba name sound or share similarities with “Oranmiyan”? Past or present?

tpiah!:

well, the question is why is anyone obliged to give you that information?

Rather the right question should be, what’s there to hide if it they do exist and are readily available?

If you have it, please post, because I’m more interested in Oduduwa/Yorubic history than Osiris/Egyptian history.

Thanks in advance.

^^^^

Wow!! So out of 400 deities that came with the mysterious Oduduwa and were instituted by him, I still can’t find the info without visiting the Oni’s palace, for an Institution of over 900 years that still enjoys daily sacrifices till date?

And out of the few you posted, I don’t even want to go into their origins with you because a lot had nothing to do with Oduduwa and even Yorubas would admit with that. But thanks anyway for the efforts.

@x-factoria

Am I not worth a response?

What about the 400 deities that Oduduwa came with, which I requested for? I have been researching it and can’t find them. Or was that amongst one of the made-up stories Yorubas concocted to make Oduduwa look mysterious till date?

Help me out with my research please, since you are vast in Yoruba history.

Thanks once again, in advance.

The reason why I joined this discussion is to learn more for me to have a better understanding. So making empty statements without any back-up should be avoided.

In fact, record has it that in the 365days in a year, there is only one day in which sacrifices are not made in Ife. Oduduwa instituted this and it is still so till today"

^^^^^

Now, I avoided addressing this comment because I thought it was an empty one. But since you have decided to bring it up again, then it means you must really know what you are talking about and I am now interested to know.

If Oduduwa’s 364days rituals are still practiced today over 900 years after its initial inception, it must have become an institution that is well-defined with specific names, meanings, purposes and practices.

So please can you post the rituals for each day of the year? What they mean and their purposes? It will help me in understanding the mystery of Oduduwa.
Thanks in advance.

Oduduwa's story reminds me of African-Americans who would rather trace their roots to Ethiopia, Israel, or even China, and deny that they are West-Africans. Some even go as far as denying that they are from Africa, when it is clear majority of them are from Nigeria, Ghana, and other parts of West Africa. So just like African-Americans, I guess Yorubas would rather believe Oduduwa was from any where else in the world, than to be from any close-by Nigerian community.

And I not interested in who was perceived as “superior” and who “hated” who, so please save all that debate because it is irrelevant to where Oduduwa came from. I just want to resolve the mystery of Oduduwa. If Oduduwa was the father/or grandfather of Oronmiyan, it means all this history happened not too long ago. So why is it still so mysterious with all the information and technology available to mankind today?

Next thing I’m sure Yorubas would come-up with, is that Oduduwa's father was one of the Olmecs. I can’t wait for what Yorubas would come up with next. The world is watching.

What we know is that Oramiyan the son/or grandson of the so-called “mysterious” Oduduwa, who was also the connection between the Binis and Yorubas was well-documented by the Binis and Yorubas. Moremi also had some sort of connection with the Igbos during the time of the same Oduduwa as told in the Moremi story.

Now, the Binis had a well-documented Prince who was banished from the Land of Igodo ruled by the Ogisos. And that same Prince became a leader at the land he went into and ruled the people he met there. The Binis did not make up the Ogisos who ruled the Land of Igodo to coincide with whatever was happening with the Yorubas. The Ogisos were well-known leaders before the Obas even to the Urhobos.

So from what I have read and heard so far, there is no mystery surrounding Oduduwa. The only mystery is that the Yorubas cannot account for how and when he appeared in Ife, so they built stories around him to make him look mysterious. So until the Yorubas can prove without doubt of where Oduduwa came from, their stories (all of them) will remain very thin on substance…and only for the illiterates. 

It is therefore possible that he had taken time to study Yoruba history,

Ironically, that was how the Yorubas got the Nimrod theory of Arabia, by studying the already written works of the Hausas. But it ended up being a futile attempt at distorting history because the Nimrod theory no longer flies at this age and time. And I guess time has a way of changing everything.

This argument is not about the history of the Yorubas but of the origin of their acclaimed father - Oduduwa.

Actually my opening argument was not about where the Yorubas came from, it was about the origin of Oduduwa.

Now, if according to Samuel Johnson that the Yorubas had no Arabian link, then that leaves out only Oduduwa who was certainly not Yoruba as "written" history has also shown us.

So where did Oduduwa come from? Was he from Sudan? Or from Egypt? Or even from Sokoto? And have any of the societies recorded in their history whether "written" or otherwise of any of their person whether Prince or Peasant who wandered into a region now known as Ife to rule over the people (Yorubas) he met there? And if they have, what time was it and does it coincide with the period Oduduwa appeared in Ife?

Akenzua of Oduduwa's origin only appeared in history recently.

And it doesn’t make it false because the nature of history is that it is a continuous process. History itself has no beginning or a definite end.

Tell me where it was written in history

"Written'" in history? Does that date back to the time of Oduduwa?

OK – And this was what Samuel Johnson "wrote" in The History of the Yoruba

"The Yoruba are certainly not of the Arabian family, and could not have come from Mecca -- that is to say the Mecca universally known in history, and no such accounts are to be found in the records of Arabian writers or any kings of Mecca; an event of such importance could hardly have passed unnoticed by their historians" (Johnson 1921: 5)

Facts and expressed opinions are different. Get it?

And who is the Judge of that? You?

And how do you differentiate between what is “fact” and what are “expressed opinions?"

And who should I believe? You? Akenzua? or Samuel Johnson?

it was one unanimous account replicated in all colonial records.

And colonial records also recorded that we (Nigerians) were uncivilized - a people incapable of leading themselves, and that was the reason they colonized us. So are you telling me that was also true, if we are to take “colonial records” as the basis for this discussion?